Dave Stockton - Part 1 (The Early Years and PGA Tour Wins)

Intro Music 0:07

Straight down the middle. It went straight down the middle.

Mike Gonzalez 0:13

Then it started to Welcome to another edition of FORE the Good of the Game. And Bruce Devlin when they coin the old adage drive for show and putt for dough. Could they have been thinking about our guest today?

Bruce Devlin 0:28

Well, a lot of people would say that. He's probably one of the greatest putters that ever played the game, but he also had a pretty good golf game as well. He wins two majors on the regular tour and three on the champions tour. Been a good friend of mine for a long time. I voted for him actually back in 1967 when he came on the scene at Colonial and won the tournament. So welcome, Dave Stockton. We're glad you're with us.

Dave Stockton 0:59

Bruce, great being with you and Mike also. Appreciate you guys reaching out to me. And uh not sure what kind of a story about me you can tell, but it uh it's been a marvelous run for Kathy and I uh to leave California in the mid-60s and not being from the middle part of the country and starting driving. We'd leave we leave every year the first three years in February and not come back till October. And uh it's kind of as Bruce knows, our gypsy way of life. Our our friends become all our people we play against, competed against on the tour. But uh yeah, I've gotten to go through life without having to work, so it uh it's been quite a ride.

Bruce Devlin 1:35

We we don't see many gypsies today in in cars driving around with their wife and kids, do we?

Dave Stockton 1:43

Things have changed a little bit. Just a little bit. I can still see the Whartons driving down the Texas Road with their their little dog, what have they they called it some small name, and all of a sudden it we could see they're like in a Volkswagen, a small car, and this gigantic dog that weighed 130 pounds sitting between them. But uh yeah, it it's a little different. They have uh different way of traveling with the private jets and everything else, but uh, you know, they make enough money now they can pay for that. And uh I think we we wouldn't trade anything we had. I mean we we we did a lot of we bonded a lot because we had to with little little pods of people going town to town. Yeah, absolutely.

Mike Gonzalez 2:23

Well, we've had a chance to hear from a lot of our guests about those same on-the-road stories, and I'm sure we'll get to a few of those because life was different. Maybe we just start, Dave, uh uh just at the very beginning. Tell us a little bit about growing up in California, how you came to uh find the the the game of golf and some of those types of things.

Dave Stockton 2:41

Well, um my dad was a really good player. Uh he uh was an all-American at USC and uh won the Pac 8, I think, back then. In fact, my dad and I were the first father-son to win and become all-Americans in the same sport at USC. Um But I I like playing baseball and basketball. And when I was younger, our golf my dad was a pro at the club and the mowers would mow our backyard. I mean, we were right on the golf course, but uh golf was not my most popular sport at that point in time because you could run out in the backyard and play baseball or basketball or football or something. And it wasn't until I hurt my back when I was 15 that I seriously decided I the only way I was gonna be able to get a college scholarship was to play golf because I, you know, I had a vertical leap of about three inches and uh basketball and and baseball. If the ball would sit on the ground, I had a hard time getting down to it because I wasn't fleet of foot or, you know, in great shape. But uh so at 15 I started practicing. Uh but during that, from the time I was 13 on until I graduated from USC at 22, uh I worked every summer in construction. And so the kids that I would beat in May would kill me by the end of August because they had played golf all summer. The most tournament I ever played in the summertime were three. And I think that's one reason when I came out on tour, and luckily, thank God, there was no qualifying school in '64. I simply sent my money in and played the Almanen Open and then the Cajun Classic down in Lafayette, Louisiana, which was important because if you made the cut, which I did, uh you'd get in the LA Open, the closest one to our town, uh, San Mardino. And so I came out and I don't think anybody knew who in the heck I was. It wasn't in my junior year of college that uh I thought I could see a future that I might be able to play. Uh not I just I I have tremendous drive, and when I hurt my back at 15, I lost whatever yardage I had. I mean, I was Bruce, you know, he'd dock at 30, 40 yards by me. And uh I had to I had to just play my own game and not and realize that I had shortcomings. But if I had a good mental game and a good short game, I was going to be all right. But uh Guyberger was my idol. He followed me. He was ahead of me at USC. He graduated in 59 when I graduated from high school. He was four years ahead of me. And uh I kind of modeled myself after him if he was with Munsing where I was or Spaulding or whatever. And uh so I had some good mentors out there and uh they can they they took care of me.

Mike Gonzalez 5:15

So who was most instrumental in shaping your game? I assume it was your father at a young age, yeah.

Dave Stockton 5:21

No, it was very definitely my dad. Uh he was it it was it was interesting. In fact, on the wall behind me, you won't see it right here, but he had picture of him having an exhibition with Walter Hagen in 1936. Uh my dad was a really good player. I shot 164 here at Arrowhead, he shot four six threes. Um he just he he but he was a really good player, but there was no place to play in the 30s. Not when he had a wife, and you know, when I was born in kids and 41 and everything else. So dad, dad actually went left, he kept his pro card, but he opened a sporting goods store, and uh, which was the dream for any kid to have your dad own a sporting goods store from putting a bowling ball through the glass front door or a highlight ball through the window. I mean, I I raised havoc in the sporting goods store, and but I that's I kind of liked all different sports, enjoyed it.

Mike Gonzalez 6:13

So when did your game really develop?

Dave Stockton 6:16

I it it got really good toward the senior tour. And Bruce's gonna laugh at this, but uh, I did, I did, I hit my peak at the on the senior tour. I Kathy got me in stretching, and I this Adrian Crook, a guy that worked with Olympic athletes, uh Karch Karai, who in fact is the volleyball coach right now over in in in uh Japan in the Olympic Games. Uh he was one of the ones that worked with this guy, and I got so limber for me, it was unbelievable. And uh and Ronnie, after my dad died in '83, Ronnie at 15 started coaching my younger son. And uh by the time I hit the senior tour, I could flat play. I mean, I remember I almost pulled it off two weeks in a row at Park City in Seattle where I won by 10, uh, two weeks in a row. If Dale Douglas hadn't jumped me in Seattle on 17 and made a birdie when I made a double. But uh it was uh, you know, I I I survived on the regular tour. I said mentioned before that Guyberger was one of my mentors or you know, tried to show me the ropes and everything. Uh but he would take two weeks off and two weeks on. And so I thought, well, maybe I'll try that. Well, Guyberger's swing was such he could have taken two months off and come back and still played. If I took a week off, it took me a week to get back to where I was. If I took two weeks off, it probably took me a month to get back. So consequently, I played a ton of tournaments. And because I, you know, I love to hunt and fish and garden and do other stuff. So I'm not the most diligent practice and practicer, and my and my back wouldn't allow me to do that. So I had to, you know, kind of forge my game, and it was a never-ending process, really.

