Dennis Walters - Part 2 (Caddie Lessons)

Dennis Walters 0:15

We got to see some things that we would never have gotten to see. The other thing, one of the other things I remember was the pro Johnny Alberti, he was on the Wilson staff. And on a regular basis, Patty Berg would come over and give a clinic, and uh Sam Sneed played an exhibition. One time uh Billy Casper and Julius Boros came to play an exhibition. And so me and my buddy got the we we got the job there. See, all those bribes I gave the caddy master paid off because I got I got the good loops. There you go.

Bruce Devlin 0:53

So yeah.

Dennis Walters 0:53

So it was during it was just before the Ryder Cup in uh I think it was six, I think it was '63. And uh it might have been '62. Anyhow, it was the year that Julius Boros won the won the U.S. Open at Brooklyn. 62. So this was in the fall. They were going to go over to England, I think, to play in the Ryder Cup, and they came to Jumping Brook to play an exhibition. So we flipped, and my friend took Julius Boros, and I got Billy Casper. And so we're we each have a shag bag and we're going down the hill there. They're going to hit, they're going to hit balls to warm up. They're going to give a little clinic. So we're about maybe 60 yards out, and Julius Boros goes first. He shanks the first two shots. And so we're going, this guy won the U.S. Open twice? Wow. 63 it was, I think.

Mike Gonzalez 1:54

Yeah, the country club, 63. The country club.

Dennis Walters 1:57

He's in a playoff with Jackie Cupid and Arnold Palmer.

Bruce Devlin 2:00

Yeah.

Dennis Walters 2:00

And so Julius Boros, oh, P.S. shot 68 that day. And uh and uh Billy Casper, about the fifth or sixth hole, I noticed that he was fading his woods and hooking his irons. And I'm going, hmm, that uh that ain't the way I play. You know, I'm hitting a big hook with everything, right? So I said to him, I said, Mr. Casper, I said, I notice you're you're fading your drives, but you're hooking your irons. It seems like you'd want to do the opposite if you could do that, because wouldn't the ball come in a little softer? He said, No, I said, kid, I've been hooking a ball my whole life. He said, but I got this driver from uh Sam Sneed. He said, and try as I might, I could never hook it. He said, so I just played a little a fade with it. And I think he used that driver for like 20 years. Can you confirm that, Bruce?

Bruce Devlin 2:54

Uh, not no, I can't, but uh he was uh I can tell you one story about Mr. Casper. I played with him the last two rounds at the Western Open. And I went back to my wife that night and I said, I don't know what I'm doing. Trying to play professional golf, because this guy that I played with today just, I mean, Casper was one hell of a player. Oh, yeah. Great career. What a great golfer.

Dennis Walters 3:23

He he's probably one of the most underrated guys, wouldn't you say?

Bruce Devlin 3:26

I I would most definitely have him as probably the most underrated player that's ever played the game.

