Corey Pavin - Part 1 (The Early Years)

Mike Gonzalez 0:00

Just a quick disclaimer before we start this episode, we weren't able to achieve the typical audio quality that we'd like to achieve with our episodes. I think you'll find that this is listenable, but just wanted to give you a heads up.

Intro Music 0:27

It went straight down the middle. Then it started to fall.

Mike Gonzalez 0:33

Well, welcome to another edition of FORE the Good of the Game and Bruce Devlin. We've got two firsts today with this guest of ours. First of all, we've never had a guest that have played the broken toe card with us. Oh that's true. And secondly, this is the first guest we've had that I've actually played 18 holes of golf with. He may not remember, but I have. So uh why don't you tell our audience a little bit about who we've got today?

Bruce Devlin 0:59

Well, he's got quite a career. Uh 28 victories uh across the world, actually. He's played in a lot of different continents. Uh 15 PGA tour wins. And he is he is recognized for one great golf shot that he hit back in 1995. He hit a forward into the 18th hole at Shinnocock to win the open. And of course, now everybody knows who's with us. Corey Pavin, thanks for joining us today. It really is a pleasure to have you with us.

Corey Pavin 1:31

Uh it's my pleasure. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.

Mike Gonzalez 1:34

Corey, thanks for taking the time. And um, as we've talked about, we're here to tell your story. And of course, that starts at the very beginning. Uh, our understanding is you were born in Oxnard, California. Why don't you just tell us about early life in California as you young man?

Corey Pavin 1:50

Well, um, yeah, I grew up uh, as you said, uh in Oxnard, uh born in 1959. And the um, you know, the interesting thing, I guess, about Oxnard is there's not a golf course in the city of Oxnard, or at least there wasn't when I was born. There is now, but um, you know, I grew up and I I actually started playing golf at um a golf course called Las Poces Country Club in Camarillo, California, which is a adjacent city. Um, but you know, I I just kind of grew up uh you know a normal childhood, I guess. Uh, you know, Oxnard's kind of an area where they grow a lot of crops, a lot of strawberries. Um, so it was kind of more of an agricultural little city. And, you know, my parents were members at uh at at Las Poces at this country club, uh little small country club. I have two older brothers. And at a pretty early age, I was six when I started to play. I was just kind of hanging around with my brothers, and I just kind of fell in love with golf right from the get-go. Um, I think I would have rather have been a basketball player, but it wasn't in the physical cards for me. So uh golf ended up uh being what I really fell in love with, and I really enjoyed playing golf a lot.

Mike Gonzalez 3:05

Did you play other sports as a kid as well, though?

Corey Pavin 3:08

I did. I played a little bit of basketball um until I got to an age where I just wasn't big enough anymore. So I played uh through junior high school, so through eighth grade, I played. Uh we had uh what we call a C team, which is by size. So obviously the A team were the big guys, and uh the C team I think was a certain, I can't remember the height, but you couldn't be over a certain height. Um so I played on that team and it was a lot of fun. I enjoyed it. Um I was kind of probably what you expect out of a basketball player for me. You know, I was annoying to uh defensively and quick and you know, kind of run out and cherry pick and try to get some layups on fast breaks. Um that was kind of my the way I played basketball, I guess.

Mike Gonzalez 3:54

Well, yeah, as as our listeners uh certainly understand, golf is a very solitary game. And we've heard from a lot of guys that they just sort of gravitated toward the game because they enjoyed the reliance on themselves, spending time uh just inside their own head. Um as recently as our talk with Hale Irwin, he was talking about yeah, you play baseball and somebody's got to pitch the ball to you, or you've got to have somebody throw it to you to play catch. If you play basketball, you can't make a basket unless somebody throws you a pass. You're always reliant on reliant on a team member, but in golf, it's all on you.

