Corey Pavin - Part 3 (The 1995 U.S. Open and the Ryder Cup)

Mike Gonzalez 0:00

Just a quick disclaimer before we start this episode, we weren't able to achieve the typical audio quality that we'd like to achieve with our episodes. I think you'll find that this is listenable, but just wanted to give you a heads up.

Lee Trevino 0:27

It went straight down the middle. Let it start a middle.

Mike Gonzalez 0:33

All right, so let's uh Corey talk a little bit about uh your major championship experience, and I think the fun thing to do would be to start with the one that you would most enjoy recollecting for us, and that would be the U.S. Open, where you had 23 starts, 12 cuts made, uh one top five. Of course, we know what that was. Uh three top tens, eight top twenty-fives with your best finish. 1995, winning the U.S. Open at Shinnakot Golf Club by two over one. Greg Norman.

Corey Pavin 1:03

Yeah, that was that was a good one. Uh that's a good memory. Uh that's um, you know, it was uh an interesting week because I I I'd lost a playoff the week before at the Kemper to Lee Jansen, and uh I went in feeling pretty good about my game, and I played at Shinnikok in 86, and I just remembered I'd I loved the golf course. I didn't play well in '86, but I I remember thinking this is one of the greatest courses I've ever seen. Uh so I was happy to go back uh and play. I was unhappy when it poured rain on Wednesday and softened the golf course. Uh but yeah, I went out. First hole I drove it right into the junk, and there was like one little bush there, and my ball was right in it. And I had to take an unplayable eye, and I knocked it up you know, up just front of the green and chipped it up and made it for bogey. And I think I bogeied four and then I dunked one on five, par five for Eagle. And I was even par for the tournament. And I believe I bogeyed seven and I went through the whole tournament. I didn't really play particularly well the first day, uh, but I scraped it around. I think I shot a couple over. And I found something on the range uh that afternoon uh working on it, and I played really nicely the the the the last 54 holes. Um it was just a golf course that was just hard to get something going on, uh like most US opens are. Um it was windy, it was it was drying up as the week went on. Uh there were some good scores early in the week, and then uh as it dried up, it it got very hard. Uh you know, the the good thing about the last round, even though I was three shots back at first, uh there was only four players in front of me. Uh so I think I think uh Greg and Tom Lehman, who's a great friend of mine, uh, were tied, and uh Bob Tway and uh Bill Mickelson were one behind those two. And then there was a shot gap. And then it was myself uh three shots back. So I only had four players to pass, which was uh better than you know ten. Um and I felt comfortable, you know. Nobody was looking at me. Uh media wasn't even talking to me. All week the media didn't even talk to me. Uh I think I had one interview Saturday night, uh, and that was it, uh, even though I'd almost won the week before. So it was nice not to have that distraction, I guess if you want to call it that. Uh and I just went out very relaxed on Sunday. Uh it was Father's Day, had a nice morning uh with family, and I went out and I was just I I I can't tell you how just relaxed I was. I wasn't nervous. Uh I was just out playing golf on Sunday. And I birdied, I birdied uh nine, and then I birdied 12, and I knew my position at the time, and uh you know I knew I was tied playing 15, and I knocked it up on the green about 12, 15 feet and made the putt for Birdie. Uh and that was the first time I was in the lead, and that was the first time I got back to even par for the tournament. And then I got really nervous. Then I then it all it all hit me what was going on.

Mike Gonzalez 4:33

Well, let me let me if I can, let me take you back to a couple of other shots and you tell us how much of a difference it made. How about on number two, hitting the pin with your chip? Did that you think that might have saved your stroke?

Corey Pavin 4:45

Oh, absolutely. You know, I I I think about that too. Uh yeah, the tough part three, I had a short ride of the bunker, not my greatest shot, and I had a lot of green to work with. I just chipped it a little too hard and it it raced across the green and just slammed into the pin. And uh it was pretty much a tap-in, but it would have gone you know eight, ten feet by. It was almost probably gonna be a bogey, but um you know that that helped obviously a great deal. Um but other than that, I think I played I think I played pretty solidly, you know, the whole day. Uh I wasn't in much trouble.

Mike Gonzalez 5:18

Pretty solid par save on number 10.

Corey Pavin 5:22

Uh 10. Yeah, I think I hit it over the green, yeah, which is the only place to hit it there. Shorts bad, very bad. Comes back 60 yards down that fairway. Uh I actually made sure I hit that long. I figured I'd be able to get it up and down from where I where I hit it. Um that was a good up and down. Um missed opportunity on 11. I remember that. Uh 12. I I was making sure I hit my butt hard enough to get it there, which I did. Um, so after I I birdied 15, uh, you know, I'm a big board watcher, so I knew exactly where I stood. Um uh John Schroeder was walking with us that day for doing TV. Uh so I was constantly talking to John and you know what position I was in, what's going on, and uh, because I want to know all that stuff. Um so by the time uh I got to 17, uh, which was playing extremely hard part three, almost impossible to get the ball close to the hole. Uh I hit it about you know 50, 60 feet away from the hole and putted it about five feet past, uh, which was about the last thing I wanted to do. You know, I had a one-shot lead at the time. And uh I I looked back on that open and I think that was a more critical shot, a more critical putt uh of the tournament than the four wood I hit on 18. Um I hit I I the only way I can describe it is the best putt I ever hit in my career. Um it was a five-foot right to left putt downhill. You know, I had to play outside the hole and just hearted it right in the middle. Uh, and that allowed me to play 18 a little more conservatively. Yeah. Um, you know, I cut it off the T into the wind, so it didn't go very far, but it was in the fairway. And you know, of course the forward was a pretty good shot. You know, I'm not downplaying that shot, but uh you know, it was I couldn't hit that shot any better either. Uh the good thing I had going for me was in my memory was on Friday I had the exact same shot. Uh I had a forward from the middle of the fairway, and I hit a really good shot right up into the middle of the green. Uh so I had a good picture in my mind already from Friday. Conditions were fairly similar. Um, and I just went through my routine and just hit as good a shot as I could ever hit. Yeah, that was a beauty.