Dennis Walters 3:33

Yeah, well, he was really nice to me that day, and then I I as I started doing my shows on tour and on the on the senior tour, I got to know him a little bit. And uh one time uh one time Fuzzy Zeller got me a master's menu from the Masters Champions Dinner, and I got everyone who was alive at the time to sign it in various ways. I I would see a lot of them on tour or on the senior tour, but a few of them I uh I went to Billy Casper's house and I got him to sign it. And uh there were a few other ones that were kind of cool too. Um but the at Jumping Brook, it was it was quite a place. And I did a show there last year, and the course, when I was a kid, everybody said, Man, this is a good layout, and but it was always in rotten condition. Dandelions in a fairway, fairways were soft, the greens were hard. But I went back last year, it's like the hundredth anniversary or so, and the course is in beautiful condition. They had to change a couple holes because there was a shopping center built nearby, but I would say I'd say at least 12 of the holes, 13 or 14 of the holes are are the the old holes. Yeah, and uh now that it's in great shape, it it's a beautiful course to play. And it's it's you can see classic architecture all over the place. It's just really, really not. It was a cool place to grow up. And my other one of my friends, my best friend, he was caddying over at this place called Hollywood, the Hollywood Golf Club, which is still to this day my favorite golf course. And so somehow this kid finagled his way into being the assistant caddy master. I don't think there was any job involved, but the guy liked him. So the good part about it, the assistant caddy master could play in the afternoons. So they were having the state caddy tournament, which is a major in Jersey at the time. So you have all these old guys like the Reds were playing in it, but then you had all the high school kids, the juniors were playing in it. And so I was gonna go playing it from Jumping Brook, but I'm I'm 15. I I have no way to get there. So I hiked out onto the highway about a mile or so from my house, and they picked me up. The caddy master from Hollywood was a good player, and then my buddy was there, and the other kid, one other kid uh who was a decent player. So the caddy master put me in the back seat, doesn't say a word the whole way up there. So we go and I shot, I shot 74, and he shot 77, and so he had me in the front seat on the way home. And he's talking to me, he's ignoring the other two. And so he said, Why don't you leave that goat ranch and come on over to the real course? I said, You know, it's like you know, it's like 20 minutes away. I gotta get my mom to drive me over there and all this kind of stuff. So it was in August, and I said, Eh, you know, I'm gonna take a shot. So I got my mom to drop me off. The guy, you know, he gives me a big hello, you know. Uh I'm sitting on the bench, and uh so he calls me, he calls me, gives me a loop. And I'm going down the fairway and I'm going. I mean, there's not a blade of grass out of place, and there's all kinds of beauty, trees, flowers, everything. I mean, I said, when you die and you go to heaven, this is what it must look like. The course there couldn't be any better than this one. So, anyhow, man, I fell in love with that place. And so when I got in, I said to my friend, I said, Listen, I I gotta go play on this course. I said, When are you going out? He goes, in a little while. So the um the eighth hole comes back to the clubhouse, and then nine, ten, and eleven are the furthest points out there. I said, I'll meet you on 10. So he goes, he tees off on nine, I meet him on 10. We're playing down 10, then we play 11, then we're playing like from 11 green back to 10 green. We're doing that a few times, and I'm having the time of my life because I can't believe this place is so beautiful. But then we made a big mistake. We we came back down 12 because we had to we had to get back toward the clubhouse, and the 12th and the sixth fair uh they cross. So the pro was out playing and he kicked me off, and then he he kicked me off again another day, and then the third time uh he became like a mentor and a second father to me. It was the only time two times I saw him get mad, and he said to me, he said, Listen, he says, I can't be doing this. I don't want to be kicking you off every day. He says, You can't play here unless you work here. So I said, Well, I said, you know, I want to become a really good golfer, I want to play on tour. I said, could I have a job? He goes, Well, I don't need anyone. He says, but you can work with my two sons. They work on the range. So for the month of August, I worked there on the range, and we we hit more balls than the members did. And we we picked them up by hand. We I had I had a wedge and a yellow basket, and I was flipping balls over my head and hitting them while I was picking them up long before Tiger Woods was even thought of. And so I would always the other two kids would take the bucket and they'd start in the back and they'd come in the front. And I said, No, I'm not gonna do that. I'm going to start in the back. I mean, I'm gonna start in the front and go to the back, and then I would fill up two of these baskets, and then I would carry them in at the same time to build up my muscles. And so uh, but we would have all those balls picked up because at six o'clock we could go play. So we had them all picked up. And if we ran out of balls, they gave us a football helmet and we would shag them while the members were hitting, right? And like I tell people, I think there were rules and liabilities back then, but no one paid any attention to them. And so we uh we had a blast. We had a cabin, we had a little log cabin, looked like the one Lincoln was born in, and that's where we kept all the stuff the bags, stands, the balls, and uh I mean, it was there were and there were a lot of famous people there who were members, a lot of people from Wall Street. One day I'm caddying for this guy, and I'll uh you know, I'm like 15, and he goes, uh we're on the third hole. He goes, Do you have any stocks? I go, No, I I don't have any money. Next haul. He says, if you had any money, what would you buy? I said, I really don't know. Next haul, what are you gonna do when you get in? I said, I'm call I'm gonna get a Coke. I said, then I'm gonna call my mom and get her get a ride home. Next haul, I said to him, Does Coca-Cola sell stock?

Bruce Devlin 11:15

He goes, Yeah.

