Curtis Strange - Part 3 (Tour Wins and the 1988 U.S. Open)

Outro Music 0:07

Straight down the middle. It went straight down the middle.

Mike Gonzalez 0:13

Then it started to Curtis, you you mentioned that you really enjoyed playing golf with Lee Trevino. So victory number two, 1980 at Michelobe Houston Open at Woodlands Country Club. And uh there you are in a playoff with him.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

Yeah, I uh uh I love Lee. Uh uh he's always been extremely nice to me. I think he's the greatest ball striker that I've ever seen by far as far as hitting shots when it counts. Um not just on the practice team, but when it counts. Um he's a genius. Um he's fun. Uh he was terrific. Um he was absolutely terrific. Uh when I when my dad played in uh the 1968 US Open, um and he came back and got home either late that Sunday night, so the next day, Monday, we were talking, and I just couldn't wait to hear all the stories. Um Lee Trevino was the guy he could talk about that he saw hit balls. This Lee Trevino guy, he was different, but he's really good. And uh it was uh it was it and he was right. Um but anyway, he was uh I I met at this playoff against him, and I, you know, you're not intimidated, but you know he know damn well this guy doesn't even know my name. Yeah. So my my goal was to make him learn my name. And so, you know, in a in a I can talk like that now, but I just you know I'd been I was playing well, and so it was a par three, so all I have to hit is one good shot, and I hit a good shot and made a 20-footer. But the the the part about this that I always remember and I always remember uh always uh remind Lee is that when he shook my hand, it was that dead fish, Bruce. Mike, it was that dead fish handshake that he gave me. And I always remember I said, you know, for Christ's sake, Lee, it was my second wedding. Give me a little bit of give me a little bit something there. But anyway, it was funny. He was laughing. But you know, I remember he was he was upset, he was mad at himself, and uh, and that was a good thing. Yeah, absolutely. But uh he was uh but he was uh he was he's been a great friend over the years, and uh it was a it was uh a very exciting time to win in a big place like Houston with with so many fans and and and Bruce's golf course. No, what that was before your we played your golf course, Bruce.

Bruce Devlin 2:35

Yeah, I don't think you played that.

SPEAKER_01 2:37

Yeah. Uh but anyway, it was uh it was exciting and and and Lee and I became friends.

Mike Gonzalez 2:42

Well, Bruce, you had a chance to uh probably see Ben Hogan a lot more than than Curtis, but you talk about great ball strikers. Uh uh Hogan's got to be right up there too. How did you view that? Because you played with Lee a lot. You you probably did Hogan a lot.

Bruce Devlin 2:58

Uh to be quite honest with you, I think they are the two greatest players that I've ever seen play the game. I'm talking now about ball control, the height of each club that they hit, uh, the consistency. Uh I took my son to Shady Oaks one day, and I uh Mr. Hogan was hitting balls off the off the 18th T and I said to him, Look, see the see the top of the clubhouse there. Just just watch Hogan hit these three drives, because he used to hit three drives when he practiced by himself. I said, just look at the top of that uh chimney on the clubhouse and see where that ball goes relative to the top of that uh chimney. So in answer to your question, I always felt like Hogan was the the best, but I gotta tell you something, he won far in front of Trevino, and I agree with you, Curtis. He was one hell of a player. And great for our game, too. He was a, you know, he's made a hell of a contribution to the game of golf Trevino has. Yeah, he has.

SPEAKER_01 4:03

And let me qualify one thing. I never saw Hogan hit balls, so that's why I say Lee Trevino. Yeah. I say Lee Trevino was the best that I ever saw, certainly qualifying that Hogan and and so many people mine was the best. And uh although Jack Nicholas says Trevino, I was with him at dinner when he said Trevino publicly that was the best. But anyway, uh they were one-two. And of course, you got to put Byron Nelson in there. And yeah, uh, they say he was phenomenal for a short period of time. And you know, I'm always I'm always um uh protective of Sam Sneed, as great as he was. And you know, Brees, think about that era in our game. That's that's the beauty of of the history is that we had three of the greatest players in the history of the game playing against each other, all just about the same age back in the 30s, 40s, 50s, and in Sam's case, on and on and on. But uh they were they were unbelievable players back in the day. Yeah.

Bruce Devlin 5:02

Yeah. The game is uh the game has changed so much that one wonders whether uh whether it's gone for the good or or the not so good as far as the game is concerned from a from a playing standpoint, the ability to play and control the ball, uh seems to me like you know, it's smashing gouge a little bit today.