(Cont.) Dave Stockton - Part 1 (The Early Years and PGA Tour Wins)

Mike Gonzalez 8:01

Bruce, why don't you share the story that you shared about Hogan and what he said about getting away from the game for a day or so?

Bruce Devlin 8:08

Yeah, well, that's uh David was right. You know, so uh Hogan always said to me, I said to him one day, Dave, uh I I think we were playing a practice round in Houston, and he's and I said to him, So, Mr. Hogan, how many how many days a year do you take off? And he looked at me like I'd handed him a snake, and he said, Days off. He said, I I hope you realize that if you take one day off, it takes you another day to get back to where you were the day before. So taking days off doesn't work. You gotta hit balls every day. So you followed in his footsteps.

Dave Stockton 8:46

Well, well, I I did to a certain extent, but with my back, I mean I literally, and that's when I teach people, Bruce, with the with the putting and short game, I ask them what their hobbies are. And if you know, you you well know, uh, Jack Nicholas was the best we played against. Yep. And now you got Tiger, okay? And I love listening to Brandel Chambly talking about this swing and that swing and comparing them, and I'm going, it's all between their ears. I mean, I don't care what swing they're using. I mean, Doug Sanders got by with what he had. Absolutely. There's all different ways to do it. There's no particular way, but if you don't have a good mental game, and that's why I ask them what their hobbies are, because I will take, I'll take a couple of months off in the fall, and and it just rejuvenates me. I can be sitting on top of a mountaintop or I can be duck hunting or whatever I'm doing, and my mind will go, you know, in March, you know, if I'd have done this instead of doing that, but when you're in the heat of the moment, you can't see that. You can't see right in front of yourself. Yeah. And so I there's a fine line. I mean, with my bad back, a long putting practice session for me was 20 minutes. I mean, I would think about what I did wrong or what I wanted to work on, and I'd get out there and do it, and then I'd I'd be gone. I mean, that's just it's it's what I had to do because of my physical limitations. So let us in on a secret then.

Bruce Devlin 10:05

What's up? What were your what were your things that you worked on when you, you know, why you became such a very good putter?

Dave Stockton 10:13

I think putting is the simplest part of the game. I don't think it relates at all to the rest of the game. Uh, in fact, when you're working with people, uh the first thing I do is have them sign their signature for me. Um and so they sign Bruce Devil and they sign it. And now I say, okay, it took you about three seconds to do that. And okay, now I want you to take 20 seconds, but I want you to duplicate that first signature. I want the B to be the same height, the same width, you know, so on and so forth. And they'll they won't be able to do the first letter. And I'll say, okay, now which one's the best? And they say, well, it's the first one. I said, why? And they go, Well, I guess I'm not thinking. So I say, Well, that's the first word you learn. You don't try. You you have you have to visualize. I mean, you seriously have to. So then we get on the green, and where most people's errors are in putting is they have no clue how to read a green, and they have no clue how to have a routine that just lets them get into it. And I have always I have always had an extremely fast routine because I figured how many people in the world didn't care if I missed or made the next putt. And so there is no wasted motion or time. I mean, my second major congressional on the 15-footer they had to make to keep out of a playoff there with with Floyd in January. Um I I from the time I put the coin down to the ball being struck was 14 seconds. Yeah, I know. I watched it, it was quick, Lloyd. Really? It's just well, it's e it's either going to go in or it's not gonna go in. So that what I started the conversation answering your question is the fact that I asked people what's their direction hand, and they will I'll I'll say, tell me you got a direction hand and a feel hand, it can be the same. And they'll automatically, if they're right-handed, say, well, the feel's right-handed. I said, Yep, you're right. Okay. Now the question is, which is your direction hand? And if they tell me it's their right hand, then they got trouble. They seriously got trouble. And because I said, Okay, now what's your left doing? Well, the left's not doing anything. Okay, so I was taught that my left hand in low chip shots and putting, the left hand's a dominant hand. And you tend, like a Steve Stricker, you tend to stand fairly close to the ball unless you have an eye problem like Bob Murphy and you move the ball away from you or something. Again, everybody's different, but I want to be pretty much on top of the ball. So the left hand, and I have them practiced with just their left hand. And like working with Tiger. Tiger adamantly thinks it's the right hand, and I he's probably one of the greatest putters I've ever seen. Especially if you're on the 18th at Orlando there at Palmer's course, and he has a highlight film for a hundred people wouldn't be able to do what he's done. And true. You know, he's made all these left-to-right putts that are almost impossible to make, and he made them dead center, and he believes the right hand, but there's no flip to it. And we see we see all these different grips now where you you got the saw grip and you got the left hand low. And it it you know, it's very few people are like speath that go left-hand low and then can still keep the left hand going. I know what they're trying to do, but they can't accomplish it. So for me, it's a long answer to your question, but I I firmly believe the reason most people can't putt is the ball's too far away from them and they're rotating the putter and the right hand's flipping. And when I get through putting, my dad always taught me he wanted the back of my left hand to go to the hole, and that there's the the butt of the club stays vertical, it doesn't point back toward your belly button. Because if you do, and you'll hear the announcer say it, they're gonna say, Oh, he really released that putter. That was great. And I'm going, I no more want to release a putter than I can fly. Yeah. Because then I can't control the speed. So the the tur first word I told you I don't want him to use is try. The second word I don't want him to use is hit. I want him to roll the ball. Yeah. And yet you see people that try to smash the ball in the hole. They change Mickelson's loves to do this. He gets two or three feet and four feet, and he's gonna ram it in, which is all fine and good. Do you miss one? And it's, you know, it's it's not as hard as it's supposed to be. I've made a lot of money trying to teach people how to putt, and that that's been more satisfying to me than the days I played because of the record of the people we've worked with have been unbelievable. The success we've gotten.

Bruce Devlin 14:30

Well, that was the reason why I asked that question. I wanted to know what, you know, because that's that's you you recognize throughout the game as a wonderful teacher of the putting format. So thank you for your answer, David. That was great.

Dave Stockton 14:44

Yeah, I'll let me add just one quick note to that is the fact the other thing my dad told me, which if people think about it makes a lot of sense. When I get into the ball and I don't take a practice stroke unless I do it from behind the ball, I don't. But like Annika had to, she had to be looking down the line, looking at the hole. Makes because she had to have a practice stroke, but then when she walked into the ball, she just walks right into it. Well, my dad, well, when I when I put the putter down and I look at the hole and I'm setting my feet, I'm looking at the exact spot. It's coming in at four o'clock or eight o'clock or six o'clock on a clock, whatever it might be. But then I come back and I come back to an imaginary spot and I ask people, where how far out do you think I pick a spot? And they get apex of the break, third of the way to the hole, all these different things. And the answer is one inch. And it's probably the best tip I ever got from my dad because he said, I want you to give me one inch of the putter going through the ball without any reaction to touching it. So you're not recoiling back, or like most people tend to come up on it, they come up and now make the ball bounce and they don't get the roll that I get. Very good. Yeah, it makes sense.

