Steve Elkington - Part 1 (The Early Years)

Intro Music 0:07

Straight down the middle. It went straight down the middle. Then it started to book just a few years.

Mike Gonzalez 0:16

Bruce Devlin, I've got a I've got to tell you, um this guest that you're going to introduce for us is likely going to be the youngest guest we have in all of our season one. What do you think?

Bruce Devlin 0:27

I think that's absolutely correct. We have a wonderful guest today. He just happens to be a born Australian who happens to live in uh Houston, Texas. PGA champion, ten victories on the regular tour, and probably the guy that has the most watched golf podcast called Secret Golf, Steve Elkington. Welcome, Steve. Glad to have you with us today.

Steve Elkington 0:53

Mate, I don't know if I should say thanks, Bruce, thanks the Red Devil, thanks, Devils. I mean, we all got a lot of nicknames, but I'm honored to come on and talk to you. Of course, a lot of people don't realize that well, if they've ever read my bio, they'll understand that Bruce Devlin was my hero, and I probably should backstory this right out of the gate by saying I grew up in a number of places in Australia. Most of my golf was played in Wagga Wagger, Australia, but I spent a time in Golburn, and that was where you were from, and your name was on every trophy that I ever wanted to win. So I said, Well, Bruce Devlin's the same shape as me, and I'm gonna he's my guy. And uh you used to have the coolest logo, and I've talked to you about this before. You used to have this little red devil, right, and it was on a set of clubs. What what what maker set what maker clubs were those?

Bruce Devlin 1:44

Like they were uh Slashinger golf clubs uh made there right there in Sydney. Uh yeah, that was uh that was that was a great time. It was a terrific time for me, obviously, to have a company make a set of golf clubs with your name and logo on it. I've still got a couple of sets, but uh I'm sure if I wanted to, I could go on the internet and probably find some more. But yeah, it was a terrific time.

Steve Elkington 2:11

Yeah, I had a I think I had a three-iron Red Devil. I was playing with PGF clubs, but as you know, when we were younger growing up, the great thing about growing up in Australia, as you know, is you don't have to have anyone tell you any good. I mean the scorecard's gonna tell you if any good. So I had a match set. I had a Red Devil three-iron, which I just love that club so much because I could hit it low. Right. And um, you know, I had a sort of a mismatch set of clubs, but mate, I knew how to play, and I, you know, we didn't have a driving range, but that's where it all started for me was in Golburn and then on down to Wagga. Had two courses in Wagga, Wagga Country and Wagga City, and it's still great down in that part of the country and to play golf and learn golf, it's it's fabulous.

Bruce Devlin 2:55

Well, I might also say that were the the uh were we to exchange positions, in other words, you were the first one to come over here and I followed you, I can assure you that I'd have loved to have swing swung the golf club the way you do. So uh uh we're we're I I guess we're fans of one another, but uh you've got a you've always had a wonderful golf swing and and you've had a fabulous career.

Steve Elkington 3:23

Yeah, I've been pretty lucky. Thanks. I um I remember when your son Kel came over to Australia, the story was back in the day that you'd send him over to work with Norman von Neider on how to become a better bunker player. And of course, Norman von Neider doesn't need much introduction on this podcast where people understand golf history. But remember seeing Kel, we would come to Sydney, we'd drive, we'd ride the train to Sydney, and we wanted to hear about this hot shot. Kel Devlin, he was Bruce Devlin's son, came down, and we were ready to take a take a bit of hide off of him, uh, because we didn't want anyone coming over and showing us up. But your son was a great mate of mine, and he was never he was so humble when he came over because mate, as you know, some of the greatest courses in the world are in Australia, and if you're not on your game, mate, it'll just eat you alive. New South Wales Golf Club, the lakes, these Sydney courses were just fabulous. But Kel, of course, went on to be at Nike and sign Tiger Woods and do all those other things, but it all I met him and been friends with all your boys for probably 30 years.

Bruce Devlin 4:28

Well, the he's uh he's now decided that he's gonna own a golf course, and I think he's working harder than he's ever worked in his life right now, trying to make that thing work. So uh I appreciate the nice words about him. Uh he had he been anything other than that, he'd have probably heard from his dad, I can assure you.

Steve Elkington 4:48

What was it like with uh I I know this podcast, it it is what it is, as far as you're gonna interview me, but what was it like with Norman von Nyder? Because I never got to really meet Devon. I was taught by Alex Mercer, who was probably in your age group, and Alex was a fabulous player and never was never traveled much like you guys did, but what was it like? Because Jackie Burke was great friends with Norman von Nyder, and they would play 36 holes of practice at Augusta because uh Mr. Burke would just like to be around this guy that was a little guy that wanted to fight. If he didn't play golf, he'd fight. And uh that's correct. What what was von Nyder like? And why was he so good out of the bunker?

Bruce Devlin 5:29

Uh I d uh well he had a technique that uh that he taught a lot of players, Gary Player and Bruce Devlin, Bruce Crampton, David Graham. Uh, you know, he was uh one of the things he that he used to do is you remember the third hole at the lakes, the path three, that's cutting to the side of the hill. You know how deep that bunker is on the right hand side. Well, he'd take you down into that bunker, okay, you want a lesson? You stay in this bunker until you hole it. Now that's that's a particularly difficult bunker shot to start with, and then he may it didn't matter how many bags of balls it took you to hole it, you had to go in there and learn his technique and and uh and and hole that bunker shot. But uh I do have to tell you one story I think is great, you'll get great appreciation out of this when I turned pro. Slesengers said uh you have to make a trip with Norman von Neiden up the east coast of New South Wales, go across the mountain, come down the Tablelands, and uh you'll be driven in a car by the name of uh by a gentleman by the name of Johnny Barris. I don't know if you remember his name or not. I do know that name, yeah. Yeah, so uh we go up the east coast and we flip over and we go to Tyree and we play a nine-hole exhibition together, and then we get in the bunker at the ninth hole, and Norman gets in the bunker with me, and we've got a bag of balls here, and he dumps out six or eight balls, and he goes through the same, you know, you gotta do this, and you gotta have the right club, and you put the bounce here, and you show the you know, angles away from the hole and face the club at, you know, a little bit left the hole, and you do this and you do that, and he takes a swing, and out it comes, and it went straight in the hole. First shot. So first shot. So he walks out of the bunker and he said, Now Bruce will show you how to do it. You're not gonna believe it. One shot him up in the hole, right behind him.

