Bill Rogers - Part 2 (The 1981 Open Championship)

Intro Music 0:07

Straight down the middle. It went straight down the middle. Then it started to hook just a week.

Mike Gonzalez 0:16

Well, Bill, you had uh several other significant wins, which I'll recount for our listeners. You won the World Series of Golf in 1981. Uh that that year sounds familiar.$100,000 was the first prize. That was a one-stroke victory over Tom Kite. You won the Texas Open that year at Oak Hills Country Club in a playoff with Ben Crenshaw. Of course, we reminded Ben about his 0-8 playoff record during his career.

SPEAKER_03 0:40

Oh gosh. Worst playoff record uh on tour. Uh and of course, we're best of friends. I like winning, but I had to beat my butt, you know.

Mike Gonzalez 0:52

Go figure. Uh Bill won the 1982 PGA Grand Slam of Golf. That was at PJ National. Uh and that was an event featuring the four major winners from the previous year. So obviously your win at Royal St. George's would have qualified at you and David Graham, Larry Nelson, and Tom Watson for that event.

SPEAKER_03 1:11

Yeah. That was a fun time together. We uh we had a ball playing, and uh I don't know, it it it didn't seem like it was a terror ordinance, but we uh uh we we had a good time playing there. Good, good, good, good event.

Mike Gonzalez 1:28

And then the next year you won the US F and G Classic uh at Lakewood uh Country Club. And uh and I'll you know uh I'll mention uh uh you had a you had a couple playoff disappointments, everybody does, but uh part of it is getting in the playoff, you know, and and uh one was at Preston Trails and the Byron Nelson Golf Classic, and I guess as a Texan you would have loved to have won that tournament.

SPEAKER_03 1:51

Oh gosh, it just killed me. I think I finished two years in a row uh losing in the playoff. Uh what was it? I don't know if it was 79 or 80 to Watson, and then uh he he beat me on in extra holes, and then I think he I was second to him another year there. But yeah, you every Texan wants to win and win the Nelson or the Colonial or the Texas Open. And that hurt. That that one really hurt, especially uh uh you know, in light of uh uh a good bud Bruce Litsky had won there, and heck I wanted to I wanted to match him up with a win there, but it didn't happen.

Mike Gonzalez 2:30

I probably saw you play a few times at uh Western Open at Butler National because I I lived about 10 minutes from there. So uh you were in a playoff with Andy Bean in 78. I'm sure I was there. Do you remember playing there in the year when they had the flood and they had to actually put the public course into play for a few holes?

SPEAKER_03 2:46

Absolutely. Remember that was one of my favorite events, and uh heck I very, very badly wanted to win that event as well. Uh uh I just I just love the Western Golf Association, everything they stood for, and I love Butler, uh Butler National. And yeah, that was a uh they had to piecemeal that deal together, and I I still don't know how they got it done. Uh cars floating around and uh practice tea was out of commission, I think. Uh Bruce, did you play that year?

Bruce Devlin 3:16

No, I didn't play that year. Oh no.

SPEAKER_03 3:19

It it was uh and not that the golf course wasn't hard enough, but uh There's some pretty good holes there at Battle National.

Bruce Devlin 3:28

How about trying to make a birdie at the last hole to win?

SPEAKER_03 3:31

Or or or let how about a par? I'd have taken a par one year. I made a miracle, miracle bogey to get in the playoff.

Mike Gonzalez 3:40

That's a hard golf course, but I have video, Bill, from that flood year. I went out on the golf course literally hours after the the final rain stopped and and walked out and captured, you know, number number uh uh seven, the par five, going around the corner underwater, number eight underwater, number nine in front of the fairway underwater, uh obviously one, ten, uh everything by that creek underwater.

SPEAKER_03 4:05

There's no no way we were going to play that event. And somehow or another we uh I remember I'll tell you what I remember distinctly is that they were able to highlight that new water ejection system. I think they called it the hog, and it was a kind of a vehicle they could drive through the water and it's it it shot it you know into a creek or something like that. But uh that they I can't even remember where they brought them in from, but that was a big help in getting that golf course uh somewhat ready to play, but incorporating some other holes from the other golf course, crazy.

Mike Gonzalez 4:41

Yeah, yeah. Erie Ball was the the director of golf uh back in the day. Uh last man standing, the last guy that uh was living uh that had played the first Masters. Wow. I was fortunate enough to have a a lesson from Erie uh right out of college uh at Butler National, one of my favorite memories uh of golf. Yeah, yeah. Let's talk a little bit about uh major championships then. Uh uh in the uh in the Masters, uh you played it eight times, made four cuts. Uh give us a little bit of your recollection of Augusta Nashville and the Masters.

