Catherine Lacoste - Part 1 (The Early Years and the Inaugural Espirito Santo)

Intro Music 0:07

Straight down the middle. It went straight down the middle.

Mike Gonzalez 0:13

Then it started to Welcome to another edition of FORE the Good of the Game and Bruce Devlin. We have with us this morning our first guest from France, the "Crocodile Kid".

Bruce Devlin 0:27

That's right. Oh boy, what a story this is. This lady won the 67 U.S. Open Championship as an amateur, and then was the only player I think that's ever held the U.S., British, French, and Spanish amateur championships in the same year. And I believe if my research mine and Mike's research is right, she won 12 straight tournaments from October 68 to October 69. And what a pleasure to uh have Catherine Lacoste is with us this morning. Uh we uh really appreciate you coming on uh FORE the Good of the Game.

Catherine Lacoste 1:12

Thank you very much, Bruce, and thank you, Michael. It's a pleasure to be here and a great honor.

Mike Gonzalez 1:17

Well, we're really looking forward to it, Catherine. It is such a great record uh and uh to think that you uh you stayed a lifelong amateur, which we're gonna talk about because that was a thought process, a conscious thought process and decision you made. As you know, we always start at the beginning, and uh so we're gonna want to know what life was like growing up as a little girl in France. And particularly we're gonna want you to tell us a little bit about your parents as well, because uh they were famous in their own right, weren't they weren't they?

Catherine Lacoste 1:46

I quite understand. I think uh my parents were fantastic people, fantastic parents, uh wonderful father and mother, and uh funnily enough, my mother was the great uh golf champion the British, where the only mother and daughter won it together, so that's a great pleasure. And uh my father was obviously the great Ren Racos, the good tennis player, but um they were just a wonderful people. I was very, very lucky to be the daughter. They taught me many things. Uh my father, funnily enough, was the the technician for the for golf, because uh my mother didn't look about much to technically, but uh my father being a very good technic in tennis, uh I think he he enjoyed Ben Hogan. He l studied lots of books about Ben Hogan and Orson Smith for the putting. That's two books that he really pushed me into, especially the Orden Smith I studied myself, I think helped me very much for my putting. And he always had a little criticism, but a constructive criticism about my my game, about the round that I'd had. I didn't like him being on the course because I felt that he was looking in my swing more than anything else. My mother on Coach was uh lovely and she accompanied me in most of my tourists until I was 21. And uh but I started really very late in comparison to what we start now. I started really having lessons about eight years old, which is normal, but I didn't, I was already still 24 handicapped when I was 13, which is nowadays. I mean, it's not uh it wouldn't be very it'd be very surprising. I started then at 13. I had the luck, uh I had a teacher, Jean Garillard's father, who was Raymond Gaillard, was my teacher. He's a wonderful man, a wonderful teacher. He didn't play much, but he had two sons, obviously Jean Gaillard, who's probably been that the best ever French player, and he was he was his son. He played a lot of my my brothers. They were the same age, my oldest brothers. But I had the lessons with uh Remon Gaillard. Then Jean gave me the my first putter, the butter that accompanied me all my life, which I think is also very, very m rare. I don't know if uh uh somebody has done all his careers. I think there's only one tournament and not a very big tournament that I didn't play without putter. It's a golden goose, a blade putter, uh quite light. And um I I but I was considered to be a good putter, and uh so I think that was a good choice also. He gave me the that putter when I was 13 years old. I was also very lucky at the beginning. He asked me to play in uh what you call now pro am, but it was alliances then. It was playing one amateur and one pro, which is obviously the play with Jean Garriad. Uh every summer we had a series of uh alliances in uh end of August in Burritz and in Saint-Jean-de-Louis, and um he asked me to be his partner. So one day we we played a foursome, and the next other day we played a four-ball. What an opportunity! And I I saw all of the the brothers uh Miguel, Sebastian, and Ángel Miguel, who were fantastic Spanish players at that time. Yes, Pedigallardo, and uh so many as uh Mr. Ballester's uncle, also Ramon Suta, who I came also with him at that time. So it's really historic uh golf at the time. As as you were asking about France and France's golf at that time, there were about 35,000 uh golfers or something like that. There wasn't very many. So nowadays it's so much bigger. And uh but uh it was a good experience in golf and uh very I think uh it wasn't only hitting the ball very far, it was really working at your short game, which I think perhaps is something that has lost the golfer game at the moment. Uh they talk too much about the length and uh the the short game is so important. And I always tell the the the youngsters work twice as long on your short game and on your uh long game. I think at my at my peak I had probably a three hour lesson a week in uh with the my teacher was hitting the big ball the long balls, uh long shots, and uh on the contrary by myself I played uh short game a lot. Yeah. It's a bit different to nowadays, I think, at that point of view.