Steve Elkington 7:27

So but well, he taught you, see, so he I was taught by Alex Mercer, who is a terrific swinger of the club as well. He taught me my whole career and still talk with Alex regularly, but um he also, you know, abided by Von Neider's rules in the bunker, and he would actually challenge me. He would say, I'll let you pick which hand I'm gonna let you I'm gonna beat you with. I'll if you can say I'll just do it left-handed or I'll just do it right-handed. But it took me ages to learn how to play the bunkers correctly the way you boys did. And of course they played with 55 degrees, so you played it slightly different action than you do now. Much more difficult then.

Bruce Devlin 8:04

Yeah.

Steve Elkington 8:11

But they were heavy. They were heavier than they were now, which gave you a slight advantage back then, Bruce. I think wedges were much heavier. The sand iron particular was way heavier, which gave you the thump more thump. Absolutely. And you had a bigger bounce. A bigger bounce, yeah. Yeah.

Bruce Devlin 8:28

Now it uh if you were to swing weight uh those sand wedges back in those days, they'd probably go into the E range. You know, E1, two, three, something like that. So they were, as you said, very, very heavy. Yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 8:41

Well, Steve, as you can appreciate, uh we talked to David Graham last week, of course, Norman von Nada came up. Uh Alex Mercer's name came up, uh, as you would expect. Um let's go back to when you first learned the game. Uh, what's your f earliest recollections of of picking up clubs and learning how to play this game?

Steve Elkington 8:59

I'll never forget it. I was in Narabri at the time, and my brother was a bit of a golfer, and my mom and dad, of course, played golf, and they invited me to come out to Narabri Golf Club and play golf. And I was in a clinic, and to this day, I don't know if any other pros did what those two pros did. Paul St. Vincent and Johnny Whiteman. Paul St. Vincent was the pro, Johnny Whiteman was the assistant, and they they were so impactful, they would come around the neighborhood and they'd pick us up in this uh this uh station wagon, they had eight-track playing in there with uh Neil Diamond, and they'd pick up about four or five of us young fellas and take us to the golf to practice. And I, you know, I've often told this story that you don't think of pros coming around the neighborhood now, picking up all the junior golfers and making it cool to be a golfer. And um that was where I learned. I learned I've learned a lot of my golf uh from watching other players. I could watch Bruce swing the club and I can probably get a bit of a feel for how he hits the ball. Or um, and I just sort of copied it. I was a great copier of how to grip. Of course, Alex Mercer gave me the basics, but I was I could really copy something that I my eye took a liking to.

Bruce Devlin 10:15

You also like to uh uh interpret other other golfers that uh I think that's why that was that was one of your great uh attributes was you could watch Steve swing a golf club like Arnold Palmer, for instance, or really Gary play anyone. He he was uh he he he watched how players uh swung the club very intensely.

Steve Elkington 10:39

Talking about David Graham, um I win this bet all the time um up to this day. I always and I give him a bit of help. Uh I don't know if this came up in your podcast with him, but who was a pro that won the US Open in the eighties that turned pro left-handed and won the open the United States Open in the 80s right-handed. And of course nobody has any idea at all, but David Graham turned pro left-handed.

Bruce Devlin 11:05

That's right.

Steve Elkington 11:06

Did you remember that?

Bruce Devlin 11:07

Yeah, I did. Yeah. Did you ever see him play left-handed? No, I never saw him play left-handed. I I didn't meet him until he was about 17 years old. And and uh uh Alex Mercer was the one that brought him to my home when when I was living in Canberra. And uh I I had just got home from a fishing trip, and here's here's David and Alex there. And uh, you know, he was a oh I don't know, he was a strange little boy at that stage of his life. You know, he hadn't had a wonderful home life, and Mercer was like a daddy to him. And uh everything was going good until he raided my club closet. And I I don't know how many clubs he got away with. He always says he didn't take any, but uh he has a tendency to lie a little bit when it comes to golf clubs.

Steve Elkington 11:51

So he always had the best clubs. You to you two guys always had the best set of irons. They they were the like jewelry. I used to go over and look in the bag, and it's it was like looking at jewelry, fine jewelry.

Bruce Devlin 12:03

Well, uh I don't know if you you probably do know it, but when David and I used to travel together, this is many, many years later, uh, you know, we were always trying different shares and stuff like that, and we'd we'd get adjoining rooms in a motel, and we decided to change the sharves in a set of irons that night. So we'd use the door as the uh as the vice, you know, stick the vice. Yeah, stick the door, stick the clubhead in the in the door jam and then heat up the hazel and pull the shaft out and then put another new one. So uh he he's always been a tinkerer. As a matter of fact, uh he's still he has a little place right now in Preston Trails where where he changes golf clubs for some of the members, or he piddles with this club, or you know, tries out this driver, so he's still doing the same thing he did when he was 17.

Steve Elkington 12:55

Yeah, I mean I know myself when I go to the club I always take this sand iron or a new sand iron and trying to work on a particular shot. It's just the nature of what we do. We're trying to always find the right club for the right situation.

Mike Gonzalez 13:09

Steve, take us through the development of your game at an early age. You you talk about picking it up uh uh but between the time you started learning and the time you made the decision to come to the States to college, which by the way was probably unprecedented at the time for a young Australian golfer, uh talk us through the development of your game and where you got to a point you said, hey, maybe I'm gonna try this for a living.

Steve Elkington 13:33

Trying it for a living came way later, but I was a good player. I won everything in Australia, Australian schoolboys, Australia junior, and I would, you know, I was, you know, I won a lot of the junior events, I was a good player. And um I my big break came in 1980 when I won that Doug Sanders Junior World event that was held here in Houston, and the coach here at University of Houston, Dave Williams, he saw me play. And from then on, he about every weekend he would call me in Wagga and tell me that I was gonna be coming to the University of Houston and playing golf there. And Billy Ray Brown, who's my one of my lifelong friends, was so he used to say, Well, you're gonna come to play at University of Houston with Billy Ray Brown, and he's from Sugarland, Texas. And I used to think, What have I what am I getting myself in for? But I finished up coming to the University of Houston. I was probably the first college golfer to come from Australia. It was an easy decision because I I'd done everything that I needed to do in Australia, uh won all the tournaments, and I what was I gonna do? Go work for my dad in the lumber yard or something, so I thought I'd go to college. And um that was amazing. We won three national championships when I was there, and uh Billy Ray and I did, and so that was great. And and then I sort of started thinking, well, hang on a second, I might be able to do this, but I still wasn't like the kids are now. I never I really I didn't know if I wanted to go back to Australia and be in a be sort of a club pro or I was gonna take a gun at uh have a go at it. And that may sound really strange at this point, but I was getting a bit homesick at the time. I'd been away from home for about four years, and I didn't I didn't really know if I was gonna be able to make it over here as far as just hanging in there. Anyway, uh I decided to have a run at it and and uh you know got through the tour of school and off off I off I went.