Mike Gonzalez 15:53

Does that uh take me back to a conversation we had with Steve Elkington lot long ago. He says uh he worked with somebody, it might have been Dave Pell's, I don't know, but they uh they put a laser on him and they measured how well he aimed. And his aiming at five feet, ten feet, fifteen feet, twenty feet was absolutely terrible. And he got thinking about, he says, wait a minute, put the put the put the laser back on, measure me at one inch. And he was dead nuts on. And so that's what he adopted.

Dave Stockton 16:20

Right? Was he curious? Do you remember if he was left or right with the laser? Probably left, I'd bet. Well, I I would hope so. I'm I'm I am never dead on. I am slightly left because I'm not letting my my left hand break down. My left hand, in fact, I'll put a T in the middle of the hole, somebody from four feet, and I say, okay, there's a dead straight butt. Where are you gonna aim? I said, I'm not gonna aim at that T. Do you think I'm aiming to the right of it or to the left? And three out of four are gonna say that you'll you'll aim slightly right. And I said, No, I'm gonna aim slightly left because then my left hand can't possibly break down. There you go. And in you know what I'm saying? Great tip. Great tip, Dave.

Mike Gonzalez 16:59

Yeah, let me ask a selfish question from a guy that's used a long putter for nearly 30 years. Uh, what do you do differently or teach differently to people that are using a long putter in terms of technique?

Dave Stockton 17:13

Um, try to get them in a short one. Um that's not gonna happen at my age. I figured that. Well, it's you know, what you try to do, and uh I guess one of the greatest examples of somebody we helped was Couture. Who normally I get the 180th, the 200 rank putter, let's say JB Holmes or somebody. Well, here's Couture, who was leading money winner in the year he came to us, and he was fifth in putting, but he used left hand low and he would flip it. And so I said to him, we're at the vintage, and I had both boys with me, and I said, Well, what's your direction hand? And I figured I know he put the left hand down, low, left hand low. And I said, Is your what's your direction hand? He said, left. And I said, Really? Make me a stroke. Well, he made this one-handed stroke with the left hand, and he didn't break down at all. And he had this watch band, white watch band, and I said, Okay, I want you to put your that that watch band on the club, and I don't want it to come off. I want you to get whatever forward press you need, but just keep it there. And so that's where he's gone to this longer, he went from no degrees of loft to almost eight, you know, and he had it up underneath his arm, all these different things. But he did get it where the left hand goes. Okay, if you're using a left-handed, you're using a long putter, and I work with longer some. Uh cost me a win at Houston when he killed me, and I finished third, and I just, you know, he made everything.

Mike Gonzalez 18:41

Uh that was his last lesson.

Dave Stockton 18:43

The the hard the hard part, again, and that gets the only problem I have with the lawn putters is usually they're extremely heavy, and it's hard to get much feel with them. You can get them rocking and you can you can have them go well. And you know, it it's whatever, whatever works. That's the one thing I don't understand. I didn't understand is that you know with the lawn putter, you can you have a terrible time in the wind, at least the guys I played with against. I'd watch Liskey and I watched uh Orville Moody and some of the other guys that use the refrum and some of the others. Uh it's it's just something you have to do. And if that feels comfortable, yeah, that's what you have to do. It's just uh again, you're gonna you're gonna stand pretty close to it. Most of the really successful ones, they're gonna be close to it, which to me is a great way to go. You know, I I have no problem with what somebody comes because I'm there is no if if you show me a teacher that's gonna teach somebody a method and tell everybody to do this, you're gonna help somebody and screw up ten people while you're helping one guy. Gotcha. You know, I th I think our job as a teacher is to make that person comfortable with what we're what as long as they walk out and hey, that really feels good. This is my stroke, and that's that's where you got to get to.

Bruce Devlin 19:58

That's like trying to swing the golf club like Van Hogan.

Dave Stockton 20:03

No, never have to worry about that. Yeah. No.

Mike Gonzalez 20:06

Well, I'm sure we'll come back to this before we're done today, but uh let me rephrase my original question uh in terms of the development of your game. So, as a young man, when did your game develop to a point where you thought you'd really uh do something seriously with it?