Mike Gonzalez 6:24

Well, you certainly hear about the long ball and the length uh a lot more, but it uh the the importance of the short game has never gone away, has it?

Catherine Lacoste 6:35

No, that hasn't changed.

Mike Gonzalez 6:38

So you mentioned your your teacher. So Jean was a uh a fine player in his own right, uh, as was his father. Uh Jean won the 1969 French Open, becoming the first fella in a while to win your national open, right?

Catherine Lacoste 6:52

That's that's Jean, but Remorse was his father, who didn't play that much golf.

Mike Gonzalez 6:59

And and Bruce, uh did you know that name, Jean? Uh yes.

Bruce Devlin 7:04

During there were all the names that uh Catherine mentioned were all all players of my era. And uh she um I don't know if Catherine knows, but you know that I won the French Open too.

Catherine Lacoste 7:16

Good?

Bruce Devlin 7:19

Yeah, yeah, it was a lot uh it's uh it's all as a matter of fact, my wife was the biggest French fan, I think, of anybody that I've ever known. She loved Paris. She loved to go to Paris. I don't, you know, I wasn't personally, I was more of a more of a Rome guy, but she loved Paris.

Catherine Lacoste 7:39

I'm not surprised. It's a lovely town. Which is better than now than nowadays. Nowadays I'm not sure it's quite as much fun, but uh at that time it's uh I I spent my first 25 years of my life in Paris. So I was Parisian also.

Mike Gonzalez 7:55

Yeah, yeah. You you mentioned uh Sevi's uncle Ramon. I remember meeting him at uh Santander, or not at Santander, but Pedrenia Golf Club. Uh several years ago I stopped by and and just said hello. I've got a picture with him uh in his you know little Spanish beret, if you will. And uh he was quite a player in his own right, wasn't he?

Catherine Lacoste 8:17

Uh he certainly was. He I think they I they don't think they had much contact, but they obviously said something at Pedrenia, the the the course. I had uh uh experience in Pedrenia quite early. I played with Manolo Ballesteros, who was uh one of the big brothers of Severiano, and uh I think I just won the US Open, and um he asked me to come over and play with him hand to hand from the back tees, and I did that, and I think we shared in the last hall. So I was very happy with that. But Seve was only about nine years old, so it was very early. After that, I knew Seve very, very well. In fact, I was at the the basis of uh making at the Spanish Open, the Peugeot, Peugeot Spanish Open for about eight or nine years old, because uh at that time, about in the 80s, I met the publicity people from uh Peugeot, and um he he said he wanted Severiano to be part of his time where he was really playing so well, and that part of the publicity of the Peugeot Lacoste, which is a uh car that was uh together with Lacoste they they built the Peugeot, which is a 204 and a 205. And um they asked me, and I said, okay, well, we'll call uh Seven Ano's manager, and we got to him, and just uh Benson Hedges had just uh cancelled out of sponsoring the Spanish Open. So uh they said, Well, do you want to sponsor the tournament? And uh that went on for eight or nine years. So it was I was really made of that. Seve, I I really I was friends with. He was a fantastic man, uh such a genius, because uh I remember just sitting beside him when he behind him when he was practicing and just watching. It was just magical. And uh so I played a few programs with him, which was great fun, obviously.

Mike Gonzalez 10:11

Yeah, well, as you can imagine, his name's come up a lot on our program, particularly as we talked to some of the men champions, and they all marveled at his mastery around the greens. Oh yeah.

Catherine Lacoste 10:20

Sure, sure. I remember we had uh a line holes, uh they did a publicity, nine holes to take a lot of pictures with uh because of this uh uh uh car that we had between Lacosta and Peugeot. And I remember him giving me a few tips in a bunker. I got some pictures on uh then fact on my webpage, as you probably saw, and that's uh it's rather fun. And I mean, it was uh magic uh to be to be his friend and just peaceful soul. Uh in fact, I can be proud of it, but then Santander one day he was playing and he was having trouble with putting. And I went on the putting green and tried to give him a few tips. I don't know if it they were worth something or not. And he was very jealous of me because he'd never won the open. So he said, Oh, you won the open, I haven't been able to win it. It was funny. In fact, in the the book uh that they wrote about me in the French Federation, I have uh the first page is a uh uh mention of him him saying that I have the genius of the game, which is a very good compliment coming from somebody like Severiano Bayesteros.