Corey Pavin 4:27

Yeah, I mean that's one thing I love about it. Uh there's uh you can't blame anybody else. It's it's uh what you do on the golf course is is what you get. So uh you can't lean on anybody uh as well. So it's it's nice that it's all on on me anyway, or as a golfer it is. Um you know, I enjoyed that. I I you know I kind of grew up, I was kind of uh introverted a little bit. So I kind of enjoyed golf. It was a nice thing for me. I enjoyed the solitude and uh, you know, rely on myself to practice and and get better. You know, I just kind of enjoyed that. You know, we had groups of people that we played with uh at the course where I grew up. We had uh you know little junior tournaments, you know, on in the summer on the you know, Saturday, Sunday morning, or you know, every morning it seemed like we have like a little tournament. So we had our little group of people that that we'd hang around. But um, all in all, you're right. It's a solitary game uh and you have to work things out for yourself. And it's a challenge, obviously, to figure out how to get things done. Uh you know, still when I'm a 62 now, I'm still working on trying to figure out how to get things done. It's it's a never-ending process, this game.

Bruce Devlin 5:41

So, Corey, in in those early days, was there a specific individual who gave you any basic fundamentals or you know, anybody that you could say that was the guy that you sort of listened to most?

Corey Pavin 5:56

Well, early on there there wasn't. You know, the head pro at at where I grew up uh at when I was very young was a guy named John Hardy. And he would do some group lessons maybe with juniors in the summer, uh, but at nothing formal. It was just kind of uh, you know, 15, 20 of us out there, and he'd give us a little tip about you know this, that, or the other thing. Uh the only the first time I really had formal teaching was when I was 15. Uh a gentleman by the name of Bruce Hamilton, who has since passed. Uh he was my teacher. He was an assistant pro at Osposis. Um he's only seven years older than me. Uh, so he was 22 when I started taking lessons from him. And all the way through until he passed away in 2011, uh, he taught me. So we had a long-standing relationship. Uh so when I went to him when I was 15, I was about a I think I was a seven handicap uh at that point. Yeah, and about two months later, I was a two-handicap. So uh great improvement very quickly. Uh and we just developed a great rapport, and as I said, it was so many years uh he taught me, and um, you know, I it got to the point where I could just call him on the phone and and you know, when I was a pro and say, you know, my shots are going, you know, they're doing this, you know, they're going to the right, you know, or I'm hooking it too much, or whatever it is. And he would be able to give me a lesson just by listening to me explaining what my ball flight was. So that's how how much he, you know, how much we were connected for sure.

Mike Gonzalez 7:32

So did you play in high school, I assume?

Corey Pavin 7:35

I did. I played in high school, um, snart high school yellow jackets. Uh my middle brother, we played on the same team together, and uh he wasn't very happy about it, but when I was a sophomore and he was a senior, uh, I started beating him kind of semi-regularly. And uh, but it was fun, it was a good rivalry. It wasn't like, you know, he wasn't mad at me. We had a decent team. Um, you know, it was fun to play, and it was nice to be in a team atmosphere like that. Uh, it doesn't happen much, as we were saying earlier with golf. So uh it was nice to to have that type of camaraderie, uh, which obviously led into college and and team play in college as well. I enjoyed high school golf, uh, enjoyed college golf as well. It's uh it was fun to hang around with groups of people like that.

Mike Gonzalez 8:26

Uh so uh you were working with Bruce pretty much through your whole high school career then, I suppose, huh? As your game developed uh uh approaching graduation where you started giving some consideration of maybe playing this game collegiately.