Dave Stockton 20:22

Probably I would guess when I was when I was playing at USC and I won the I won the Pac-10. Uh prior, it was interesting because when I was 17, my dad let me play. Actually, I got to play the first time playing three tournaments. The first tournament was the National Hirsch Tournament, uh where they had 13 different, they'd take two people from every one of the sections where they had their newspapers, and I our qualifying was at Riviera. And I went down to Riviera and they had like 100 people trying for the 32 spots, and I made a 10 on the first hole at Riviera and shot 75 and qualified, and nobody took me past the 15th hole. And I went uh I qualified myself and Tim Hap, who finished second to me, to go to Albany, New York, Wolfford Truce Country Club, where Kermit Zarley was there, and there were some names that I knew and everything. Um and I shot, there were 26 players. I was 25th after the first round with an 81. And three rounds later I finished second. And I went to the I went to the quarterfinals of the National Juniors at Stanford University later that summer. And I I got to realize that you know I could play with these guys. My swing didn't look like anybody else's. And so consequently, after four years at SC, you know, my dad, I had to come back. I had eight, I was eight units shy of graduating, so I came back and got my eight units because they weren't gonna let me turn pro unless I graduated. And so I met Kathy just prior to my last semester at USC, and uh we were married. Well, I went out. The the first two tournaments, I said the Almanen Open where I finished 10th. The first tournament I played in made over $2,000. I thought, man, this is going to be a killing. And I what I didn't realize, I think I averaged eight greens around. And I averaged about 24 putts around, right? And uh ran right into Howie Johnson in the last round. Took him two holes to start needing. Now, what do you do when you're doing this? And he's trying to needle me. And I said, Howie, as bad as you're putting, just good luck to you. I'm just trying to learn this game. And, you know, I'm I I've I was learning, I was learning, learning things that I never had to put up with before. But um I just had a belief in myself. My goal was I wanted to I I wanted to be my own boss. I didn't want to have to wear a coat and tie. And in Kathy, I found the perfect partner that we could we traveled. And so we started out, just got, we, we, I was at Alma, I was at the second term that I said in Lafayette, Louisiana, freezing cold, sitting in a Clifton cafeteria. Spicy food had nailed me. I wasn't feeling good, but I'd made the cut. And I called her, I said, we're not waiting until next summer to get married because if I'm gonna be miserable, we're gonna do this together because I'm I'm not enjoying this. And uh so we got married February 27th, and our life basically started. And it was, I mean, I was an instant success. I think the first year I made 5,000 and spent seven. My sponsorship, three different people put in $2,000 apiece. So I had $6,000 to work with. And the next year I had a great year. I made $8,000 and spent $10. And then the following year, thanks to Bruce, inviting me to come play Colonial, which I almost didn't come because I had a I had a house rented in Hot Springs, Arkansas, because when we didn't get in these tournaments, I'd go either to Country Coba, North Carolina, or I'd go to Hot Springs, Arkansas, somewhere I could fish. And my dad convinced me I really need to go to this. This is really a special tournament. And I didn't know Colonial from the Western Open. I didn't know anything about it. But uh Geiberger played me a practice round with me, and uh that was that was eye-opening. I shot, I had Ken still playing with me, and talk about a cheerleader. I mean, he was unbelievable. I mean, unbelievable. He he he remembers, devil. He remembered what the temperature was the day we played, who we played with. Hell, I can't remember any of that, you know. But I I shot the 65-66, and Hogan went by me in the locker room on Friday, never said a word. And I get paired on Saturday with uh Gardner Dickinson. And I wouldn't say Interesting. I yes, it was very interesting. Okay, Gardner didn't really like younger guys, and or foreigners. Yeah, and so it was so funny because I got out there and after after two holes, I had like an eight-shot lead. And when we were on the 16th T box, everybody else is finished, and we had a rain delay. Now, I don't know how many penalties they'd give now for slow play, but Gardner was just doing everything. Yeah, and I shoot 74, and I'm sitting in front in front of my locker on that Saturday mor that Saturday afternoon, and I hear this voice saying, Where's Dave Stockton's locker? Well, around the corner walks Mr. Hogan, and I come jumping up, shake hands with him and everything. He said, Davey, now he's in third place. Luckily for me, he's playing with Weisskopf now, because Weisskopf and I are tied. I've blown this eight shots. And he just turned and he said, You're playing really good. I know you expected me to say something yesterday, but you you got all the adulation and everything you should get. And he said, But uh, I just want to let you know you've gotten your bad round out of the way, you can win this thing. So totally under, yeah, just such a classy maneuver. And, you know, I mean, he started the tournament eagling the first hole, which is one more eagle than I've ever made at Colonial, but uh he it really it's been an inspiration for me because you know, I every year, as you well know, you go up there and look at his trophy room and you go through all this stuff, and now they could have got the plaques on the wall. And my son David was also a champion's choice like I am, but uh and his proudest moment standing between Ben Hogan, but he and I are standing on either side of Ben Hogan, and Ben Hogan assigned the picture to David Jr. and uh uh just a lot of memories. And so it helped me, it really helped me to win on that golf course because I didn't realize how great a golf course it was. Guyberger absolutely was flabbergasted because he had a terrible record there until he realized if I won on it, then maybe he better adjust how he was playing it. And uh, of course, he's one that he won Colonial, he won the players there, yeah. So he got back at me.

Mike Gonzalez 26:52

I'll provide a little context for our listeners. We got Dave Stockton talking about his first win at Colonial National Invitational, Colonial Country Club, and and both of you have alluded to this champion's choice uh uh thing. Uh, Bruce, why don't you explain for our listeners what that's all about?

Bruce Devlin 27:08

Yeah, uh the organization sends out a letter to everybody that's won a golf tournament, and there's a list of players that they put together. Uh players that have shown some success and in various areas as far as professional golf is concerned, and and the players get to choose three guys. They choose a one, a two, and a three, and they they get three points for one, two points for two, and one point for three, and then they add all the champions choice picks up, and uh David in 1967 received the I think you received the top points, actually, Dave. And they invite three players, uh, but yeah, he's he is still today the only champion's pick that has ever won the first year he played. Yeah, I didn't I didn't know where the trouble was.

Dave Stockton 28:00

I came back the sec I came back the second year and I had no idea that there was a river alongside the 11th hole. Oh, really? I'd been hitting driver off the ground going at the green. It never dawned on me. I never went over to solid trees. And then since since I was the champion of 67, you remember that's when they tore the thing up. Yeah. Remember? Because you could stand on the the 50 and you could see the green after they knocked most of those trees down. And that was terrifying. And they changed the eighth. The eighth was probably one of the greatest little par threes ever. Tough. Yeah, the green wasn't big enough to hit a sandwich to, and I'm hitting a three-iron at it. But uh no, it was unbelievable. But I did not know where the trouble was. I didn't have nearly the success the second year going back, I guarantee you.

Mike Gonzalez 28:45

And Bruce was on that uh champion's choice selection panel because he was the defending champion. He had won uh the year before.

Bruce Devlin 28:52

That's right, I had, yeah, yeah. So it was uh it was great.

Mike Gonzalez 28:57

We talked to Charlie Cootie a few weeks ago and uh uh we asked him about the colonial because we thought as a Texan uh that's one he really would have wanted to win, and he said, you know, I I played that for 25 straight years, and if there's one tournament I would have loved to have won, it would have been the Colonial.

Dave Stockton 29:13

Yeah, I can imagine. And it anything anybody says about that, it it is one of the truly gems of a golf course that we we played on. I I, you know, in this day and age with the slash and gouge and hit it a thousand miles, that's wonderful. But there were enough trees around, especially in 66 and 7 when you and I won before they changed it. You could seriously get when you got the wrong side of these trees, you were having a hard time getting it back in play. I mean, it was yeah, you had to know where it was going for the most part.

Mike Gonzalez 29:46

So you're glad you didn't go to Arkansas?

Dave Stockton 29:48

I it's it turned out really good. Yeah, I stayed in the Clifton, Clifton House? Yeah, Clayton House, Clayton House. Clayton House. Yeah, played a lot of brilliant. Yeah, university, yeah, no longer there. But uh it uh I I don't know. It just to me, I I loved it. I mean, that became my you know my my go-to place in Texas. And it the the interesting thing, and that's a lot on the record, is the one thing I'm really proud of, my record is some of the golf courses that I've won on, because I'm I'm known as a short hitter, but yet there have been some really good successes on some really long golf courses. And uh Colonial's right up there at the top of the list.

Mike Gonzalez 30:28

I'll back up for our listeners just a little bit. Um we're talking about Dave's first win in 1967. Uh, he mentioned turning professional in in 1964 and and had uh a marvelous record on the PGA tour with 10 uh wins on the on the regular tour, 14 on the senior PGA tour, which we'll talk about later, 25 total professional wins. And uh I think we want to get to some of those wins. What were you gonna say, Bruce? I don't remember.

Dave Stockton 30:58

I knew I was enjoying this interview.