Mike Gonzalez 7:40

I think looking back on that shot too, because obviously television uh technology, as you know, Bruce, because you were doing the the the tournaments at the time, uh tell uh technology was evolving, you were getting different camera shots, and but the camera shot they have of that shot is one of the best, I think, ever. Ever.

unknown 8:00

Yeah.

Corey Pavin 8:01

It's a it's cool that overhead look at it uh and bouncing up there. It was pretty neat. Um I I wish I had a picture of my whole swing uh or a video of my whole swing. Because right in the middle of my swing, I think right at impact, they went to that overhead shot. Um so, or right before it. Uh but it was a very cool angle. You know, they had a uh whatever their crane was up there, it had a neat angle on it.

Mike Gonzalez 8:28

And so uh uh your reaction was at some point, uh, I don't know how many steps down the fairway you took, but at some point you kind of squatted down to just sort of what, slow it down, compose yourself a little bit. What was going through your mind then?

Corey Pavin 8:42

Yeah, that was part of it. Um, it was the first time I showed emotion uh in the round. Uh I'm usually fairly stoic, uh unless something really good happens. And I kind of let out a little emotion there. Uh I kind of ran up the hill to watch it because I couldn't see it because of the hills in the way. Um and then when I stopped, I went, okay, I've got to calm down here. I still have uh some work to do. Um so I squatted down and and to compose myself, I actually said a little prayer. Um I I'm gonna revise how I pray in the future because uh from that, because I prayed for God's will to be done. And I should have prayed for him to allow me to make the putt on on the 72nd green, but uh I guess his will was for me to win, so uh it all turned out fine. But uh a little disappointed I didn't make the putt. Um uh it wasn't a hard putt. It was the only putt I missed inside of 10 feet all week. Uh, and it was like an inside right uphill putt. It was the easiest putt in the world, except for it was a 72nd hole of the US Open. But uh I did what a lot of golfers do. I kind of peeked. I wanted to see it go in uh before I actually made contact, and and uh I missed it because of that.

Mike Gonzalez 9:57

And you know, in retrospect, yeah, would it have been a better story? Sure, you would have liked to have finished it off, but at the end of the day, it really didn't matter, did it?

Corey Pavin 10:05

It didn't. You know, uh you know, Greg uh bogeyed 17. Um, so you know he you know, I ended up with a two shot. He had to hold it from the fairway on 18. And you know, I was sitting up in the tower with uh Dick Enberg and Johnny Miller watching him hit his second shot, and all I can think of was you know Larry Mice chipping in on him, Bob Tway hitting it out of the bunker, uh Gamez making it on the 18th at Bahill, and I'm like maybe he's gonna do it to the time you know, payback for great, right? And and I that's all was going through my mind, and I was actually mentally preparing for a playoff, you know, if it went in. You know, I wasn't gonna be caught off guard. And uh yeah, I knew the second he hit it when uh whoever was making the call, maybe it was Roger uh in the fairway, said you know, he started it right at the pin, and I knew the wind was blowing 20 miles an hour right to left. There was no way. Uh so the second I heard that I was feeling pretty comfortable.

Mike Gonzalez 11:03

So what was what was the emotion uh when you finally realized that ball landed near the U.S. Open champion?

Corey Pavin 11:10

It was it was nice. You know, it was uh I was sitting up there and you know Johnny uh uh he turned to me and he goes, How does it feel to be the US Open Champion, you know, the United States Open Champion? And I said, It feels pretty darn good. You know, it for me when I'd won 13 times on tour, and you know, I was kind of you know that that guy with that label, you know, like you know, best player never to won a major. And it didn't bother me so much that people said it, because it's kind of a compliment in a way. It bothered me that I had not won a major. So, you know, that was certainly one of my goals at that point in my career, and I knew there weren't going to be a lot more opportunities. Um, so to get that major and and to win it, uh it meant a lot to me personally to win a major championship.

Mike Gonzalez 12:00

Close with a 68 to under uh that final day. Did you say at the start of the day or at some point after Saturday that uh you'd take a 68 sick back and see how I do?

Corey Pavin 12:12

I don't remember saying that or thinking that. Um I just remember going out in the last round and just say, just play your game. Uh there's only four guys in front of you. Uh the last day of the US Open, usually people go backwards. Uh it's very rare that someone goes forward uh scoring-wise, uh, especially when they're up near the lead. So I felt like there was a good opportunity there. Um I wasn't I didn't feel like I put pressure on myself to play great or anything or try to shoot any score. You know, I I knew that two under or something like that would be a really good thing. Uh it might do it, but you never know. Uh so I tried not to put in uh final result of a score. I just wanted to play my game, play the best I could, play smart, you know, keep the mistakes down to a minimal, which I did that day. I made one bogey and three birdies. Uh it was one of the best strategic rounds I think I've ever played in my life. Uh very smart round of golf I played that day.

Mike Gonzalez 13:15

You know, one factoid that our listeners might not believe, but you beat Phil Mickelson on the 16th hole by eight shots that week.

unknown 13:23

Yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 13:23

Par five. What's up with that?