Mike Gonzalez 15:22

Now you you whizzed through college pretty quickly there, but uh you know, three NCAA titles, pretty good. I think Billy Ray won the individual his freshman year, did he not?

Steve Elkington 15:30

He did, 82. He and I were the two freshmen that came in that year and these other coaches. I mean, when you think about college golf now, Billy Ray, no one recruited Billy Ray, not one other school offered him anything, and not one other school even knew who I was. So here were these two guys walked in the University of Houston, surrounded by all these good players in college, and here's these two freshmen that no one's ever heard of. One of them won the NCAA, and I was winning tournaments every other week in that that season. So we we snuck up on them and just blew them open.

Mike Gonzalez 16:02

And as big a deal as you two were, uh you weren't even the biggest deal on your dorm floor, were you?

Steve Elkington 16:08

Not the biggest by a mile. Uh Akeem Elajuan and Clyde Drexler were there. They were just down the hall, and then of course Carl Lewis, seven-time Olympian, was right there as well. The fastest human in the world was on our floor. So, mate, we had talent all around.

Mike Gonzalez 16:24

It sounds like it. And and uh so you win three times. Uh 85 was the last. That's the last time Houston's won, right?

Steve Elkington 16:31

Yep. Yeah, we uh that was when Coach Williams uh decided to retire. He'd uh he that was his 16th national championship, and that made him the most prolific uh NCA coach of any sport winning tournament. So that was when he retired. And uh my son Sam just got out of University of Houston. He played there four years and uh had a great time there at Houston. So I met my wife in Houston. I tell everybody that everything happened in my life happened great at University of Houston. That's where I got a chance to play golf, that's where I met my wife, I met all my friends, you know, got to come out of there and go to the tour. So University of Houston was the center of the circle for me.

Bruce Devlin 17:09

Is Sam Sam uh any ideas about Turner Pro?

Steve Elkington 17:13

No, he no, I had a daughter too, you're right, Michael. Yeah, she was born in '95. Um she didn't go to University of Houston, though, that's why I never mentioned Annie, but she went to Southwestern here in Texas. She's an art art major. No, Sam, I don't think Sam um Sam's got tons of talent and all that, but he He doesn't um Well, I don't want to say anything because this is on a I don't think he wants it like we wanted it. You know what I mean? He never wanted to stay over that extra two hours and hit balls when the sun had already gone down. And I'm not saying he's not a hard worker because he's a very hard worker, he just didn't have the the super drive, the overdrive that we had. Uh like we had to get it done. And that was there was no two ways about it, right? Yeah.

Bruce Devlin 17:56

Or or or find another job. Yeah. That was about it.

Mike Gonzalez 18:01

Like like being a master plumber, Bruce.

Bruce Devlin 18:03

Yeah, well, yeah. See, I I tried that before. Uh before. And you know, go back to Norman von Neider just for one second. I did leave one thing out, which I think was had a great si had was a great significant thing to happen to me during my life. That when I turned down my uh first invitation to the Masters in 1961, uh I thought I'd never get another invitation to go back. And uh I I happened to win a uh a golf tournament while I was on probation in Australia, and then uh I got an invitation back in 62 when Norman was there with me in 62 and introduced me to Ben Hogan the first day I arrived there. And you can appreciate this elk. Uh, you know, being in Australia and reading all about these great guys, and you walk into the the locker room and uh Norman says to Hogan, he said, you know, Ben, would you would you play around with this with this young guy I got from Australia? And Hogan said, Sure, I'd love to. Well, I don't have to tell you, that was a very difficult day for me. You know, I was so damn nervous when I walked on the T, I didn't know what to do or say. But uh, you know, I had seven great years of playing every practice round with him when he and I were at the same tournament. So it was uh one of the thrills of my life to have got to know him so well. And uh he he, like most of the golfers, uh was he was a he was a great guy and uh very heartfelt. He he liked uh he liked everybody, I think, except the press, because they continued to ask him the same questions year after year after year.

Steve Elkington 19:39

So uh that was I know you were close with Hogan, and I know Mr. Burke was close to Hogan too, and and they speak so strongly. In fact, he took me up to Shady Oaks to meet Hogan. Uh Mr. Burke had some business with him, so he said, Do you want to go to Shady Oaks one time? Uh he asked me, and I said, Oh, of course. He goes, I've got to do some business with Hogan. And I had just blown a tournament in San Diego. I was leading it, I was a young player, maybe second year, which I want to hear about that Billabong story in a minute, but it was at it was at Tory Pines, and I was uh I shot about a 78, I think, the last day, and a guy named Greg Twiggs won the tournament, real long hitter. I think it was the only tournament he ever won. But the next day I was up in the car driving up to Shady Oaks and to meet, well, to just go with Mr. Burke, and then I met Hogan, and he said he he was in the room with Mr. Burke, and he turned his attention to me, and he said, I watched you on TV yesterday, and he said, I've got a couple of things that I want you to do. And I, you know, of course I was all ears. He said, He said, the first thing is I skipped a bunch of balls over the green at San Diego, hit them too aggressive, and knocked him over the back. And you know the rest of that story once you're over the back at Tory Pines, chip him back down the hill. He said, You don't have to, you don't have to hit the ball over the green every hole. He said, You can hit it 30 feet under the hole and let the putter be the star. That was the first thing he told me. He said the second thing, he said, you have a great swing, but you have these massive amount of practice swings. You're swinging too many. He said, No man's fit enough to play 54 holes, like you're taking these two full blast practice swings before you make your real swing. So I've never made another practice swing like that since then. And the third one, he said, You've got the best swing out there. He said, You just go on and play your golf and you'll be fine. And then he turned his attention, he turned his attention back to Mr. Burke, and that was it. I I basically left the room, but I never forgot all three, and and I I they're uh right there fresh in my mind today.

Mike Gonzalez 21:37

You had to take some confidence out of that third statement he made, I would guess, huh?

Steve Elkington 21:42

Yeah, I mean, yep, um I certainly did. Uh course Bruce knows this better than anyone. Yeah, people tell you you got a good swing, and I've always been told I've got a good swing, and so what's a good swing, you know? Is it the uh the proper positions or is it that it works, or is it really And I think a lot of people looked at my swing because I I did have, I suppose, good positions, and the ball went where it looked like it was going to go, and I had a good rhythm. I thought Payne Stewart was in a similar boat, uh, rhythm-wise. So but Bruce, to me, mate, it always was, yeah, but it doesn't work, or yeah, it's working okay at the moment. So you can have a great swing, but it's gotta work.