SPEAKER_01 5:29

You know, I think that's some of the big big hitters um and some of the top players who hit it so far, um I think that would be a a somewhat of a decent description. Um but I think there's still some players out there that don't hit it so far, that uh play more of the game that we're familiar with. Um you know, this Brian Harman shows up on the leaderboard a lot, and he's not he's he's uh you know below average in length, and you still have you know uh uh there's there's a number of them. And uh and they don't they don't show up a lot. Actually, they show up quite a bit, but they don't win a lot because of the distance factor. But they still play a game that uh is reminiscent of of what we did. You know, fairways gotta put it below the hole, yeah. You know, got to take advantage of the 100-yard wedge shot on par fives, got to chip and putt well, gotta be mean, gotta be a tough guy. Kevin Kinsner's another one that comes to mind. So uh uh, you know, I still think there's a place in the game for a guy who's an average hitter. I do too. But he's got to be very, very good. Yes. Got to be very, very good. And uh he's gotta be meaner than a snake. Uh Hogan-esque, I like to say, and I and I say that with all due respect. Tough guy, very, very accurate, good chipper and putter, and and and and and just does his own thing.

Mike Gonzalez 6:52

Let's talk about uh win number three, which also was in 1980, manufactures Hanover Westchester Classic at Westchester Country Club by two over Gibby Gilbert. And I would guess probably back in 1980 the paychecks at Westchester were pretty good.

Bruce Devlin 7:07

That was a big one.

SPEAKER_01 7:09

You know, they were getting up there. They were getting up there because Westchester was always a bigger purse than the rest. Um I believe I believe it was like$72,000. Um at this point, you know, at this point, yeah, the money's important. Um but we're getting to a stage that everybody gets to to a stage where, yeah, you're paying the bills and and you know, you're starting to have children, and and you it's important, trust me. It's very, very important, it's exciting. But after that big old check, you get on the 18th grade and you give that back, and you move on to the where you go on the next that night to the next tournament, and you've got to be at an outing the next day or a pro am, and then you got to practice on Tuesday. So you move on, uh, you know, let's do it again. That's the mentality. And when I said the energy to earlier about to continue this, do this every day, that was the attitude is that you know, you know, you get a couple of congratulations on Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday, and Thursday. Nobody gives a rat's rear end at what you did the next week. Uh the next week. And you and you and you've got to prove yourself all over again. And start again. And you know, every January 1st, I always got very, very nervous, Bruce, when I was getting ready to pack and go out to the West Coast. I mean, one year I got I got almost stressed out because I'd played well the year before, and and I was so upset that I had to start even again. And because you beat these guys to death. There's a lot, some of you beat to death, and I'm even with this guy? Really? You know, one of those things. And I was so I just kind of you got to realize it's a long year, you just gotta do it over and over and over. And uh, and sometimes it's you've had a month or six weeks off, you've got to get back in that mode. And but anyway, uh Westchester was uh was great. I I didn't play well the last non-holes. I was fortunate, but uh uh I I beat Gibby and Gibby's another Gibby one was another one who was a great old friend, wasn't he? Yeah, fun guy to be around.

Bruce Devlin 9:14

Still around, still uh plugging away. He's a good guy.

Mike Gonzalez 9:21

Let's fast forward to 1983. The Sammy Davis Jr. Greater Hartford Open. Of course, everybody knows that that tournament was so well supported by that local community, seemed to be a popular stop for a lot of guys. Uh in this one, you you got into your old roommate's uh knickers a little bit, I guess. Yes, he did.

SPEAKER_01 9:42

You know, uh I think though what you just said really hit home back in the day. Um it was the community with all these tournaments, it wasn't corporate sponsorship. Um, it was the community had to raise the for our listeners, the communities had to raise the purse with little sponsors here, little sponsors there. They had to raise the purse, and therefore, if they had anything left over, they went to charity. And everybody gave something back, but it was not nearly the the numbers that we give back now. But thank goodness to corporate America and thanks everything they've done for us. But it was a different world back then. And we went to places like Hartford and Pensacola, and not New York, that was a different world, but some of these small communities in which we played Columbus, Georgia, uh Tallahassee, Florida. I mean, you you when you look back on it, you commend these communities so much for the effort they put in. And therefore, it was a community effort, and all the people came out to the tournament to watch and be a part of it. And there were so many people with such enthusiasm at these places, uh, and in many cases was the biggest party in town for the year. So Hartford was one of those. And uh uh what I remember about Hartford is that it was I played so well in 1980, uh, won two tournaments, and I didn't win in 81 or 82, and played really well, had a lot of top tens, but just didn't win. Uh, my own fault in a lot of cases.

Mike Gonzalez 11:11

You know, Curtis, you talk about the community thing, the example always comes to my mind, and it's a little before uh year time, but Bruce remembers the Robinson Open, which is down in Southern Iowa, close to where I grew up, and and uh I'm going back now to 1969, 1970. So, Curtis, you and I were in eighth grade and freshman at high school. I caddied those two years at the Robinson Open. It's a town of less than 10,000 people. Uh all the townspeople got involved in fundraising and selling tickets and raising money. Dick Heath ran the Heath Candy Company, and that's the only reason they had a tournament was he he took that place over and put the pulled the community together and put a PGA tour event on for several years down there, and that's just the way it was done.