Mike Gonzalez 31:04

Uh that's why we get to edit this kind of stuff out. Uh well let's let's talk about win number two, which was uh uh the Cleveland Open in 1968. Cleveland Open invitational at Lakewood Country Club by two over Bob Dixon.

Dave Stockton 31:19

Okay, well, let's back up one because that wasn't number two.

Mike Gonzalez 31:22

All right. Well, I missed one then.

Dave Stockton 31:24

Yeah, because you're trying to figure out how I got 14 on the senior tour and 10 on the regular, but I totaled 25. And that's because in October or September of 67, I won the Hague and Haig with Lori Hammer at La Costa, which was an op and an all-in-a-shot event play paying official money and everything else, and they took it away from me in the early 80s. And now they play an event on the tour in New Orleans where they're playing, you know, and they count it. Yeah, true. You know, so so clone, so you go to number three, happens to be Cleveland, and which is probably the one of the best stories ever because Kathy's expecting David. First of all, at Colonial, we decide we can have children. So now we're in, you know, we're in, we're trying to have children, and David's gonna come July 31st. Well, he's he's not coming when he should, and I missed a couple of cuts, and I'm gonna play the Cleveland Open because the doctor says the baby's he's late, but he's he's he's not coming within the next week or so. So I I arrive at Cleveland on the which was my summer home because John Plum was the spalding salesman when I was on tour, and when we leave in our car, we had no eastern home, and they lived at Lake Lucerne, which was east of Cleveland, out near Chagrin Falls and Kirkland Country Club and Canterbury, where I was gonna win the senior U.S. Open in '96. But that was our summer home. Well, I show up there really mad because I missed two cuts in a row, and I get there Friday, and they have this new house above the lake, and it had about 50 yards of grass, and they had about 15 or 20 yards of solid trees, and you couldn't see the lake. So I still I'm just I got to get rid of all this anxiety. So I get out there, I spend three days wiping out the trees and the brush. So now they got this beautiful view of this lake from their house. But I'm driving over on Monday to Lakewood Country Club on the west side of Cleveland, and I cannot put my fingers around the steering wheel. I mean, it will not, they won't, they won't close. I've just, that's how hard I've been working for three days. I feel great, right? But I can't play. So I was just back there a month ago, which was their 100th anniversary of Lakewood. And my caddy, who caddied for me in 68, was there. And how neat. Yeah. And so I mean now I'm asking questions because I don't remember the course. I don't remember what I shot. I didn't remember anything. I said, Did I play on Monday? He said, Oh no, you couldn't even, you couldn't even hold a club. I said, Well, what did we do Tuesday? He said, Well, we tried to play and we played five holes, but it was still so sore you walked off. And we played the pro amp on Wednesday, got in 18 holes, and then shot 69, 68, 67, 72, and won by two over Dixon, all of which I remember nothing. And he says, Don't you remember the eighth hole? I believe is what he said. It's par three, about 150 yards. I said, No, no, I don't remember anything. He says, You knocked it inside of five feet, four straight days, and made four twos on that hole. And I go, Well, you'd think I would remember that, right? So, at any rate, I I fly home afterwards, winning the tournament, which was that was, you know, now that validated colonial because that was an individual event. It wasn't a team event like the Hagen Haig was. Come home. Kathy and I go to the doctor, and the doctor says, I don't know what this baby's doing, but it's not coming. So I had entered Milwaukee and I flew out to Milwaukee and room with Guyberger, and we're playing North Shore. And it was the first $200,000 tournament on our on our tour ever against the British Open. Sam Sneed was playing, he's gonna end up finishing second to me by four. But uh I mean I won back to back. So now I fly home after winning Cleveland and Milwaukee, and I told the doctor, I said, can you keep keep this up? Kathy is really victim. I mean, she's happy I'm winning, but she's not she's not being enjoying being nine and a half months pregnant. So uh so David came. Everything everything was fine, but it was uh it was an interesting time. I I enjoy myself much more when the family could be out there with me. Yeah, it's a lot a lot easier, isn't it? Yes, it is.

Mike Gonzalez 35:31

Bruce, didn't you bring your family across about that time?

Bruce Devlin 35:34

Yeah, we we did a little bit the same as what David did. Uh actually he traveled a little better than me. Uh Gloria and I traveled with two kids in a Greyhound bus for two and a half months. Which you're kidding. No, which wasn't much fun. Oh my god. Uh yeah, we why? Well, we didn't have it, we couldn't afford to buy a car, so we were traveling around in the Greyhound.

Dave Stockton 36:00

Oh my god. Okay. You didn't know that, huh? No, no, I didn't. I never I've never been on a Greyhound bus, and I don't think I missed much, I don't think.

Bruce Devlin 36:08

No, you haven't missed anything. And and you know something, David, I'll tell you about how this is how women think. I said to, you know, this has been mentioned a time or two, and I've always said, Man, I'll tell you, that was just so duh so tough, I thought. And then Gloria would say, Well, I'd do it again with two kids and cloth diapers and that's Kathy the same way.

Dave Stockton 36:34

She goes, Well, when we got on the the senior tour, of course, we're flying NetJet and stuff, and and you know, we could we could do it. And um it was she kept saying, you know, I really miss our road trips, and all I remember, all I remember is it's the only time we fought because I am a guy, so I know I know where I'm going. Problem is I don't, right? So my wife, she's gotta be diplomatic, you know.

Mike Gonzalez 37:01

Before GPS.

Dave Stockton 37:03

I can remember, I can remember, I think it was in Arkansas, somewhere around that. We're driving, we've gone into a McDonald's and we got bought breakfast or lunch, I guess, because we had chocolate milkshakes, and she had the glove box open. We had both both milkshakes on the on the little tray right in front of her, and this dog ran right in front of me, and I slammed on the brakes, and both our milkshakes go into our our our you know glove box, which is filled with our most prized possession, which happened to be blue chip stamps and S and H green stamps. Because you get all sorts of free pans and stuff, you know, and you're saving this stuff, right? Oh my god, we spent the whole night trying to clean these things up, but we could still get our money's worth out of all this stuff we had in there. No, it was the road trip, the road trips weren't weren't too I I look at the like the tr the vans they have now and and and the mobile homes they can travel in. I mean, that would have been spectacular, but uh they weren't available to us at that time.

Mike Gonzalez 38:02

Now imagine all the young kids listening to this, they have no idea what we're talking about with all these green stamps, SNH green stamps, and wouldn't have a clue. I thought you were gonna say the the milkshakes uh ruined all your maps because this was way before GPS.

Dave Stockton 38:17

Oh, God, we used to go get what was it when you go to the automobile club and then give it a trip and Triple A and yeah. Rand McNally. Yeah, oh yeah. No, no, don't have to worry about that now.