Corey Pavin 8:39

Yeah, I think yeah, when I was 15, I was probably uh I guess I might have been a sophomore in high school when Bruce and I connected up, or maybe between my freshman and sophomore year of high school. Played a lot of junior tournaments in Southern California. We had a big Southern California Junior Golf Association. Uh but there wasn't uh you know the AJGA at that point. So we kind of had local tournaments. Uh there was the junior world championship, which was kind of the big um international junior event. Um and you know, there was a US junior amateur uh for 17 and younger uh that the USGA runs. Uh but those two tournaments were really kind of the only big uh junior events, and uh I did well when I was 15, 16, you know, I was pretty good. Uh when I was 16, I was extremely frustrated with golf. I felt like I was playing pretty well, uh, but I wasn't getting it done. You know, I was finishing fourth, fifth, seventh in all these junior tournaments, and I felt like I was good enough to do better. Uh and I nearly quit playing golf. I was so frustrated. Uh there was a that's the the bad side of being competitive, I guess, is you get frustrated pretty easily. Uh, but my father, I remember him talking me into keeping at it and said, you know, it'll turn around, just keep at it, you'll figure it out. And so I did not quit, obviously. And when I was 17, I had a kind of a breakout summer as a junior golfer. Uh, I won the junior world championship. I went to the semifinals with a U.S. junior amateur. Uh but at the same time, it was my transition summer from high school to college, and I hadn't really done much. You know, people had already given their scholarships out, the coaches. So I ended up with a couple offers, uh, and one of them was UCLA. Uh they offered me a full ride, which was about 60 miles from home, uh, far enough away to be away, but close enough to be close enough. So I accepted the scholarship and really enjoyed my time at UCLA. Really met a lot of people country club, which I'm sure you both are very familiar with. Uh it's a fantastic uh country club, uh, really nice golf course and an incredible membership, uh, all sorts of people and all sorts of walks of life. Uh so I met a lot of people there when I was in college, uh, which is really kind of a fascinating place to hang out.

Mike Gonzalez 11:16

Sure is, yeah. Lots to learn in places like that. Uh let's go back to the the the moment of perhaps leaving the game, because Bruce, uh we've heard other guests talk about that. That that probably, Corey, wasn't your first or last moment of self-doubt. Uh and Bruce, uh you had those moments as well, didn't you?

Bruce Devlin 11:34

Oh, absolutely. There's no doubt about it. I I think we I think anybody that uh that gets to the professional level uh doesn't always doesn't always go straight up. It's you know there's uh it's sort of like a stair step career where you th you think you know a hell of a lot about the game and you're about to kick somebody's butt and then all of a sudden you get yours kicked. I think that's what happens. But uh no, I think everybody goes through it.

Corey Pavin 12:01

Yeah, I think I think you get to you know, there's certain times when you just feel like, how can I ever play poorly? And and you get maybe a little overconfident, and then you know your legs kind of get swept out from under you, and all of a sudden you're playing poorly, and it's like, oh my gosh, what happened? Um, and it it happens to everybody. I mean, there's nobody that's played a whole career and hasn't had down times. Uh, you know, maybe some have less downtimes or or not as bad down times, but everybody's gonna have them, and you have to fight through them and persevere through them uh any way you can. And whether it's doing it internally or externally, there's you've got to figure out a way to make it work.

Mike Gonzalez 12:39

So why don't you take us through a few of the highlights um of your collegiate uh career in terms of events you were able to participate in and have some success in?

Corey Pavin 12:50

Well, um my first year in college, I thought I was just gonna kill it. And my best finish was near the end of my freshman year. I finished fifth at the Sun Devil Classic, which was a pretty big tournament. Uh, but that was my best finish as a freshman. I came back my sophomore year, and in the fall, uh I won one of the first tournaments. Uh, and we had a really good team, and our team won the tournament too, uh, which as I said was a very big event. Um, and things just the floodgates kind of opened for me after that. Um, I won six times my sophomore year uh in college. Uh just had a a great year. Uh it was a lot of fun. Our team was really good. Uh unfortunately, we actually never really did very well in in the uh NCAA tournament. I think sixth was the best we ever finished when I was at school, which was disappointing because we were you know number one, number two team in the country for for a few years. Uh, but you know, you only get four shots at it, and that's what it was. Uh my junior year was a very tough year for me, a letdown year I'd say. Um felt like, you know, maybe I should turn pro. You know, I've I was first team All-American and kind of I felt like I reached sort of the peak of college golf. Uh so I had a tough year. Uh I I did not win. Uh I was going to turn pro after my junior year of college. Uh got talked out of it, which was a very good decision in hindsight. Uh that I was talked out of it. Uh so I went back to school, red-shirted my fourth year, uh just tried to study as much as I could and uh get my eligibility back. And then my fifth year, I had a really good year. I think I won five times uh my senior year again as first team All American. Um and then it was time to turn pro after that. Uh but yeah, my UCLA I learned a lot. Uh again, you know, ups and downs and uh trying to figure things out uh was probably one of the best things that ever happened to me, you know, having that down year. Uh, because you learn, you learn from that stuff. You learn from winning too. Uh but it seems like it's an easier lesson to learn when you're when you're not uh playing as well. I turned pro in September of 1982 after my last year as an amateur. Um and I guess during all this college time, you know, the a a gigantic highlight for me and and one of the reasons I was glad I stayed uh as an amateur uh was I won the Southwest Amateur Tournament, which was um what was it called?

