Ben Crenshaw - Part 2 (The Masters Tournament)

Intro Music 0:07

Straight down the middle. It went straight down the middle. Then it started to hook just the wee wee bit.

Bruce Devlin 0:17

And that's when we played there in 1962. We are now, oh, don't tell me. That's what, 59 years ago? I hate to, oh, I hate to even think about that. But back in those days, Ben, the golf course was uh much, much shorter. The greens haven't really changed that much. A couple of rebuilds, but uh what do you what do you think of the way that the golf that golf is evolving relative to the length that these players hit the ball today and uh and and what it's forcing architects to do or committees and golf clubs to do to accommodate that length?

SPEAKER_00 0:59

If you consider how many billions of dollars have been spent just in the last 25 years about lengthening courses and and so many redoes, and I I I just happen to think we're sort of at a dangerous point. Uh in now, I I think some of it's okay, but I I just think we've got to consider who's playing this game and how many people you want to reach. You want to still have you want to have people go to the golf course. They they don't want to go out to a course and get flogged over the head hole after hole by something that's past their capability. Uh but the professional game is is is stretched to a point where I never thought that we'd see uh forty or fifty guys on tour that can carry the ball 300 yards. Uh and it has sort of I think skewed people's thoughts and processes about so many things. Uh and I'm you know, I know that the USGA and the Rolling Ancient have made an agreement to keep a real close contact about the equipment that that is allowed to be played. Uh and it's a I think it's a sticky situation. I think we gotta be careful. Uh I think a little mild rollback would not be such a bad thing. Uh you know, Jack Nicholas, our friend, has been on this case for 35 years. The golf but the golf ball has always been uh part and parcel of what his answers have been. But we gotta be we gotta be careful. I mean, the great courses that you and I've seen, Bruce, that have appealed for so many uh generations uh and tournaments. I mean, uh Wingfoot to me was fascinating to watch this year. Uh you and I know how difficult that course is, and you know, it's got a great collection of holes long holes, short holes, a stern test. Uh and you know, it looked like pretty high rough, too. Uh but I and I'm not vilifying Bryson DeChambeau, and he's doing something that you know has been uh is unheard of. He's building his body up to to a point where nobody ever thought that he's doing it. You cannot you can't harness that because that's a department that the the golf balls and the implements can't reach.

Bruce Devlin 3:57

Correct.

SPEAKER_00 3:59

You don't know how many people now will follow and uh get it to a point where you know I I've to me one of the most beautiful little holes I've ever seen at that golf course is the sixth hole. And it's one of the great little short parfores anywhere. Great green, well defended, but uh you know, a hole like that is uh uh you don't want to you wanna you don't want to say rendered obsolete, but it's starting to be a little dangerous. Uh I I don't know.

Bruce Devlin 4:36

Two questions then relative to that same subject. Will the powers to be, like the RNA and the USCA, will they cut these this technology off and stop the ball from going any further? Or no number two, is it time for two different sets of rules?

SPEAKER_00 5:03

Well, Bruce, uh yeah, I think in answer to your two questions, I think they will act at a certain point. How much they will uh uh I don't know, uh curtailing. Uh but you know that word bifurcation is I think will come up again, and I say I think that you'll uh see it being talked about and studied uh hence from now. And I think the chorus will get a little louder, I suppose.

Mike Gonzalez 5:39

Well, let me uh summarize just briefly for our listeners the professional career of our guest Ben Crenshaw. He turned professional in 1973 at the age of 21, as I mentioned earlier, winning his first event. He had 30 professional wins, including 19 wins on the PGA Tour. That's 39th on the all-time list. Three wins on the European Tour, his highest world ranking fifth in 1988. He spent 80 weeks in the top 10.

SPEAKER_00 6:07

I I probably don't want to mention your playoff record, Ben, because you could have had a few more wins, but Mike, I was going to interject that I said, you know, one of one sterling piece of that career is unblemished. O and eight. O and eight. I really thought about whether I should bring that up. That's like a baseball player and a doubleheader. You know, doubleheaders, well, how'd you do? Well, oh for eight. I've got up the plate eight times hitless.

Mike Gonzalez 6:39

You didn't strike out. Finishing second uh is still pretty good, isn't it?

Bruce Devlin 6:45

Be nice finishing second eight times on the tour right now, wouldn't it, Ben? You'd fill my bank account up, wouldn't you?