Bruce Devlin 11:55

Yeah. Well, and picking up on what Curtis said, even the Houston Open Curtis back in those days, that was run by the Houston Golf Association. And they, yeah, that they had they probably had a hundred and fifty people that were beating the doors of all the people trying to raise money to, you know, to get that purse up where it where it was in those days. So uh you were right. It was a big community effort rather than the corporate sponsorship that we see today.

SPEAKER_01 12:23

And it was more of a a family atmosphere, I think, a little bit too. Not not demeaning what's going on today, but from the club standpoint and from the gallery and from the people, I think it was a warm and charming, fun week for all.

Mike Gonzalez 12:42

Felt a little more personal.

SPEAKER_01 12:45

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we didn't have free food in the locker room. Lunch was the hot dog stand out by the practice tea. Um you know, it was just it was a different world, and so you uh you didn't expect a lot and uh you didn't get much. Um I never forget Charlie Cootie told me, and I think it was Charlie, who I saw at Seminole watching his grandson at the Walker Cup. Uh he uh he said, We all played LA because it gave us free Coca-Cola in the locker room. I love those stories. I love those stories. Uh fans, it takes you back, and that's why I so appreciate all those who came before me. And and Bruce, you're one of them because you paved the way for us to have the the to have what we had, and then hopefully my generation paved the way for the one after me and the two after me and the three. So anyway, the point is is that it didn't happen overnight.

Bruce Devlin 13:44

No, it didn't happen overnight. You're correct, absolutely correct.

Mike Gonzalez 13:48

And that experience on the road, you know, you mentioned last time about traveling with the Jacobsons and the Haases and the Rogers and the Litskys and the Watkins and the Crenshaws, and and uh, you know, oftentimes you guys are on the course, your wives are following you around uh or tending to the kids at the motel. Uh Bruce, I remember I I'll never forget the story that Gloria told me about uh, you know, back in the day with you guys playing and she's following you around, and uh, she'd be standing in the trees behind a green, and all of a sudden Arnie or Jack would walk up to sneak a cigarette from her.

SPEAKER_01 14:24

Yeah. Well, all the guys knew, yeah, all the guys knew everybody's children's names, and certainly the wives and girlfriends. It was uh it was it was really a lot of fun to think about some of those times. As I said earlier, uh uh Bruce, it was uh, I think I I remember a lot of those things with more fondness than Sarah because it wasn't the Ritz Carlton every night, trust me. Yeah, that's right. No, it wasn't it wasn't you know chopped steakhouse every night. It was it was cafeterias and movies after it and and and small motels, but uh it we were doing what we wanted to do, wasn't it? Yeah, yeah.

Bruce Devlin 15:02

I'll I'll I've I've said this story before, but you'll get a great kick out of it if you haven't heard it. Uh Glory was with me with the two kids, and uh we were traveling from from Houston to Oklahoma City in a Greyhound bus, and uh we stayed at a little motel room, and I picked up the two suitcases that we had, and I walked in the front door, and it was a little a little airy before you stepped down into the living room, and and I walked onto that little uh landing area and fell through the floor. Uh it was it it wasn't uh like you said, it wasn't the Ritz Carlton, I can assure you of that. So, you know Greyhound bus, two kids, uh fall through the through the floor as you walk in through the door. That was uh that was a story.

SPEAKER_01 15:58

Sarah and I were driving from uh Palm Springs to Tucson one year uh late Sunday afternoon, and for those who don't know, between Palm Springs and Tucson, there is nothing. And we ran out of gas. Lovely. We ran out of gas, and all we all I could think about are the stagecoaches back in 1880 came across this area. Uh and we some guy in a Volkswagen, a Volkswagen Beetle, he was a hippie going east. I don't know why he wasn't going west, but he was going east with everything he owned, and we got in the front seat and he took us to the gas station, and then we hitched a rod with a family back to the car and um started her up. And Sarah was not pleased with me that night.

Bruce Devlin 16:48

Of course, it was you it was your fault because you were, you know, you didn't stop and get gas.

SPEAKER_01 16:55

No, it's exactly right. I didn't stop and get gas. I was worried. I can make the next exit, which didn't happen. Uh anyway.

Mike Gonzalez 17:05

You could have used the GPS back in those days, probably.

SPEAKER_01 17:08

Oh, isn't that the truth? What did we do before Lexa, Alexa, and GPS and uh Google, Mr. Google?

Mike Gonzalez 17:18

I don't know. I don't know how you guys got around, planned all those trips. Well, you know, you you had the triple-A trip ticks or whatever the heck they called them.