Mike Gonzalez 15:35

North North and South Amateur at Pinehurst. North and South.

Corey Pavin 15:38

Thank you. Thank you. Yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 15:40

I think you were there. I wasn't.

Corey Pavin 15:41

Yeah, I was like, no, that's not right. Yeah, I did win the Southwestern Amateur, but the uh but the North South was the big win, you know, at Pinehurst. And uh that got me on to the Walker Cup team. Uh so I played in the Walker Cup team in 1981. Uh one of the best places you could ever play golf is at Cypress Point. So being a California boy growing up, playing Cypress Point in the Walker Cup was incredible. Uh it was amazing to see the golf course set up like a mini US Open. Uh so it was that was an amazing highlight uh of my amateur time.

Mike Gonzalez 16:17

And some good teammates too, with Hal Sutton, Jody Mudd, and then uh uh Mr. St. Louis Jim Holgreve.

Corey Pavin 16:23

Yeah, Holgreave. Uh there's a lot of names on that team that that people would remember. The heck of the team.

Mike Gonzalez 16:33

And what a venue, too, for uh uh I don't know if you had had a chance before to play Cypress Point. I mean, growing up on Bel Air wasn't a wasn't a bad deal, but uh Cyprus is about as good as it gets.

Corey Pavin 16:44

Yeah, we we had probably the best state amateur uh in uh in the United States than California as we played when I when I was playing the state amateur, we would play Pebble Beach and Cypress Point uh two rounds of stroke play. They'd make a cut, and then you'd play a third round of stroke play at Pebble Beach, and then they'd cut it to 32 players, and then play match play at Pebble Beach. So it's not a bad state amateur.

Mike Gonzalez 17:10

Tough that's tough duty.

Corey Pavin 17:12

Yeah, I'd had experience at Cypress Point before, and uh it's to this day that you know I put Pebble in Cypress as my my number one and my number one favorite golf courses. They're tied.

Bruce Devlin 17:23

Yeah, they're they're pretty good, aren't they?

Mike Gonzalez 17:26

So tell us a little about who besides Corey Paven was involved in making that decision to turn professional.

Corey Pavin 17:33

Well, my my parents, uh Bruce Hamilton, my teacher, and Eddie Marens, who's who was the head pro at Bel Air, but also our golf coach at UCLA. Uh so we all had a sit-down meeting uh after my junior year. You know, I was already gung-ho to turn pro. And uh, you know, the consensus was maybe it's better if I didn't, you know, I I probably was not ready at that point, uh, you know, probably physically and and mentally. I I probably wasn't ready. So uh the two years of experience that I had after that uh you know helped immeasurably. So uh it turned out to be a, I think, a great decision. Uh I think if I would have turned pro, I would have been frustrated and probably would not have done as well as I did.

Bruce Devlin 18:22

Yeah. So Corey, at the end during that period of time too, uh you won a couple of gold medals. You want to tell us a little bit about that?

Corey Pavin 18:32

Yeah, uh I played in the Maccabees games in 1981 in Israel and went over and played. Um we we had uh uh interesting team. Some of the guys I'm still in touch with, uh, Joel Hirsch was on that team, who was uh a pretty good amateur. Uh yeah, Chicago man.

Mike Gonzalez 18:50

Good man, good man.

