Ian Baker-Finch - Part 3 (The 1991 Open Championship)

Mike Gonzalez 0:15

Welcome to another edition of For the Good of the Game and Bruce Devlin. Our guest today is our first repeater. And I think he won something.

Bruce Devlin 0:25

Well, he's uh he's a former uh well actually not a former, but a British Open Champion, or what we would call today the Open Champion, Ian Baker Finch. Glad to have you with us. What a career you've had, not only on the golf course, but television and Olympics and President's Cup and you know, we've got a lot to talk about. Welcome, buddy.

SPEAKER_00 0:51

Thanks very much, Bruce. Great to be with you. And Mike, uh, thanks for doing this again. Um, really enjoyed the last one, and I've I've really enjoyed listening to all of the episodes I've had a chance to listen to so far. You're doing a great job.

Mike Gonzalez 1:04

Well, thanks and welcome back. Uh great to have you, and and you've been quite busy since uh we last uh were with you.

SPEAKER_00 1:12

Yes, yeah. I went over to Tokyo for the Olympics, and that was absolutely fantastic. I had uh had a great time, and Bruce, you can imagine this. Uh I had a uh a dose of Australiana that I really needed. Yeah, I bet you did. And I'll tell you what, you had a pretty good team too. Yeah, Mark Leishman and uh Cam Smith for the men in the first week. Yeah, and then the second week was uh Hannah Green and Mingie Lee. And uh everyone had a great time and and performed well and uh represented Australia and the green and gold um the way you'd want them to.

Mike Gonzalez 1:51

Well, terrific. We're looking forward to hearing more about your Olympic experience. I'm sure that was quite special. You know, last time we we sort of left off with uh just talking about major championships, and uh we talked uh a lot about uh uh the masters in terms of coverage, your CBS experience and so forth, and that was uh that was quite interesting. Uh the thing we failed to cover was uh the big one, obviously, which was your open championship win in uh in 1991. So uh uh but before we jump into that, I know you related your experience uh on your first open championship, which was quite special, uh playing with the the guys you did that that led you around the course. Uh that of course was was quite useful uh to prepare you for your later open championships. But uh that was back in in 1984. That was the famous Sevi fist pump win at uh at the old course, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_00 2:45

Yeah, it was uh an amazing week for me. My first open championship and had a chance to win, was leading after the second and third rounds, got to play with Tom Watson in the final round, and Tom and I were in that last group on the 18th T when Sevy holed the putt to win uh after Tom had made a bit of a mess of the of the 17th hole there, the road hole. So that was a great experience for me. If I finished ninth, unfortunately, shot uh had a bad last day, but the experience as a 23-year-old just gave me that love of the the open. Uh Bruce understands that it's it's something that we Australians aspire to play in, let alone have a chance to win. Absolutely. And uh to do it at St. Andrews was extra special. So that was the start of my dream, actually. It was uh a great week. Uh we've touched on that, and uh it gave me the belief in myself that I could one day win it. So that was the start of the journey. Yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 3:40

And you know, Tom Watson had his other chances. So since we visited with you, we had a chance to talk to him about his five open championship wins. Of course, it was during open week that we talked to Tom, and and uh course he remembers this open as well. I think we talked about it. The other thing we talked about was uh we had Nick Price yesterday, and uh he told a little story about how he was slumming it around Europe for a couple of months, and it reminded me of the story you told of bunking up with Mike Clayton and the boys, sharing a room and you know, really roughing it.

SPEAKER_00 4:11

Yeah, well, you had to save money in those days. No, no one was making any money. Uh I think the the year before uh I made like, I don't know, ten thousand dollars or whatever for the year until I finally had a win and a couple of good finishes. But if you if you made$50,000 in a year, you were playing pretty well back then around the world in Europe, etc. And uh the open was your big chance to make a good check because it was uh it was obviously the largest event being a major championship. But you you just stayed with your mates uh three or four in a room at we at that open we had six of us in a house, uh one one bathroom. My my girlfriend at the time, Jenny, uh now my wife um was with us with Clayton and Grady and Stevie Williams and uh our manager, we're all there slumming it in this uh old farmhouse. But that's how you did it. Yeah. And it was fun.

Mike Gonzalez 5:08

Yeah. Curtis Strange uh said that he and Sarah used to budget about$18 a night for hotels.

SPEAKER_00 5:17

Yeah, you can't get breakfast for that now.

Mike Gonzalez 5:20

Well, let's jump ahead to to uh to 1990, which was also uh uh good preparation. Again at the old course, uh you shoot 64 on Saturday to put put yourself in the final pairing with the eventual winner, Nick Faldo.

