Dennis Walters - Part 1 (The Early Years)

Mike Gonzalez 0:15

Welcome to another edition of FORE the Good of the Game and Bruce Devlin. I think it's safe to say that this World Golf Hall of Famer we have with us this morning took a little different path to the hall.

Bruce Devlin 0:27

A different path for sure. Very good amateur player, turned professional, and then unfortunately had a horrible accident that left him in a wheelchair, and it is indeed a great pleasure to have with us today, Dennis Walters. Thanks for joining us, Dennis. We've looked forward to this since we saw you at the World Golf Hall of Fame the other night. Appreciate you coming on board.

Dennis Walters 0:51

Yes, sir. Thank you, Bruce. Thank you, Mike. I appreciate you all the work you do and all of the efforts that you're making to try and preserve these stories because I I think it's a very noble pursuit. And uh I've admired Bruce since I was a boy, and uh the great play that that he put on, and uh I still remember the CBS golf classic and those matches and uh Devlin's Billabong and uh all the just I really I I had a buddy who was on my team, my college team, and he had a shorter swing than most of us, and he really liked your swing.

Bruce Devlin 1:40

So it was a little short too.

Dennis Walters 1:43

Yes, sir. He he was he was a big Bruce Devlin fan. And uh so I I I greatly admire you, and uh I I appreciate the the the love and the all the work and all the effort you've put into golf, and uh I appreciate the opportunity to tell my story, and uh I'm sure I'll be a big friend of you uh fan of yours too, Mike.

Mike Gonzalez 2:07

Well, Dennis, it's a delight to have you. Of course, as Bruce mentioned, it was fun to meet you uh at the World Golf Hall of Fame induction ceremony the other night in Pinehurst, where they opened up the new World Golf Hall of Fame, having uh moved uh a lot of those artifacts from um from their uh last home in uh in Florida. And uh I guess the first question about that, Dennis, is how did you like your new display in the World Golf Hall of Fame?

Dennis Walters 2:37

Well, I thought I thought it was I thought it was well done, and I I read a little bit about it and uh the the way the USGA set that up. It I guess they weren't expecting to do that when everything was started, but uh I thought they made it nice and modern and airy and open and well lit. And I think it in some way it tells the story of all the members. And uh I I was very happy to see that it has a permanent home now.

Mike Gonzalez 3:10

Yeah, it's sort of interesting too the way they organize at this time, which was sort of by era, and so uh those that uh uh found themselves, particularly uh those uh on the competitive side found themselves competing with each other, that you all tend to see those ladies and men together in their in their displays. But uh uh, you know, for Bruce and I, I would say for me in particular, because Bruce knew a lot of our guests uh that we've done. Uh I think you're our 96th interview, by the way. And uh I would say I could count on one hand the number of our guests I had been able to meet personally in my life, even though we spend a lot of time with them telling their story. So it was a lot of fun to uh get a chance to meet uh you as an upcoming guest and also a lot of our other Hall of Fame guests that we've done over the last three years.

Dennis Walters 3:59

Yeah, it was uh it was a really nice gathering of of people in in uh in golf and there for the ceremony, and I went to the Bob Jones dinner, and it was it was a really nice change of pace for us because we we just spent a few days just uh we played golf one day, but we spent spent the day uh not really doing our show. And uh so in my locker I had uh I went to see I can't remember where if it was at Shady Oaks or Colonial or the US GA Museum, and I went to see Ben Hogan's locker. And uh I really admired Ben Hogan. He was kind of one of my favorites, and for whatever reason, he had a he had a uh a hundred thousand dollar candy bar and a jar of tiger bomb in his locker. So I said, man, I gotta get some of that. So when they were putting my locker together the first time, I went out, I naturally I went out and got a hundred thousand dollar candy bar and a jar of tiger bomb. It's it's like, you know, it's like in a little jar. And no one knew what it was except for a couple of my friends who knew the inside joke. So when they moved my stuff, I said to uh I said to Mike uh Trossel there, the uh museum guy, I said, I said, well, there's two things. He said, How do you like your locker? I said, it was two things missing. I said, the $100,000 candy bar. He said, it we it kind of disintegrated, right? And uh somehow they lost the tiger bomb. So I gotta get some more of that. And then they had a scorecard from the U.S. Adaptive Open. And it was a higher score than I would have liked to have seen. So I said, well, why didn't you take those the the one round I broke 80? Why didn't you put that scorecard in there? I said, you know, you you're you're you're tied to a golf cart and you're playing a in a national open and you break 80. That's that's a that's a good, that's a that's a really fine feat. So he said, Well, we'll immediately change it. I said, okay. I said, why don't you just turn it around so you can't see the score, and you'll just see that it was from the U.S. Adaptive Open. So those were my two constructive criticisms about my locker. But I like my locker because it had pictures of my dogs and it had some of my trick clubs and uh pictures of my mom and dad, and uh had a pair of my old leg braces in there, and uh just tried to give people an idea of what the heck it is that I do and why I was even in there.