Corey Pavin 18:51

Yeah, he's a great guy. He uh he's actually a godfather to my oldest son, Ryan. Uh but I met him there in 1981. Uh and Joel, of course, he was runner up in the British amateur one year as well. Uh, but a wonderful guy and uh a great experience over there. Uh we were over in Israel for two weeks. Uh remember we all went as a group. Um uh there's probably about four or five of us that went from uh Cesarea uh down into Jerusalem and and did a tour of Jerusalem and Bethlehem. And uh I'd never been to Israel before. Actually, I've never been there since, but uh fascinating trip. I mean, let alone you know about the golf and stuff. But uh the trip itself was was great. And you know, walking in as on on a you know a national team, uh we walked into the stadium. I guess it was probably Tel Aviv, I can't I don't know exactly, but you know, we walked in, the United States team walked in. It's like the Olympics, uh a tremendous experience uh and just loved it over there. Um had two weeks of fun. Uh I practiced little and and won won the gold medal, and our team won the gold medal. And Joel and I ended up in a playoff uh and and I beat him in the in the playoff. I can't remember if it was the first or second hole, but uh you know, Joel's out there grinding, hitting balls. You know, it's it's a hundred degrees and humid, you know, it's July and in Israel, it's hot.

Intro Music 20:17

Yeah.

Corey Pavin 20:17

And I'm out the swimming pool goofing around and and I'd go play 18 holes and go swim. And he'd be out there hitting hundreds of balls, and we ended up tying and I beat him. And you know, he's like scratching his head like, you know, I worked so hard. But uh, but we be we became great friends, and uh, you know, every time I get to Chicago I try to see him, and uh he's a wonderful guy. Yeah, and still playing fairly good golf, as I understand it too, in some of the society of senior events, so yeah, we played we had a a champions event in Chicago, and uh we went out and played a practice round uh together out there uh a couple weeks before the tournament. So it was it was good to get out on the golf course with him again.

Mike Gonzalez 21:01

So you went down to tour school at TPC in 1983 with uh a few names people will recognize. Willie Wood was the medalist, uh Jody Sindelar, Mark Brooks, Jody Mudd, Tom Lehman, Brad Faxen, Lauren Roberts, Zinger, Calc. They were all there.

Bruce Devlin 21:20

A lot of good plays. Whew.

Corey Pavin 21:22

Yes, it was it's pretty good cruppa guys, you know, in that in that era. The um you know, the one thing he didn't say is I tried in '82 and missed. I went to the regional qualifying and uh did not make it. I didn't even make it to the national qualifying. So I played overseas for a year, and then when I came back, uh I qualified and and uh yeah, TPC sawgrass, six rounds on that golf course with all that pressure was not a lot of fun. You know, I I I remember the I think the first round was on my birthday, November 16th, and I I shot 77 in my first round. Uh, not a good birthday present for myself. Um, but I managed to come back and and uh ended up finishing, I believe, tied for seventh in the Q school, 39, which was my last hole. So that got me into seventh and tied for seventh. And it's just a little side story, but the the the way they break the ties is your last round that you should you played. And so I was seventh, I was the seventh priority out of Q school. So the second tournament of the year in 1984 was the Phoenix Open, and the last uh tour school guy in was number seven, which was me. And I ended up finishing second. And yeah, it was a it was a huge track. You know, you you think about it today here in 2021, it was second place was forty-three thousand two hundred dollars, and at that time it was enough to guarantee me being in the top 125 and to secure my card. So it was a huge deal. Um, I was a little torn because you know we played the last hole, and three of us were tied on the same group. It was Tom Pertzer, uh Larry Mys, and myself. We were all tied playing the last hole. And Tom, Tom birdied it, I parted, and Larry bogeyed it. So we finished first, second, third. So I was a little torn that you know I I had a chance to win, and I didn't, and I was kind of upset about that, but I was also quite happy I finished second as well. So it kind of helped me the rest of the year to to just play freely because I I didn't have to worry about my card. I was gonna be on tour you know the next year in 1985, no matter what. So it really helped me so I had the whole year to play.

Mike Gonzalez 23:52

So maybe that finishing birdie at tour school was one of the most important birdies you ever made, huh?