SPEAKER_00 6:53

Julie'd be very happy about that, Bruce.

Mike Gonzalez 6:56

I bet she would. So so Ben, we won't get into the details of those eight, and and we'll talk about the 79 uh playoff with David Graham uh in a little bit, but of the other seven, is that is there one that stands out that you really would have liked to have won?

SPEAKER_00 7:13

Yeah, and well, it was the PGA, uh PGA championship with uh uh David Graham. Uh, you know, a major is a major. Uh Oakland Hills uh that year was actually going through a little bit of a drought, so it was a bit less lush. The rough was not as bad. Uh, and and the screens were a little bit soft, and the scores were uh lower there than any tournament they ever had there. That's a really strong golf course. Uh, but no, David just beat me. Uh he made the uh one of the great putts I've ever seen on the first hole of the playoff for a par, which tied me. I hit a nice approach putt up, and David made a 20-footer down the hill uh to extend it uh to second hole, and and uh David again made a great putt to to equal my birdie, and then he hit a great a good shot on the par three and snuffed me out. But uh no, losing a sudden death playoff in a major is pretty tough. But uh, you know, all the others, you know, many times you know, players played better, or I shot myself in the foot, or you know, I I lost them in all different kinds of ways.

Mike Gonzalez 8:39

We talked, we had a chance to talk to David Graham uh recently, and so we got his version on that uh on that uh that that major win, the PGA. And uh, of course, he he recalls for us uh doubling the 18th hole to shoot 65.

SPEAKER_00 8:56

Well, yeah. I mean, how about that? A great course like Oakland Hills, and if David parsed the last hole, he's gonna shoot 63, which is unheard of in a in a major championship, but that's how well he was playing at the time. And uh, you know, it was really gutsy what he did. And you know, uh he told me one time, he said, you know something, uh if if if he didn't uh make that and win that tournament, it wouldn't it wouldn't have given him the confidence that he went ahead and won at Marion with with such a brilliant performance there at the U.S. Open. And I'm sure that helped him, but uh wow, he was just a hell of a player and a good friend.

Mike Gonzalez 9:46

Yeah, we enjoyed our visit with him as well. Um well let's in addition to the two majors, uh those being masters wins, which we'll talk about. You uh you had a uh, as I said, 19 PGA uh tour victories. What are some of the most memorable for you? I know you you you mentioned that uh that win at San Antonio, the Texas Open uh in 1973 by two over the Sarge uh would have been memorable because it was your first tournament. Yeah, well it was.

SPEAKER_00 10:12

It was um uh I had a I kept playing well that week, and and uh uh I remember in the last hole. The last hole was a very tough par five and had water. Uh I played very conservatively off the tee. I think I had one or two shot lead at that time. Orville Moody was one of the straightest drivers I ever saw. And he took that driver and hit it right down there, put the pressure on me, and uh I played the hole as a three-shot hold, and I made a nice birdie at the last hold to. But uh Orville Moody said, I said, I ran into this little nut and I couldn't crack it. But uh anyway, that I I remember winning the Ben Crosby one year at Pebble Beach was a lot of fun. Uh uh had a really good last day. It was pretty breezy that day, and to play Pebble Beach and to win there was always a thrill. I of course lost twice in a playoff there. I lost two playoffs there at Pebble Beach, but uh no, I I had a lot of any any time you won, you felt like you, you know, you you had good fortune on the way, but you were proud of the way that you finished. Uh proud of the opportunities that you were given, and to rise above any competition was a thrill. And it happened a few times, but uh uh I've got some I've got some memorable wins and some memorable crashes as well.

Mike Gonzalez 12:10

As a as a Texas lad, uh was it uh extra special to win at Colonial and win Byron Nelson's tournament?

SPEAKER_00 12:17

Wow. I mean, you know, we we had in both cases, you know, with Dallas and Fort Worth, uh, you know, both Bruce and I have a lot of friends in both places, and the Colonial Tournament was, you know, it always took on the the persona of Ben Hogan. You could not separate the two thoughts of Colonial and Ben Hogan. And then on the other token in Dallas, you couldn't help but thinking Byron Nelson, and both of them were were, you know, when you were born in Texas and you started playing golf in Texas, the two first people that you ever started learning about was Ben Hogan and Byron Nelson. And then came Jackie Burke and Jimmy Demerett, and and then it came Lee Trevino. Those guys, Bruce will tell you that had the highest thoughts and esteem for them, and to have won those tournaments made me very happy. Uh, you know, uh and matter of fact, again, I lost in two playoffs, two more playoffs, one at Colonial and one at Byron Nelson. So, but but uh to have won those tournaments made me very, very happy. Wow.