Mike Gonzalez 11:26

Yeah. I was gonna ask you which of your parents was most influential in your game, but it sounds like you extract a little bit of everything from both of them. Yeah.

Catherine Lacoste 11:37

Yes, I think my father certainly, technically, certainly my father, because with Remoga Hayad, they they talked a lot together. And uh they my father directly practically never um said anything directly to me, not to complicate things. And um, so it's a sort of translate. In fact, there's a I think on my webpage there's some pictures of uh uh comments of my father on a uh sort of transplant on some some pictures of me for golf uh swings, and the comments of my father uh talking about it. He he certainly was a wonderful technician. Uh there's there's no doubt that he he did other things incredible with the f obviously the shirt and the the first metal racket uh and tennis. I mean, that's the first one he that was uh on in the scene was his uh his that was after that given uh to uh sold to uh Wilson with which uh Mackin um Connors Connors probably used it. Connors plays uh he won 120 tournaments with uh that racket.

Mike Gonzalez 12:47

Yeah, was that the T2000?

Catherine Lacoste 12:50

T2000, 3000, 4000.

Mike Gonzalez 12:52

Gotcha.

Catherine Lacoste 12:53

That was based on the invention of my father and uh his first red metal racket.

Mike Gonzalez 12:58

Yeah, just for our listeners, uh Renee Lacoste uh was a seven-time Grand Slam winner, winning the French Open three times, the U.S. Open a couple of times, I think, and the Wimbledon twice as well, right?

Catherine Lacoste 13:10

And Davis Cup. Davis Cup for the four Musketeers.

Mike Gonzalez 13:14

That's right. And and I I think uh our younger listeners probably forget because Davis Cup back in the day was a much bigger deal than it than it is nowadays, wouldn't you agree?

Catherine Lacoste 13:24

I don't know.

Mike Gonzalez 13:24

Perhaps I don't hear much about the Davis Cup as I did when I was younger. Let's just put it that way.

Catherine Lacoste 13:29

Perhaps, perhaps.

Mike Gonzalez 13:30

Yeah. But it was a great, great competition.

Catherine Lacoste 13:33

In fact, when you say we start from the beginning, uh I'd say it when you talk about my game. Uh there's I think one sentence missing. My first very big tournament I won was the World Team Championship. Because uh team who won it, but I'm first individual there also, with Carol Sorensen. I was 19 years old only. I think that's the really big, but there was some obviously some juniors before.

Bruce Devlin 13:59

Yeah, that was in 64, right? 1964. Yeah.

Catherine Lacoste 14:03

Exactly. In fact, that's where I started my adventure in the United States because uh there was uh Mrs. Prunery who was captain of the American team, a lovely lady, and she talked to my parents let's say after that tournament, she said, told them you've got to take her to the US Open. And uh that's how why I think certainly it was provoked by this conversation that my parents took me over to the United States. I played the first one in 1565 in Atlantic City, which is a wonderful memory. I finished 14th, which wasn't bad at 20 years old. And um then I went over with them, in fact, in a in a wonderful trip because it was in on the Thorse, which is uh one of the big cruise boats which are so wonderful, did New York, uh Paris, New York, which was incredible, and then uh played in Pennsylvania one Lady Calling Open. It was on my birthday that year in 65, and then went over to Atlantic City. I met an incredible gentleman who's called Stan Judious, who was uh director at Atlantic City at that time. He was very, very kind, he was sweet with me, he helped me and some tips. We played on the course together, it was fun. And then uh so I finished 14th and then came back two years later.

Mike Gonzalez 15:23

Yeah, so um you've just taken our listeners from a 23 handicap to playing in the US Open. Well, that's quite a leap.

Catherine Lacoste 15:35

It's practically that because I was uh I used to play only in the holidays, and uh between uh 14 and 16, let's say. 16 I played a bit more in Paris and then went down little by little. And um I don't know, I was uh still six handicapped sixteen. And then uh little by little I went down to to two and when I I'd won I won the French uh junior tournament, which was uh also a good, very good tournament. I think all the good ladies at that time as juniors played the the the in Saint-Cloud, we had the uh coupessement, which is uh it still still goes on at that time in Saint Cloud in spring at Easter time.

Mike Gonzalez 16:23

So okay, so you're you're you you're getting down to a two now, so now you're ready to play some competitions.