Bruce Devlin 17:24

Yeah, we had plenty of them, that's for sure. Yep. Yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 17:27

All right, so I I will I will admit to you guys that um I did not recall the legit golf classic.

SPEAKER_01 17:37

Abilene, Texas. Abilene, Texas. Abilene, Texas. Homer. I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't pick out Abilene, Texas on the map now, Bruce. Oh, of course you could.

Bruce Devlin 17:48

I'm I'm not that far from Abilene. I know, I know.

Mike Gonzalez 17:53

Is this Charles Cootie's place, Bruce?

Bruce Devlin 17:55

Yes, it was. Back in those days, it was. Oh yeah, for sure. So 1980.

SPEAKER_01 18:01

Legette was an oil and gas company that uh they got in a golf for a number of years, and they were wonderful people, very generous people. And um uh Wendy, good gosh, Wendy. Flat, good gosh, flat.

Bruce Devlin 18:16

Hot, yeah, hot too.

SPEAKER_01 18:17

And um we uh I won I won with the first time with the metal wood at LeJette. Taylor made burner, first time I ever won with a metal wood. Oh boy. You know, you have these things that pop into your mind when you think about tournaments. Uh that uh, and that was the one that comes in there. Uh it was uh it kind of I don't know if I was the first guy to win on tour of the Metalwood, I doubt it. But uh it was uh it it was it golf was going through a huge transition at that time with metal and some graphite and the ball. So uh it was a big time in our game.

Mike Gonzalez 19:00

Yeah, because uh uh Gary Adams founded Taylor made in 1979, and that's the first year he uh he pulled it out to the practice tee. I can't remember who the pro was that used the used that club. So I mean, night you you're now you're in 1984. You must have been a holdout, or were you still one of the early adopters?

SPEAKER_01 19:23

Oh, I think there was a number of guys, not a lot, but there was a number of guys. I actually tried it that week because it came out low and less spinny. Didn't know didn't know the dynamics of anything about that. I don't think anybody did. But all I said, I'm gonna try it this week. What the hell? It's gonna be windy as it could be. Um the ball came out a low shooter, it was only eight degrees off, so I'll I'll give it a go. I'll give it a go. Nowadays, the press, you know, they make such a big thing if Rory changes putters. Hey, we all change putters. Why do you change putters? Because I can, you know? And I need to. And I need to. I'll never forget in LA one year. Uh it was when I started paying, I called Gary Hart at Ping and I said, bring me every make and model to LA on Tuesday that you make. So we brought like 12 or 15 putters, and I chose the ping zing, and I'd played really well with ping zing for the next 10 years. But anyway, you do it, you make a change. You're playing a gazillion golf tournaments. If I don't play well this week with a at a golf tournament, what the hell? I tried it. I gave it a go. You know, if if I don't care what putter, what driver, what sandwich. I always had the belief, Bruce, that if the face is squared impact, the ball went pretty damn straight. That's right. It didn't make a it didn't care what club it was, what driver. It might feel different, it might look different. You might have less trust in this one than you did the old one, but when she squared impact, yeah, those balls went straight. Yeah, they did. So um in all this PC, here's a funny little comment. All this PC going on now, I said on national television uh three years ago, I said, you know, you gotta remember it ain't the arrow, it's the Indian. Oh my gosh, when I get crucified. Yeah. So anyway, guess what? It ain't the arrow. It's it's not the Indian. It's or it's not the arrow, it's the Indian.

Mike Gonzalez 21:23

And everybody keeps buying arrows. You got it.

SPEAKER_01 21:27

You got it.

Mike Gonzalez 21:28

All right, 1985, Honda Classic at TPC Eagle Trace in a playoff with your good friend Peter Jacobson.

SPEAKER_01 21:36

Yeah, windy week. Windy, windy week on a really, really tough golf course with a lot of water. You know, I I was fond of a lot of Florida courses, Bruce. Um, but some of them to me overdid the water thing. And I think for us, for us, yes, because it's always so windy down there. Yeah, it is. For us, if it's tough for us and so dramatic from edge of Fairway to Lake, edge of green to lake, think. About the daily golfer. Think about the member. Who the hell wants to play a course like that? And that's when I made comments about our modern TPCs or some of the modern golf courses. That's who I was speaking for. Yeah. And but anyway, Eagle Trace was an extremely tough golf course and penal golf course. And um, and and Peter and I were were dear, dear friends. And you know, I it just kind of it's what happens. You play golf, and you sometimes you play against buddies, and sometimes you don't. And I came in on top there, but uh uh I'd already won earlier that year, so it was um it was already going to be a really good year, and I just wanted to continue on.

Mike Gonzalez 22:39

Yeah, you wanted Vegas that year, uh Panasonic.