Bruce Devlin 22:24

Yeah, that's true. Well, you're you you've made it work work really well, and I'm sure um I'm sure you feel the same way as I do. When when when when good players get a little bit off, uh the best thing they can do is go back to the the uh the basic fundamentals that the guy like Alec Mercer taught you, you know. Uh and that's that's about the only way you get out of little slumps that you might have.

Steve Elkington 22:49

Yeah, my my tendencies were always the same. I had a bit of slide in my knees. I know you did, and that was our era. Weiskop did. These are guys that I like to look at, Bruce Swing, Tom Weisskopf, a lot of a lot of leg action, which I really liked. Uh a lot different than the spinning players now. I suppose Tomo, Peter Thompson, was one of a spin player for a guy back in the day. But Tiger Woods, of course, really spins, but I'd either spin too much. I mean, sorry, I would either slide too much, and that made the bottom of my swing arc not quite precise, and I was always and I'd put the ball further forward, you know, and that and that was where I got in trouble.

Bruce Devlin 23:28

But yeah.

Steve Elkington 23:28

It would all revolve around what was going on down below for me. What about you?

Bruce Devlin 23:34

Yeah, I I was uh I was always um my best parts of my game, I think, were driving and putting. Uh and I got out of I got into all sorts of trouble by moving the ball forward. There's no doubt about it. That was my that was my biggest fault. And uh uh I think the two major things in a golf swing is the combination of be b between alignment and ball position, because they have to work together, they can't be a separate entity. So, you know, we raiming and where it is in relation to your feet is I think is the most important part. Obviously, you've got to, you know, you've got to make a turn and hit the ball. But if you're in the if if your alignment and ball position is slightly off, it won't go where you think it's gonna go.

Steve Elkington 24:22

Oh, that's right. I I have a tennis, anyone that's seen me play knows I aim a little bit left. So it makes sense that the ball has to be a little bit deeper for me, so that'll so I'll hit it on the bottom of the swing arc and push it out towards a target, but I didn't want to do that all the time. I'd move it forward and forward, and and that's what got me into trouble as well. But you know.

Mike Gonzalez 24:44

So Steve, when you finished school, uh you mentioned you're getting a little homesick. Did you go home for a while before coming back to to try the uh uh tour qualifying school?

Steve Elkington 24:53

Not for long. I went over and uh I didn't have much time to do all that. I actually missed the tour school the first season I tried right out of the gate and went over to Europe and played. Thought that was probably the next best option for me, and I finished up getting paired with Savvy Balasteris right out of the gate. It was the first time I ever saw him. It was in Monte Carlo, I was in the last group the last day, and I was like, what am I doing? Here's this absolute genius freak player. I saw him do a clinic earlier in the week where he was making the balls skip twice out of the bunker and stop, and then he'd hit one that skipped once out of the bunker, and then he was hitting one iron over a tree that I could hardly hit a wedge over a tree, and I'm like, and now I paired with him in the final round of this tournament, and neither one of us won it, but we were up there pretty good. But um it was amazing to see him play uh in his full flight, Bruce. You I'm sure you've had a few run-ins with Savvy and seen him when he first came along.

Bruce Devlin 25:51

Interestingly, I I never got to play with him a lot. Uh I watched him obviously a lot. He like you said, he was a genius. Uh some of some of the things that he could do with a golf ball were quite remarkable, but uh I think I think I only got to play two rounds of golf with him in competition. So I, you know, it was at the end of my reign and it was basically at the start of his. We were probably, I don't know, 25, maybe 25 years apart, something like that.

Steve Elkington 26:20

Yeah. So I got through that, you know, I got I I sort of got enough money on that European tour to come over here, knowing that I had that in my back pocket, and that's what sort of gave me a bit more confidence here, and then I got through uh Mike the next Michael the next year to go onto the tour. I actually got I got my tour card, I think, in on my birthday, 1986, at the uh Bob Hope course out at um PGA West on my birthday to start the 87 tour. That was a pretty good birthday present.

Mike Gonzalez 26:48

Oh yeah, and was was Bob Hope still around then?

Steve Elkington 26:51

Oh yeah. Yeah, that was him and Tip O'Neill and Gerald Ford would play each year, and the past champion got the honor to play with them, and they'd take seven hours to play, they'd go in for lunch and come back. It was a it was like a five-shot penalty when they play with that group.

Mike Gonzalez 27:07

That sounds familiar, Bruce.

Bruce Devlin 27:09

Yeah, that sounds familiar. Of course, uh I I had an opportunity on several occasions to go to uh Vale, Colorado, where President Ford had his pro-am. I played in that one a time or two. Yeah, it was it was always uh a fun pro-am to play in. Uh again, it was uh you know reasonably slow to play, but uh all the entertainment that he had there was was great. And uh you mentioned you mentioned something that doesn't happen today, and that is uh in those days uh President Ford and Tip O'Neill invited uh my wife Gloria and I to have dinner one night. Now here's the leader of the House and the President, but opposite parties sitting down and actually discussing uh situations that might affect the people in this country. And unfortunately, uh, and I don't mean to bring politics into it, but I did. Uh it's a shame it's not the same way today.

Steve Elkington 28:11

They're not doing that today, is correct. Um, you know, there was a fair amount of celebrity um tournaments. Uh Andy Williams, I got to play in that one. By the way, give me the Billabong story because I I haven't really got it from the horse's mouth. The 18th hole, of course, at Tory Pines is the famous hole. That's where Tiger beat Rocco, or Tiger made that famous part to get into a playoff of Rocco. But that's that's Devlin's Billabong in front there. How'd you how'd you earn that name of that?

Bruce Devlin 28:40

I uh I was uh quite a few shots behind after three rounds. Uh Tom Watson was leading the golf tournament, ended up winning the golf tournament. But uh that was probably for 17 holes, some of the finest golf that I ever played. I came to the last hole eight under for the day, and I drove the ball just a foot into the first first cut of rough, and the ball was sitting perfect. I mean, it was like sitting on a T, and it was, I don't know, in those days it was probably, you know, 220 to the front edge of the green, two twenty-eight to the hole, and I hit a absolutely perfect four wood right at the flag, and it came down hit right on the front of the right above the water on the front of the green, and I thought, oh man, I got a chance to make a three, and I'd made a couple of steps forward and the ball rolled back into the water. So that was a disappointment. I got up there and I thought, you know, I can I can get it out of here. So I took a whack at it and it hit up on top of the bank and moved about 12 inches to the right. So I went in there again, hit it up, hit the bank, come down. Well, cut a long story short. I got it out. I got it out on my uh seventh try. Cost you a bit of cash. Yeah. Cost you a bit of cash, I imagine. Oh yeah. And uh I uh I think I made a uh I made about a 25-footer for a 10. So it was rather a disastrous finish to the day.