Catherine Lacoste 16:27

But well, uh then then what happened? I had fantastic players in France at that time because we had Brigitte Vango and Claudine Cross, who were great champions. They came over to the States, they didn't win, but they they very, very good tournament. Brigitte won three times the British. So it certainly was uh already a criteria. And uh in fact, at the time when I was 19, uh they they hesitated if it was the first world team championship, they hesitated to take us the third player. The in fact, the first wife of Jean Garde was Odile Semling, and uh she was playing very well, a bit older than I was, and they made us play uh a match between us to know who would be the third, and I I won it, so I played. And um, so um that's the first really of a very very international career, but it uh it didn't it did certainly it sounds as you say, it's very quick, but uh I started late, really.

Mike Gonzalez 17:27

So yeah. Well I want to I do want to take our listeners back to that uh inaugural world team championship that you referred to in 1964, the Espirito Santo. Uh a lot of parallels with uh Bruce Devlin's experience, so I want to come back to that. But uh as you talk about your game developing and you talked about all this time you spent on the short game, I understand you enjoyed the longer clubs as well.

Catherine Lacoste 17:52

Yes, and you I'm sure you're talking about my one hand. I enjoyed very much. We didn't I didn't like a five-wood, and uh I had the I think one, two, I had the I had a two-wood and I had a three-wood, but um probably a four wood, five wood appeared later in my career. And um I didn't I've never had a the the the seven, seven wood, uh six wood, uh I don't know what to have now. I used to use the one, two, three iron and like them. I thought they were very effective, very good in the wind, and um very precise. And I don't know, I I always like very much the one on. In fact, in the the British I played in '69, um the for the on the T's, I played quite a few one arms on the T because there was a bit of wind, and uh it was much much more effective. It uh portrush I played. And um I mean it I thought it was very much more effective than a driver.

Mike Gonzalez 18:57

Yeah. Very good. And very hard to find a one-iron these days. Most players, modern players, don't don't even carry a two or three iron anymore, hardly, do they?

Catherine Lacoste 19:06

Quite agree.

Mike Gonzalez 19:07

Yeah, quite agree. Especially the ladies. They the ladies love the the hybrids. With the advent of the hybrids, it really became an important tool for them. I know an old man who likes the hybrids too.

Catherine Lacoste 19:20

Probably, probably if I played golf now, I'd like them also. One an certainly probably had to be quite strong uh hand in the hands. I wasn't very tall, but uh I had a very upright swing also, probably helped also. Yeah. And um, but even I mean, in the uh I thought it was a very ineffective uh club.

Mike Gonzalez 19:45

Well, let's let's go to that uh October of 1964 competition you referred to. Uh just by circumstance, I suppose, it it happened in your backyard, which was kind of neat as well. So this is the 1964 Spiritu Santo. As I mentioned, it was the inaugural world uh team championship that was sort of patterned after the the Eisenhower trophy, which uh started at the old course in 1958. And uh so we'll talk about that competition, but I want you to know, Catherine, that the other fellow on the screen there played in that inaugural men's event in 1958.

Catherine Lacoste 20:21

That's funny.

Bruce Devlin 20:23

Yeah. And and and and he was fortunate enough to be the low amateur, and the Australian team beat the Americans in the playoffs. So yeah, it was a great memory.

Mike Gonzalez 20:37

So you two share the bragging rights. You both played in the first world team championship. You both won it as individuals and as teams. That's kind of neat.

Catherine Lacoste 20:47

Good, good, fantastic.

Mike Gonzalez 20:50

Yeah, and of course that was that was Bruce's first uh opportunity to venture away from home in a big way from Australia, right, Bruce? Yeah, first first trip, yeah.

Catherine Lacoste 21:01

Which was I was closer home, that's certainly certainly than you.

Bruce Devlin 21:06

Yeah.

Catherine Lacoste 21:08

But it was very exciting that tournament, because I mean it was really when France, in any case, as I say, there were about 35,000 uh players in France. So to have it in France, Lally Sagar, or Laly Saint-Sauveur, who won also the British uh quite a few years before, um she really made it up and made uh talked a lot to the Americans to have it done and uh made that tournament up and with uh the lovely cup that we had from the family Espedito Santo, and uh I mean it's uh it was an incredible event because it's really the start of French golf to go really forward. Obviously Brigitte Vargo was very good. But um she won in I think in 64, no, 63 I think she won the first time. But there were there were two very good players. Claudine and uh Brigitte were fantastic players. And I was I was five years younger, so it wasn't easy to to get through, but uh I managed it funny because I used to play the French tournament and uh after about 13 times losing against Brigitte in the French tournament, I came up to In Maufontaine and uh uh she came up to the team and said, You know, you never won against me. She was she was a bit she was a bit tough also. I said, Yeah, I said, okay, yes, but um I won that that time, she never won again.