Bruce Devlin 7:02

Yep. So, Dennis, uh, tell us how you came to learn you were chosen to be inducted into the World Golf Hall of Fame.

Dennis Walters 7:10

Well, the thing about it was I think just before the class that I went into, which was 2019, I think in 2017 they announced who the finalists were for the first time. Before that, it was pretty secretive. No, nobody knew anything. And so when it was my class's turn, I got a call from Jack Peter, who was at the time in charge of the Hall of Fame, and he said, This was on October the 12th, 2018, and he said, Dennis, he said, I'm you're a finalist, he said, and I'm gonna call you in a week because that's when the the voting is. There's 16 people, and uh we'll we'll I'll call you one way or another. So all week I was saying, you know, I saw who the other people were, and I said, I got no shot, no chance. Yeah. I'm gonna work on my nice to be nominated speech. And so the next day, or I mean the next week, October the 19th, I believe it was, I was just getting out of the shower, and uh the phone rings, and I know it's him, because it was a 904 area code, and I said, uh, he goes, hi Dennis, this is Jack Peter. I have two two two people here who want to talk to him. So he put it on speaker phone, and in unison, well, you know, the first one goes, Hi Dennis, this is Jack Nicholas. And the second one goes, hi Dennis, this is Gary Player. And in unison, they said, We're calling to let you know you've just been inducted into the World Golf Hall. Man, it was awesome. It was uh I was started crying and everything, and I uh I I come I composed my it took me about a minute to compose myself, and when I said, Wow, I said, you two must have done some sales job on these other people. I said, because I'm betting nobody even ever heard of me. And Jack said, Dennis, that's that's not true. He said, every person in that room heard of you. You know, they're from China and uh Europe, Australia, and uh all these places that you know I figured they would never even know who I was. And Jack said, No, that's not true. Every person in that room knew who you were. He said, but when we the two of us got done, they heard a hell of a lot more. So had I known, had I known that uh Jack and Gary were in my corner, I wouldn't have squated it. Who's gonna disagree with them? And uh I think the real story is it was it was not going really well, and then Jack and Gary both stood up and uh Gary got emotional and Jack was going and then they then they voted and it was like unanimous. So if it wasn't for those two, I wouldn't have gotten in, but I feel like if those two thought I should get in, and Arnold Palmer and Tiger wrote letters for me, I figured if those guys thought I should be in, well, I guess I guess maybe I should be in. So it was it was quite a time, and I was it took me a while to really process the whole thing, and I I I I was just thinking about this whole thing, that phone call for at least a month before I actually put it back further in my mind. But uh that was that it was amazing. It really was just I mean, it you you can't make it up. It's it's like my whole story. You can't make this stuff up. It actually happened. Yeah, I don't know how it happened and where the time went. This is my 47th year of performing, but I know it happened. And uh people asked me how did I do it, and I said, I'm not exactly sure. I just kept just kept doing it.

Mike Gonzalez 11:19

Yeah. Well, let's let let's uh give our listeners a little insights into how it happened and talk about your journey to the hall. Of course, uh, as um as you probably know by now, as we tell these live stories, we start at the very beginning. So let's just go back a few years. I won't say how many, but uh a few, to uh Neptune Township, New Jersey, and talk about growing up as a little boy there and eventually learning the game.

Dennis Walters 11:47

Well, I was born in Neptune, now I live in Jupiter.