Steve Elkington 30:09

See, I'm glad I asked that story because I never actually knew that you hit that forward. I I didn't know it was that that that's perfect. Now I know.

Bruce Devlin 30:19

And that was the the very first year that they had the uh the lake in front of the 18th hole, and and I assume that's why they decided to call it Devlin's Billabong. And you still shot under three under for the day with a 10. Yeah, that's right. So it was uh it it was uh it was a great opportunity, but uh you know, one of the stories uh uh Michael probably asked you some point in the in the podcast today, you know, if you had if you could do overdo if you could do one shot over again, which one would it be? That that might be that might be the one that I'd pick.

Steve Elkington 30:55

Yeah, I read that question uh on you know on just I read that sh question and I looked at it and I thought, where would I change something? Well, I was in a playoff at the British Open. I shot a 65 the last day in the 02 Muirfield event, finished up getting in a four-way playoff that the U Rolling Ancient split it up into two groups of two, and which was disappointing because if you ever had a playoff, you'd be a foursome. And Ernie Ells, of course, finished up winning it. I had a putt in regulation of about six feet. I hit a beautiful two-iron shot in there that was six feet from the hole, and that would have put me up in the ahead in the clubhouse, and that was one there that I I thought about it when you asked me that question, and then I thought, well, I pulled my caddy over and I I would put at things, I would put at a plug mark, or I would put at something quite close to my ball. I I realized that when I went to Dave Pell's one time to see about my putting, that I I wasn't a very good aimer. I could he put me he put a mouse hole in the corner, had a laser on my putter, and he measured me from three feet, eight feet, ten feet, fifty feet, and after about measuring for about an hour or two, he said, Well, you're quite terrible from every distance. He said, You're left from three feet, right from ten feet, and all this. So I sat and had lunch for a little bit, and uh I said, measure this. So I walked up to the mouse hole all the way up to about two inches or three inches from it. I said, Turn on the laser now and do it ten times in a row, see how I do. And he said, Well, you're perfect. You're per after ten efforts, he said, You're perfect from two inches. I said, Right, that's all I need, that's all the information I need to go. So all I did from then on was pick something two inches in front of my ball because I knew I was excellent at at that. And back to that British Open, I there was a white speck of sand on my line, and I I even called my caddy over and I said, Look, I'm I'm not am I imagining this, or is it is that white speck the line? And he said, Elk, that's it, mate. He said, That is the spot. So off she went and it broke broke across the face of the hole at the end. But that would have been nice, Bruce. But I can't really say I'd have it again because I I hit it right where I thought it was gonna be, and I read it that way, and that was that. But there's a million shots I'd like to have over, of course. Um when you think of shots you'd like to have over, what it's the cost that you paid for it for it missing, right? Right, yeah, yeah. And uh so I fortunately, you know, I had a few good things happen to me and not too many bad things, so I'm gonna just leave it at that.

Mike Gonzalez 33:39

Yeah, well let's let's recap a little bit uh uh some of the some of the great things you accomplished on the tour. First of all, the the the highlight, I suppose one major, the 1995 PGA championship at Riviera, but you know, right up there, two players' championships. We'll talk about those in 1991 and 1997. Um 50 plus weeks in the top 10 world rankings from 95 to 98, with your highest ranking being third in 1997. Uh 1995, exceptionally good year as we talk about your major record that year across particularly three majors with with the top ten finishes, but the Varden Trophy winner for low scoring average on the tour in 95. Uh good financial year, I suppose, would come with that. Maybe not relative to today, but uh I'm sure it was a uh a rewarding year. Uh so those are just some of the highlights. What I I think we'd like to do first is just have you maybe tick through some of your uh most favorite wins of your uh of your uh PGA victories. Um I'll start off with the probably the first one, I think, which was at Greensboro, correct?

Steve Elkington 34:46

Yeah, Greensboro was uh crazy because I actually won that tournament and there was not one shot on TV. When I went onto the back nine on Sunday, I was seven shots behind. It was a real windy course. You remember that Fairway Oaks course down in Greensboro? Real hard course, a lot of deep rough. And I think I shot I think I was I think I was three or four under coming to the 17th hole. And I hit a long iron up the hill on this path three, and I made about a 30-footer. So now I'm like five under for this for this back nine, but now I'm sort of six under for the tournament. The lead, they were just coming to the back nine, they were about eight under, but it was windy, it was really windy and a bit chilly. And I hit it in the right rough on eighteen, I hit this bouncy seven-nine, I landed it 100 yards short of the green, chipped it to make it run, keep it low, ran all the way back to the pin to this far from the hole. And they had me tapping it in. They thought, well, we'll get Elkington tapping this in for to go to seven under because the lead's at like eight or nine. And then they all collapsed, and I finished up winning the tournament by two strokes. So I have this record of uh being on TV for one putt to win it to win a tour of it. About a six-inch event.

Mike Gonzalez 36:04

Yeah.

Bruce Devlin 36:04

It's pretty funny.

Mike Gonzalez 36:06

Yeah. Bruce, did you ever play in that event?

Bruce Devlin 36:08

I did, yeah. Uh uh most of the times that I played there, we played at uh Sedgefield. Sedgefield. Yeah. It's back there now. They've gone back there. Yeah, they've gone back there now, yeah. That's where uh that's where Sam Sneed won, I think, five or seven times. Something more eight or something. Won eight times. Eight times. Goodness me.

Mike Gonzalez 36:30

That's including at age 53, which maybe at the time was the oldest PGA winner. I don't know if that's still the record or not, but uh uh he had quite a time. There, there was a lot of history there. Uh Charlie Sifford uh that was the first, I think, PGA sponsored event that an African American played in. Charlie Sifford was the leader early, I think, maybe finished uh fourth. Um Yeah, there's a there's a lot of good history at that tournament. Yeah. Let's uh uh what about the Infinity uh Tournament Champions, 1992s? That that's that's the one at Kapalua, correct?