SPEAKER_03 5:15

Too big a golf course uh for me. Uh, you know, I always felt like it was on this grand scale, and my game didn't suit uh the golf course. You know, everybody, you know, always talked about obviously from Jack's length and players uh of uh that had the length were successful. So I always tried to adjust my uh my the way I played uh to to try to do do something that was really pretty uncomfortable to match up with the golf course. Maybe you know, trying to hit hooks where I wouldn't normally hit. I don't know. Just uh I always felt completely different. Love the place, loved everything about it, loved being there. Uh I just uh I'd almost like to, if I was able to redo, I'd redo my mindset going into uh how I was gonna play a uh Augusta National. But I felt sometimes too, talking about the grand scale of the place, I sometimes felt like I had such time uh concentrating on on playing because I felt like a kind of a spectator inside the ropes. I was just enamored by the place. It was uh uh it always kind of almost felt overwhelming to me. And I never never felt comfortable around Augusta National. I hate to admit that, but uh that was that was really the case. Only played one good good round there, and that was my first year. There was a second round, and I shot 68, four under, always a good round. Around that was the only good round of golf I played around there.

Mike Gonzalez 6:55

So Yeah, some of those points that Bill made sound familiar to you, Bruce.

Bruce Devlin 7:00

Yeah, it's uh Bill's Bill's correct, too, I think. Uh the golf course does force you to do things that you normally wouldn't do. Uh I believe it's a it's a it's a better golf course for a right-hander that that does in fact hit it from right to left. There's hardly any holes there that uh that you can't find your way around with a right to left shot, maybe the first hole. But you know, a little bit difficult aiming at that bunker and then trying to turn it off. But uh I think the real strength of Augusta National is the the green complexes, though. Boy, you can get into some places where it's nearly impossible to get it up and down.

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SPEAKER_03 7:43

Make you look like a fool. I uh I would tell you, in watching all this modern day charting and the availability of information that they have on all the golf course, and with the investment of time, these guys, heck, they go and play the golf course maybe a week at a time prior to the tournament. They've really, really uh bought into learning the golf course. Um you know, I played enough practice rounds with Crenshaw and a few others around there to get a tip or two, or but I never uh took it so seriously that I had to uh do that much homework to play well there. But I would have probably been well served had I done that.

Mike Gonzalez 8:25

I think the one thing I picked up from you, Bill, you mentioned mindset, and that perhaps you know if you had to do different, you might have just tried to come with a different mindset. We've heard that from a few of our guests, actually.

SPEAKER_03 8:40

He could he could win in the parking lot, he could win anywhere. He taught he he was absolutely no factor at Augusta, was he, Bruce? No, he had no factor.

Bruce Devlin 8:49

He didn't like it. Uh I mean I think he liked being there. It was sort of a bit like what you just said. You know, it's a great, it's a great feeling to drive down Magnolia Lane and great practice facilities and a fabulous golf course to play on. But uh I guess, you know, he always said he hit the ball too low to play in Augusta. So I don't know.

Mike Gonzalez 9:11

Let's move on to the U.S. Open. Uh uh 13 starts, seven cuts made. He had three top fives, including uh uh a couple uh particularly that were that were back to back, that you were right there. You you tied second in 1981, and that was to David Graham at Marion, and our listeners will remember the the round that that David played that day. It probably goes down as one of the finest ball-striking rounds that was ever played. Uh missed uh green by a few inches, but just got it around in a very, very tidy fashion. And uh and then uh a tied for third the next year at 1982, in a year when, of course, Watson uh had the uh the very memorable chip in at 17. Uh Bruce remembers that because he was in the hunt deep into that event. And uh so to take us through just uh each of those experiences, if you will, Bill.

SPEAKER_03 10:09

Well, uh uh to speak to David Graham's victory, no doubt. It was uh I think people act actually have called it kind of the perfect round. I wouldn't disagree with that. However, um, you know, uh had a maybe another butter two dropped. I mean, I I I I I was right there, as was uh I guess co-runner up George Burns, but I didn't know uh what George was up to. But uh I felt like I I was right there in any kind of little bit of a hiccup from David, um, you know, who knows? But uh man, I I loved all all everything about Mary. And it it was kind of, and I love frankly, US Open golf. Uh and they always had their ways of uh, you know, emphasizing even par. And I kind of like tough setup. I like tougher golf courses, and uh, of course, the whole uh history background to the place really turned my crank, and uh I kind of had a great affinity for the golf course, and you a lot of times that makes a big difference in in in how you take on the week. But heck here I was. I've I I was in the hunt in the mix and um Bertie uh I had a uh I'll never forget, really a real kind of flaring uh kind of an ugly drive on 18. I got it in the fairway, but I had about 230 or 235 to the pin. I actually hit three wood into the 18th hole. I'd fanned it out there, made birdie, uh, end up making birdie on the last hole and uh ended up tied second with George Burns. But uh, you know, the open always uh seemed like it, U.S. Open always identified, as does uh usually all the other majors identifies the best players that week and those that are uh kind of have been trending in that direction. But David was special that week and he he had the U.S. Open uh he had a he had the major championship kind of framework mindset. He he just was built for those kind of tests. He's a good champion, yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 12:27