Mike Gonzalez 38:31

So who did you guys travel with in your caravans back then?

Dave Stockton 38:35

Uh actually a lot with the lotses. Uh Bob Lund started with us. Uh Geiberger, of course, like I say, he played two weeks and was gone two weeks, so there wasn't much traveling with him. Um but uh we we wouldn't caravan necessarily. We we'd know which hotels were motels we were going to, motels the most part. Uh uh and then that was the those brings back. Do you remember the Azaleen Open? Azalea Open? Yeah, I do. I can remember the Barbie apartments out on the beach, and uh it was the greatest week. I mean, it was like $75 for the whole week, and you had to pay $15 extra to get a TV. And we built the coolest par three course down on their sand dunes with plastic from the dry cleaning. We had water holes, we had all sorts of stuff. And my short game got really sharp there. But it, you know, it I've always, I don't know about Bruce, I've always liked the smaller cities. I and of course, I I played when I won the first PGA in 70, uh, which led me to play two British Opens in 71 and and 72, um, but I didn't like it because I I couldn't take my kids with me. And it got to the point that, you know, all mine with my bad back. I mean, of my 25 wins, 22 of them are in July and August, because that's when it gets hot, and that's when I get feeling good. Yeah. And and so I couldn't see taking the time to go overseas because I couldn't take my kids. Or I wouldn't take them. You had to either be there a week earlier or a week afterward. Uh too expensive, too. Yeah, exactly. No, you couldn't, because you knew you weren't going to make enough to cover it. So it it it to me, and that's why I enjoyed the Milwaukee's and I enjoyed the Quad Cities, and I enjoyed uh a lot of the smaller towns that the kids could get. We played baseball games in the afternoon. I mean, it was it was great fun. And it was a it was a good way for your kids to get to get together because the wives could get together around the pool and share watching the watching the their kids and everything. In fact, you get that kid's back to colonial, that's the first tournament that ever had a babysitting service. For wives, wives could they'd have a place in the clubhouse where they would watch the kids and the kids, and it meant so much the wives to get out the walk nine holes and get out there. It just wasn't, you know, they have all that now, but we didn't have anything like that.

Bruce Devlin 40:58

Colonial, I think, was the first to let uh have a dining room for the players and somebody look after the kids. They they were always out in front of everyone.

Dave Stockton 41:07

They were, yeah. Dry cleaning service for you. I mean, everything these kids take for granted, and they they were just they were miles ahead of everybody else.

Mike Gonzalez 41:16

Well, you guys mentioned uh uh in terms of traveling to places like the British Open where it was uh some guys couldn't afford to go over there because of time and money. Uh I'll take you back to the GMO, Dave, in 1968, because that was the first one. And it did, as you said, it ran up uh right against the British Open. And uh it wasn't a difficult choice, probably, for players of your era when you consider the the costs in terms of travel, time, and money to get over the British Open. But uh the GMO that year had a purse of 200,000 uh when you won, and by the way, that was the second highest purse on the PGA tour that year. Uh when you won, you won $40,000 for first prize. You guys remember what the winner's share was in the British Open that same week?

Bruce Devlin 42:06

Have no idea. Not not that much, I know that. I'd say six or six or ten or something.

Mike Gonzalez 42:13

You won forty thousand dollars. Uh the winner at the British Open, uh, which happened to be at uh Carnoustie, I think that year. Three thousand pounds, seventy two hundred dollars.

Bruce Devlin 42:24

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Good good pick, David. Yeah, yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 42:30

Um and the other problem was uh they played the PGA championship the following week.

Bruce Devlin 42:36

Right.

Mike Gonzalez 42:37

A lot of guys you know, probably couldn't even have gotten back for it. Now that was the last time, I think, that the the PGA and the British Open were played back to back. But uh the other issue that you guys ran into was the open uh didn't really count in official PGA stats or dollars until 1995.

Dave Stockton 42:55

Yeah, wow, wow. Well, it and and you know, when we came up, I mean it, you know, Arnold obviously and Jack were the one that made it where they would, you know, they go over there, make the effort. Of course, they could fly their own plane or do whatever they were doing to get over there. And um it just it wasn't it wasn't a practical thing. I mean, that's just you're right. Uh it's because it was it was tough. I mean, it was it was it's hard golf. It's an interesting golf. I liked the I like the link style. I mean, that was phenomenal. The two I played, I played at Muirfield and Burkedale, and it was phenomenal. But it just it wasn't home, and I couldn't bring my my entourage, so to speak, Kathy and both boys, with me. And it it it was just not it wasn't fun. And it, you know, and and it was impractical. Now it's not. In fact, now the way they have it scheduled, it's great for the for the open to be the last one now. And I think the PGA is in a better spot rather than being really hot in the summertime like it was in August. It's much better to have it let the British be the last one before they get into the playoffs.

Mike Gonzalez 44:00

So if you were if you were in your prime playing today, uh would you probably go over there and play in the in the open championship more often?

Dave Stockton 44:08

Not necessarily, not if I had young kids. I mean, it's just I had too much fun because I, you know, when I'm out there by myself and Kathy can come out every couple three weeks or something, uh I, you know, I still wouldn't want to sacrifice my kids, and I don't want to take them over there. It'd be a good experience for them to go and and see it. But of course, we've gone the other way because we've done a lot of exhibitions over there around the Ryder Cups and stuff. Um we've we've taken the kids over there and done corporate outings with Merrill Lynch and American Airlines and stuff, uh, and they've had a opportunity to see it and get a feel for it. But uh I'm sure if I was in the top 10 or top 20, like I was there for a while on the regular tour back in the 60s and 70s, uh, yeah, I would play. But it it it it was a hardship. And uh I got to the point where I enjoyed, you know, I was doing corporate outings as well as playing, and I just couldn't see taking that time and effort. So I would probably play now if I was a top 20 player, sure, absolutely. But uh I would I wouldn't, it just didn't work for me.

Mike Gonzalez 45:13

Well, we'll come back to the major championships in a bit, but uh just continuing on with some of your other regular PGA tour wins, you won in 1971 at the Massachusetts Classic. That was at Pleasant Valley Country Club by one shot over Raymond Floyd. What are your memories of that event?