Mike Gonzalez 11:52

What planet are you on today, huh?

Dennis Walters 11:55

Well, I went to uh I went to Oakmont and I drove through a town called Mars, and I said, Man, we got to get a summer place up here. And uh so the thing that helped me get interested in golf was there was a golf course in our neighborhood. It was probably about a 20-minute walk uphill, and one time I got off I got off at the a different bus stop because I'd heard about this. I was about eight years old, and uh I was coming home from school, and I I I I I said I'm gonna I'm gonna go take a look at this. And so I'm I'm a big animal lover, and I I had to walk through the woods to get there, maybe about a hundred yards worth of woods, and I saw a deer, uh, heard the birds sing, squirrels, and I said, Man, I really like this a lot, and I haven't even seen the golf course. And so I popped out of the woods there, and I was right on the 18th T. And at the exact moment I got there, I saw a guy tee off. And and I I couldn't believe how far the ball went. I I, you know, because you're eight years old, how far can you kick a football or throw a baseball? And so I sat there and I watched a couple groups, and I went home and I told my dad what I'd done, and he said, Would you like to go try it? And I said, Yeah, he he really wasn't an avid golfer, but he he played on occasion, but so it was a uh was kind of a public course that had you know, it was like semi-private. You could join as a member, and uh but for the most part it was it was really it was a nice everyone knew it was a nice layout. And uh when I wrote my book, we did some research on the course, and you could tell that it had classic architectural features, and so we did a re we did some research and we found out that that Tillinghast got the contract to build a co build a course, but he gave it to his assistant, and I think the guy's name was Ward Wilkins. Or you know, it's probably close, maybe that's not the exact name. But anyhow, this was this guy's first project. So, you know, Tillinghast had to been out there supervising or at least giving him advice, and uh but you know, there was you know, there's dandelions in the fairway and clover, and you know, people say he has a flyer lie, okay? You get him wet clover, that's a flyer lie. And uh so uh this course and the and the the greens were hard and the fairways were soft, and so but uh it everything about it was really nice, and there were some good players there, and uh anyhow my dad took me up the next day to meet the pro. So I met the pro and I said, Boy, I'd really like to try this. And uh he gave me a club, he gave me two clubs, which I still have. They're in my living room. Almost every person that comes in my house picks them up.

Mike Gonzalez 15:31

So, what what was the name of this course that you're talking about here, Donna?

Dennis Walters 15:35

Jumping Brook. Jumping brook jumping Brook Golf and Country Club.

Mike Gonzalez 15:40

And they had they had a brook, they had at least a brook.