Dennis Walters 11:17

So he says to me, What are you gonna do when what are you gonna do on the way home? I said, Well, probably go to McDonald's. I said, then I'm gonna go home and uh probably go in my room, watch TV. I said, McDonald's sell stock? Yep, you're uh what about RCA? He says, You're getting the idea now, kid. So I said, uh, all right. So uh at the end of the summer, I bought I bought like five shares of ATT, which through all these splits and breakups and get togethers, I still I must still have it because I never really sold it. And so I remembered that when I got older and when I got a few bucks. And so I that was a that was that was really a great lesson in investing. And this guy had his name on the firm on one of these Wall Street firms. So I knew this guy was giving me good advice, but I think he really liked it. And uh and I really liked it. It was a it was one of the most valuable life lessons ever because that's what I did. I I I started investing uh you know as soon as I could. And I and uh and it wasn't that hard. Just pick out the stuff that you you know you're gonna use or everybody else uses.

Bruce Devlin 12:46

Yeah, yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 12:47

Listen, we we want uh we want you to give our listeners a little insights into how your game developed as a young man, who some of your influences were. But before that, why don't you talk a little bit more about your parents? I know uh your father's gonna come up a lot. He's been very instrumental, particularly in getting you in the game, but also later. Uh talk about your mom, your dad. Uh give us a little insights into both those people.

Dennis Walters 13:10

Well, uh I'll start with my dad. My dad was amazing. He was uh he was something else. I mean, he was in the infantry in World War II, and uh so he signs up for the inf he signs up for the for the army, but he really wants to be a pilot. And so he uh he goes to there is no Air Force, they have the Army Air Corps, but there is no Air Force, but and he's in the infantry. So the first day he's in basic training, this drill sergeant came out. He says, Anybody want to be a pilot? My dad couldn't get his hand up fast enough. So he said, You see this horse manure over here? Pilot over there, right? So my my dad never raised his hand. And um, so he was in North Africa. He he went to basic training and he went, ends up going to North Africa, and uh then they went to Sicily and then Anzio Beach. They went to then they went to Monte Cassino. I was watching the History Channel, and they said that like Monte Cassino was like one of the worst battles of the whole war. There was a monastery on top of this hill, and the GIs and the Germans made a deal. They weren't gonna touch it, no bet no, no uh guns up there or nothing. But the Germans uh put in all these guns and these cannons and everything, and and all the GIs are down at the bottom. They had to fight their way all the way up. And then then they went to Rome and then they went to Switzerland and on to Berlin. So, I mean, my dad was he was a sergeant too. And uh I mean he he was an amazing person, and he totally, totally supported me when this happened. You know, when this happen, something like this happens, it doesn't only affect you, it affects your whole family. And so my mom and my dad supported me, my sister still helps me. And my my dad, he would uh he would always he would say stuff like he was stupid because he didn't know how to spell can't.

Mike Gonzalez 15:30

And uh all right, so tell us a little bit about your mother.