Corey Pavin 13:26

Yeah. Um we might have to talk to Phil about that one. Um you know, I I I I guess I played a two under. Uh, because I'm pretty sure he played it six over, but um I he had a hard time. You know, par fives in U.S. Opens can be some of the hardest holes uh in golf uh because of the rough length. Um if you miss the fairway off the T, you've got trouble. It's really hard to reach the green in three.

Mike Gonzalez 13:50

Yeah.

Corey Pavin 13:51

Uh if you miss it a couple times, you know, you you're looking at double bogey. Um and you know, I saw how he played the 16th hole on Sunday. He was in some long rough out there. It was pretty pretty strong rough that week. Uh and it'll each up, you know. I'm sure he's kicking himself about that. Uh and maybe a few other US opens too. But um, you know, there's no one who tries harder to win than Phil. So uh it's a shame that he came up short. You know, who knows? Maybe he'll win one. You know, you he won the PJ last year, maybe he can win a U.S. Open uh in his 50s, but uh it's a shame that's what he's short of uh for this for the slam.

Mike Gonzalez 14:31

You had a pretty good putting week that week.

Corey Pavin 14:34

I did. I have no idea what the total was, but it was low. Uh I know I hit 36 screens, so I probably was you know right around 36 under in putting, uh whatever that is.

Mike Gonzalez 14:48

You tied for tied for lowest putts in the in the field for the week, so that was pretty good. Tell us about the call you got from President Clinton.

Corey Pavin 14:57

Um, you know, the the thing is I I played golf with him um the Friday before uh the US Open when I played the Kemper. Um I called him up. I called the White House because we had had a conversation the year before. He said, next time you're in town, give me a call, we'll go play. So long and short of it is I ended up playing with him uh Friday after my morning round at the Kemper. We went out and played Army Navy together, and we had a really nice time. It was fun. You know, I kidding him about uh UCLA being Arkansas in the NCAA men's basketball final, which was which was fun. Yeah, um, and but we had a really nice time, and and you know, it's I've played with presidents before, but never a sitting president, and it was really a special treat to do that. Um and so after the round on Sunday at the US Open, I I went through, did all the interviews, and finally finished all the interviews, and it was you know pitch dark, and friends were waiting for me to celebrate and family, and um I walked out of the door, and all I wanted to do was go to where everybody was to have fun and relax. And somebody was standing there with a phone and said, uh, there's a phone call for you. And I said, take a message, you know, I'm done. Right. And and he said, Do you know? I think you might want to take this one.

SPEAKER_03 16:22

Yeah.

Corey Pavin 16:23

And uh, I picked up the phone and you know, it was President Clinton wishing, you know, saying congratulations. And uh his first thing was he said, you know, I guess all those tips I gave you last week really paid off, you know. And you know, I was like, That's a that's a good one, Mr. President, you know, and uh, but really a nice, nice man, you know. Um we've connected, you know, multiple times you know, after that. Uh and he's done some really nice, charitable things for myself and my wife. Uh really nice man. I was impressed that he called me and uh more impressed that he called me after I won Milwaukee, actually. Um I hadn't talked to him for I don't know, it'd been quite a few years. Uh he just called me to say congratulations, that's what I thought was very nice to do.

Mike Gonzalez 17:10

That's pretty cool. That's pretty cool. Any other uh US Open close calls that uh you think about?

Corey Pavin 17:17

Um not not many. You know, the one I think of uh in 1985 uh that our friend Andy North won.

Mike Gonzalez 17:26

Yeah, at Oakland Hills, sure.

unknown 17:27

Yeah.

Corey Pavin 17:28

I I didn't realize I had a chance uh to make a run at that one. Um it was early in my career and I didn't understand the patterns of US opens and what happens the last day. Uh I think TC Chen was like seven under par or something, and Andy was three under, and you know, I think I I don't know where I was, maybe even uh you know far back, and and there was a lot of people in between us, I if I remember right. And I I think I ended up you know two over for the championship, and Andy might have been one under or two under uh when he won. And I just didn't realize I had an opportunity there. Uh, but it opened my eyes to how major championships work, especially in uh day four. Things can really change a lot.

Mike Gonzalez 18:19

Well, let's move on to the masters then. Uh you you had 16 starts at the Masters. You made the cut just about every time you played there. I love the Masters. I love that tournament. Uh one top five, uh, which came in 1992 when you were third. That was the year Fred Couples won, and three top tens, eight top twenty-fives. Tell us a little bit about your experience there at Augusta.

Corey Pavin 18:39

Yeah, you know, I I always enjoyed playing in that tournament. Um I actually enjoyed it more when it was oddly enough, when there was no rough. Uh and it was more wide open. Uh I thought it was more strategic uh when it was like that, because it you had to hit it certain sides of the fairway. Uh was very important to get the angles into the greens. Now you don't really, I mean you just have to hit in the fairway, you don't really work angles so much. Uh but I always thought that that tournament and the British Open or the Open Championship were my best opportunities to win a major championship uh because of shot making skills and and creativity, um and me being able to putt and chip pretty well. So uh I like my career at the US Open or at the Masters uh very much. Um you know I was talking to somebody the other day about you know Freddie shot on 12 that year staying on the bank and not rolling back. Uh if that rolls back, it's uh it's a whole different ball game. You know, I I was playing well out in front uh of them. Uh but if that ball had rolled back in the water and not stuck on the bank, which was amazing that it stuck, which is a great break for Freddie and more power to him, uh, but it would have been it could have been different. Um but I was you know I played a wonderful weekend there. I think I may have shot 68, 67, uh made a hole and won on 16 in the second round when I was in danger of missing the cut. Uh so things went really well from the 16th on Friday to the last hole on Sunday. Um so I made a great comeback there. It was fun. Uh came up short. Uh remember being in the butler cabin uh after my round because I was leader in the clubhouse. Um I'm trying to remember the chairman's name at that point. Um uh uh Jack Stevens.