Dennis Walters 15:43

They had a brook, went right through the middle of it. And uh so the pro gives me these two clubs. One was a brown shafted six iron that was a Wilson Hole High, and the other one was a Bob Jones model driver. And when I got the Bob Jones Award, I took the little driver with me, and I I used it as my visual aid, and I said, from the first golf shot I ever hit, I've been connected to Bob Jones. And uh it was uh it was actually kind of a really cool place to to learn the game because there were a lot of good players, guys that uh won or came close to winning, like the state amateur. But it was a place of characters, and as I as I grew up a little bit, uh I I came in contact with these guys. And uh so I I that summer I started to uh I started to hit golf balls and um I used this went to the swimming pool and just fooled around like any other eight-year-old kid. But I was really I I really became smitten with the game and uh eventually fell head over heels in love with golf. And uh to this day I'm I'm still trying to get better at it all these years later. And uh I uh uh I spent the next few years at at the uh at the the course and playing baseball, little league baseball, and the other sports. But I was too small, I was really small, and I was I was really a good athlete, but I was too small. I was too small for pop warner football. You know, I weighed like 70 pounds, you know, 75 pounds when I was like 12 years old. And so I could run faster than anybody, I could catch better, but I couldn't play because these the 115-pound guys would kill me, right? And so I said, you know what, I think I'm just sticking to golf. So I can remember uh the one of my big breakthroughs was we had a field behind our house, and that's where we played baseball. And we played baseball all day long. You'd get up in a in a day, you'd get up like a hundred times. And uh it was when you when we got done, we had these high-top sneakers. Before we got in the house, you'd dump out like a half a pound of sand on the on the step there when you're going in. And uh so but one day at the end of the summer, I took a I took a uh the the summer before I was hitting like a nine-iron and I couldn't even reach the end of it. And then I uh when I got a little bigger, I hit I hit a five iron, I hit a I hit it in the woods behind the field, and I said, man, I'm I'm getting a little better at this. So just you know, those were the days when I was uh it was in the 60s, and you you know, I'm living up north, and the only thing you have is the the Shell's wonderful world of golf and uh CBS Golf Classic and couldn't wait for those things, big three golf. And uh so I said to um not too long ago, I played around with Gary Player and who's who's been a lifelong friend of mine. I I played golf with him when I went to South Africa. And so I was you know, we were I I had to give him a ride. We we we drove to play in a tournament, and he it was just me and him for 45 minutes. We talked about everything, each 45 minutes each way. And I said, you know what? I said, I can't believe this. I said, I'm I'm like 10, 12, 14 years old. I'm watching the CBS golf classic and big three golf. I said, and now I've done I've done shows with you and Jack and Arnie, and I I have all your cell numbers. I said, I mean, this is crazy to even think about this. But uh so I I I just continued to to work on my game and when I was a kid, and I did other things, but I really loved golf and I couldn't wait for the weather to get warm. This it would snow, and uh I can remember going out to the range and digging a hole 150 yards away and digging another hole to hit from, and then you'd hit toward the the the hole, you know, the circle that you had dug out, and if you missed, you could see where the ball went in the snow, and you'd have to reach it and pull it out, and uh I was just crazy in love with golf. And by the time I got to high school, I was I was pretty decent. And when I was in high school, I continued to play over at Jumping Brook, and I used to caddy there, and I I had a junior membership for like a hundred bucks, and I all the good players wanted me to caddy for them, so I I really didn't sit in a yard with the other caddies much. The first day I went to caddy, I was I was 13, and you had to have working papers, which my dad signed. So I went up there and I gave it to the caddy master. And I he goes, How old are you, kid? I go, I'm I'm 14. And I was really 12, but um I said, I'm 14, and I'm small anyhow. And so he goes, Okay, go sit up there. So we're up the top of the hill. There's a lot of you know, older men. There there were two guys named Red. One guy had no teeth, and the other guy bitched and complained about everything. So one guy was called No Teeth, and the other guy was Red. So the caddy master would be down at the bottom of the hill and he'd go, Hey, Red. And a chorus of wise guys like me would say, Is that no teeth or complainer? And he'd go, No teeth. So he'd go, Hey, no teeth. Get your ass down there, caddy. And so it was uh There were some characters in there in in that place. And what an education for a 12-year-old kid. So the first time I got out, I come back in and the caddy master says he he had one arm, Joe. And uh so one arm Joe says, you know, son, he says, uh there's a caddy fee here at 25 cents. I said, Oh, okay. You know, I was getting like four dollars, maybe five. And uh so he says would he says, Do you want to buy a Coke? He goes, You're 10 cents. I said, Yeah, I'll take a Coke. So now I'm only 12, but I've been I'm born in New Jersey, right? So I said to him, I said, I give him 50 cents, and I said, here, keep the change. And I I got out, I was like the first one out almost every time. There you go. And um these other guys are bitch. I ain't giving that guy no 50 cents, you know, 30 cents, you know. Uh-huh. He's robbing us on those cokes, you know, he buys them for a nickel, you know.

Mike Gonzalez 23:15

You know, Dennis, it is great to reflect back on our childhood to think about some of these characters that are little courts. You know, I grew up in a nine-hole courts and uh my friends from Salem, Illinois will appreciate some of these names. Uh Jelly Roll, uh Pete Rhodes, who is this mountain of a man, gentle giant that just I remember him hitting these low bullets. I mean, nobody could hit a ball lower off the tape than Pete Rhodes. Phil Reynolds, who's probably the longest hitter in the club. Uh Zeke Fry, who's the old grizzled guy that you know the swing didn't look very good, but he could get it in the hole with the best of them. Uh and I'm sure you've got plenty of stories back from your day as well, some of these characters that uh that you had a jumping brook.