Dave Stockton 45:30

Uh mainly the year before, when I had the lead the year before and fell going down the eighth hole. Stepped into a like a gopher, uh not a gopher hole, a groundhog hole or something, and twisted my ankle and literally carried myself on eight and nine and realized I wasn't going to be able to continue. And came back the next year with a desire to satisfy the wrong. It's kind of like what I did winning the LA Open, as you'll talk about later, uh, for I had had the lead the prior year, but then got sick and couldn't finish. Um I I've got a I've got a long memory. And if I if if I feel like I deserve something, I'm gonna go after it. And that's kind of what happened at the at Pleasant Valley. Cuzman Gola was the owner up there at Pleasant Valley, and that was talk about a family place for us to go. They had they had a wonderful dinner for us. You know, you'd have the kids out there and they'd have a clam and and lobster bake and all this stuff, and the Pleasant Valley Motor in is standing right there around the corner from the course. And that to me, those are the tournaments that I remember because I know the kids, it's embedded in their mind what we did that week. You know, it it's a hilarious place, and it was a great place to win.

Mike Gonzalez 46:39

And Bruce, you must have had the family with you probably the following year when you won there.

Bruce Devlin 46:44

Yeah, well, uh, actually I was there by myself uh that year, but uh and as a matter of fact, I stayed with Kaz Mingola that year. The guy that owned the place. Yeah, well what a great thrill that was to stay with him and uh and end up winning the golf tournament. But uh yeah, it was a it was like David said, it was a fabulous place to to go. Uh when I went back uh years later, I always stayed at the uh Pleasant Valley Inn there, right on the golf course. It was a lot of fun.

Dave Stockton 47:18

How about how about the 17th hole? Did you ever worry about that tea shot? Uh yes, sir.

Bruce Devlin 47:27

Yeah, that was a toughie, wasn't it? It was. Yeah, yeah. That that I think that was the scariest shot on the whole golf course.

Dave Stockton 47:35

I I do too. Absolutely.

Mike Gonzalez 47:37

So for our listeners that have never played the hole, tell us about that shot. What was scary about it?

Dave Stockton 47:42

Well, you're a little bit elevated hitting trees left and right, and you just couldn't miss it left or right. As long as you hit it straight, there was no problem. But if you there were a lot of trees, and it was a slight dog leg to the right, and it was just an uncomfortable hole. And you just come off playing a the 15th hole, you played up back up across a canyon, kind of like a back up part of the clubhouse where guys could drive the green. I couldn't. And then a par three that was downhill, and it's just it was a tough, you know, you're really close to finishing this thing off. And it you had to hit a good T shot on 17, and it it wasn't comfortable. I don't care for any whoever it was, it was a hard hole to drive on. Absolutely.

Bruce Devlin 48:20

Well, at least you got to play a par five to finish. So that was better and I needed quite one quite as hard. Right. No, it wasn't.

Mike Gonzalez 48:29

So you mentioned your uh uh your like for Milwaukee as a town, and you came back there in 1973, won the GMO again out of Tuckaway Country Club this time.

Dave Stockton 48:39

Yeah, that was it was fun. The first time I'd won twice in the same town, two different courses. Uh North Shore, obviously in the north side, and this is the south side of it. Uh but a really good golf course. Uh just a parkland-like course. Uh had a few holes with trees on it, especially early on the backside. But it it was uh uh it was great. In other words, that that's again that was a baseball town for us to play with our kids and everything in the afternoon, similar to like Hartford or something. And it just it was a it was a great spot to be. And interesting enough, a lot of people have won the Milwaukee Open twice. Uh I never, you know, I after after winning there, I uh that was about the last time after age 76 I went back there. But uh in seven in uh 73, it was I hadn't won again. I hadn't won since 71, so it was good to get back and in the winner circle. Yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 49:35

Why don't you tell us about your win at uh Riviera you alluded to earlier, which was the LA Open. Uh Glenn Campbell, I think, was the sponsor, wasn't he?

Dave Stockton 49:43

Yes, in 74, Glenn Campbell LA Open. I was I was fortunate enough to win there, and Stadler was the low amateur. Uh so it was kind of an SC thing. But uh that was interesting because I was playing against Sneed. And uh how it turned out is I had a I had a two-shot league going into 17, the par five, and how I got past him in two, I don't know. But uh he had about a 120-yard shot, and I had about a hundred and ten-yard shot. And he hits his shot and he gets on the green. He's like 15 feet to the right of the hole or something, and or yeah, the right of the hole. And he he walks past me, and I'm wondering what he's doing, because I'm blocked to my ball, I'm getting ready to hit, and he walks right by me, and I'm thinking he's getting his divot. Well, he never stops walking. He walks all the way up on the green, marks his ball, and turns around and just looks at me. And as he's walking up there, I'm I told my caddy, I said, you know, I'm gonna hit this guy on national television. I mean, he's just obviously trying to needle me, right? And so he he he just stood there and I hit it just outside him, and I missed it, and he made it. So now I'm one shot ahead, going to 18 at Riviera, which is another interesting finishing hole. Damn right. If you watch the winter this time, he had a pitching wedge. And Yeah. We couldn't hit a pitching wedge in there. No, no, no. And that day, that particular day, the wind was into us, which is highly unusual. It's usually a slight tailwind behind you, but I didn't want to go right because you got all the eucalyptus trees. And as I walk on the T, Sam's on the right, so I go to the left, and I'm just looking to the left at the hill, and just kind of getting my mind together on what I've got to do here. And all of a sudden, sneeze right beside me, says, Sonny says, I know you didn't know this, but in 51, I birdied the last two holes here to beat Ben Hogan. And I looked at him and I go, I was barely born, but that's fine, congratulations. And I just turned around, right? So now, but I'm mad, right? I'm upset, you know, because I know what he's trying to do. And I pulled this thing, and they've got a plaque up there, and where the guy had a pitching wedge this time, I had 243 yards to the hole. And other than the fact I don't want to leave it in the bunker short of the green, short of the 60 yards short of the hole, and it's got out of bounds up the hill to the left, and then a zillion people to the right. I had no place I didn't want to hit. I had all these places I didn't want to go, and I had a forward out until my caddy came back and told me that instead of having my usual 210 or whatever it was, I had 240. So the ball six inches below my feet, but sitting up, I could have hit a driver. I mean, it's the Kakuy, it's just sitting right up on top. And I swing this three wood and I killed it. I've never hit it again. I've hit 20 or 30 shots, I've never hit the green, let alone hit it about 10 feet. But I hit the three wood ten feet, and Sam is standing right beside, he's 65, 70 yards ahead of me. And he's standing by him. I told my caddy, I said, and I pulled my three wood, I said, move this sucker back, get him away from me, because I don't want to see him. So my caddy kind of hurred him over to the side, and I hit this thing, and luckily they didn't show it because I walked right up to him as soon as I hit it, and as soon as I saw it get over the trap. And I said, I guess Hogan didn't hit it that good, did he, Sam? And I just I put my I put I put my fist under his face, under his nose, and I said, I guess he didn't hit it that good that day, did he? And I walked off, right? So he knocks it on the green, he two butts, I hold it, and I walk up in the press tent and I told him everything. I said exactly what happened. He blew a gasket. And when I told him I saw him the very next week, I said, Look, Sam, I said, You know exactly what you did, and I knew what you were trying to do. But uh, you know. Didn't work. I it didn't work, you know, sort of thing. So he and I never exchanged Christmas cards, but um, you know, I understood where he's coming from. Great great individual, by the way.