Steve Elkington 37:04

But back then they played it at La Costa, and we we used to play, they which I'd love to see them do it again. They put the senior the senior tour players were there, they were playing their tournament champions, and we were playing our tournament of champions on the same course. So we'd see all these guys, it was fabulous. You know, first time we'd seen Arnold Palmer up close or Bruce Davlin or Crampton or any of these guys that were lucky enough to win the year before. Uh, you know, I remember Mr. X and uh Miller Barber and all these guys, and thinking, what a swing that guy's got, but he hit it so solid. And um I think I beat Bruce uh sorry, yeah, I beat Bruce Litsky in the playoff in '92, I think, or Brad Faxen, one of the other, because I won it in '95.

Mike Gonzalez 37:51

Brad Faxen.

Steve Elkington 37:52

Yeah, I won it in '95, and I as well, and I think that was Litsky where I beat in the playoff. But you know, um I remember uh that tournament in particular at Tournament of Champions with the senior tour of players. Of all the memories I have, I still I still think fondly back of seeing seeing those guys in competition, the the older players. Of course, the the tour Bruce has changed a lot when I came on the tour. All the best players were the older players, you know. Of course, Tom Watson was still there and Trevino was out there a little bit, Nicholas was still hanging around a little bit, Wyscoff. And then when Tiger came along, he was the youngest guy and he became the best player. So everybody, instead of looking up to the olders as the top players, we were looking down to Tiger, which was fine. It just changed all the dynamic of everything. Uh, it just seemed like it flipped the hierarchy of the tour.

Bruce Devlin 38:42

Yeah, I th I think it I think it all uh harkens back to the fact that players like yourself who who had a great college career, you were you were maybe a little hesitant to come out there and and think that you were going to beat the older guys. Today it's a totally different story. The kids go through college, uh, they bounce out there, they're they're ready to kick your butt. Uh so it's true. I I mean it's a it's an attitude, I think, that's changed, but there are many, many more players that actually go out there now that have a very, very solid game.

Steve Elkington 39:16

That's true. It's very true. You look at the some of these guys like Shoffley and you know uh Morikawa and some of these really good swingers, and they just play really, really good golf, and they're not affected by much at all. But you know, when I've I knew I couldn't beat Tom Watson when I saw him play. I knew I couldn't beat about 30 guys, so there wasn't any, you know, uh maybe I was nervous or whatever, but I definitely hadn't seen anyone hit the ball better, you know, that good either. A bunch of those guys.

Mike Gonzalez 39:46

You won it, you won in uh 1994 the Buick Southern Open. What struck me with that one is is uh looking at the name of the guy you beat, you guys probably know the name, I'd never heard of it. Steve Rintool, an Aussie.

Steve Elkington 39:58

He's a really good friend of mine. He grew up in a little town over from Wagga named Mollymook. You know where that is, Devils. Yeah, that's where I had my first holding one. Is that right? Yeah. On the on the upper or down on the beach course?

Bruce Devlin 40:10

Down on the beach course, yeah. Like about the sixth hole or something.

Steve Elkington 40:13

I I think I held a seven-in, the first holding one I ever had. What a great course that is. And then the pubs down the pubs right on the corner, and you watch the surface. And the s the guys are surfing right off the right off the back deck. It was a magical place, Molly Mook. It was. Oh, it is still. Steve Rentel's coming on 25 years as a rules official now on the PGA tour. And uh that tournament you mentioned there was I was up on it about five or six strokes, and I was sponsored by Buick at the time, and we were sitting out waiting for a big rainstorm on Sunday. Didn't know if we were going to play or not. And Bob Colletta, the CEO of Buick, called me over to his cabin. We had we were staying in these cabins down at Callaway Gardens, and he said, What time would you like to be champion today? And I said, Well, I'd like to be champion anytime. He goes, Well, I'm just getting ready to call it. There's about a there's a 12 or 15 inches of rain coming, so I'm just I'm over here to tell you you've just won it. I'm I'm calling the tournament. So thank you very much. I was walking past the press room and Steve Rintour was on up at the Dais, and he was saying, Well, you know, I played a lot of golf with Elkington, and if I could have put a bit of pressure on him early, you never know what could have happened. I stepped in, I looked up at him, and he goes, Wow, just don't worry about that. Uh now that he's just walked in, I wanted I'd like to retract that statement.

Mike Gonzalez 41:34

Uh but it was out there. It was out there, yeah. It was out there. So uh 1995, uh that we mentioned that earlier about being a really good year for you. Um uh in addition to some good performances in major championships, you won the Mercedes Championship. That was the really the same tournament at Lagosta, second second time you won that, and that's the time you did beat Litzkey in a two-hole playoff.

Steve Elkington 41:57

Yeah. Yeah, 95 was the best year for me totally. That was our daughter was born in April. That was that changed everything for me mentally. It was just such a relief, just that I wasn't thinking about my golf. I was thinking about my daughter. But the Varden Trophy meant a lot to us. I I I know it probably meant a lot to Bruce's era as well. You don't hear much about it anymore. You don't even, you don't even they used to pin it up on the wall in the locker room. They'd put the Varden Trophy scores and who was the lowest. They'd have the best putter on tour, they'd have the best chipper and all that. Stats were sitting up on the on the board, so you could see. I remember seeing one of my mates, Billy Ray Brown, was the the worst putter at one time, and I sat down for breakfast with him. I said, You can't putt better than anyone. I had that sheet in front of me, you know, he's 180th in putting or something. And uh, but the Varden Trophy was a very important award to me personally. It's you know, it's a stroke average for the year, and I played great the whole year that year. I you know, had a chance at the Masters, top five, had a chance at the British Open, top five, and then I won the PGA. So I was right there the whole the whole year. It was great.

Mike Gonzalez 43:06

And what do you what do you chalk that up to? I mean, what are you looking back on it to why do you think 95 was the kind of year it was for you?

Steve Elkington 43:14

You're gonna be surprised by this answer, but I chipped the ball in 95 better than any other year I chipped the ball. And when you chip the ball good, I was already a great iron player. When I if I'm chipping the ball like really good, like Jordan Speith good, there's not a pin I'm not gonna shoot at. So because I knew I could chip it up and get it up and down, I was hitting I had a beautiful little soft flop shot that I had developed somehow, and and uh I say it somehow, and of course I was working on it, but Bruce, does that surprise you that one part of your game can actually it probably doesn't jackpot you into all sorts of things?

Bruce Devlin 43:52

No, I think I think you made a perfect point there. Uh you know, if if you're playing if you're playing conservatively, even if you're leading and playing conservatively. conservative, you're you know, you're not looking at the flag directly. You were saying, well, you know, I'll aim it fifteen feet left. I happen to push it a little bit, great. But when you when you've got your game around the green, that's when uh that's when that's when you should actually be going for the flags, like you said. Then you can, you know, get it up and down out of the three inch rough or if you're on the fringe you can chip it up and save your par. Yeah.