SPEAKER_01 22:43

Big purse, biggest purse on tour. Yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 22:46

Who else just told us that?

SPEAKER_01 22:47

Five rounds, too. It was five rounds. Um I beat Tom Watson by a shot. I birded the last hole to beat Tom by a shot playing with him. And um uh I think it was like$180,000 first place.

Mike Gonzalez 23:05

Yeah, they pay I think Fuzzy talked about that, didn't he, when we talked to him a couple weeks ago. Same thing. He won there around the same time frame, and uh biggest purse at the time. It was uh and maybe this the the year after he won, it might have gone up to a million dollars.

SPEAKER_01 23:20

Yeah, it was the first million dollar purse. Um actually that's it was it was a million dollar when I won, and it might have been the first year, but the point is everybody played because it was so much money. Um I never felt like Bruce, I played a particular event or not because of the purse, but you did in this case. You certainly did in this case.

Mike Gonzalez 23:40

Yeah, for sure. And where did they play that? You remember some of those old courses? Because some of them don't even exist anymore, I don't think.

SPEAKER_01 23:46

Played the Dunes, played DI, played uh Desert End's not around, is it anymore? No. No what a good old golf course that was. Um uh we didn't play any of the new modern ones. There were all the old desert courses. Uh they were fun.

Mike Gonzalez 24:03

I think fuzzy won out there in a couple years before you did.

SPEAKER_01 24:06

Uh yeah. Let me tell you, let me tell you, let me tell you about an underrated player. Fuzzy Zeller. Always hit the ball in the middle of the club face. And uh Fuzzy was fuzzy. Uh he's there's never been any player like him. And you talk about good for the game, Bruce. Yeah. And uh, but he was really, really a good player and proven by two major winners, two major championships. So uh uh he was uh a name that gets forgotten once in a while when you talk about good good got not a great striker of the ball in the sense of straight, but he was one of those fellows that could hit it in the middle of the club face every single time.

Mike Gonzalez 24:54

You wonder how he how he what might have done uh had he had a solid back his whole career.

SPEAKER_01 25:00

Good point, yes. He fought injuries, yes.

Mike Gonzalez 25:05

Same year, 1985, Canadian Open, Glen Abbey, which is hosted that for many, many, many years by two over J.W. Nicholas and Greg Norman.

SPEAKER_01 25:15

Big, big win for me. Um Canada is uh is is is a minor major championship to me because it's a national championship, um, always big in the eyes of the players. Um lost his luster a little bit when when uh uh Tobacco Company um was the sponsor, and uh Dean Beaman and the tour, you know, uh didn't think tobacco should be a major sponsor anyway. For a while there, for a long, long time. It was a it was a huge tournament. And then getting paired with Greg, and Greg was a colleague of mine, uh peer of mine, uh, but still hell of a player. And then, of course, Jack. Um and we were paired, and galleries were just through the roof at Glen Abbey, a hard golf course, one that I played well on a couple of times and really shouldn't because it was such a long golf course. It played into Jack and Greg's hands. And my main thought going out there um was to do my job, you know, do my job. And I hit a driver two iron on the first hole, par forward, about a foot from the hole, and I said, Okay, you son of a bitches, game on. Yeah, you know, it's what I needed, it's what I had to do to myself. And uh, and so I birded the first, and then uh Greg didn't play very well that day, but Jack and I came down the stretch, and I was very fortunate to come out on top because I always have that on my little you know, feather in my cat that you know uh I didn't go against him but a couple of times, and I got him one time. And uh it was uh Jack doesn't realize that, but it means a great deal to people like me. It should uh not only play with him and to play against him, but to beat him. And uh he was frustrated too. Uh he'd never won Canada, never did win Canada. So uh sorry, Jack, but um I uh it was can you imagine? I and Bruce, you've been in those positions. I uh I uh it was huge for me to win a national championship to do it on that stage against those players, because you always want to beat the best or play against the best. Absolutely. And it was uh it was absolutely um uh a big deal to me.

Mike Gonzalez 27:30

And you won it two years later.

SPEAKER_01 27:33

Yeah, I did, and uh it was a another great thrill uh just to win the Canadian Open again. Um they um they were very nice people. Their golf starved up there, they they loved their game. Uh all the above, it was uh on a on a hard golf course once again. It was another thrill.

Mike Gonzalez 27:51

And uh one of the fellows that finished second was uh by three was Nick Price. And and Bruce, uh, you and I will be speaking with Nick on the show next week.

Bruce Devlin 27:59

Yeah, we got Nick lined up next week, which will be nice. And in between you two Canadian opens, you uh you won Houston again, too.