Corey Pavin 23:58

Sure. It was, it was, it was very important, as well as the washout on the fifth round of the tour school when I was about six over, and we had a big uh thunderstorm and they washed the whole round out. And then I ended up shooting 72 in the fifth round. So I had a couple good breaks. You know, you look back on things like that, and and you don't think much of it at the time, and you know it's a good break, but uh you look back, you know, years and years later, and you know, it's the old you know, Steve Job jobs uh you know, c connect the dots and yeah and see where you end up. So uh it's it's interesting always to look back and see what happens in your life and where you end up where you are and how that happened.

Mike Gonzalez 24:41

Well, why don't we recap for our listeners the professional career of one Corey Paven, as uh Bruce mentioned at the top 15 tour wins amongst the 28 professional wins that Corey Paven had, two wins on the European tour, two wins on the Japanese tour, two wins on the Australasian tour, and one senior PGA tour win. Uh Corey won on five continents. There's not too many guys that have done that. There's only about five guys that I think won on six continents, so you probably miss South America, but uh highest ranking second. Yeah, uh highest ranking second in 1996. Uh he was in the top ten uh for almost a 10-year stretch from 1986 to 1997, so sustained good play throughout his uh his career. Um what we'd like to do is just maybe talk take a little walk down memory lane, highly and and and have you reminisce about some of your victories, uh, maybe starting quickly on the European tour because you kind of got uh you kind of got started over there a little bit and you played in the German Open in Cologne in 1983.

Corey Pavin 25:44

Yep. Um the German Open or the European Tour was my second international stint, actually. So I played in South Africa uh in January and February. I guess it'd be the Sunshine Circuit, I guess they call it now. Uh I played six tournaments there from the beginning of January to the middle of February. Uh I won the South African PGA uh down there. Uh a guy named Nick Price finished second. Uh I think I think I played the last round and had something like 21 putts. Um, you know, it was uh I think Nick was about ready to pull his hair out. You know, by the time I finished, he was like wondering who this guy is. He had no idea. Yeah, he had no idea who I was, and I didn't know who I was either at that time. So uh so that the the play in South Africa made me eligible to be an exempt player in Europe uh later in the year. So in I think it was the end of June. Uh I went to Europe and played from June to the middle of October. Uh I remember finishing third in my first tournament, uh Scandinavian Masters. Five, six weeks later, I won the German Open. Uh again, uh a name you might recognize finished second. I'm not sure. It was some guy, little Spanish kid. Yeah, the Spanish guy who was who was pretty good. Uh yeah, so Sevi finished second there, uh, which was pretty cool from my standards, you know, to to beat a guy like that. You know, it gave me a lot of confidence. Uh he got back at me at uh at Trophy Lancombe. Uh I finished second and he won that one. And that was my last tournament over there. Uh I I'd won a French circuit event uh as well over there at Calverson Classic. Uh and then I went back home, uh came back to the United States in October and went to Q School. And uh in Seattle was the first stage I made it there, and and then uh what we talked about earlier, I made it in um at Salgras for the second stage.

Mike Gonzalez 27:48

Uh back to the German Open, uh Sevy would have just come off his victory at the Masters, I think, that year. Uh because that was 1983, right?

Corey Pavin 27:58

83, yeah. Did he win in 83? He won in 83, he sure did. Yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 28:02

Yeah.

Corey Pavin 28:03

So 81, 83, or 80, 83, or something like that. 79? Oh no.

Mike Gonzalez 28:07

Yeah, he won in uh in 80. 1980, I think. In eighty three. And then I think he won in 83. Yeah, yeah.

Corey Pavin 28:14

Yeah, it was uh pretty big confidence booster for me to beat somebody like that. Um and yeah, and the the one thing I learned or about myself uh in that stint that one year was I loved playing overseas. I I really enjoyed playing in different places uh and seeing different cultures and seeing the world. Um it actually you know led me to play a lot of international golf. Um I I know there's some Americans that don't really love traveling uh and playing golf overseas, but I I just I've always loved it. I've always loved traveling and and to go s go somewhere and play golf and and see culture and and different places, it it's something that uh is is really fun for me. I enjoy it.

Bruce Devlin 29:03

And you had a habit of winning too when you were going around.