Steve Elkington 44:25

And you hit your wedges close on you on the par fives, you can attack, chip it up, make another birdie, and off you go. Golf seems very simple sometimes when you when you have one part of your game and I and and we talked about this briefly a minute ago there about how do you get your game back when you're off and for me Bruce talked about fundamentals, but Mr. Burke would always make me make three footers because he said, you know, we got to go back to where we know we can putt. And he said no matter if you sp spray it all over the golf course, you know, Burke was all about you know making a three or four footer for power if he had to. So he always made me come back and make a ton of putts, you know.

Bruce Devlin 45:05

Well you'll remember the story about him and uh Hal Sutton, don't you? On the putting green at Champions I'm sure there's a million on but I want to hear it again. Whatever it is, I want to hear it. He he came to he came to Champions and uh Burke said to him uh go out and hit some putts he said I'll be out there in a little bit so he goes out there and he's putting he's putting for about eight feet and Burke sort of snuck out there and watched him putting he missed one to left then he missed one to right. Walked up to him and he said uh bring him back and start again he had four balls so he hits one he uh misses it left and hits the next one and misses it right then he holds it and he leaves it short and Burke walked up to him and he slapped him right on the side of the face and he said what the hell did you do that for? He said does that hurt? And Sutton said yeah sure it hurts. He said well missing those putts like that oughta hurt too so just remember what I did. In other words learn how to make it son instead of standing there left right left right doing army putts wanted to see a little pain when you missed it.

Steve Elkington 46:17

Right yeah I I knew that story Phil Mickelson came to see Mr. Burke uh he hadn't won a major yet and he showed up at Champions I was there and Mr. Burke same thing sent him out there and Mr. Burke said look I don't know why you're here or whatever but I'm gonna tell you what I tell everyone he said I need you you got to make a hundred in a row around you know around the wheel you know around this screen and Phil Mickelson said well I can do that right now I've flown all the way down here I can do that already and Mr. Burke says well how much you want to bet and Mickelson said I'll bet you the best steak dinner in town so he misses on the fifth one and Mr. Burke gets right up in his face and he says how about we try it again for 25,000 this next time so I mean not many people can push back Phil Mickelson you know with betting but now he's got him he's got him pushed back and he missed it on the third time on the next go-around. Well then we saw out on tour where Phil was doing that around the horn drill and they thought it was all him and it all started with uh with Jackie Burke and uh he finally did you know Phil Mickelson did go on to do what we all thought he would do was win a ton of majors but it all started with the confidence of of the ring around the circle there.

Bruce Devlin 47:30

So I haven't seen him in a in a few years as he's is he he's getting along there isn't he age wise I went down to Houston for his 93rd birthday had a great time with him we we sat on the big chairs in front of the fireplace uh when they were playing the golf tournament there and uh uh he he's still uh he was a still scrappy Jack Burke that he was I'm sure back in the in the late 60s and 70s.

Steve Elkington 47:55

Oh yeah he's 98 now and he's slowing down pretty good but he uh he's still there every day and uh I just saw him this morning I was over there and I saw him and our clubhouse uh got all water damage so we've got no clubhouse at champions from this yeah so he's all you know he we're trying to get things going there so he's he's working just like always and you've had a long and special relationship with him haven't you I have he's like a surrogate father to me you know being that I've been away from my f family for so long but you know I used to think about Jack Burke that you know I don't think I could have done what I was able to do on the tour because I would come back from the tour all beat up. We always everybody gets beat up on the tour and and he would untangle that somehow and he would get me thinking back on track real quick like what I'm not supposed to be he'd he'd have a simple word that say you gotta think about what you're supposed to be doing and not what you're not supposed to be doing and and he was he was always able to get you focused back on you know looking back it's it's getting you away from all the self-doubt that you have Bruce you have a lot when you play the tour.

Bruce Devlin 49:11

He was always positive I I I never heard him say something that that wasn't positive.

Steve Elkington 49:18

Yeah and you know I've been around him for 40 years now and and I know everything you know and he's like the you know the matriarch of American golf now he's the oldest masters champion he has a lot of a lot of clout uh with a lot of people and he runs nice events for amateurs he thinks very strongly about amateur golf and loves you know loves to see good players keeps our membership fee real low so he can attract good players and he's all about he's all about golf.

Bruce Devlin 49:50

Well and I I had uh I'll tell you one little story about him. Bob Charles and I had uh had won the uh CBS golf classic tournament where you you know we were playing better balls and we decided to spend a week in Houston and get a chance to play with both Jackie Burke and Demarrit when DeMarit was still around and again you know as a as a young even even though we'd had some success on the tour it was it was quite a week to uh teared up every day I think we played five days out of the seven days that we were there we played with Burke and uh de Marit and that was uh it was just a fabulous week.

Steve Elkington 50:33

I got to know him you know of course I built my house next to Jackie Burke my first little house when I first got out of college where he was single and I was single we we were together all the time and then he married and then I got married and we moved over the other side of the champions but um de Merritt I was there one year in 1983 before he before he's he wasn't with us anymore but he came out to watch us one day and I'd never really met Demerit and it was the rodeo was in town in Houston and and this guy had he had these custom jeans on and on the back of the custom jeans he had this full quill ostrich yoke that was somehow made into these pants and then on the back of the shirt he had the same deal and then and then the bandana on his hat had the same deal and I just looked at it and I thought this is the greatest thing I've ever seen in my whole life and he came out and watched this play and I just I couldn't I was just I couldn't believe how cool Demeritt was I mean can you imagine Demeritt in this day and age now the way he used to dress and sing and hang out and all that well I I would they would he would he make it now or would they just eat him up and they wouldn't let him be him uh they probably eat him up uh when I had I had my legs operated in 1965 at Sharpstown Hospital and uh the second day that I was after the surgery uh two guys walked in my in my uh hospital room one was Burke and the other was de Marritt and uh de Marritt walked up to the to the bed and he handed me a package and it was a mink jock strap so you talk see so you talk about you talk about some of the strange things that Mr Demeritt used to do. Well that was one of the strangest I can assure you demerit was unreal wasn't he and then of course Hogan copied a lot from Demerit you know Demerit used to walk down the fairway and flip the club anti-clockwise in his hand as he walked down the fairway like this and someone asked him I think Hogan may have said it to him I know Hogan wrote about it in his book he said well that's the that's the motion that the left hand's making through impact and I know Hogan wrote about uh some credit that he gave Demerit about when he started to develop his superaction that Hogan had right was uh interesting there was some yeah there was some of that in there hit that little low fade most of the time he had full control of it but it was uh it was a left or right left to right left to right all day long.