Mike Gonzalez 28:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:09

You know, Houston's been very, very good to me. Um I I you know what I think sometimes you play because you like the course, obviously. Uh play well. Uh the fans and the Houston town was a southern town like where I came from, and so they they're very, very hospitable and nice people. Nice, nice people. Great support for the tournament. And at this point, we had moved off the first golf course and moved to your golf course, Bruce, and I fell in love with that place. I really did like the golf course, and I thought it was a grand golf course for the membership and the tourists, but it fell in my hands. It was not overly long. Really had some greens, you had to keep it below the hole, and it just kind of fit in my it it it it suited my eye. Uh did that mean I was gonna play well there every year? No. But uh I uh I I I just was comfortable there.

Bruce Devlin 29:05

Well, thank you for the nice compliment, too, sir.

SPEAKER_01 29:08

No, I really did it. And you know that the everybody liked it very much too, because we had such a great field every year.

Bruce Devlin 29:13

Yeah, we did have a good field there.

SPEAKER_01 29:15

Yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 29:16

Continuing on with a good year in 1987, after that Canadian Open, you've got the FedEx St. Jude uh that you won uh by one over four other guys.

SPEAKER_01 29:27

Yeah, that was uh that was important because I didn't I played reasonably well that year, but I only won um uh that tournament. Um so uh no, back up for a minute. That was 86. Yeah, yeah, 87 of one Memphis. Yeah, and uh and and the World Series and some others. But anyway, in the World Series, yes. Um but uh you know what? I I when you think about Memphis in the golf course that we played, the old colonial Bruce, when Al Godberger shot 59, let me for our visitors, for our listeners, explain a little bit. Long golf course in the day, a little bit of hilly golf course, so never sure about distance judgment, and the grainiest Bermuda greens on the planet. And the reason I say that is because that would have been the top two, three, or four golf courses I would have bet that 59 was not ever shot on.

Bruce Devlin 30:25

I agree.

SPEAKER_01 30:26

Hard golf course to make a lot of putts, long golf course for all of us in the day, and Al Geiberger shot one of the greatest rounds of golf in in the history of the game to shoot 59. And can you imagine the pressure he made a what a 10, 12, 15 footer on the last hole for 59? My God, can you imagine the pressure to have you know exactly what's going on?

Bruce Devlin 30:49

But uh you're right. Can't imagine very, very difficult golf course back there, you know, using the clubs that we were using then. It was a it's a tough golf course.

SPEAKER_01 31:00

Yeah, we, you know, I hit into a lot of the par fours. Um the the the uh the the 16 was a two, three, or four iron, uh four was a four iron, eight was a two or three iron second shot. My point is, I made my living with four, five, and six irons. And you never really quite ever see these guys today hit those long clubs. So it was just a different game. Nobody's better than anybody else. But uh I uh I came to the last hole. Uh there were four guys in the clubhouse, say at 12 and apart. And I was 12 and apart on the 18th team. And I and I'll be quite honest with you, and this was not a nice thing to think, although it motivated me. I said, my motivation was to make four here, get the hell out of Dodge, and Rui ruined dinner for four other people. And I said that to myself. I said, you know, the last thing I want to do is go to a playoff because chances I won't win. So I hit a good drive, I laid up, I hit a sandwich to about six feet, um, and I canned her. And uh and and I don't know what happened to them, but who cares? They were all standing on the back of the green, and I saw all of them there, and I said, You guys, come on. Just watch this. So uh I made it. Yeah, just watch this, big guy. You know. Uh it's fun, but anyway.

Mike Gonzalez 32:28

Well, Bruce mentioned the uh World Series win also that year at Firestone by three over Fulton Allen.

Bruce Devlin 32:36

He was a beauty.

SPEAKER_01 32:38

Boy, he was a guy who could play a little bit too. He could. Uh let's just say what we won't say. Uh I just uh he he was a he was a nice player. He won a couple of two or three times on tour and uh around the world. Um but uh anyway, another golf course I never should play well on because it was so long. It seemed like every time we played there it was uh it was so soft and wet and soggy. But uh gosh, you talk about four woods into some par fours and two and three irons and sodhill lies. And uh but I you know I just kind of you just kind of make a few putts and you feel like you can get it done. And and uh but World Series was such great history there uh at uh at Firestone. It was a thrill to win on a golf course like that that all the greats of the game had played and it hadn't changed over the years. And uh uh it was um World Series was a big tournament.

Mike Gonzalez 33:40

Some guys seemed to play well there, too.

SPEAKER_01 33:44

Well, you know, so long, it wasn't the most narrow of golf courses, it would you know, but it was so long you had to drive it straight because the par fours were so long you couldn't get it to the green if you drove it in the rough. And again, it was always so wet and gnarly. That was another element that made it tough. But you know, courses don't have to be uh real tight, whereas the rough can still be very penal if it's long enough. And some of these courses in the day were were quite long. You know, 7,200 yards long was a monster for us. And so uh you couldn't get on, you can maybe get close to the on the second hole of the parfob, but it was a so therefore you had to put it in the fairway, and therefore my accuracy played to my strengths versus somebody like Norman or Nick Price, or some of those who might be a little longer.