Dennis Walters 15:36

Well, my mom was great, and she was uh she would later on when I started doing my shows, my dad went with me for 17 years. So my mom would stay home, and uh she would uh you know do her thing during the summer, and she she didn't get much credit. My dad got most of the credit, but she was there for us all the time, and we'd be gone for like five months, and we'd come home and we'd say to her, please don't ask us to go out to dinner for a little while. We're sick of it. And so um, and then the we would always like once or twice a month, she would come out and go to she we'd get like a special show, like a real celebrity show or something, and we'd tell her, Come on, come out, come out with us and spend a week with us. You know, we're going to Vegas or someplace and or New York. And uh, so she would, and then we'd say, uh, we'd say, Come on, we're gonna we're going to Kansas and Nebraska. You want to go with us? You know, no offense to those folks, but my mom didn't want to do that. She'd rather go to Vegas or New York. So um, yeah, so and my sister was great. She was always uh, she was always there for me. She still helps me with my show, uh doing a lot of correspondence bills. She actually went on the road with me for a couple summers. My dad went with me for 17 years, and when it got too much for him to do, we went um my dad and I went in the minivan and we had a little trailer for the golf cart. And a lot of the lessons I learned to help overcome this problem came with came during long talks I had with my dad as we crisscrossed America. And so we saw we saw so many things that were just unreal. It's like you can read about all this stuff in a book, but if you take a drive through America, it's it's a it's a PhD in all kinds of subjects. And so that that was the thing I really enjoyed the most was spending the time with my dad uh doing that. And like if we were on a long drive and I hadn't hit a ball like in a day or two, all of a sudden that van would drive off the freeway and find a golf course, you know, because I'd say, ah man, Pop, come on, I'm gonna hit some balls, you know. And uh and I'll tell you something else. My dad, in all the years, he must I I I don't know how many golf balls he teed up for me, but it's a very, very large number. And he never, ever once said, Hey, you know, come on, let's go. It's enough. Never. He would turn the headlights on and let me hit balls or putt while it was getting dark. One one time, then this happened many times. We lived across the street from the golf course as I was starting my career. And invariably on some days I'd come home and I was, man, I was lower than you can imagine. I'm hitting the ball awful. So he'd say, Come on, champ. He says, You can't tee the ball up by yourself and expect to do good, you know, and concentrate. And he says, Come on, I'll go with you. It's like, you know, 20 minutes before dark. So invariably I'd go out there and he'd tee the ball up for me, and I would do better. And so um, you know, he was always there for me, and he would he would always encourage me. And I know that this was a huge blow to my mom and dad, but I think that they both lived long enough to see that I was that I was gonna be okay, and that I was able to make a career out of this and do something that I really love to do, and in some small ways make a make a contribution and try to make things a little better for people uh young and old if they have a physical problem or not. So they they lived long enough to see that, and so that that made me happy that they could see that.

Mike Gonzalez 20:20

Let's talk a little bit about how your game developed as a young man. You've talked about uh some of the influences in terms of pros and caddies, masters, and so forth, but uh how did you learn the finer points of the game? Who were the people that were most instrumental in uh helping you develop your game coming into college?

Dennis Walters 20:41

Well, back in the day, there I I don't remember taking hardly any formal lessons. They most of this stuff was you'd play with the pro who was a really good player. His name was Lou Barbaro, and he was great. I mean, he he won it he won the Rhode Island Open by like 12 shots or something when it was like just about like a tour tour event because he had on his desk, it was like a little plate, like an ashtray, like a big ashtray, and it had every person's name who was in the field engraved on it. And you're talking uh Sneed and Hogan and um Carrie Middlecoff, all these guys. Um and he beat them all, and he was really good. And I I used to caddy for him like in the open qualifyings and stuff, and you know, he he he he he didn't play out of his own divot because I put him back, but he could certainly could have one of those types of guys, and so um he would he would play with us because he would like to play with his two sons in in me in the evening, so he would give us tips and stuff, and but you know what? We'd watch the CBS golf classic. Bruce Crampton and and Bruce Devlin are playing. And you see how these guys are doing it. And uh that had a lot of influence not only on me but everybody else. I mean, who who wouldn't want to swing like Gene Littler and Al Geiberger? I mean, come on.

Bruce Devlin 22:12

Isn't that true?