Mike Gonzalez 13:38

So, what is it about Texas and all the great golfers that come from there? I I Bruce, I think just about every one of our guests thus far this season has been Texas golfers.

Bruce Devlin 13:48

Yeah, well, you know, it's got a golf's got a great history here. And and the two players, well, the four players that Ben had mentioned. I mean, uh, pretty pretty hard to go past the four of them, Byron Nelson and Ben Hogan and Jimmy DeMarit and Jackie Book. And you know, we've still got Jackie Bourke with us, too, Ben. Oh, unbelievable.

SPEAKER_00 14:09

I I talked to him uh the week of uh Augusta, and I said, Jackie, do you want to say anything to these guys at the at the at the champions dinner? And he said, Well, he said, big trees, big, big hills, white sand, no two greens alike. That's Augusta. That's what he said. That's great. One thing, Mike, is that when I watch players come up these days, and of course I've got a great affection affection for my own home state in Texas, and you learn, but I'll tell you what, in in Bruce's case, man, when I watch Australians coming up these days, they have they have learned to play under different conditions. They've played in wind, they've played in firm ground, and they know how to get it around. And that that provides such a great basis for learning and your experience. And I'm particularly fond of the Australian players. I love watching Mark Leishman. These guys are just players. I mean, they they know how to play, and that's where they were brought up. So I think they've got a leg up on the competition that way. At least that's my opinion.

Bruce Devlin 15:33

Well, do you think uh not so sure they got a leg up, but you know, then you make a very good point. And uh you know, in the older older days, there were you know players like Eric Kremen and Norman von Neiter in Australia and Peter Thompson, obviously. Uh Peter never really uh spent much time with the younger players, it was more Eric uh Kremen and Norman von Neiter's task to do that. But uh about 20 years ago, they started a program which was the Institute of Golf in Australia. Uh and that that I believe has had a just a tremendous effect on the younger players that are coming up in Australia. They uh not only they learn how to play golf, but they learn how to be gentlemen, and you know it's it's sort of a it's a little bit like the Ben Hogan Foundation and and and the nine uh the nine uh things that they they talk about with the young players here in this country, but uh I think that Institute of Golf's had a big bearing on the Australian players.

SPEAKER_00 16:39

I'd love to watch Cameron Smith and you know, just God, it's just talent. Talent. And I I love love to watch it.

Mike Gonzalez 16:48

Ben, let me just ask you about one other regular tour stop, only because it's near and dear to my heart being a Chicago native. Uh my first recollection of watching you play was probably in the early 80s at Butler National when you would come into town to play at the Western Open. What's your recollections of playing in that golf tournament?

SPEAKER_00 17:06

Oh, Western Open was big. You know, we had the benefit of playing the Western amateur when I was coming through as an amateur ranks, and that was huge as an amateur. But then, and then when you got to Chicago and you watched the places that we played at the Western Open along with the Evans uh Scholars Foundation, and you know, there's I I don't think there's any more avid golfers anywhere in the world than Midwesterners. Uh they have a short season, but man, they get their licks in and they love golf. Uh, you know, golf outside of New York and Boston and Philadelphia, uh, Chicago means as much to this country in golf as almost anybody. Uh and two of one there uh was was tremendous. And that was another place that I lost a playoff to Larry Nelson at Butler. We played one hole. Larry hit a three wood and a nine error and about a foot foot from the hole, and he said, Goodbye, Ben. That's it. So but no, I loved playing in Chicago and loved meeting the people who are behind organizational help there in Chicago and the wonderful courses. Um Chicago Golf Club is one of my dear, dear places, and I happen to be a member there. They had a very weak moment and voted me in as a member there. Can you believe that? That but anyway, I it's I love that place, but I love the people in Chicago, how well they uh play golf and how much they love it. So that was wonderful winning the Western Open.

Mike Gonzalez 18:59

I had a chance right out of college to uh come to Butler and get a lesson from Erie Ball.