What what do you recall about the uh the next year at Pebble Beach?

SPEAKER_03 12:30

Well, 82. Um uh Bruce and I remember we we uh we we were in the hunt. I teed it up with uh Watson the last day he and I were tied, and a lot of my little run, if you will, uh, which I kind of you know about beginnings of 77 through 83, something like that, Tom was going real well. And you know, he'd stubbed his toe in the U.S. Open, getting it over the finish line uh in several U.S. opens. And uh all I would say is uh boy, it uh he was ready to win it, and he proved it to me that day. We stepped up on the fourth T, Bruce knowing the hole well, short par four. Uh I'll bet you that 85, 90 percent, maybe even 95% of the field laid up on number four. You had the ocean on the right or the little bay on the right, and I don't even think I ever heard of anybody hitting driver on that hole. Tom Watson stood up on that T box, teed that ball extra high, started it down the right hand side with a driver, and knocked it right in front in the front on the front fringe. And I I can remember kind of swallowing and saying, Oh my gosh. He uh this and and that's the way he played all day, frankly. He he he played like uh uh uh aggressive, very aggressive. Um he he was playing to win, and he overcame a couple of uh uh little little early hiccups in the round. And you know, the 17th hole proves to be arguably the most showed uh golf clip. I wish I got a royalty for that, by the way. Uh be you know, my little my little heck, I was uh I'd seen the heroics and miracles of all day that day, but that would that trumped them all. And golly, what a what a shot. And uh heck, he he hit the pitch that went in the hole and and then birdied 18 to go ahead and cap it off. You know, you don't have to birdie 18. You can make bogey, and I think if he bogeys 18, uh he's still got to par 18, I believe, to tie Nicholas. Uh no, no, he can par 18 and still win. Right. But uh he and I can tell you what, that putt he made was plenty frisky going down through there when he knew he could two putt to win. And uh he was the best man that day, I promise you.

Mike Gonzalez 15:05

Yeah. Well, there were two uh two memorable U.S. opens. Uh let's move on to your favorite. I'm sure the Open Championship, uh, you started seven times, uh four cuts made, uh a couple of top tens, four top twenty-fives. Would you say your game as a Texan, probably playing in the wind, low ball hitter perhaps uh was well suited for open championship golf?

SPEAKER_03 15:29

I'd have to say yes. And as much as you equate low ball with wind or tough conditions, uh solid uh ball striking, catching the ball solidly is ever a bit as more important as keeping it low. And I uh I could do that, I could keep my golf ball out in front of me. And you know, I had a uh a magical week. Of course, I'm riding high off of having one at Hilton Head, then second in the U.S. Open, and I've always said give a give a player a little bit of confidence and watch out, and you know, plenty of experience to enter a major championship. And uh man, it it laid out I was able to uh when I faced adversity, able to overcome it that week and every week.

Mike Gonzalez 16:20

Well, we're gonna have you take us through it. Uh one of the questions I have is is having finished uh uh pretty well the previous year at Muirfield, I think you were T19 at Muirfield the previous year, which was I think your first open, is that right? It was. So uh if this is true, is it true that Ben Crenshaw sort of had to convince you to come over for this one?