Dennis Walters 22:13

And so yeah. And so um most of it was trial and error and and basic tips and stuff from the pro and a lot of practice. And uh but it was fun. It was fun learning because it was what I really love to do. I mean, I I never I listen, I put a lot of blood, sweat, tears, and blisters on my hand, whatever the heck you want to call it, but I've never actually looked at it as work. It was not work, it was even to this day. I'm I'm taking three days off, and that's like, you know, that's like a a lifetime. But I'm I'm taking a little break here at home. I don't think I'll make the third day. I think I'll go putt and shift the third day. But um I know I'm taking I took yesterday off and I'm taking today off. But um I I would say that's how we did it. In my case, that's how I did it. I um or or you would get golf digest and you'd try something and it would screw you up for a month, and then you'd have to try try something else. And and and if we had a, you know, we didn't have vit you we didn't have video or nothing, you'd have a camera. You'd have an eight millimeter camera, and you take your swing, then you send it off to Kodak, you get it back two weeks later, you're doing something else wrong. And or you're doing something else right. And so it was people who weren't there have no idea what was involved. Every everyone, that's why back in the day, every swing looked different. You could tell, you could tell swings from two, three fairways over, you know. Oh, that's Gabe Brewer, you know, that's Miller Barber, that's Bruce Devlin, that's Arnold Palmer. Because everybody, there was no standardized teaching. It was hold the club great, line up good, ball position, have good tempo, and go for it, you know. And uh it was just a completely different and interesting time because you know, there weren't that many Harvey Pinnocks that were just teaching golf, and um, even if he was teaching, he was still the head pro. So there weren't teaching pros, there were no teaching academies, there was nothing like that. And um that's why the players today have such an advantage with all the the the diagnostic stuff, technology and track man and all this other kind of stuff. Well, we used our eyes, and I I don't even think I played by yardage till I got in high school. I mean, you just you know, you said, well, that's a five iron. I I'm I think I can hit a five iron in the middle of the green there. So the pins in the back, I'm taking a four, you know, stuff like that. Yeah, and uh then uh we would, you know, as you got a little better, you'd try and m walk off how far you could hit a seven iron, and then when you got on the course, if you had a normal line, it was uh no wind, temperatures okay, yeah, that's a seven-iron. And so totally different learning curve. And uh but you know what? There were so many great players back then that um they were able to figure it out. And when I was in high school, I started to get a little better. I uh I I caddied in the 67 open at Baltash, and I caddied for Johnny Pott. And uh I I knew the course cold because I used to cut school on Mondays and play 36 holes on the lower course, and I said to him on the first practice round, I said, Mr. Potts, I said, I want to be a good player. I said, I'm I'm okay, I'm decent now. I said, but I want to I want to be on tour like you. I said, and I'm telling you, I know this course cold. And so, anyhow, he shot 148, missed the cut by a shot. However, he gave me four dozen spalding dots, which I used to win three state championships in the next five weeks. And so I'd get on the I'd get on the T, and I got on the T in the finals of the State Junior, and this kid says, he's a big kid, he's like 6'2. I'm like 5'9, 140 pounds maybe. And he says, uh, what kind of ball you have? I said, I got a spaulding dot that played in the U.S. Open. It's not nervous, and neither am I. Let's go. And so it's not cocky or anything, huh? Yeah. Well, I I was playing really good, and I got up and and I was hit, I hit the ball far from my size, and I'm I'm out driving this kid by like 20 yards every hole, and he's like twice as big as me. He looks like a football player. And so I had I had uh two birdies and nine par or ten pars, and it was over on the 12th hole. So yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 27:38

So um Yeah, you had a pretty good summer in '67. Uh uh maybe the first golfer to all win all three of New Jersey's amateur events. You you you win the junior championship, then you win the public links championship, then you win the New Jersey Caddy Championship.

Dennis Walters 27:55

Yeah, I told you that was a major. Yeah, that's right. And and that's great. And it's it's too bad he he Johnny Pott didn't give me more of those balls.

Mike Gonzalez 28:08

Yeah. Who knows what would have happened.

Dennis Walters 28:10

The funny part about it, the ironic part about it was when I got inducted into the Hall of Fame, I found out that Johnny Pott lived in Monterey, and I invited him to the ceremony, and we had a wonderful evening uh talking about this stuff and his career. He's telling us the stories about um the Ryder Cup. He was on the Ryder Cup when Ben Hogan was the captain. And so he was, I think he was one of the younger guys, and they're playing at Colonial, and they they said to uh, and Ben Hogan was playing, and so they sent Johnny Pott. They they wanted Ben Hogan, all the older guys wanted Hogan to be the captain, so they sent Johnny Pott. And he sent him to the range where Hogan was practicing. So, anyhow, he he he said to Mr. Hogan, he said, The boys want you to be our captain for the Ryder Cup. And so uh Hogan goes, Ryder Cup? Uh, when is it? September. Where is it? It's a champions. So it's owned by Demerit and Jackie Burke, you know, their buddies. So Hogan goes, hmm, Ryder Cup, September, Champions. He says, I'll let you know in a week. So Johnny Pott went back and they said, What'd he say? What'd he say? He said, He let me know in a week. So then uh Johnny Pott was going into the uh into the bathroom there at the Colonial, and he's going in one door and Hogan's coming out the other, and he and Hogan said, I'll do it. That was it. So and so he became the captain, and uh, you know, that was that's pretty cool. It was a pretty cool story.