SPEAKER_00 19:06

Well, yeah, great friend of Bobby Jones and the the original 1934 Masters Tournament. There's Erie Ball uh from England, uh, you know, one of the immigrant pros that came to this country. Uh wow, can you imagine the life that he had? You know, we had many years when we'd sit and listen to him. You know, fascinating, fascinating. But uh uh, you know, so many different people around Chicago. My gosh, the the people that I met at Chicago Gothic, the IC Harbor, Red Harbor built Oak Brook with, you know, he was a developer of Oak Brook. I mean, the guy was amazing, but all sorts of people uh that you got to be Don Kelly, who built an unbelievable business, and I'm good friends with his son Pat. Great Irish family, Notre Dame.

Mike Gonzalez 20:09

Wow, big time Notre Dame. Big time Notre Dame. Of course, Bill Sheehan was a pretty fine senior golfer that played out of Chicago Golf and Butler.

SPEAKER_00 20:17

Bill Sheehan, great player, great proponent of of uh uh proper golf, member of Pine Valley, uh just a wonderful, dedicated player. Uh yeah, it's like it's in their bones there.

Bruce Devlin 20:36

A lot of a lot of people have had great respect for Mr. Ben Crenshaw. And if we go back to uh 1991, he received the Bob Jones Award, and then the old Thomas Tom Morris Award, the Payne Stewart Award, was inducted into the World Golf Hall of Fame, to the Texas Golf Hall of Fame. Was there any more, Ben?

SPEAKER_00 21:06

Oh I've been so lucky, and I I I golf is an amazing game. You know, Bruce, you and I owe our lives to it.

Bruce Devlin 21:19

Yes, we do.

SPEAKER_00 21:20

But the people we've met, the people we've come across, people we've we've learned from and continue to learn from. Uh it's a game of a lifetime. Uh uh you and I are great proponents of the game. You know, I think one of the great uh simple lines that I ever read was from Donald Ross, you know, who we owe a lot to. He an immigrant uh uh gentleman coming from Scotland, who was a great builder of golf courses, and he had a great philosophy of Life and he had one line that I came across a long time ago, and he said, If if a country gets golf minded, it doesn't have to worry about its people. And I thought, wow, that's what a statement. That's a great statement. Because you know, there are rules uh in golf, and there's rules in life. And carry it so further, Jackie Burke one time told me, he said, Ben, you said there's rules. You know, he said, I happen to believe those too. He said, if the air conditioning man's late, he said, that's two, that's two strokes on him. I just went, wow, that's that's carrying it pretty good, Jackie. And he said, Well, he said, We there's rules in life. Uh we all have pitfalls. We've got to pull ourselves out of it somehow, and we can enjoy our friends with this great game, and there's nothing like it. I encourage everybody to learn something about golf, take it up, because uh, wow, it's uh it's a it's a it's a great recreation that's been around over 500 years. There's a reason for that. It's timeless.

Mike Gonzalez 23:21

And I think our listeners would enjoy hearing you recount your two masters victories. Uh uh I'll just uh say a couple of things about your major championship performances. Uh 1987 had to be a highlight, first of all, uh to be in the top ten in every major. What do you remember about 87? You must have really been on a roll that year.

SPEAKER_00 23:44

Uh I it was a good time in my life. Uh I was uh physically wise and playing wise. Um yeah, I had a nice, nice run. Uh felt like I was capable and playing good golf. Uh and uh I had um I remember that 87 year, that was the year of the Ryder Cup, uh in which we were defeated uh uh by a wonderful team there at Muirfield Village, uh and with Jack Nicholas's captaincy, uh the other team played great, they hold more putts and they played better than we did. But uh uh the bad thing is that we lost for Jack on his home course. I mean, that was pretty tough. We all felt terrible. Um and uh dumb me, of course, I broke my putter in the last round there at Muirfield Village against a great old guy, Eamon Darcy from Ireland. But uh that was not a good time to break your putter. Uh I I putted a couple of holes with a sand wedge, and then I had I was playing with a one-iron in those days, and I put with a one-iron, actually made a couple, but uh to look at Jack Nicholas in the eye on the seventh, eighth T-box, and uh he did not know what happened. And he said, How's it going, Ben? I said, Well, I broke my putter back there, Jack, and he said, Oh my god, he said, Oh God. He said, With the way things are going, I don't blame you. And I said, Oh God. It was a horrible day. I remember this that Julie and I were expecting our first child and Catherine. Uh that really didn't have anything to do with it, but wow, we all went down with the ship and we felt terrible for Jack.