Mike Gonzalez 20:36

Could have been Jack Stevens, yeah. Yeah. Stevens, yeah.

Corey Pavin 20:39

So Jack was in the cabin with me, and I was in there for a long time. Uh Raymond Floyd ended up finishing second, but he came in, he finished his round. I remember watching him on 14 when I was in the cabin. So, you know, I was in there for well over an hour uh as leader in the clubhouse, and it was just funny when Raymond cut it on on 18, you know, it was Raymond's turn to come into the cabin, right? You know, he's leader in the clubhouse. Right. So uh Mr. Stevens came up to me and he just said, you know, you had a very nice tournament, you know, can't wait to see you next year. You know, shook my hand and you know, did everything, but his his shoe hit me on the ass as I went out the door. So um it was just his way of saying, You're you may leave now. Uh but it was very polite and very nice. Uh it just struck me as a very funny moment. Uh but you know, I I was in contention, you know, the year Jack won in 86. Um we were both way far ahead of of the leaders on the golf course. And uh you know 16 T. I was if Jack and I were playing together, I would have been one shot behind Jack. Um Jack finished a lot better than I did that day. Uh you know, 86, I was young, I was so nervous. It was probably the only one of the few times I could say I I really. Choked. You know, I pulled my my shot into the water on 16, made double. And I I think I doubled or I bogeied 18 or doubled it, or 17 and par 18, whatever it was. So I finished, you know, like double bogey bogey par, and Jack finished birdie birdie par.

Mike Gonzalez 22:17

Yeah.

Corey Pavin 22:17

And he wins outright. So, you know, if I play the last few holes really well, you know, I would have had a chance.

Mike Gonzalez 22:23

Yeah.

Corey Pavin 22:24

But I didn't, and I learned a lot from it. Um, but you know, the Masters is a very unique tournament. Um, you know, it's the only major played on a on a golf course. Uh it's the youngest major there is, but it has the most memories of that any golf fan can can recall of her, probably at the Masters, uh, because it is at the same golf course, and there's so many things that can happen coming down the stretch there. Um, it's a it's it's a very well-conceived golf course for for drama. Yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 22:59

You beat Jack Nicholas in 1986, and you become the Stuart Sink of your generation.

Corey Pavin 23:06

Yeah, it's uh you know, you say that, and and it's I remember watching Tom Watson play that, and you know, Stewart's a really good friend of mine. I'm I was you know very happy for Stuart. Uh but you think of a 59-year-old winning a major championship. I still to this day, if Tom had won, I I think it would have been the the greatest sports achievement in history, actually. And he hit a beautiful and it was very unlucky his shot on 18. It was so unlucky. It lands a foot shorter or a foot longer, he wins. Yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 23:38

He took us through the long version of that day uh when he was on.

Corey Pavin 23:41

Yeah, I bet. I was with Stuart one time, we were doing something together at uh and uh uh shortly after he won, and and somebody asked him if he felt bad for Tom, and Stewart's answer was very short. No, he didn't feel bad at all. He was very happy that he won. Um but yeah, that is what people remember is is the one that Tom could have won, you know, or whatever. But um it was a great win for Stewart.

Mike Gonzalez 24:12

You played a few open championships, uh played 19 times over there. And so as you said, you you enjoyed traveling. Of course, Bruce Devlin uh uh set the standard back in his day for being a global player. And and Bruce, uh you know, guys like uh Crampton and and and Devlin and and yourself and Gary Player, you were world travelers.

Bruce Devlin 24:34

Well, yeah, well it's uh and and when you think about where we started from, too. You know, we were a long way from anything down there in Australia and South Africa. It's uh it's uh it w we had to do it, you know. There were there was no money and there was basically no you know, no schedule really.

Corey Pavin 24:55

Yeah, I mean the PJ tour was the place.

Bruce Devlin 24:58

Only place.

Corey Pavin 24:58

And I mean Europe was there, but it was still uh you know very secondary. You know, Europe's a lot bigger now, but um you know the place to play was the U.S. That's where the the best players in the world wanted to be there, and the money too.

Mike Gonzalez 25:10

And yet you found time to win on on five different continents, so that's a that's a nice feather in your cap. Let's talk about the open championship. What were some of your favorite venues over there?

Corey Pavin 25:21

Well, you know, obviously St. Andrews is is fantastic. Um, you know, Meerfield's an amazing golf course. Uh I really like St. George's. I know there's a lot of people that don't uh because the fairways have all these little humps and bumps in them and the ball bounces all over. Uh, but I think that's kind of fun. You know, it's uh you have to think about what the ball's gonna do after it lands with the driver, which you know, many not many people really think about that much, but I like that golf course for some reason. Uh maybe because it's my best open finish, but um I think I finished fourth there was my best finish. But uh but those three courses stick out in my mind the most. Um I like them all. I'm not saying there's anyone I don't like, but yeah, I I love that style of golf. I love Lynx golf. Um the creativity and the the as much as you have to think uh with wind changes and how far the ball can roll, uh it's really a different kind of golf than obviously that we play in the United States uh and pretty much anywhere else in the world. There's not many Lynx courses in the world. Uh I mean I I don't know anywhere else where I've seen Lynx courses like that. Uh it's just the turf and the land. Uh they can do it. Uh I'm sure there's a couple, you know, abandoned dunes is like that, I guess. Um there's gotta be some places in Australia that are like that, I'd imagine.