SPEAKER_03 16:41

100%. And uh he was of course, he and uh Bruce Litzke, myself, and Bobby Watkins, a few others, Jay Hoss, we're all close in, very close friends. And uh Bruce or uh Ben was always encouraging us uh to experience open golf and you know, Lynx golf. And uh heck, we finally bought in and because it will we were in an era where not everybody was that keen and quick, certainly from an expense standpoint, but just all you know, it it really encompasses uh a two-week buy-in as much as it does just a a week to play the tournament. So be that as it may, uh we were we finally relented and and agreed to uh take Ben's advice and come over and and play. We all stayed together, which made it extra special, and uh uh I'm certainly happy we did because Muirfield, arguably one of the, well, it is way high on the list of open venues. But uh I'll never forget we stayed at Greywalls, which is right there at Muirfield, and Tom Wiskopf and I had finished our round early, and we're sitting there uh in the in the kind of the gathering study area in Greywalls, and he said, Come on, let's go out and watch uh Watson's gonna win. Let's watch him walk up the 72nd hole. So we get up and we walk uh and we get under the TV tower, and here comes Watson, and they, you know, the fans had already stormed the fairway. And he said, Bill, I'll tell you what, he says, you know, that could be you one of these days. You could win this tournament. And he didn't know it, but I kind of took that to heart, and I said, Well, I'm I'm gonna give it another try, you know. So anyway, he spoke uh spoke confidence into me as a player, and I took it to heart, and I'll never forget it, actually, but then then 81 rolled around.

Mike Gonzalez 18:39

You know, you're there and and uh uh getting ready to play your first round. I heard you almost missed your your first tea time.

SPEAKER_03 18:45

I absolutely did. My caddy and I completely lost track of time. I was on the putting green and a sports writer, I'll never forget his name, John Whitbrid. He was sitting there and he comes out on the putting green and he says, uh Bill, I believe that uh you're on the T. And I look over there, and absolutely I'm playing with Maurice Bembridge and I think uh Manuel Pinero, I think, were my and they're they were they're about to hit. And by the time I my caddy and I get to the T, they had hit, it was my time to hit off. So golly, I mean, you're talking about good fortune. I mean, uh by all rights, I could have missed it so easy. Had he not come on the putting green, uh, like I said, my caddy and I had completely lost all track of time.

Bruce Devlin 19:33

So just had to add two.

Mike Gonzalez 19:37

You you must have gone off in the morning because the weather turned bad then, didn't it, later that afternoon?

SPEAKER_03 19:41

I'll tell you, very important. I'm gonna say it it it uh over a span of a career, you're gonna draw good sometimes, you're gonna draw bad sometimes. And I definitely had the good draw that week. You uh, you know, Nicholas in the afternoon, I'll never forget. I'd finished my uh round of 71, felt great about it. And then they had uh Hurricane Harvey come in in the afternoon, and I mean it got wild and woolly, one of their great rain squalls, and it got pretty nasty out there. And so I benefited nicely from an early tea time that first day.

Mike Gonzalez 20:19

Bruce, you've talked about that before. It is, it's hitting them hit or miss. Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't.

Bruce Devlin 20:24

Yeah, I I remember playing the open at uh at uh St. Andrews, and I think in the morning uh Tony Lemer had shot like 68 or something, and you know, really nice round, and we went out in the afternoon. And I believe from the afternoon tea times, I think I was low with 74. So just just shows what Bach said about, you know. I mean, he shoots 71 and Jack shoots 83, you know. But what are the odds of that? They're pretty long.

Mike Gonzalez 20:54

Yeah, yeah. And then, you know, of course, Nicholas follow uh follows that up with a with a course record of 66 the next day.

SPEAKER_03 21:00

But uh Boy, I sure Mike, I sure felt bad about that too. Yeah, I'll bet you did. Right, Neville?

Mike Gonzalez 21:08

I sure felt bad about shoot. So you led after uh you're halfway through, you led by one over uh Ben Crenshaw. Um and uh how'd you how'd you feel at that point?

SPEAKER_03 21:21

Oh good. I I was playing well, you know, and beaming with confidence. And uh the third round, Ben and I played together. We were paired together, and uh he just didn't have his stuff. Uh I don't know, he just he didn't play well at all.

Mike Gonzalez 21:34

And uh I played played very well and uh you know I think I shot 66 the uh third round and you went sixty six, sixty seven on uh on the middle middle two rounds, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:47

Sixty seven and uh had built a five shot lead, but uh yeah, it it it was uh uh I I I I was I was on top top of it there.

Mike Gonzalez 21:59

So what's it? Like stepping up to the first T at Royal St. George's on the final day of the Open Championship with a five shot lead.

SPEAKER_03 22:05

Well, I would tell you on the way to the golf course, I absolutely sensed that I felt different. Uh and not uh everybody would. And I had a five-shot lead. Uh, it's mine clearly to win, it's mine clearly clearly to lose. And that's a precarious situation, but I never let anything by five shots. But uh I knew I felt different, but that was okay. You know, I I expected uh, you know, that there was gonna be some adversity. I and not that I'm going over this uh like you know, kind of mentally a mental exercise. I I knew that, you know, heck, it's another round and it's um, you know, it's for all the chips, and I'm just gonna uh continue doing what I've been doing, but uh my uh it just didn't feel quite the same. And I was uh somewhat, I would call it more of a a defensive type mode and very careful, trying to be very careful. I was playing not to make a mistake rather than playing like what I had been the previous three rounds. So that's a bad place to be. And it took me to the seventh hole where uh where that really showed up. Yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 23:19

Yeah, so take us through uh seven, because really, I mean, and and and I think uh in in in retrospect, it became interesting, but it was only interesting for a short time. It may have felt like forever for you. But uh you know, you hit uh you hit a third shot into that seventh green. Why don't you just take us through that shot? What what was going through your mind and what you thought you had to do with the ball?