Bruce Devlin 25:57

So that putter just fell out of your hand and broke.

SPEAKER_00 26:01

Bruce, I don't know what I saw, I saw this, uh, I saw this hickory nut on the ground. Of course, I just three putted the sixth green, and I was a little bit hot, and I walked over the seventh T and I took the somehow I had the putter head in my hand, and I saw this nut and I hit it. I I've hit, I've I've struck things a lot harder. Let's say that. Uh and the putt the shaft snapped in two, and I went, oh God, it was devastating, devastating. But to give you a little idea of my temper that got the best of me, I'll never forget three-putting the 16th green at Colonial. One year I was in contention, and I walked up towards the 17th T and I kicked an oil drum full of trash, and I made full contact with it. My big toe has not been right ever since. I had two surgeries on it. So I've got a I've got a temper, uh, and they cost me.

Bruce Devlin 27:09

Nobody would guess that though, man.

Mike Gonzalez 27:12

Let's let's start with the Masters. Uh, 44 starts in the Masters, and and and made the cut in 20 of his first 21 played. Uh uh this next line, I'd challenge anybody to match it. Eight, maybe, maybe Nicholas, perhaps, or I don't know about Tiger, but eight top fives, 11 top 10, 18 top 25s, of course, your best finishes, uh 84 and and and 95. Let's start with the 1984 victory, which was a win by two over Tom Watson.

SPEAKER_00 27:46

I um uh was one of the weeks where I held my temper, and Jack and I felt a calmness with the way I was playing. Uh I had um I had gotten a new driver, and I'll never forget this. Uh north of Houston, there's a little town called Humble, Texas, and this guy had a this guy had a blonde McGregor driver, an M85W driver, and I just loved the look of it. And I said, wow, that's that I love that driver, and it helped me. And uh I had just signed a contract with Walter Hagen, uh, and I had a set of irons that I had gotten at Durell uh in late February, and I really loved those irons. Uh so I was happy with my equipment. Um I came into there playing well. I finished about fifth at Greensboro the week before, and um wow, I started started well in the tournament and kept going, and some wonderful things happened that week on the course, and uh uh was right up right up by the lead going to the last day, got off to a nice start, and uh I had birdie number eight and number nine that last day, and then went to the tenth hole and hit a so-so drive, and I hit a three-iron second. I kind of hung it out to the right and got it on the front of the green, and lo and behold, I make this 65-foot putt, which I would have killed for a two-putt at that juncture, because you know, Larry Nelson and Tom Kite were right there, and I made that putt. I could not believe that. I said, good lord, and I had to calm down for three holes after that, and uh got through and made a birdie at 12 uh with a nice putting, and I got through and and and and it got to be one or two ahead, and then 14. I'll never forget this. I did not hit a great drive, and I had to hit play a draw shot, and I drew it to the back left of that green, and the pin was down front right. So I had this like a 90-foot putt that I had to roll it down the hill, and I left it 14 feet short. And somehow I made that second putt. That's one of the hardest putts I ever had over there. Uh and I made that, and it really calmed me down to play the last few holes and uh played the last hole with a two-shot uh lead. Tom Watson made a big rush at the end. And uh wow, I I uh had a good drive in 18, hit a second shot up on the green, and started walking up there, and I started thinking about high school golf and college golf and where I'd been in this game, and finally it happened. I'd been close in six or seven major championships at the time, and you never know until you prove it to yourself. Uh you feel like you're capable, but uh if you hold yourself together sometimes, it it's it's better off. But uh uh wow, what a relief. And uh, you know, one thing too is that uh the nicest thing about that is that my father was there with me. Um and to have him watch that, uh, we had the greatest joy of that.

Mike Gonzalez 31:41

Yeah, you had come into that. I think you had had five previous runner-up finishes and majors, and so part of that was you were due.

SPEAKER_00 31:51

Well, you never know. You you have to you feel like you might be able to do it if things go well, and you uh you got to piece it together somehow. Uh you know, one thing is at that tournament, Bruce, I know that you uh played late on Sunday many times, and the and the starting times were way late, you know, one two o'clock.

SPEAKER_01 32:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:17

And it drove me nuts because I I like to get up early. And uh wow, there's a lot of time to think uh about all that. And it uh so you you're it's such a relief when it's over.