Bruce Devlin 26:42

Well, Sandbelt really in uh Melbourne, probably it's a little it's a little bit a little bit like it, but it's yeah, a little different, but but yeah. There's some lovely courses there.

Mike Gonzalez 26:54

Yeah. That's my next golf trip, I hope. Take some time. Which course did you find to be the most difficult of the open venues?

Corey Pavin 27:06

Um, you know, I think Muirfield's probably the hardest. Um the conditions always make those courses hard, but I I think under calm conditions, uh I think Muirfield would probably be the hardest one to play, you know, if there was no wind or anything. I I think it's the most difficult from T to Green, you know how um they all have their uh uh uh difficulties, but I think that's probably the toughest.

Mike Gonzalez 27:33

Yeah, you know, there's I don't think there's anything real tricky about Muirfield. It's it's so it's it's relatively straightforward. It's hard, but it's it's what you see is what you get. It's all right there in front of you.

Corey Pavin 27:44

Yeah, yeah, and that's one thing that makes it great. Is it's right there in front of you and it's hard.

Mike Gonzalez 27:50

Yeah.

Corey Pavin 27:50

You know, that's there's no tricks to it. You know, it's just a a solid golf course.

Mike Gonzalez 27:55

I thought Carnusti might get a mention for hard because I know you played there at least once, didn't you?

Corey Pavin 28:00

Yeah. Well, it can be. I mean, 99 was brutal. Uh that was set up. Um I thought I really thought the fairways were way too narrow that year and the rough was way too long close to the fairways. Uh the wind blew and it blew across the golf course. Every hole was across wind. Uh, I just didn't like the fairness of that setup. Um I went back in 2010 and played the the senior open there, and it was set up much like it should be. And I thought, what a wonderful golf course. Uh it was so different. Um, but I like Carnistia a lot too.

Mike Gonzalez 28:37

I agree with setup. I I vividly remember that. It just seemed like you guys were playing on a bowling alley.

Corey Pavin 28:42

Yeah, it was it wasn't fun.

Mike Gonzalez 28:45

Uh how about the PGA championship where Corey Paven had 21 starts, made 14 cuts. Uh best finish uh to Mr. Price when he won at Southern Hills in 1994. You finished second.

Corey Pavin 28:57

Yeah, a close second.

Mike Gonzalez 28:58

Yeah.

Corey Pavin 28:59

Yeah. What was it seven? He played eight. I don't know.

Mike Gonzalez 29:03

No, it was by six, but he played pretty well that week, didn't he?

Corey Pavin 29:06

He played uh tremendous golf there. Uh another great golf course, Southern Hills. Um wonderful golf course. Um Yeah, I played well that week. Um, you know, the PJ is uh a great event. I mean it's a wonderful tournament. I always felt like uh the PJ was a mix of um you know uh kind of a regular tournament, US Open. You know, it was like a US Open with softer greens, uh, you know, more gettable golf course. A lot of US opens are played, you know, they share PGA and US opens. You know, that's the closest I ever got. I don't I feel like I never was really close besides that week, and I didn't feel like I was close that week because Nick ran away with it. But uh you know, I'm glad I finished second. You know, I've you know I've the one thing I like to say is I've hit for the cycle in the majors. You know, I've I've won the US Open, I finished second at the PGA, uh you know, third at uh the Masters and fourth at the at uh the British Open. So you know I've got a one, two, three, four finish, and and I've I feel like I've been fairly consistent. I've had the same amount of top tens in each major. Uh I think it's I think three in each major uh top tens. Um so it's steady, it's nice consistency across the board. You know, I like that, um which means that I can adapt to different types of golf courses and I like to think of myself as being able to play anywhere, anytime and compete.

Mike Gonzalez 30:36

Uh I'm sure our listeners would enjoy you and I recounting the round we had together, 2010 pro am at the GMO, but I'm gonna I'm gonna save them in the pain. Uh that's a cool little golf course there, Brown Deer. You know, and I lived in I lived there at the time and and uh and that's the only time I've ever played it, was just that one day with you.

Corey Pavin 30:58

Oh yeah. Some good good courses in Milwaukee.

Mike Gonzalez 31:02

Just to share with you, we had the first pick for the afternoon around for the Pro M. And they let me make the pick.

Corey Pavin 31:10

And you and you're you seriously you picked me?

Mike Gonzalez 31:13

And this was the year you you you uh you know, you came out on the on this on the senior tour, right? Uh in 2010, and and it was you know a little bit later in that year you were gonna be writer cup captain. And I'm sure playing with me for 18 holes didn't help in your preparation, but anyway.

Corey Pavin 31:31

It helped tremendously. We would have lost by more than than one if you hadn't given me all your advice.

Mike Gonzalez 31:36

Yeah, yeah, yes. But anyway, that was a boy was a fun day. Fun day. Um let's talk a little senior tour. Uh uh, a couple things that come to mind. One was it the year you you went out as a senior that you almost won the Travelers too on the on the regular tour.