SPEAKER_03 23:42

I was a par five, and it was the uh arguably the easiest hole of the week, and I'd uh hit a poor layup, which was kind of on the outer lip of the fairway bunker on the left side, and it was a little bit of a funny lie type deal and funny stance, but no, no big deal. I chose the wrong club and knocked it over the grain. Uh chunked, chili dipped.

Mike Gonzalez 24:04

You had to take relief from that little uh scoreboard behind the grain, right?

SPEAKER_03 24:08

I did, which was no big deal and probably benefited me, but hit a, you know, uh just flat out chunked it and then hit a you know oak okay type chip and then missed the putt. So I I I mean it's a double bogey foot before you can even say hello, you know. And and then it's on because I know uh uh a hundred percent that everybody else is back in the tournament. And but um, you know, I'm I I really take great pride in when when I do have opportunities to speak to young players and about adversity and uh experience and being able to handle adversity, you know, you have this great impulse to uh panic, speed up, and you know, blurred thinking, and you know your pace speeds up a hundred miles an hour. But uh I was able to have um drawing experience and able to right the ship and have uh presence of mind, good clear thinking. You know, one hole is not gonna ruin this tournament for you. You've still got a one-shot lead. Uh the next shot is all they're gonna let you play. And I just had a real great presence of mind to slow myself down and to know that the T shot on the eighth hole, maybe the most difficult hole that week, was uh of utmost importance. So I it was kind of uh able to gather my thoughts, but never uh never gave in to the panic or the uh the the uh you know the the desire or the uh potential to speed everything up. So I always remember that very clearly. And I always say it uh when you watch tournaments on the last day, be it major championships or regular tournaments, watch how somebody, adversity can be the best thing that can happen to somebody the last round because it is a wake-up call. You may be gliding through, but a lot of times adversity will snap you into a uh presence of mind that, hmm, uh, I better better kind of lean on uh focusing on what you know this one and uh whatever m else might be influencing you for the day.

Mike Gonzalez 26:23

So anyway, that's a well and and and so at at the time you see you as you said, your your lead goes from four to one. As you were hitting your fifth shot, which would have been that second ship from behind seven green, uh uh uh right at about the same time. I think Raymond DeFloyd and and uh Bernard Longer was playing together. Bernard probably made about a 10 or 12 par saving putt to stay even, as I remember. And uh and Raymond made his third birdie in a row to get to one over. And then you go to the eighth T. And as you said, uh, you know, you you take us through sort of those next three holes. You really did write the shift, didn't you?

SPEAKER_03 27:02

I did. Thank God you don't have a video monitor to see what everybody else is doing. You know, it's just completely unnerving. I can't watch the video replay of the video today because I get to see it now. But uh one of the beauties of the game, but I will tell you, uh, yeah, I I I did again hit a good T-shot on eight, long hold, hit three iron uh to 40 feet, maybe even 50 feet, left uh left that putt three feet short and hit a very good putt that went in for parr. Had I missed that putt, uh boy, um I'm not so sure that my presence of mind would have been so good, you know.

Mike Gonzalez 27:41

So didn't Sevy have a comment about that two putting?

SPEAKER_03 27:44

Two weeks later, he walked, three weeks later at the uh, maybe it was four, uh, when we were at the PGA, he walked up to me and looked at me and shook his finger. Before he said anything, he says, two putt at number eight, you it was what won you the championship. And he was right. Uh I missed that second putt. There's no telling what would happen. But then I birdie hit really uh played two really good holes in a row, row nine and ten, made birdies, hit it, hit it in close on both holes, and and then birdie 12 uh kind of got my feet under me in a good way, and and and then kind of fell into the routine. I felt felt like I uh knew what I was doing from then on.

Mike Gonzalez 28:26

Yeah, so that that traditional uh uh what happens typically on a Sunday at the Open Championship is the they lose control of the crowds on 18 as you're approaching the green. Uh uh you had a well, as as most people do, you had a little bit of a struggle getting through that crowd, didn't you?