SPEAKER_00 5:35

Yeah, that the Saturday was a great round for me, memorable. I was nine under par through 12 holes, and thought, you know, if everything kept going swimmingly, uh I'd be a chance of shooting something extra special, maybe breaking that 63 barrier that was uh the the championship record and major championship record. Uh and I missed a couple of putts that I could have made, and I three-putted 17 and didn't make a birdie at the last, so ended up with eight under 64. But that got me into that last group again. So after being in the last group in 84, I was in the last group again with Nick Faldo this time, and uh Nick was just put on an exhibition and won in style, and I think a record score from memory at that time. And uh uh a quick uh memory there, Nick was he gets so caught up in his own game, and that's why he was so great, Bruce, as as you can imagine and and understand in majors, he didn't really even realize I was there, he was just in a trance. It wasn't nasty in any way, I'm not saying that, but it was just he was doing his job. And uh he hit his first putt on 18 up close, and he was walking up to tap it in. I said, Nick, Nick, Nick, and he sort of stopped and turned around. I said, Hey, would you mind marking and letting me put?

Bruce Devlin 6:55

Let me finish, will you?

SPEAKER_00 6:57

Yeah, I mean it's only six inches, buddy. It's not like you're gonna miss it uh six times to lose. I think he was winning by three or four shots. But anyway, that that day with Nick really gave me um a great lesson in how you had to be if you were going to eventually win one of these major championships. I knew I had the ability if if I played my best, um, but he showed me how you do it. And uh it's why I went on the next year. I I really focused a lot better uh the next time I had a chance.

Bruce Devlin 7:27

And interestingly, we w that subject came up again with uh with Nick Price about how how uh how important it was to watch a for him to watch a guy like Nicholas who would you know talk with you for a while as you walk along the fairway, but when he got fifteen yards from the from his ball, he went into his little zone too. You you know, you could have you know you you could have let off a firecracker and it wouldn't have affected him.

SPEAKER_00 7:54

Yeah, he was the best, wasn't he?

Bruce Devlin 7:56

I think so.

SPEAKER_00 7:58

Yeah, and then Tiger maybe took it to another level.

Mike Gonzalez 8:04

Uh let's go to Burkdale, 1991. Uh just what you know, fra frame of mind and and and so forth going into that week.

SPEAKER_00 8:13

I I was in a great frame of mind. I was in a very very good place in my life. We just had a little baby girl that was uh we were enjoying Jenny was pregnant with our second girl Laura at the time, about five months or so. Uh travelled over after losing in a playoff to Bruce Fleischer the week before at the Pleasant Valley uh event, had a chance to win there, should have won, um, lost in the playoff. Anyway, chose the right one to win, I guess. And went in there with as really a lot of the players and caddies backed me that week. It was one of the worst results for the uh for the bookies. They had me at about 40 to 1 coming in there, and I'd been playing well every week in the States. I'd won a tournament uh two or three weeks before up at uh Oakmont, uh a non-tour event, but uh but a nice event with all the top players playing. And um then losing in the playoffs the week before. So a lot of a lot of guys knew I was in good form, even though the bookies hadn't ri recognized it. So felt comfortable, uh, went out for practice round. Um uh when I arrived there Monday afternoon, I had a practice round again, Tuesday, again, Wednesday, playing well, and I just tried to get myself into the frame of mind that let's treat this like any other tournament back in the States or any other major event that we'd been playing uh to not let it get too much for me, I guess. I I knew I could win, I knew I was in good form, I really wanted to win, obviously. But I had never been in that situation, I guess, where I felt like I was one of the guys you had to beat if you were going to win that week. It was unusual for me. I wasn't a a Norman or a Faldo or a Strange or one of the pricey, one of the top guys. I was one of the guys that I knew I could do it if I played my best. I was about 20th in the world at the time. So um having Janny there with me in a nice comfortable environment and a little house down the street um just allowed me to go play golf.

Mike Gonzalez 10:14

So you didn't share a house with five other guys then, huh?

SPEAKER_00 10:19

No, I could have by then I could afford to rent our own house. It was but even then it was like two and a half thousand pounds or something. It wasn't these days, they're some of those homes are 20,000. It's uh quite expensive now to rent homes and and travel with your family.

Bruce Devlin 10:34

So uh at the open that year, uh Finchie, you got you know nice steady starts. The first two rounds 71, 71. But then boy, you turned it on the last two rounds. 130 is pretty low around Birkdale for two days, man. That was great.

SPEAKER_00 10:53

Yeah, Birkdale's a great test, isn't it? What a lovely golf course. Did how do you rate it, Bruce? Is did you rate it as one of the the better open benches?

Bruce Devlin 11:02

I thought it was, yeah. Uh obviously I love the old course. Um, you know, we we we even talked about about my my first relationship with the old course, but I did I did love Birkdale, and and of course I won a uh World Golf Championship there, and when I came back from from winning, I named the new house that we built in Canberra Burkdale. Yeah, that's the name of the house. Yeah. Anyhow, uh yeah, I I think Birkdale's a great track. Very rewarding. Yeah, I agree with that, you know.

SPEAKER_00 11:36

And it just sits there amongst the dunes. It's almost uh obviously it's well over a hundred years old, but it's it's like a modern course in that it's a great gallery course because of the dunes and the way the course is set up.

Mike Gonzalez 11:50

I don't know what kind of weather you guys had that particular week. My first exposure to Burkedale, I played it in a four-club wind, and it wasn't a lot of fun for an amateur. No.