Corey Pavin 31:54

Yeah, it is. Uh 2010. Uh I was uh I was captain as well. Um I I lost a playoff at Hartford. Uh it was uh Bubba won the tournament. It was a three-way playoff with Bubba and Scott Verplank and myself. Um I managed to knock myself out on the first hole. But uh, you know, I was pretty pleased to get in a playoff at 50 years old. I thought that was pretty enough a reasonable accomplishment. You know, it's not like I won the PGA when I was 50 or but uh or 51, whatever Phil was. Um, but yeah, I was pretty pleased with that finish. Uh you know, the the neat thing about that first year on the champions tour for me was I I played well enough on the regular tour to be exempt the next year on the regular tour as well. Uh I didn't use it per se, but I played four events in 2011, but I was in the top 125 in uh 2010, which uh that was not bad.

Mike Gonzalez 32:50

Yeah, and you you you broke through in 2012, you won the Alianz uh championship in a playoff with Peter Sr. Was that the tournament where you hit that crazy left-handed shot from behind the green?

Corey Pavin 33:02

Yeah, it was. It was uh that was that one. Uh the left-handed, uh backhanded in a route up the hill, shot that insane. It was insane, you know. Yeah, it was it was just at a point in the tournament where I just had to do it. I mean, there was I didn't have a choice. Um I I thought it was probably doable to make a bogey. You know, that was my goal, was to to not make worse than than bogey. If I dropped it, and it would have been really hard to make a bogey. Uh so I was just really trying to get it up the hill somewhere, and somewhere I can chip it and get it up and down, and somehow it came out perfectly and hit into the hill and bounced up onto the green and rolled down to you know like five feet or whatever it was. Uh it was a crazy shot. I I could probably sit there all day and not hit one that could again.

SPEAKER_03 33:51

Yeah.

Corey Pavin 33:52

Most pressure I ever had on a putt almost was that putt uh to make it well not quite, but it was I I wanted to make that badly just because of the shot I had hit.

Mike Gonzalez 34:02

Yeah, again, that's one of those finishing it off kind of things. You were playing with Calkovicchia, I think, weren't you?

Corey Pavin 34:07

Yep, yeah. We were playing together and uh he had a tough finish there. Uh but you know that that was the 14th hole. And I just I was one or two back, and I just had to I had to do it. And I pulled it off, and you know, fortunately I ended up winning the tournament, which was nice. And my own my only win on the champions tour.

Mike Gonzalez 34:27

It was a it was a good one, and uh and that shot has been replayed on YouTube tens of thousands of times, I I know, and made the rounds on social media.

Corey Pavin 34:37

Yeah. Yeah, I always know when it's on social media because people start texting me and sending me stuff like you know, and I mean, oh, I guess that shot's back on there again.

Mike Gonzalez 34:46

Uh let's talk Ryder Cup, huh?

Corey Pavin 34:49

Okay.

Mike Gonzalez 34:51

Uh a little bit of uh experience as a player, a little bit of experience as a captain. Let's start with the player uh side of things. Uh 1991. Uh Bruce and I have had a chance now with you to talk to six uh people that participated in that Ryder Cup uh cup, including uh your captain that year. Uh take us through your perspective of the experience at Kiowa.

Corey Pavin 35:16

As my first Ryder Cup, it was probably the most fan vocal, uh crazy Ryder Cup I've ever seen. So um it was kind of at the height when everything, you know, Europe started to, you know, they they beat us a couple times. Nobody cared until we lost. And then it's like, wait, what do we mean we lost? So um the attention to it was incredible. Um I was very excited as a player to play. I always wanted to play in the Ryder Cup. You know, half the fans were US fans and half the fans were European fans. Um, and it was like every green it seemed like we went up to, they were like kind of chanting at each other. They were respectful when we played, uh, but there was so much noise and it was just so different, right? Um I'd never seen fans be, you know, have partisan fans like that. Um and I I loved it. It was it was so much fun. Um I wish I'd played a little better, but um, you know, I was one and two in that Ryder Cup. Uh but the most important thing is that we won. Um you know, watching that last match with Hale and Bernhard was was really hard. Um you know, I you know, as I was saying earlier, you know, Bernhard's a very good friend of mine. Uh, but I live in the United States and I and I was on the US team and I wanted us to win. Uh I just didn't want anything bad to happen to Bernhard, you know, kind of thing. But uh and it was just an incredible watch, you know, from the 18th Green, you know, watching Bernhard over this five-foot putt, uh, whatever it was, five, six feet, whatever it was, uh makes it, they win. Or you he misses, we win. You know, and it's like it was amazing it came down to that. Uh and you know, I'm glad we won. I'm sad that that he missed, but I'm happier that we won.

Mike Gonzalez 37:08

As I mentioned, we've heard from a lot of your teammates, and of course, there's all kinds of things that happened that week. Um, but this was the this was the first win on on on uh uh well it was the first win for the U.S. really since 83. I mean we we won an 83 down at PJ National. Barely Landy stuffed a little wedge right there at the last. Barely won. And then you know they they go to the Belfry, I think, probably in '85 uh lose. Sevy, Faldo, these guys are coming on the scene, and now it's a European team. Come back in 87. I think it was at uh uh Jack's place, right? Yep. Uh and uh and and he's the captain, and they get beat there, which was a big shock. And then back in 89, I think they uh you went back probably to the Belfry or somewhere and and and lost. So this was a big deal, wasn't it, coming into the 91 Ryder Cup.

Corey Pavin 37:57

Yeah, both teams. I mean, we all hung out and we had a good time afterwards. Uh you know, it was fun throwing Dave and uh you know Captain Stockton into the ocean. Um you know, that was a fun thing. And uh all I remember is freezing on the bus going back to the to the you know where we were staying to to change clothes. You know, I was in my I was in my jacket, he threw me in the water after that. So I was drenched and it was pretty cold. Um but it was fun. It was a a great adventure for the first rider cup. I mean, I I can't think of anything uh that was that would have been more dramatic than that one.