Bruce Devlin 34:38

So 88, uh Curtis, that must have been, I think, your best year on the tour, wasn't it? Winning four times, including the open.

SPEAKER_01 34:49

Yeah, I got into a you know, at this point, Bruce, you know, you're kind of moving right along, and and um you're not thinking much about anything other than playing well. And if you don't play well, you you know it's it's a terrible week, and you know, you but you're doing well uh on a consistent basis. Uh you're comfortable in your skin, you're comfortable in the spotlight. All these things are progressing, and you don't know what's going on. Um like I said, it doesn't happen overnight. You know, the Martians didn't beam me down on a stage where I wasn't comfortable in. This has been a process for for you know almost 10 years on tour. And um, and you know you have respect from from your peers. That makes you comfortable. Um so I go out and I win uh um I went early on in Houston. And um that was uh that was a good start, uh being comfortable there. Anytime, any year you won reasonably early, it kind of felt like I was playing with house money the rest of the year. I won. It's gonna be a decent year now. Now let's play. And there wasn't the pr a little bit of pressure was off. And I went to Memorial uh some time after that, and uh I never played very well there because once again that was a difficult golf course, very, very fast greens, and uh uh played difficult that week and I and I played a great weekend and won Jack's tournament. And uh now it's now it's gonna be a really, really good year. Um I'm really really comfortable hitting golf balls. I'm comfortable over putts and putts are going in. And when putts go in, the rest of the game gets easy for me. And so I don't stress on putting iron shots into back right hole locations or back left hole locations. I can play a little more aggressively because I know I'm gonna get it up and in. I can do the little things that when you're not spot on, you you you you you're careful about. Um and so uh I go to the U.S. Open and everybody's talking about you're the favorite, you're this, or that, and the other. I didn't pay any attention. Um you can't. You can't allow yourself to do anything like that. Um, but I know down deep that I really, really like this golf course. The country club fit my eye. Uh it was not an overly long golf course. I drove it straight. I liked U.S. Opens. I'd already had a chance to win a couple U.S. Opens. I'd already had a couple of top four U.S. opens. I'd already played well. I was comfortable in that atmosphere, and I'm rambling now, but um, it's just the process of uh of playing well at a tournament. Now I still had to execute, but remember I was playing well. So a couple of good solid rounds, uh, got in contention, had the lead, um kicked it away on Sunday, um, was in a playoff against Nick Faldo on Monday, and now there's pressure like I've never felt in my life. Um Sunday night was tough. Um I didn't sleep well. The longest period of time for any professional golfer is from the time you get up in the morning to the time you tee off at 2.20 in the afternoon. You don't know what to do, you don't know what to think, you don't want to read the paper too much, but you do, you're curious. Um, what do you do? Uh you walk around the room, you don't want to get to the golf course too early because what the hell do you do there? So you make a have a long breakfast, you hang out, you make sure your your shirt is ironed really nicely. Uh you do all these little things that take a lot of time. And uh finally I get there about one o'clock, and it was time to go. And uh I still get a little emotional about it because it's uh once once we we, Bruce and you and I and all the other players, once we hit the locker room, it's game on. Uh the round has started to me. So I hit the locker room, now I'm by myself. Uh a couple people came by, they knew not to say much. Uh it's Monday morning. Uh, there's already a lot of people out there. Every shot I hit this day is gonna be the most important shot of my life. And it's gonna be magnified. But once I hit the practice T, you know, it's another round, so let's get it done. It was kind of, you know, once again, as I said earlier, you know, I love the line. Sometimes you just got to be a man, yeah. Man up and let's go get it done. I'm playing a great player. He's not gonna give me much. I can't give him anything.

SPEAKER_04 39:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:38

And I've often been asked, what did you think about going against Nick Faldo? And I said, Well, I knew he wasn't gonna give me much. I had to play well, but I was I was thinking to myself, he's thinking the same thing about me. And that's not an arrogant comment, but it's what I had to tell myself to to relax, to do everything to just play again to play the game. And uh I was nervous on the first tea, made a great part on the first hole, and the and the rest was uh I played well.

Mike Gonzalez 40:11

How well did you know Nick Faldo at that time?

SPEAKER_01 40:14

Uh nobody ever knows him well, well, even to this day. Um, and I don't mean that in with disrespect, it's just Nick is Nick, and Nick is a very private, quiet person. Uh he's uh uh although I will say when you do a clinic with him, he's he's terrific. Uh he comes up with some wonderful one-liners. One liners, too. Great one-liners on TV in a clinic. He's funny, uh he's charismatic, but once he leaves that practice tee, you know, he doesn't say anything. And and you know, I'm often asked again, how many words were said out there in the playoff? And I said zero to one another. And that's the way it should have been.