Bruce Devlin 32:32

Well, it wasn't over for you though, because uh 11 years later you were able to win again, which uh we talked about a little bit uh and the relationship that you had with Harvey Pennick, but uh that had to be that had to be as rewarding as the as the 84, I would imagine, in your mind.

SPEAKER_00 32:51

It was, it was surreal. And and I think uh apart from uh and my father was still alive then. He was he did not come to the tournament, but uh in Harvey's situation and the end of his life and how the week unfolded and then getting through the tournament. Um and then, you know, afterwards I I thought, well, God, you know, I didn't think it at the time, but I said, you know, that may be one of the last times you have to win. Yeah, I was 43 years old then. Uh I played okay after that, but wow. To have won on that occasion on those circumstances will always be my finest hour, no question. Uh I think so much of Augusta National. I've always thought so highly of Bobby Jones. He's like a I've read everything that he's ever written about the game, and the whole place is a reflection of how he thought about things. I always like to think Bruce about the golf course being very much like him. You know, he thought of the land, he wanted to showcase that land, he didn't want to disfigure it. The tournament was completely different tournament, different set of qualifications. You're supposed to be a gentleman, uh and the architecture of the buildings, uh, what it meant to the South. Uh it's very much like a Southern Garden Party, really, when you start thinking about it. And everything is done with such an exceedingly rare taste, and it's adhered to. Uh you know, I don't know who else could have written on the back of the pairing sheet. It starts in golf customs of etiquette decorum are just as important as the rules of play. And I mean, the guy could write like no one, and and he saw an outburst of the gallery one day, and that's where that line came from. And it's printed on every pairing sheet. You know, you're supposed to act like a lady and and a gentleman when you get there. It's very much about him and the way that Clifford Roberts ran the tournament. Uh no one ran it uh with more of a conviction than Clifford Roberts. And Clifford Roberts when he and Bobby Jones started there in the early 30s and then the 34 tournament was the first one, they had suffered in putting together that club, the worst time to ever put together a golf club in the Great Depression. They could not give away memberships. Uh and they they did everything they could do to to get that place off the ground. Uh people people don't really uh know that. It's fascinating history, fascinating history. And then the whole place is just like a botanical garden. You know, every hole is named after a flower that the the a Belgian nursery man looked after the property forever. You know, you go Magnolia Lane, and those those magnolias were planted before the Civil War. And then on the corner of the clubhouse, this most unbelievable wisteria bush. And it's a tree, and it is reputed to be the first wisteria bush planted in the United States. Uh, it's just fascinating. The whole place is captivating. I was just there four days ago with some friends. I I've only played uh about five times other than the tournament, and uh I I still I'm just so fortunate that I won that tournament and I can be there.

Bruce Devlin 37:12

Well, they think the world of you as well, Ben, because uh you are now the current Master of Ceremonies at the Champions Dinner. That's quite an honor.

SPEAKER_00 37:24

Well, it it is, Bruce. Uh I'll never forget uh I was at home one day and Byron Nelson called me on the telephone and he said, Ben, he said, I've been going over there since 1935 or 1934, and he said, I physically can't make it this year. And he said, I want you to take over at the at the dinner. And I went, Wow. Uh he said, You love golf history and you and you love this place, uh, I want you to take over. He said, keep it light, keep it moving, and and have fun with it. And that's what we've done. And I just sort of start the dinner off, make a few announcements, and um introduce the the champion, and we we tell stories. Uh and I it's intimidating, Bruce, to stand up in front of all the champions, and you look down at the rows of you're looking at golf history. And uh, you know, God, Bob Goldby was there this year, he's 94. Of course, Jackie Burke's 98 and could not come, the oldest living champion. Uh Charlie Cootie.

Bruce Devlin 38:42

50th.

SPEAKER_00 38:43

This was his his 50th year of winning, all sorts of anniversaries, but uh uh Dustin Johnson made a made a wonderful talk, and we were were greeted too with a great message from Tiger Woods, who said how much he missed the dinner uh and how much the place meant to him and and all of us. It was very heartfelt, and it it gave us a real boost. It was really, really nice. And man, we we pray for his recovery. Uh he's lucky to be alive, but he means a lot to golf, you know. And I think I don't know, in my mind, Bruce, Jack Nicholas is maybe the greatest player of all time, but no one has ever played the game like Tiger Woods during those seven years. Uh but uh I we pray for his recovery.