Mike Gonzalez 53:34

Unbelievable. What a swing. Did that happen a lot out there? I mean, I've heard some stories from some of the guys. Uh absolutely.

Dave Stockton 53:41

I mean it was there, but but yeah, I understand that it was like my dad who never played because there weren't there wasn't any money. You alluded to what the British Open paid. There was no money to play, so they'd play the side wagers and they'd do all this stuff, and they weren't exactly excited to have young guys come out. And I I got along fine with everybody, but there were certain players, Gardner was one of them. Uh there were others that were tough. Dan Sykes could be tough, Sam Snee could be tough, but it was an era they all came out and they did a lot of hustling, they did a lot of stuff. Well, it's like these kids now, I mean, they're all good friends for the most part. I mean, Kepkin and De Chambeau may be having a feud at the moment, but for the most part, you're playing for so much money that you want to help the other person. And I always did. I always helped the other guys that I played with. I wanted them to play their best, and then I wanted to beat them. Right. But it, you know, and I never played much money in practice rounds. I don't know whether you did, devil, but I didn't because I I could never figure out. Everybody's trying to hone their their talents for for you know head-to-head play and all this stuff, but they never put the pins where they're gonna be in the tournament. And and if you were like I am coming up, you played two Monday and Tuesday, or your only practice rounds, because you usually weren't in the pro-am. And so I wanted to play to the part of the greens where they're gonna put the pins so I could get a feel for it. And I whether you played for 10 or 20 bucks, I didn't see where I got the advantage. I wanted I wanted to learn the golf course. But these other guys, I mean, from that different era, they acted totally different. And it's changed dramatically changed now.

Bruce Devlin 55:16

Yeah, well, you know, a little uh a little $20 NASA was uh sort of nice back in the younger days.

Dave Stockton 55:25

Yeah, see, I didn't I didn't get it, I didn't get into that. I was just I was trying to learn the golf course. You know, I just and that's why I would change. I mean, like Geiberger and I, we'd be out playing practice rounds or something. We were talking more about positioning and how it played and you know the different situations you're gonna face, you know. You know, that it just happened to be that's what I the way I did it, the way I treated it, because I I was trying to trying to learn as fast as I could.

Bruce Devlin 55:50

Well, I might also say that that wasn't the first year, that was after I'd played a golf course two or three times. It felt like I knew it. So uh you know, just just keep the interest there with a $20 NASA was you know, you're right.

Dave Stockton 56:05

I mean, like one I would definitely do a lot of betting on was Torrey Pines, because I did not like Torrey Pines the way I knew it, and I didn't like it. Because every time I played the South Course, I kept going, well, why don't now that they've done it and redesigned it? I mean, why in the heck in the greener by the paranorker? Why are you know they just like they played away from everything, and I didn't I did I didn't see the challenge in it. So yeah, now there I would do some some some gambling for sure.

Mike Gonzalez 56:33

Let's uh quickly uh recount uh a couple other wins that you had on the regular PGA tour. You you won at Quad Cities, you mentioned that before, as another fun uh small, fun Midwestern city that was at Crow Valley Country Club by one over Bruce Fleischer.

Dave Stockton 56:48

And who? And who's the other one?

Bruce Devlin 56:50

I don't know. Was there another one?

Dave Stockton 56:52

Oh, absolutely. Sam Sneed was leading the tournament, and I shot six again. I shot 64, and Fleischer three-putted the 18th hole. Sam was he was really mad because this is the same year that I beat him in LA. This is the last tournament he was gonna lead on our tour. Not that we knew it, but you know, that was the last tournament, and he was sunk. I shot 64, I played unbelievable. And and then Flasher got up and only had about 25, 30 footer, and he three-putted. And Sam was so mad, he he wanted, I think, anybody to win but me, you know. Which I could understand.

Intro Music 57:26

Yeah.

Dave Stockton 57:28

Probably. And then you mentioned right and right after that, because that was my best year on tour, the three wins, LA and the Quad Cities, and then I won the Sammy Davis Jr. at Hartford, which was the highlight again, Raymond Floyd. Raymond and I butted heads. A lot of us seem to play the same, you know, same course as well. Devil, you and I, we were we were for whatever the reason was, but the highlight of great of Hartford, that was the first time a sitting president, President Ford, called called uh a pro that had won on the on the PGA tour. And they were they were all fired up about that.

Mike Gonzalez 58:03

And uh that was a fun stop for you guys, wasn't it? I mean, it was just a very good supportive town with the JCs running that event in Hartford. Yeah, it was yeah, it yeah.

Dave Stockton 58:12

Any any JC event that's been run, we really supported well, and they supported us well. I mean, it was it was like a lot like Mongola's up in Pleasant Valley. I mean, there was nice dinners and stuff. In fact, a lot of us contributed our prize, a lot of our prize money back for their their children's home up there and stuff, and uh some of their philanthropic efforts. And uh I donated quite a bit of my my winnings there over a number of years just just because how they treated us there.

Mike Gonzalez 58:42

Bruce, you were a runner-up uh the year before to Billy Casper. I was, yeah.

Bruce Devlin 58:48

I don't like those runner-ups, so right, David?

Dave Stockton 58:53

Yeah, but again, Billy's nobody, you can't fault. If you lose to Billy, that's a pretty good person to get get slipped by you.

Bruce Devlin 59:01

I gotta tell you one quick story about Billy Casper. I played with him the last two rounds of the Western Open. And I think he ended up winning by six or seven shots, and I went back to the hotel that Saturday evening because we were playing 36 holes on Saturday. I went back to the hotel and I said to Gloria, my wife, I said, you know, I don't know. I'm not sure I'm in the right game because I played with a guy today that just I mean, he hardly I think he might have missed two shots in 36 holes or something, but uh you're right, he was a hell of a player, Casper. Good, good guy, too.

Dave Stockton 59:42

He was great. He should have been the big four and not the big three. He just had the great player. He had the wrong manager. I mean, he yeah, really, really a good player.

Mike Gonzalez 59:53

Thank you for listening to another episode of For the Good of the Game. And please, wherever you listen to your podcast on Apple and Spotify, if you like what you hear, please subscribe, spread the word, and tell your friends until we tee it up again for the good of the game. So long, everybody.

Intro Music 1:00:14

Smack down the fairway. It went smack down the fairway. And it's time to displace just smack the flag. It headed for two, but it flies off line. Back head is as long as you're still in the stage you're okay.