Mike Gonzalez 22:32

Yeah, I was gonna say her uh both of those names, your teammates are gonna come up again in future competitions where you prevailed. Um probably a good time to to talk about um about uh French golf and particular some of the great French players. So, you know, I think for the typical uh person state side, um they probably don't know a lot of the names, particularly on the amateur side. There's some professionals that they may know, but uh uh you know I'll start on the men's side and then we'll come to the to the ladies. On the men's side, I think most people know the tragic story of Jean Vandeveld at Carnousty in 1999, correct?

Catherine Lacoste 23:11

Yeah, correct. But that's that's much later.

Mike Gonzalez 23:14

It is much later.

Catherine Lacoste 23:20

I think the women have always been in comparison better than the better than the men. Men in uh the the first women, obviously was my mother, who was the one first one to win the the British 1927. She was only nineteen and she'd won the girls before. And uh men apart from that, I mean, apart from the the very, very far we met and things like that, which was much further, there were not very many French very good players, uh until perhaps Jean Van Veld and uh people like that. And it's it's a cool because a lot of French with uh Patricia and Marie Pali, which obviously won the one of the majors, and uh now we have Clean Bouttier, which is incredible, and they're quite quite a few good good ladies. Men uh the not many that the one one the British or the uh the US uh in the US uh the uh I think the women have done a better job.

Mike Gonzalez 24:26

Yeah, so uh uh there was only one man, I think one French male that has won a major championship, that being uh Arnal Massey in uh in the Open Championship in 1907, right?

Catherine Lacoste 24:39

Funnily enough, Massey is another story also which interests you. Massey, my mother, knew very well, and uh he was uh in the inauguration of uh Chantaco Golf Club, which was made by my grandfather in in France, in Saint-Jean de Luz, near Bioretz, and uh Massi was there in the inauguration, which is uh so I mean they I never knew him, but uh my mother knew him well, and it was uh another.

Mike Gonzalez 25:09

And that was an interesting leaderboard back in in 1907. Uh Ted Ray, Harry Varden. There were some great names uh uh on that leaderboard. I think J. H. Taylor might have been on that leaderboard, but uh he was the only male. Uh as you said, on the on the on the women's side, uh you kicked it off in 1967. We'll come to that. And then uh and then Patricia won uh the the 2003 uh uh British uh sorry, right, the dinosaur dinosaur. Uh and then Celine, of course, uh this year winning the Avion, right?

Catherine Lacoste 25:40

But I think you got a name also on Marie Pali, who was a very, very good French player. She went over to play in the PGA at a time which was very difficult. And uh I think she did a wonderful job to put up the French name in the United States. She didn't win probably a major, but she was a very, very good player, still very well known as she still lives over there, and uh uh I think she's done a wonderful job.

Mike Gonzalez 26:07

Well, Massey, after winning that 1907 open, probably retired because uh he took home 50 pounds for first prize.

Catherine Lacoste 26:17

But you know how much I would have I would have had as a prize if I'd been a pro in 1967, if you got that data.

Mike Gonzalez 26:25

Yes, which is you know, if you think about it, in 1959 when Gary Plair won the Open Championship, the first prize was a thousand pounds. Yeah. In 19 let's call it 70, might have been 68, uh, but at the same time, open championship paid 12,000 pounds. Not much. Not much.

Bruce Devlin 26:53

No.

Catherine Lacoste 26:53

No.

Bruce Devlin 26:54

No, no, no. That was one of the reasons why I think the American players uh didn't didn't really go to Arnold, I guess, was the guy that really got the American players to go play in the British Open or now called the the Open. Uh but uh yeah, you know, it wasn't uh it wasn't official money either back in those days. Uh sure now it is. Yeah, yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 27:18

He he he sort of uh oh, I don't know, uh tried to get to their emotional side, like hey, we have a responsibility here for for golf to come and compete in this event. It's not about the money for this particular instance. Sure. It's about it's about uh making an appearance and and so forth. And then once Palmer won, I think the popularity increased a little bit. Yeah.

Catherine Lacoste 27:40

I think there's only there's certainly there's much more for the open, obviously, in the US Open, uh the what it represents much more than money, even nowadays, which is such a fortune, obviously. But uh for very long, I think it's uh to have won the US Open is marked on personally my life, obviously. Um when I say I won the US Open, even somebody who doesn't play golf. They understand what it is, and uh they I think it's uh it's sort of a title practically.