Bruce Devlin 39:48

Well, I have one question, just one simple question. Uh you you you making your opening remarks next year in Japanese?

SPEAKER_00 40:00

You know how tough that's gonna be in Texas Japanese? No, that's um yeah, it means a lot to golf. Sure it does. Uh worldwide golf. And there have been capable people from around the world who've won that tournament, but it's it's an amazing thing to see a a country that is so golf crazy like Japan. Can you imagine? I keep looking for the footage of Hideki Matsuyama setting foot back in Japan. It must be complete bedlam. Uh but uh he's accomplished something that, and he had the whole country on his shoulders. That's quite an effort. But man, what a golfer. What a golfer he is.

Bruce Devlin 41:00

I heard that uh that he's gonna carry the flag into the stadium for the Olympics. Uh have you heard that?

Mike Gonzalez 41:07

No, I I I did not hear that. Did you hear that, Ben, about uh him maybe carrying the flag into the Olympics?

SPEAKER_00 41:14

I you know, I heard that being suggested, but man, if if I think that would be entirely appropriate. Entirely appropriate.

Mike Gonzalez 41:23

Well, we just talked to Charlie Cootie not too long ago. Of course, next year will be his 50th champion's dinner. He made it very clear to us that if this young fellow is going to serve sushi, he's ordering the biggest steak in the place.

SPEAKER_00 41:40

Well, Kobe Beef might do, you know.

Mike Gonzalez 41:43

That might be terrific, but uh why don't you take us back 1985? You're sitting at your first master's dinner. Why don't you put us and our listeners into the room? Who was all there? Do you remember?

SPEAKER_00 41:58

Well, Hort Harden was the chairman. And um uh that was the the the that part of the the menu started changing after that for champions. Uh that was one of the last years where you had to order from the club. So we had steak and chicken. But I'll never forget this though. I did order when they brought out the pickles, uh that I put some jalapenos in there. And Horde Harden, I don't think he knew what they were, and he bit into one, and that starch white shirt was, I mean, you could see the beads of sweat coming down. He was a trooper, though, he never let on. But you know, I think then the the next year, 1985, was Sandy Lyle's year, and then that that year forward you could make up your own menu. And Sandy Lyle had haggis from Scotland, and wow, that was that was something that I know Bruce has had it. I have, but uh, I must say it's not one of the most appetizing dishes that I've ever had, but we had it for him. We had some great exotic menus over the over the over the long haul. Adam Scott uh Bruce had botany bay bugs. Yes, you know what they are. It was they're tremendous, delicious. VJ Singh had a Fijian uh menu. Uh my last one there, I bought barbecue in from Texas. Uh it was we've had some great ones.

Mike Gonzalez 43:53

So, what do you recall about your first encounters with um either Mr. Roberts or Mr. Jones?

SPEAKER_00 44:01

Well, you know what? I I never did get to meet Bobby Jones. My first year playing there was 1972. And uh Mr. Jones uh passed away at Christmas 1971. So I never got to meet him. Uh uh I did meet many times with Mr. Roberts though, and uh I what a what a what an austere everybody was scared to death of Mr. Roberts, and rightly so. I mean he he he was an autocrat, ran the place with an iron fist, uh and I I will say this uh he was great to me one day early on, and I had he came over and he said, Ben, he said, we're mighty happy to have you here. He said, uh I've spent a little time in Texas. He said, I sold some oil leases, sold some clothes, uh, and spent quite a bit of time there. You know, Texans have done really well in this tournament. Byron Nelson, Ben Hogan, Jackie Burke. He said, by the way, Ben, you know we have a barber shop on the property. So I went to the house.

Bruce Devlin 45:19

Might be a good time to have.

SPEAKER_00 45:20

My hair was long. I said, I went right into the barber shop that they used to have and got a haircut. He reeled me right in. It was great.

Mike Gonzalez 45:32

Thank you for listening to another episode of For the Good of the Game. And please, wherever you listen to your podcast on Apple and Spotify, if you like what you hear, please subscribe, spread the word, and tell your friends. Until we tee it up again for the good of the game. So long, everybody.

Intro Music 45:52

It went smack down the fairway. And it started to slice, just smidge off line. It headed for two, but it bounced off nine. My caddy says long as you're still in the state, you're okay.