SPEAKER_04 40:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:54

It was two guys in the heat of the battle going head to head. And once it was good luck, have a good day, that was the end of that. And uh, and that was fine with me. That was fine with me.

Mike Gonzalez 41:07

Well, let's go, let's go back to the fourth round on Sunday, and then we'll come back to the end of the playoff. Uh uh going into the country club, how familiar were uh were you with the uh history of that place over the years?

SPEAKER_01 41:20

Oh, I I I knew about the history of the game. I knew what had happened at the country club, I knew who had won, who had been picking at a playoff. I knew about Francis we met. Um I knew about the game of golf. So uh I knew I knew all of it, yeah. Um I didn't uh I knew of it uh on the periphery of of the game. Uh I certainly got to more uh uh uh intimate with it after the fact, but um, and with the movie and the book that came out and things like that. But uh uh it was uh we certainly knew. I didn't know much about uh uh uh the golf course itself, never seen it before. But uh I knew about what was going on there.

Mike Gonzalez 42:05

Yeah, so so again, Sunday round, if I recall right, you had a three-punt bogey on 17. Is that right? And then uh uh you were faced with a uh a must-have up and down from a greenside bunker on 18 to force a tie. Is that right?

SPEAKER_01 42:19

Yeah, I I I made a huge mistake at 17 and uh panicked a little bit and missed a four or five, four and a half foot or whatever it was. Uh my my bad there. Um and then I you know I drove it in the rough, short rough on 18, and I was left with a with a pickle of a shot. Um, if I go over the green, it was virtually impossible to get it up and in. And so my only chance, because it could be a fly or lie, was to, if I missed the green, to put it in the front bunker, and it didn't fly as much as I would have liked, but it was in the front bunker where I could get it up and down, and that was my process on the second shot. And that's the things you have to do. You got to take the lesser of the two evils. And uh my one, my one really, really concern when it blasted in the bunker was that it would be buried. And then it would be it'll pretty, it would be a uh just really, really tough up and in, but it wasn't buried. It was a simple up and in, but the situation made it tough, and I I got it up and in. And uh most important shot I ever hit in my life, Bruce. Not the biggest or the best, but it was the most important shot I ever hit in my life was the bunker shot.

Bruce Devlin 43:22

Yeah. Takes a lot of guts to do it.

SPEAKER_01 43:26

Yeah, you you know, it it's just I stepped in the bunker and I said, You dumb son of a bitch, you've done this 10 million times. Do it. Just do it. And you gotta, you know, you kind of gotta do it, you know. Gotta trust in your gotta trust in your hand-eye coordination and uh and get her done, you know. Tom Watson said a great thing one time that I'll never forget. He said, When he gets in a bunker, there's three things that can happen. And they're all good. I can hit a poor shot. And make a good putt for par. I can hit a good shot and tap it in for par. Or I can hole it. And I'll always remember that.

Bruce Devlin 44:10

It's pretty good.

SPEAKER_01 44:11

And uh pretty good thinking. And I'll always remember that. I didn't know it at that time, but I learned I heard him say that after that. And I said that that is a a great lesson for a lot of people.

SPEAKER_04 44:22

Yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 44:23

So take us to the back nine then of the Monday playoff, uh, because I know Faldo struggled a little bit coming in the last few holes, but uh where where'd you set sort of in the middle of the back nine uh relative to Faldo?

SPEAKER_01 44:37

We were uh we were playing decent golf. It was a windy day, it was a lot of pressure. Uh we weren't it wasn't a great round by any stretch for for either one of us, but it wasn't about it wasn't about playing great golf, it was about beating that guy. Um we were um we were pretty even after nine, I guess, and and then uh uh I think I went one up at eleven or so, and then at 13 was the was the was the big change. I made a 30-footer down the hill for Birdie, and he made bogey, and so I went three up. Now it's about holding on. And so um uh I bogey 15, sloppy bogey. Um I was getting anxious. Um anyway, uh I parred 17. He made bogey at 17, so I went to 18 with a couple two or three shot lead. But the point is, it's uh it's just a nerve-wracking day. That it it's not so much nerves, is that you're never comfortable on the golf course you try to get, but you're never really comfortable in any shot because you know it just means so much.

Mike Gonzalez 45:53

Thank you for listening to another episode of For the Good of the Game. And please, wherever you listen to your podcast on Apple and Spotify, if you like what you hear, please subscribe, spread the word, and tell your friends until we tee it up again for the good of the game. So long everywhere.

Outro Music 46:13

It went smack down the fairway. When it started to slice, just smidge off line. It headed for two, but it bounced off nine. My caddy says long as you're still in the state, you're okay.