Mike Gonzalez 28:14

Yeah, yeah. So uh let's forward then from Adspirit Tusantu to something you've already mentioned, which is uh being able to compete in the 1965 Women's U.S. Open at Atlantic City. So you would have just turned 20 years old, I guess. And you'd mentioned that there was a USG committee woman, I think she was also team captain for the U.S. that you had had a chance to meet that sort of uh Mrs.

Catherine Lacoste 28:37

Prunery.

Mike Gonzalez 28:38

Yes, encouraged you to come and give this a go, huh?

Catherine Lacoste 28:41

Yes, certainly. And uh after I won the US Open, in fact they were sweet because they invited me uh the week after to go to Montreal, to Boston first. I played in the country club at Boston. They made me play and then took me to the Montreal uh Expo uh with them. And uh I mean they were friends. I remember making uh uh uh scrambled eggs for them at the breakfast to at this the house. They were really lovely people, both of them Henry, Henry his his uh uh husband and Mildred, who was really fantastic people, very, very lovely. And uh they they didn't come, I think, to the open, even though they encouraged me to come because they were frightened that put me nervous. Oh I think that's typical, particularly of parents. You know, they don't want to jinx you, they're hiding behind trees and yeah, but they weren't my parents, but they're you know, they're just sort of sweet and uh very, very lovely people.

Mike Gonzalez 29:42

Yeah, so as you mentioned, you came over on the big boat, you came with escorts, your family came with you, and and uh uh tell us about what it was like being a 20-year-old being thrust into that environment with all these I I don't know, did you know a lot about these players at the time?

Catherine Lacoste 29:58

Not much, obviously. Uh you say escort, it uh it makes me l smile because my parents were well, they just enjoyed seeing me play and everything. They're not they weren't really my escort. It changes it's so different to the time now when you really have an escort at the time. It could be three, four, five people looking after you. I especially remember the year that I won the US Open. I'd asked in March, we started planning the the tournament, and uh I said to my parents they wanted to come with me. I said, I'd like I'm 21 and I'm going to be 22. Uh like a little independent uh person. I said, I'd like to go by myself. And uh they said, well, okay. And uh I really did go by myself because um I went uh I took the plane to to uh uh John Fidel Kennedy, then by myself with my suitcase, my golf bag, and then took a um helicopter to go to the other one, uh La Guardia, and then from there took another little plane to to Virginia because it was played in hot springs. And um I d I couldn't uh rent a car because if I wasn't 22 I couldn't rent a car at that time. And I came up and I was a bit ahead of time, and I went to see the the uh pro uh that was there, and I asked him if I could play and uh if by any chance, if he was free, if he could come and play with me, and he played with me 18 holes. Uh we found a local caddy, which is Calvin Lloyd, which is a wonderful caddy, and uh went around the course. It seems so different to what uh happens nowadays. I didn't uh have uh my own caddy, I didn't have a coach, I didn't have uh um what all the companies that that uh players nowadays. And even when I in fact I made great friends with uh a family that was after that, I've been still I still have friends with them, the Prestons, who were just having a holiday in a motel at the same time, and there were three children, I've been in the swimming pool with them. Exactly, it's so different to what we do nowadays. And um that was the way. Uh funnily enough, another little anecdote that you'd you'd enjoy. Uh two weeks before I played the British. In fact, I played six times the British, and my mother came every time before being able to win it. And um I played the the one that was in uh Wales. And uh so uh I played it, I won the um qualifying. It was uh the first those 36 hole qualifying and then match play, and I was qualified first, and I had to play with uh number 32, who is another French girl, and uh she beat me in in 18 holes. I think everything that's gonna happen, obviously. And my mother had a wonderful say that time. It might be a blessing in disguise. She obviously didn't know the future, but it's she was uh brought up in England and she had the it's a very very British comment of a blessing in disguise. And uh it was a blessing in disguise because I didn't tie out in the six rounds of match play, and I went a bit earlier to the United States and went on to win the US Open.

Mike Gonzalez 33:25

Thank you for listening to another episode of 4 The Good of the Game. And please, wherever you listen to your podcast on Apple and Spotify, if you like what you hear, please subscribe, spread the word, and tell your friends until we tee it up again for the good of the game.

Intro Music 33:43

So long, everybody It went smack down the fairway. It had it for two, but it must offline as long as you're still in the stage you're okay.