Mike Gonzalez 38:32

You had the bus trip into Charleston for the Low Country Dinner where uh you had a little uh chain reaction.

Corey Pavin 38:39

Yeah, we were on limousines. It was I I called it limousine demolition derby. Um you know, um Steve Fate got hurt real badly. Um and he was my partner. Uh we were we were supposed to play together, uh, so I had to change things up. That put a a uh a crimp in Dave Stockton's plans. Um but yeah, it was that was messy. Um it was too bad, you know. Um uh at least Steve got to play again in in uh 99. So uh it would have been sad if that would have been his only rider cup.

Mike Gonzalez 39:12

As I recall, I think Stockton was saying that you had two buses scheduled to go to some dinner after the final match, right? Yes. And you all end up jamming into one, just writing together.

Corey Pavin 39:22

Yeah, we did.

Mike Gonzalez 39:23

Somebody somebody happened to pick you up.

Corey Pavin 39:25

Yeah, somebody shorter than me picked me up, and I was I was very concerned uh because Mr. Woosnum had had quite a few uh beverages uh when he when he picked me up. But you know, Wizzy's a strong, strong little dude.

Bruce Devlin 39:40

Strong dude.

Corey Pavin 39:41

You know, yeah, he carried me up into the bus, and I was like, please don't drop me, you know, please. Um but you know, we had fun. You know, I think that's after the rider cup's over, and you know, the the teams always get together and and you know all that emotion kind of comes out and and we just kind of relax and and enjoy each other uh as company on Sunday night usually.

Mike Gonzalez 40:02

Two years later, was he your fellow competitor in the last round of the US Open?

Corey Pavin 40:07

Did you go with Ian the last day? Well, in 95. Yeah, in 95 we were paired together. Yes.

Mike Gonzalez 40:12

Sorry, four years later, yeah. Yeah. Well enough about 91. You went to the Belfry in 93, won again. Uh Tom Watts and Bernard Gallagher uh captains.

Corey Pavin 40:23

Yep. I played some of the best golf of my life that week. Um I remember Eric turning to me and saying, you know, after the writer cup, like, why don't you play like this when we're playing for money? You know, and I went, I was like, I looked at him, you know, this is September of 95, right? I go, well, you know, I won the LA Open, I won the US Open. Um, that's pretty good, isn't it? You know, and um, you know, he was joking, of course. And and I actually went out and won the million dollar tournament later in '95. So it was a 95 was a good year, but I played so well. Or no, we're talking about 93, I'm sorry. Uh that's a 95 story, sorry. In 93, I did play really well. It's one thing to play well in the space and everybody's cheering for you, but when you play well over there and nobody says anything and it's quiet, um, that was Captain Watson's big deal is listen for the silence. Uh if it's quiet, it's good. It's just totally opposite, right? Um, so uh it was quiet a lot. I mean, we we I think we only won by one point, but it felt like we won by more. Uh you know, it was neat to see you know, Davis made the putt to win, uh to to clinch it, uh, which was fun. Um it was a good week. It was a really nice week. It's good to win over there.

Mike Gonzalez 41:44

And then you came back here in 95. That was the year you had a good year. You led the team actually with four points. That was when uh Lanny and again uh Gallagher uh were captains.

Corey Pavin 41:54

Yeah, and that that's the story. I was I should have said that's what I meant. It was in '95. I played really well. Uh one of the coolest things that happened in '95 a couple weeks before the Ryder Cup, uh, Lanny called me up and and he said, Look, make sure you're ready to play five rounds. Because that's my plan, is to play you all five rounds. And it was it was one of the neatest calls I've ever gotten. It was a very it was such a compliment from a guy who's won 20 times on tour and won major championships to to have that vote of confidence in me. Um, so I I took it to heart and I I worked out hard and and did a lot of cardio and made sure I was ready to play, you know, four or play five rounds of golf that week uh under a lot of pressure. Uh I played very well. Uh as you said I was four and one. Um a lot of fun things happened that week. Yeah, I shipped in on 18 on Saturday, which was very cool. Um the uh bad part was we didn't win. Uh it was a very strange feeling to play that well and lose. Uh it wasn't a happy place afterwards, you know, in our team room. Uh you give it your all and you come short. It's it sucks. You know, it's not fun.

Mike Gonzalez 43:16

Well, let's talk a little bit about your experience as captain because uh you were honored to be selected as captain of the Ryder Cup team for the U.S. in 2010. And uh you took your team to Celtic Manor, where uh uh Colin Montgomery was on the other side as captain. Uh take us a little through that experience because that's a lot of work, isn't it? I mean, that's not just a couple weeks before you you know throw some ideas together. That's a long process.

Corey Pavin 43:41

Yeah, it's it's two years of working on it, and uh you know, there's a lot of commitments, there's a lot of uh media stuff yet you you you need to do. And um, you know, for me, you know, that was all it was fine. Um, you know outfits, uh picking out golf bags, designing golf bags, uh Um talking to the players. The most fun for me was connecting with the players and talking to them, you know, about pairings and and what they think and you know, captain's picks and and all that stuff was very important. And then trying to pair everybody together, uh, that was the part I enjoyed by far the most, uh doing that in in the actual competition. Um, you know, the other stuff you have to do, and it goes with being captain and doing seating charts for dinners and things like that. As a captain, that's your responsibility. I was so honored to do it. And as I said, it's a great responsibility, and I wish we would have won. You know, we made a great comeback on Monday, as it turned out. Uh, but I know I did everything that I could do. You know, I prepared as much as I could prepare and got as much information as I could, and that's all I can do as a captain is do all that and say, Go play.