SPEAKER_03 28:42

Yeah, it it's wild. It really is. And I mean, uh there are people flailing, running past you, and all they want is a frontline seat, you know, or or position on that line up there, and they don't know uh where you are, what you they're just running. And I can remember getting bumped a couple times, but then I get up to the the the mass of people and start trying to break my way through it, and and not it not not exactly easy, but I'm in a good frame of mind, mind uh certainly. But uh I I eventually get to the front and bust out in a and a Bobby puts his hand in my uh right on me and said, and as if to say, I don't think he said anything, but what are you doing here? Yeah, get back in line. That's right, Bruce. He said, What do where do you think you're going? Uh and I uh I I said, please let me go finish out. I just have to hit two more, three more shots, and I'm okay. Just let me finish the tournament here. But he didn't know he didn't know me from John Smith and the crowds.

Mike Gonzalez 29:46

Yeah, I just got an eight, ten footer I need to I need to make to win the open championship. No big deal. No, no.

SPEAKER_03 29:52

But he is good good humored about it, and we it was fine.

Mike Gonzalez 29:54

Well, you finished it in style because you did leave yourself what, eight, ten feet on that last your approach and and and made it like a true champion did. That what take us through the feeling that was going through at the time.

SPEAKER_03 30:05

Well, it was every every player would tell you they like to finish well, and making a uh a good putt for either part, Bertie, it really does feel nice. But I've often tried to explain it. I think that there is such an overwhelming feeling of relief, but at the same time, there's an overwhelming feeling of exhilaration, and uh there's no wonder that that singular moment is what people hang on for a lifetime to experience, and it was just a um it was just special. Uh the only way I can say it's just a flood of emotion on both sides, relief and exhilaration. And uh it kind of manifested me in getting my ball out of the hole, and I wheeled around and threw one up in the crowd, and uh threw the ball up in the crowd, of which, interesting, two years ago, the fellow that caught that golf ball sent it to me.

Mike Gonzalez 31:02

Is that right? That's great.

SPEAKER_03 31:03

Yeah, he did. He did it. Wilson pro staff, but he he he wrote a nice note, had tracked me down address-wise, and said, uh, I think you'd probably want to uh want this more than I would. But he was the guy that caught my ball at the great, great, great little memory there. But uh man, it's it was it was it was uh it was good good stuff, it's heady. But as soon as I made it, the life is life as I knew it changed right there, yeah.

Bruce Devlin 31:34

Buck the PGA championship, uh you didn't play in it very many times, did you? I think you only played in it seven times. You made the cut five times, one top ten. Yeah. Uh sort of is that a little reminiscent of what was going on at Augusta or uh not really.

SPEAKER_03 31:52

I mean, um uh unlike uh the US Open, unlike uh Augusta, the invitation to uh the PJ, it was just uh winning was just a one-year, you know, it wasn't any different. I mean, it was just an exemption into the so you know how quickly I fell off, I'd remind you that seven years after I won the Open Championship, I left competitive golf. Well, you know, as my as I began to kind of phase out, you know, I d I I just didn't keep qualifying for PGA championships. Uh I I guess my run would have been maybe from 77 to 80 83 or 4 or something, maybe something like that. So uh I uh would I play in seven of them? Is that what what you said? Yes, yeah, seven of them.

Mike Gonzalez 32:44

And uh so uh so Bill, we talked uh we talked uh sort of at the the top of this uh conversation about uh representation IMG. Uh something you said really uh resonated with me uh as it relates to uh what happened to you uh in terms of your mindset. And and I thought what you said was you know, anybody uh still had the opportunity to say no. And what you're talking about was all the opportunities presented to you by IMG and others as a result of your success, particularly after the open championship. Because you have a window of opportunity, I suppose, to sort of capitalize, if you will, on the monetary opportunities that might exist. Um and but I would say too that as a 29-year-old or so at the time, probably really hard to say no.