Dennis Walters 24:04

Yeah, this was quite a collection here. Uh you couldn't make this stuff up. And uh some of these guys were pretty good. I mean, they they would I I I don't know how good they actually were, but you know, these were guys that could play uh get to the finals of the state amateur, and they were they were good. But the and there was a lot to learn from because they were good enough where a 12-year-old kid, 13-year-old kid could learn some things by watching. And but the real the real heart of the matter here were the characters that were there, uh Sonny Bop, Blue Boy, Roach, uh Tony Al. These guys were they were all characters. The mailman played there, the milkman, all these guys played there, and they gambled a little bit. And back then you could take a caddy for five dollars, and even the you know, even the mailman would take a caddy. And uh so these guys were just the the the the ones that really I thought were the were the top of the the top of the character list were they were connected to the mafia in some way. Um you know, there's another guy named Lucky there, and uh these guys were uh at various levels they were connected, and so almost maybe two or three Mondays, every every Monday, or on these two or three Mondays, there would be eight guys named Smith playing on the starter sheet. And so and and they would come down, they would come down in these big Cadillacs, and they'd say, uh, me and my buddy, they was always two foursoms, me and my buddy would always get them, and uh we would hang out with them the whole day, and they would bring they would always bring one or two famous people, and so uh it it it was a sight, it was a sight to see these guys show up just to show up, and so they would always bring somebody famous. The guy who was the main guy, he was like one of the top guys in the state in in on the uh mafia food chain. And rumor has it that the guy who uh David Chase, who wrote The Sopranos, based part of uh Tony Soprano on this guy because he lived in the same town. Anyhow, uh they would show up and they would say, Okay, uh, they'd bring these pepper and egg sandwiches in the in the trunk of the car, and they'd be all ready to play, we don't play for money because we choke. So, but one day I saw a guy lose 1200 dozen titleists, or they'd play, they'd play for dinner at Toot Shores in New York, which was a big uh nightclub, bar, hangout for all the famous people. And even back in the 60s, you know, they'd have 10 guys, the tab would have to be like, you know, $500 or something. So, but they they didn't want to play for money. And so um the uh so the the uh I always went with the big guy, and like one day he would uh like Tommy from the four seasons, he came often. And if you've seen the play Jersey Boys, there's always a there's always a set of golf clubs uh on the set because these guys weren't into golf. And uh so another time they brought Rocky Marciano, he came, and I caddied for Rocky. And I I at the time I was going to the wrestling matches on Friday nights, and so at convention hall down on the boardwalk, and I used to get this magazine, Boxing Illustrated Wrestling News, and they'd have a boxer on the front and a wrestler on the back. And I remembered like maybe a month or so before Rocky's picture was in there. So I got done. I said, Hey Rock, you gonna be here for a while? He goes, Yeah, kid, no problem. So I ran downhill the 15 minutes, and I got the magazine, I ran uphill the 20 minutes, and so I said, Hey Rock, would you sign this? Oh, yeah. So he writes, Two dentists keep punching, Rocky Marciano. That's what he always used to say. And he had a perfect penmanship, perfect penmanship. So I had this thing, then I went to college, and oh, you know, for like 40 years it was missing, and I was getting ready to move, and I found this box. My dad never threw anything out, had this big box, boxing illustrated wrestling news, as it was labeled. I said, Man, I wonder if that thing with Rockies in there. First one, mint condition. So I have it hanging up in my in my uh game room. And uh one time they brought this lady, and I'm like 15, and I've seen Playboy magazine, and I know that this this lady is a knockout. And so I said I thought they introduced her as Mrs. Esner, but this was like in 62, this was probably 63, 62, 63. Anyhow, a little while after that, maybe a few years later, came out that she it was actually Judith Campbell Exner, and she was the girlfriend of John Kennedy and Sam Gianconna, the mafia guy in Chicago, which was not a good idea, I don't think.

Mike Gonzalez 30:16

Not at the same time.