Mike Gonzalez 44:55

Yeah, I think when we visited with Hal Sutton about his experience at captain, I did ask him a question. I said, Hal, how many shots did you hit that week?

Corey Pavin 45:03

You know, uh the the players have to play, and you know, it's a shame that captains get some some throwback, but you know, I was fortunate. I didn't really get much. Um but uh you know, the captains aren't playing. Uh but it's a shame it happens that you get credit or you or you you you don't. You know, it's it it shouldn't be that way, but you know, somebody's got to take the lame sometimes.

Mike Gonzalez 45:27

You had a couple of other experiences in the President's Cup in '94 and '96, both wins, both in the same venue, one with Hale Irwin as captain, one with Arnold Palmer as the captain.

Corey Pavin 45:41

You know, the great thing about the President's Cup, you know, it's evolved so much over the years. Uh but the charitable part of the President's Cup kind of forced the hand of the PGA of America to do the same thing with the Ryder Cup, uh, which is a tremendous thing that the President's Cup has done. Um I think that competition is getting better and better, you know, no doubt about it. Uh it's they've had some close ones and uh it's different. Uh but it's a much more heated competition than it it has been. You know, I enjoyed playing in them. They were fun. And uh I had the opportunity to play in in the first two.

Mike Gonzalez 46:18

As we wind down our uh our story of Corey Paven here, I I I can't leave you without asking about the starring role you had in the movie Tin Cup.

Corey Pavin 46:29

Yeah, it was a fun thing to do.

Mike Gonzalez 46:31

Well what was your what was your line? Yeah, what was your line?

Corey Pavin 46:35

I can't believe a guy named Tin Cup's can could have his name on the trophy underneath mine. I think it was something like that. Uh we actually made up those lines. Uh uh again, Freddie and I were just sitting there and and director just said, make up something and say it like you're playing the tournament and just say it.

SPEAKER_03 46:52

Yeah.

Corey Pavin 46:53

And so we did, and they used it in a movie. So it was fun to be in a movie. It's you know, it's it's a cool thing to be in a movie. I mean, really, you know. So it was fun. It was good.

Mike Gonzalez 47:02

Bruce, there's a couple of questions we always finish with uh with our guests. Uh you want to ask uh Corey the first one?

Bruce Devlin 47:10

Yeah, so uh if you knew what you know now, when you first started playing as a professional, what would you do?

Corey Pavin 47:22

Right off the top of my head, the one thing I would do is is uh I think I would have been in the gym a lot more and uh uh doing things like that when I first came out on tour. I did a little bit later in my career, but um if I knew it then, you know, I'd probably do something like that. Um, you know, I think I went about my business pretty well, but I think I would try to get in, you know, be stronger.

Mike Gonzalez 47:46

So we'll give you one career mulligan, where do you take it?

Corey Pavin 47:50

16th Hall at Augusta, 1986.

Mike Gonzalez 47:53

You know, we asked Jack Nicholas that question. Uh he named three other shots, but they were other guys' shots.

Corey Pavin 48:02

That sounds like Jack.

Mike Gonzalez 48:04

Yeah, yeah. Guys that chipped in on him and stuff, you know. Yeah, I thought that was quite funny. So last question, Corey. How would Corey Paven like to be remembered?

Corey Pavin 48:15

Um gosh, as a golfer, you know, I'd like to be remembered as a as a guy that um you know worked hard and and kind of got, I always hate the phrase, get everything out of my game that I could. Uh but you know, I like to remember as someone that achieved the most he could achieve, got everything out of his game, that you know, uh kind of tenacious on the golf course, uh really good competitor, uh just loved to be in the fray. Uh, and a guy that just played the game of golf, just went out there and played in, you know, I like to work my way around the golf course. Uh, you know, it doesn't mean I have to hit every green, but just hit it in good places, play smart. Um, and I'd like to remember it as someone that grew the game, that helped people enjoy the game of golf. Um, I always have enjoyed helping people play better golf. Um, it it's kind of, I guess it warms my heart when I can get out there and someone can put a smile on their face by something that I helped them with too. So um, you know, obviously you want to be remembered for wins and things like that. Um, but it's more kind of, you know, uh emotional stuff or stuff inside, resilience, that kind of thing, uh, that that I like to hear comments about myself, I think.

SPEAKER_03 49:38

Yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 49:38

Well, Bruce, it it's been a delight having uh what I would consider my favorite all-time PGA pro am partner with us uh today.

Bruce Devlin 49:48

Well, you know, uh uh him wanting to be remembered the way he spoke about it. Well, it's uh it's easy to come across uh everybody agrees to that, you know, 28 victories as a professional, uh respected not only as a great player but as a gentleman. And Corey, it's been it's been fun having you on the podcast with us. We appreciate your time and your patience. Thank you.

Corey Pavin 50:12

Uh it's been a pleasure, you guys. Uh all the best of luck with all your future interviews. Uh it was really enjoyable to be on the show.

Mike Gonzalez 50:20

Thanks, Corey. Great to have you with us. Thank you for listening to another episode of For the Good of the Game. And please, wherever you listen to your podcast on Apple and Spotify, if you like what you hear, please subscribe, spread the word, and tell your friends. Until we tee it up again for the good of the game, so long, everybody.

Lee Trevino 50:46

It went smack down the fairway. And it started just like just smitch offline. It headed for two, but it bounced off nine. My cadets, as long as you're still in the state, you're okay.