Mike Gonzalez 29:56

I'm wondering, Bruce, whether that was the writer cup where uh Arnie buzzed the practice round and is playing a few times. Yeah, that was it. Yeah, I think and uh and maybe Hogan set him down day one.

Dennis Walters 30:11

Yeah, I think that's a I think that's a true story.

Bruce Devlin 30:13

Probably right. So there was one story that Johnny Pott didn't tell you, Dennis. He didn't tell you about his playoff victory at the Bing Crosby. At the B at the Bing Crosby tournament. The clam bake? Yes. He got into a playoff with he got into a playoff with two guys. One was Billy Casper and the other one was me. Oh boy. We get and we're we're we're on the fifteenth green, right? Downhill path four there. Uh Pot hits it over the green. You know how rough rough tough that green is, right? Yes. He hits it over the green. Uh Billy hit it about twenty-five or twenty-eight feet, and I hit it about twenty-six or seven feet. And Pot chipped it in from over the green, and we both missed.

Dennis Walters 31:10

Oh boy. Wow.

Bruce Devlin 31:13

Yeah, so so that that's uh uh he's you're right, he's a great guy. Johnny Pott was uh one of the one of the truly great men that played the game of golf, I think. Glad you got to meet him.

Dennis Walters 31:29

Yes, sir. When I was caddying for him, he was hitting, you know, we had to shag the balls at the U.S. Open.

Bruce Devlin 31:37

Yep.

Dennis Walters 31:38

And so there's 30 caddies out there, and you're shagging a wedge, and the guy next to him's hitting a two-iron over your head. And so he was hitting, he wasn't happy with the way he was hitting his long irons. They were going out and they were kind of ballooning. And so he said, I gotta go fix this. So he had me carry the bag to the Boltistroll. Underneath the Pro Shop was a little workbench, and there was no no vans, there's no trailers. There's if they've got a problem, you gotta fix it yourself. And so they would go down this musty, dark, smelly uh steps downstairs to the basement, and there's a light with a string on it, and it's like one light bulb, and who's in there? Arnold Palmer. He's working on his his uh leather grips and everything, and so um he's I go, hi Mr. Palmer. I said, I I want to be a good player, I want to play on tour like you. He goes, keep keep practicing, kid. So uh Johnny Pot tells him, he says, I'm in my balloon, ballooning my long irons. So he goes, Arnold Palmer goes in his bag and he takes out some lead tape. He says, Here, put them on the top of the club, you know, on the back, but on the top. He said, Uh that'll keep the flight down. If you put it lower, it'll go higher. So he so he did that, and then we marched back to the range. Johnny Pot had his one, two, and three iron, and he hit him and he went like a bullet, and then they took off. Totally different ball flight than today. And um, that's how Arnold Palmer hit his long irons, right, Bruce?

Bruce Devlin 33:22

Yes, sir.

Dennis Walters 33:23

They went like a jet plane and then they took off. Low and then they took off. And then um I said, You want me to go shag some balls? He goes, No, he says he dumped out about 10 out of his bag, and he hit him. He goes, No, this is good, because it he got the flight back. But that's how it was back in the day. And uh so it was that was one of the coolest weeks I had was at the uh was there at the open.

Mike Gonzalez 33:52

Yeah, Jack Jack Nicholas won that open, I think, to me.

Dennis Walters 33:55

Yeah, and um so we repaired with Marty Fleckman the first day the first round, and he was leading after the first round. Correct my picture was in the New York Times holding the pin on the fourth hole.

Bruce Devlin 34:09

Ah.

Dennis Walters 34:10

And uh then the last day, if you remember, Palmer and Nicholas were playing together, and Marty Fleckman and Billy Casper were in the last group, and hardly anyone was watching them. They were all watching Palmer and Nicholas, and there's all kinds of beer cans and everything they're they're having to wade through to get finished. But wow, that was that was that was amazing.

Mike Gonzalez 34:37

Thank you for listening to another episode of For the Good of the Game. And please, wherever you listen to your podcast on Apple and Spotify, if you like what you hear, please subscribe, spread the word, and tell your friends until we tee it up again for the good of the game.