Corey Pavin 29:07

Maybe that's why maybe that's why I like going overseas.

Mike Gonzalez 29:10

That probably helps a little bit, but success could have something to do with it. We've talked about this subject of travel and and the commitment it took, uh particularly around our discussions around the open championship. And and even in your era, Corey, you know, uh you you you went the old course in 84, I think was your first open championship. And even during that time where I'm not even sure it was official money yet, uh, but it was a big sacrifice.

Corey Pavin 29:34

Yeah, it wasn't. Yeah, it wasn't official money. I you know, in 84, that was my first uh, I guess uh just say it the proper way, my first open championship. Um, and I went over and qualified for it. Uh, I wasn't exempt, so it meant that much to me to go over there and and take take the chance and spend the money to try to make the uh the open. And and uh you know, I love the old old horse. I mean, it's an amazing place. It was the first time I had seen it, and I'm probably like a lot of people. I think that the first time you see it, you go, really? You know, this is it? You know, there's nothing more to it than this.

Bruce Devlin 30:09

Especially the first hole. Especially the first hole, you know, it's sort of a walk down there, it's uh 180 yards wide, and uh, yeah, there's a little five-foot creek there in front of the green, but you know, and and and then you you play the course over and over again and and it grows on you like unbelievable.

Corey Pavin 30:29

You know, you Bruce, you mentioned the first hole there. You know, it's a huge green, right? It's a pretty big green. And and you play your practice rounds and you don't think much of it, and then they start, they put that, you know, they cut the hole about five yards over the the burn there. A little differently, and and it's downwind, and you can't get it close, and it's into the wind, and so many balls go in the water, it's amazing, you know. And it's it's an incredible golf course from the sense of strategic, you know, how you play it strategically, and it plays differently every day, it seems like. Yeah. Uh it doesn't look like much, but boy, it's it can be really hard to score on. It's a fun place to play.

Bruce Devlin 31:09

And it definitely grows on you. It's you know, it's it's still one of my favorite places to go play golf.

Corey Pavin 31:15

Yeah, I was fortunate to have my first open there, that's for sure. I I loved it. I still love it.

Mike Gonzalez 31:21

Let's just come back to the other places you played uh down in the on the Australasian tour. You won a couple of New Zealand opens. And uh uh Bruce, didn't you uh play in a few New Zealand opens yourself? I did, yeah.

Bruce Devlin 31:34

I was uh I I won a New Zealand Open. Actually, I won I won a New Zealand Open and later in they used to they had a tournament called the Shell Open. I don't know if uh if it was still around when you played down there, Corey, but uh yeah, so I I love to play in New Zealand, of course.

Corey Pavin 31:54

Do you remember what course you played in New Zealand?

Bruce Devlin 31:56

Oh was it Auckland or was it Yeah, we played in Auckland.

Corey Pavin 32:01

Uh I know it was a few years ago. I can't even remember yesterday, you know. The uh yeah, I went down there in '84 uh to play uh at the end of my first year on tour and uh uh played at uh para para I say say para paramu, isn't it? They they I say para param and they they say it differently. Para para umu, right? Um and I played really well. I won by a few there. I can't remember what it was. It was either five or six, seven, something like that. I think Terry Gale finished second, I believe. Uh but I I again I enjoyed it. It was a new place for me to go. Uh and I loved it so much I came back in 85 to defend my title, which I succeeded in doing. Um, and that one was in Christchurch. Uh and I enjoyed that so much I tried for three. Uh and uh I I didn't get it, but I think I finished fourth or fifth in '86. But uh, you know, again, I just love traveling and and seeing places and you know develop friendships uh that way as well. And it's nice to meet people and be with people your whole career that are that aren't necessarily U.S. citizens, that you know, the different cultures and you learn a lot about people and and the world that way.

Mike Gonzalez 33:20

Yeah, you sure do. Bruce, I I I should remember where you won your New Zealand Opens. I do not, but uh at the 83 Shell tournament that you mentioned, that was at Titirangi.

Bruce Devlin 33:31

Titerangi, yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 33:33

Yeah.