Dennis Walters 30:18

Yeah. Then there was another guy. There was another guy, he came, he was a famous singer. I don't know if I should mention his name. I think he's passed on, but um anyhow, he uh I carried his bag. He had a big spalding red bag like Bruce Devlin had, with and he had those irons, he had those irons with the little bird on the on the uh on the face, you know, on the back of the club, right? And so I saw this guy at uh at the golf course, and I said, Hey, I said, Man, I remember you. I I catted for you back in '63. I said, you were playing with uh the boys. He goes, no, not me. Wrong guy. I said, no, no, no. You had that big red bag with the spalding irons with the little bird on it and everything. No, you got me confused. Oh, I gotcha, I gotcha. Yeah, right. No, you so anyhow, um, it was quite a scene there, and uh I caddied for this one guy, and he said, he said, You watch the untouchables? I go, yeah, every week. He goes, you know the guy that stands on the running board with the Tommy gun? I go, Yeah, it's in it's in every every show. He goes, that was this guy's job. Right? So it was, you know, and if this stuff is true, you know, it's it's a little sketchy, but just to hang just to hang out with these guys was it was like a real education. One time I'm caddying for this, uh, I'm caddying for the big guy, and he um the 14th hole, you could drive, you could drive a car out through the back entrance across the 14th hole. So I'm riding in a cart with this guy, and another guy parks his car and he gets out and he comes over because he wants to talk to the boss, and he's got a real big gun, right? On his uh, you know, inside his coat. You could see it. So the guy says, Hey, take a walk, kid. I said, Yeah, no problem. I'm out of here, you know. So and then the best, the best was uh the big guy, he was um, he was he he weighed about three, made we had to weigh at least three, three hundred, three twenty. And he was a he was he was uh not a very good golfer. And so the 12th hole at the brook, there was a ditch. You had to carry it like 125 to get over the ditch, right? But he couldn't do it. So every time from the 11th green to the 12th T, he would pick a fight with the guy he was playing, and he'd say, You stink, he said, You're so bad. He says, That little caddy of mine can beat you. So, but I was pretty good by then, you know. And so I I always played the 12th hole for him, and then uh, you know, it was it was pretty funny.

Mike Gonzalez 33:21

So, you know, uh you you could look at um uh life at age 12 and and uh ask yourself, are you better off going to college or are you better off caddying for a year?

Dennis Walters 33:35

Yeah, no, listen, that was a real education. It was a real education, and I'll tell you one thing, my guys never had a bad lie. They're hitting three woods out of the rough because I got there first. And another one of my good ones is I was caddying for these two guys, and so they weren't very good. One guy couldn't see for anything, he had glasses like Coke bottles, and uh so the uh he hits it in the left rough, the other guy hits it in the right rough. So I give them both a forewood, and they're they're hack, they're gonna hack their way up the fairway. So I'm about even, they're about even, and I look over, and this the guy who can't see very well takes a big swing, and he hits a mushroom, right? So I go over there, I I go over there and I he goes, Where'd it go? Where'd it go? I said, I'm sorry to report that was a mushroom and not a titleist. And so I said, Hey, your ball's over here. I said, We won't count that one. That that one didn't count. That was my fault. Like the kid in Caddyshack with the slippery grips, right? I said, that was my fault, right?

Mike Gonzalez 35:00

Oh, you weren't hitting a shiitake three, were you? Yeah.

Dennis Walters 35:05

So anyhow, um, but later on, later on, you know, when we found out, we found out, and we watched The Sopranos, and I read a little bit about it. This guy's name was Ray DiCarlo, and that's the guy, he was from like East Orange or South Orange, and that's where the guy uh from the Sopranos was was there. Uh he was from the same town, and so I, you know, this is like maybe 30 30 years later, I'm starting to put a couple things together here, you know, and I'm and and uh I'm going, well, they you know, they were they were, you know, they were they were good guys to us. And what happened was they gave us, when we got done, they gave us a hundred dollar bill. Ray gave us a hundred dollar bill. It looked like he just made it, and he probably did, you know. And so I'd come home, I'd come home with a hundred dollar bill, and you know, that was a lot of money. That was a lot of money back then, especially for a 15-year-old kid.

Mike Gonzalez 36:16

Thank you for listening to another episode of For the Good of the Game. And please, wherever you listen to your podcast on Apple and Spotify, if you like what you hear, please subscribe, spread the word, and tell your friends until we tee it up again for the good of the game, it's gone.