SPEAKER_03 33:37

Oh, golly. Man, on top of the world, people telling you how great you are, and you've got uh everything to back it up, and uh man, what's not to like, what's not to go for, you know, and you think you're bulletproof, uh no doubt about it. And you never can can imagine getting physically or mentally uh tired, but um or or uh completely uh just at the end of your rope, so to speak. But uh Bruce, you we talked about uh uh Australia earlier. I can remember uh my obligations because of winning down there, I think kind of carried through 1984, 1985. Might have been, I think I would still might have been playing in the Australian Open then or whatever, but I can remember and not that I I was not playing well and kind of really questioning about everything I was doing. And I can remember knowing that at the completion of my final round at the Australian Open, I was flying home. I'd been down there, I think, five weeks for oblig playing obligations and you know, all the other stuff. And I was so um, oh gosh, I mean, I was I was at the end of my wit. I could remember uh waking up in the middle of the night and getting no sleep, but looking at the clock and watching the second hand make its way around the clock. And that uh that that's that not a good place to be. I um I was counting off the seconds and minutes and uh you know I I was I was I was burned out. And so uh anyway, you you I don't know if you experienced much of that, but uh I went for the gusto. Uh, you know, I don't have any regrets about it at all because um I've 14 years was enough for me. I loved it, and uh I was uh very comfortable with leaving the tour after the 98 uh or the 88 uh season was over and on to the next chapter. So uh I never nobody to blame. Uh I did it uh how I thought uh suited me best and made some good choices, bad choices, and we all have to live with all of them at the end. So uh, but it was it was wonderful being a part of it for uh got to experience a lot of from the very bottom to the very top and all the way back down to the bottom. That's a that's a quite a ride.

Mike Gonzalez 36:10

As a as a 29-year-old, if you would have known what you know today as a 69-year-old, what would you have done differently?

SPEAKER_03 36:20

Oh, I I I would tell you as I sit here now, I wouldn't do anything differently because I think I don't sit here right now speaking to you and uh talking about you know how it all worked out. Uh I wouldn't change a thing. I really wouldn't. Now give me an opportunity to change one shot here or there. I might not Which one?

Mike Gonzalez 36:41

Okay, that's the next question. No, but one one career mulligan, where are you gonna take?

SPEAKER_03 36:46

No, that because that changes the whole picture as well. I I'm fortunate. I don't uh I I have wonderful reflection on my uh my time spent in professional golf, everything else. I think it all is uh is meaningful in the life journey. And I wouldn't, I I guarantee I wouldn't wouldn't trade one thing. It uh, you know, if you can't take the hard with the good and everything in between, uh you probably uh live pretty dissatisfied and probably pretty uh unfulfilled. But uh I've had it, I've had it better than most, I promise you.

Bruce Devlin 37:20

You uh you had more more to live, though. You you went a little different way after leaving the tour. Tell us a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_03 37:29

Well, I really attribute kind of the next chapter. I mean I had uh Bruce, I uh I don't even know if you know this, but uh well you probably would because uh uh my involvement uh with my brother-in-law, who you hired at Walden at Lake Conroe, uh through that association, I kind of came in contact with a group in Conroe, Texas that were involved in uh it was a golf course architect, Ron Pritchard.

Bruce Devlin 38:00

And uh He worked for us.

SPEAKER_03 38:02

Yes, he did. So he invited me actually to join him in uh as part of a whether it was a design consultant, whatever, in what he was doing. And I entertained it. I actually traveled with him a little bit. And uh I I I uh my spirit told me that uh, you know, uh I think it's time for you to go home and settle down and what we would call kind of a normal lifestyle and raise a family and uh be still and not not go uh and and start chasing golf course deals and getting involved in away projects, so on and so forth. So that was a little bit of uh uh what happened early in leaving the game. But then I think what you're referring to, I actually went to San Antonio Country Club where we lived in San Antonio was a director of golf. Very humbling experience. Uh God finds some amazing ways to humble you, and that was that was mine. Uh, with all due respect to the club professional business, and um uh heck, the last place, I don't know what Bruce would say to this, but the last place a uh a tour professional who had enjoyed some success, probably the last place that they would want to find themselves would be a club professional at a country club where you're now you're not serving just one yourself or your family. You're you're serving 500 to a thousand people.

Bruce Devlin 39:35

I second that.

SPEAKER_03 39:37

Uh I needed to learn, uh I needed to learn some new lessons, and it was great because uh kind of the short story of it is we raised a family and got tuned into a community, and I learned to be a uh, you know, one that I actually enjoyed serving people and uh you know enjoying that that aspect of it. But that was that was somewhat of the the next chapter of my journey after tour life.

Bruce Devlin 40:05

And you still stayed in the golf course business, though, after the being the director of golf. You you got involved with Briggs Ranch in San Antonio?

SPEAKER_03 40:15

Yeah, thank you for bringing that up. Yeah, uh uh part of a uh partnership group that developed up a Tom Fasio golf course, which was Briggs Ranch Golf Club. Um absolutely a highlight. Uh Bruce, I can just only imagine as many golf courses as you built and were a part of just the pure joy of that uh what that's all about. I experienced it from you know, kind of just at that project from the very first blade of dirt turned to the finished product. And oh, it was it was so good, it was so wonderful, and I loved everything about it. And uh we watched a golf course, uh all the all the business uh aspect of it that we developed it up, and I just really, really think it's one of the special uh little little points along the way of my golf career. Just just great stuff.