Bruce Devlin 33:34

Yeah. That's what that's where I won the open, too. At Titterangi. Is that in Auckland? Yes. Yeah, it sure is.

Mike Gonzalez 33:46

Of course, everybody knows uh Corey Pavin won the 1995 U.S. Open at Chinnocock. We'll talk about that in a minute. Uh he was the PGA player of the year and leading money winner in 1991. And uh I guess one of the thing uh we ought to have you comment on before we start highlighting your PGA tour victories, uh you had at least a couple of caddies in your career, an early, early one, who then uh turned it over to a guy you had for a very long time. Why don't you tell us about those guys?

Corey Pavin 34:14

Wow, you're doing your research. Um actually um Jim Menzies was my first uh long-term con uh long-term uh caddy, I guess. Um when I played in Europe in 1983, uh there was another caddy I knew, and when I got over there, I asked him if there was anybody he knew that could caddy for me because I didn't really have a caddy. And uh he said, Well, I I met this guy who's backpacking through Europe. He's from Australia, he's from Sydney, and he wants to caddy, you know, it's a way for him to make some money and and stay in Europe and and keep, you know, he's just living in a tent, right? This guy. So uh Jim Menzies his name. So he caddied for me for most of most of my time in Europe. Uh I went to the United States and I I played for a little over a year. And I know I always told him, I go, if you want to come to the States and work for me, you know, come on over. You know, we did well. So I think it was in I think it was March of 85. Uh Jim came over to the United States and he worked for me from 85 to 91, through 91, uh, and we did nicely. Uh and at the end of 91, uh he was done caddying and he wanted to go back home and and live in Sydney, which was fine. And uh during that year of 91, Jim was in Europe and I came back to the States for a tournament, and then I was going back to Europe, and he wanted to stay in Europe. So I asked him to find me a caddy for the one tournament that I'd be in the United States, which was Hartford. And he found a guy named Eric Schwartz. Uh he cadied for me. I lost in a playoff, played really well. Uh at the end of the year, Jim retired from caddying, in essence, and uh I called up Eric and asked him if he wanted to work for me. Uh, he'd been on tour for quite a long time, longer than me. He's caddied for a lot of really good players as well. Uh so I asked him if he wanted to, and and of course he said yes. Uh and I felt kind of bad because I took him away from another player. Uh, but the other player was fantastic about it and and said that's fine, it's a great opportunity for you. Go ahead. So Eric's caddied for me pretty much ever since then. Uh we've had a couple years off here and there, but uh since 91, uh the end of 91, Eric and I have been together, and we still are actually. So uh he's been a great friend, uh very loyal guy. Uh you know, we we he'd probably do more for me than I would for him, but I do a lot for him. Uh and he's he's uh just really a great friend. I mean, he's you know easily I could say he's probably my best friend, you know. Um we've been through a lot together. Uh, you know, when you're that when you're in a situation as a player in a caddy for that long and under a lot of different, you know, there's a lot of pressure, there's downtimes, there's up times, and you can stay together all that time. There's there's some kind of special bond there. And we have a nice special bond.

Mike Gonzalez 37:20

Yeah, it's great. I know he was on uh he he was on the bag when you and I played together as actually in the 2010 Pro Am before the GMO. And uh I sp I spent a fair bit of time talking to him as we went up and down the fairways, probably asking more about you and your career, but uh it just seemed like a really, really fine guy.

Corey Pavin 37:40

Yeah, he's a great guy. He's he's a saint in the pro-ams. I mean, he he's uh amazing to watch him. He loves to help help the amateurs, and you know, I help the amateurs too, and man, he'll take someone off to the side and and and work with them pretty pretty hard. And uh it's a wonderful quality that he has.

Mike Gonzalez 38:00

Thank you for listening to another episode of For the Good of the Game. And please, wherever you listen to your podcast on Apple and Spotify, if you like what you hear, please subscribe, spread the word, and tell your friends until we tee it up again for the good of the game. So long, everybody.

Intro Music 38:24

It went smack down the fairway. And it started like just smacked off line. Headed for two, but it was offline. My head is as long as you're still in the stage, okay?