Bruce Devlin 53:19

Eliminate one side of the course is what he used to tell us back then.

Mike Gonzalez 53:24

Well the question you posed Steve about how some of these old time characters would have fared today I think we all know the answer uh uh some of them would have done fine but you know the world's changed quite a bit from back then particularly in terms of press and social media and the the 24 hour news cycle it probably would have been difficult for some of those guys to exist in today's technological world I would think probably true I went over to the legends tournament with Mr.

Steve Elkington 53:50

Burke and his partner was Mike Suchak who I know you know very well but I met Tommy Bolt and I was pretty young.

Bruce Devlin 53:57

I wasn't on the tour I was still was with early 80s and um Tommy Bolt was there and I didn't know Bolt but I just knew everything about Bolt how good a swing he had and how good he hit it and all that got out of the car this one morning and he had this yellow pants on and when I tell you they were yellow they were so yellow canary yellow but they were pristine and they were custom and the belt was knitted into it the whole show we used to wear them Bruce you remember him Hamilton tailoring up in Cincinnati Ohio or wherever yeah but he had another pair on a hanger and I said Mr Bolt how come you got another pair of pants he says son he said I might spill something on this at breakfast and he says I'm not going out in the golf course without something perfect looking so he had two pairs and now I just I was again I was just dumbfounded with these guys and of course I did the same thing I know you Bruce I remember seeing you with those Hamilton all those custom pants and and belts and shoes and all that well they uh I I think I think some of the players today though they're uh they're they're doing the same thing you know you look at a guy like Ricky Fowler uh I I I you know it's a different a different form of getting dressed but he he obviously uh he obviously takes a lot of pride in the way he he walks out on that first tee every tournament yeah and I think you know when you think of Tiger Woods can you imagine the 84 what is it 83 wins he's had and he's got he's got a clip of him in 83 red shirts and how synonymous how synonymous it is with when we see him in a red shirt we know it's a Sunday and we know where he what he's doing.

Steve Elkington 55:42

He's probably winning and and um it's unreal. I mean we tell Curtis strange we give him a look we we give Curtis a fair amount of stick but he won the foot he won his two opens in a red shirt and he said he started it and then Trevino said well he wore a red shirt in O'Kill with red socks and he said he started it so we don't know where it started. That's funny.

Mike Gonzalez 56:04

And Mr Nicholas had his yellow for a while too didn't he yep Jack had yellow and that was perfect too. Well let's bring us back to uh let's bring us back to uh a couple more of your career wins you won down on uh what's now Mr.

Steve Elkington 56:18

Trump's course the Dural Blue Monster uh in 1997 what's your recollection of that one that was a good course for me the Blue Monster was a hard course very windy I mean it's a perfect setup for someone coming from Australia growing up in Sydney where you've got the sideways winds Bruce you know New South Wales is where I played most of my golf that's one of the fabulous courses of all in all the world I won that tournament in 97 and in 99 uh the Dural tournament just it it couldn't be a better setup crosswinds I could hit the ball low I didn't have to hit driver I could shape it and you know I remember Raymond Floyd came in and redid that course and I think they put like I don't know I want to say they put 400 bunkers into the course for the 99 event or something like that. You remember that no I did not remember that he went in there and did that oh that's that was one of my favorites of all time and I remember in 99 on this course it had like more than a bunker for every day of the year. So let's call it 400 bunkers they had that year. And I remember putting my I just won the tournament in 99 I was in the locker room you know almost ready to celebrate changing my gear or picking my gear and and Justin Leonard was there and he said I've only been in 28 bunkers and I thought well that you know there's 400 out there that's pretty good and he said no no today I was in 28 bunkers so I I got to thinking about it and about an hour later my caddy I said go go tell me how many bunkers we're in he said for the day or the week or what I said for the week and I was in four so that that goes to tell you I was in the in the fairway the whole week there and that was probably why I won it.

Mike Gonzalez 58:13

Well that second one you closed pretty fast I mean you you you you played really well on Sunday uh uh you were out ahead of the leaders probably right and and and probably uh uh that three putt bogey at 18 I don't think you were a happy camper coming off day 18 because you probably thought that might have cost you the tournament huh well I think I shot about a 66 or something a 65 or something like that on Sunday was it?

Steve Elkington 58:35

64. 64 with a bogey on 18 yeah it was like Bruce's round at uh San Diego except I didn't go in the but no I remember um uh three putting that did a horseshoe came back I did indeed think it was going to cost me a tournament and I had those big nine millimeter spikes on and I remember kicking the um I was kicking something when I came off the course I think I kicked the the scorers tent and put my right my foot right through the steel thing and that was a bit embarrassing when the cameras come over and film that but I don't know I I finished up winning that tournament I was pretty lucky to win that one in 99. And then and then wedge between the two wins at Durell you had a win uh again a a a Buick win at uh Callaway Gardens uh this one in a playoff with Fred Funk in 1998 yes I had places that I won I won multiple times at and I think of you know I think I think there is courses horses for courses Bruce no doubt about it yeah and I tended to do well on the narrow courses with a fair amount of wind and didn't have to be 20 under to win it and that was that was where I knew I was gonna have a my best shot. I was a good putter but I I was a great I felt like I was a really really good lag putter like I could lag it from anywhere. And I was a pretty good putter from about three feet but I I never made tons of putts like I see some of these guys from 20 feet 15 18 feet but when the scoring was 10 12 under somewhere in there and you had to have straight T ball that was where things were better for me.

Bruce Devlin 1:00:07

I think I mentioned it before uh I think the two the two parts of my game that I worked on more than anything else was the you know the start and the finish of it which is uh right up your alley you're saying you if you can lag putt you know you don't have to you don't have to hit it at the flag every time and you you know you're not gonna you're not gonna put it from eight and ten feet all the time either so you better be a good lag putter.

Steve Elkington 1:00:34

Yeah lag putting doesn't get talked about it's not a very um glamorous side of the game but you know I've watched Tiger Woods win a number of different ways you know we saw him when he came on the scene in 97 at Augusta and just demolished the whole place and then we saw him a couple years ago win at Augusta a totally different way. I mean he just did it with all strategy and he played he played left at 12 he you know he played you know he did everything he was supposed to do and he and that's why he was so great and Jack did that so well and I Jack was my you know favorite player watching over here and he was always playing the playing the percentages right and and that was the way he won tournaments.

Intro Music 1:01:15

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