Bruce Devlin 41:15

Well, I I know you enjoyed that. And uh you you also uh did a little bit of uh golf development and coaching along the way, too.

SPEAKER_03 41:25

I think that yeah, I did. I uh spent uh six years at the University of Texas at San Antonio involved with the men's and women's golf programs. And um as I sit here and start thinking about all these things, it's that man, I've been on the go. I've done a lot, but uh uh I think all uh all good stuff because uh where we've been, Bruce had the great privilege of playing the game and been a lot involved in a lot of different aspects of it, to have the opportunity to speak to young men and women and coaches and maybe have uh be able to speak a little truth and life and perspective. Uh uh and in some cases maybe even greatness into some of these. That that's high calling. And uh I found a new appreciation and respect for the coaching in uh world, the coaching industry, high calling business. Uh they're able to uh impact lives that other other uh professions just can't do. And I had a little s six years of wonderful uh time with wonderful uh coaches, athletic directors, uh people that were involved in uh you know good good solid stuff. So that was a good little stay for me.

Mike Gonzalez 42:54

So these days I assume you're enjoying being a grandpa.

SPEAKER_03 42:57

Oh yeah. God, that'd be uh I'm glad we'd get to that. Uh both of you know know what that looks like. And uh we have three grandchildren. My two children have uh afforded us three grandchildren. I often say the great reward for having children as grandchildren. Uh now as a young grandfather, but uh oh golly, uh Ellie Sparks Rogers and Boone King Rogers and Ashton Beck or my my grandchildren, and oh golly, we uh we were with them last night. I uh you probably that's part of the circles under my eyes, man. They they ran me hard.

Mike Gonzalez 43:34

But the nice thing about grandchildren is you get to give them back when you're done with them.

Bruce Devlin 43:39

Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Well, and you and you uh you're young enough where you're probably gonna end up like me having great grandchildren. Oh, Bruce Devlin. I got five of them. Five greats? Five greats. Oh my gosh, I love that.

SPEAKER_03 43:56

I see I still think of him as uh, you know, probably about forty five or fifty. He drank that good Australian brew down there, and it's it's it's it's held him in there good.

Mike Gonzalez 44:08

He sure did. He sure did. Well, Bill, it's been an absolute delight to have you join Bruce and I today. I know Bruce has been looking forward to this as well. Um anything else you'd like to say, Bruce, before we close it out?

Bruce Devlin 44:22

Oh, I'd just like to say uh Buck Buck's joined a lot of guys that have been so so nice to me to uh you know to agree to come on to our uh podcast. I uh he mentioned that he thinks that's a good thing. And I might say it wasn't my idea, Buck. It was Mike Gonzalez's idea. He called me uh what three two and a half months ago and said, Hey, I've got an idea. And uh to have people like you on the podcast is a great joy for us, and uh I want to thank you personally, Bucky Boy. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 44:57

There's there's my there's another nickname, Bucky Boy. I wouldn't know anything different from Bruce, but uh I I'd tell you uh is is this golf game has evolved. There's been no finer uh analyst commentator than Bruce Devlin. God Lee, I uh I can remember plenty of uh plenty of your your air time and I don't Mike, you picked the right guy to to tee this up, the this program you've got, this podcast. Uh all the best with it. Uh you know, I just um I'd close if if I had the opportunity just saying, you know, my uh life has been full of good fortune, and I uh give God all the glory for that for certain. My faith has been very important to me, and um he's he's afforded me much and the ability to be involved in this great game. And uh we're at uh we've got uh we don't know how many days we have, but uh it's it's afforded us much opportunity to have uh uh have the ability to maybe make a difference in others' lives. And so for that I'm grateful. And I met a new friend, Mike Gonzalez, today, first rate pro to hang in there and get us teed up today. And Bruce, forever, you uh made a difference in my life. So you and Gloria for sure certain.

Bruce Devlin 46:16

Thank you, Becky Bowie.

Mike Gonzalez 46:17

Bill, thanks for sharing your story with us for the good of the game.

unknown 46:22

Straight down the middle.

Mike Gonzalez 46:23

Thank you for listening to another episode of For the Good of the Game. And please, wherever you listen to your podcast on Apple and Spotify, if you like what you hear, please subscribe, spread the word, and tell your friends until we tee it up again for the good of the game. So long, everybody.

Intro Music 46:50

It went smack down the fairway. When it started just like just smacked off line. It had it for two, but it bounced off nine. My candidates, as long as you're still in the stage, you're okay.