Bruce Devlin 12:00

But it's it's a fabulous test of golf, I think. And it's not, you know, it's not over, it's not one of those overly long golf courses, but uh it's fun to play, especially when you're playing good and you can shoot 130 for two rounds. Goodness me.

SPEAKER_00 12:17

You know, it was the greens weren't good, and I think that was the big knock that week, is the greens were in bad shape, and I think uh, boy, it's 30 years ago now, but I think they redid the surfaces of the greens the following week. They they knew they needed to do something. Something had happened to the greens with you know um a fertilizer or something that they had applied to the greens in preparation for the open. So I think they redid them after they were that that poor, they were that um kind of grainy, it's that natural fescue, the grass there, but it was not good. So putts were hard to make, and everyone was saying how difficult it was. But they've the greens got a little better as the week went on. And I had uh I finished Eagle Birdie the last two holes on the Saturday for 64. Uh, had played well all day, but just started to hold a couple of putts there on the uh on the homecoming nine. And uh that got me into the last group again. So and I think the best thing about the being in the final group this time was I I played alongside Mark O'Meara. And Mark was a good buddy of mine, we were practice mates back in Florida in Orlando where we lived, and he was a fast walker and a smooth swinger, and someone I really liked to play with because we had a good chat, we were buddies, we pulled for each other. Um that was my ideal partner, someone like that. That you know, if you have if you have someone that you like watching their swing or they keep you in a good rhythm, and I was a five mile an hour walker, long legs, like a Davis love. I love playing with Davis as well, same thing. I we you just chatted along the way. There was it was just a comfortable pairing.

Mike Gonzalez 14:01

Your caddy that week?

SPEAKER_00 14:03

Pete Bender. Pete is uh one of the more famous caddies that came out on tour in the late 70s. He and Andy Martinez, I believe, were the two of the first. Andy used to caddy for Johnny Miller. And uh, I believe they may have been two of the first handful of caddies that uh cadied at Augusta for the Masters. You know, used to have to have Bruce, you'd know you had to have a local caddy for many years there. So anyway, Pete was great. He'd also caddied for Greg Norman when Greg won in 86 at Turnberry.

Mike Gonzalez 14:41

So that must have been helpful to have him uh have him on the bag. Was he not your regular caddy?

SPEAKER_00 14:47

Yeah, yeah, Pete was my caddy for about three years, from 89 to 92. I wished I'd kept him. Uh I didn't play very well after he left, unfortunately. We had a little argument one day on a golf course that he basically said, Oh, well, I think we should have a rest. And I said, Okay, well, if you think so, it was sort of the end of the season, and I was going back to Australia to play for four months, and he got another bag. That was it. Anyway, um It's like any other relationship. Yeah, it is. It's hard being a caddy, but Pete was great, and I still keep in touch with him. He's he's still caddy a bit out on the champions tour. He's in his 70s now, and uh one of one of the really good guys. Caddy a lot for Jack Nicholas along the way, and amongst others, you know, Greg. And anyway, he he kept me going. He's he said it was like riding secretariat that week. He said, just stay out of the way and make sure you stay on.

Mike Gonzalez 15:39

Well, as I recall, Sevy uh had the lead after round one. I think he shot uh four under and and uh and then um uh my notes say he caught a bad draw. I don't know, was there some weather issues on day two that might have caught uh some guys uh on half a day?

SPEAKER_00 15:54

Yeah. It was it was a really uh was was poor weather, and it was the largest cut ever in the history of the open. I th I want to say it was 118 players. 108 or 118 players made the cut because it was a 10-sh rule and two under par led.

Bruce Devlin 16:13

Yeah, so that's the reason why then two under par led, huh?

Mike Gonzalez 16:18

I think uh I th I think Elk was tied for fourth after the second round. So he was in it for a while.

SPEAKER_00 16:25

He was. There was it was a really good field uh all the way through as far as that the leading players at that time were there. And I remember Sevi making some comment after the third round that he didn't think the guys at the top would be able to win, that he thought he was a good chance because you know guys like Marco Mira and myself, we didn't have the experience. Like there's kind of a silly comment for Sevi to make. It kind of makes you try a bit harder.

Mike Gonzalez 16:54

So you shoot 29 on the front on your last round, is that right?

SPEAKER_00 17:00

Yeah, I I was um just in in a zone, uh hitting the ball exactly where I wanted to hit it, uh, just at the flag most of the time, or where I wanted to hit it if it was a tight shot. Drove it in every fair way. And that allowed me I I hold it from about ten foot at two, ten foot at three, maybe twelve foot at four, six or eight feet at six, and about fifteen feet at seven. So it was five under par through seven holes. And uh I remember looking up at the leaderboard, and uh there I was I was walking off the back of the seventh green and I saw my name up there above Sevi and Freddie Couples was there, and uh Mike Harwood, I think Eamon Darcy was up there, Greg Jodie Mudd was playing well that last day, was was a was a good board, but I was five in front, and I thought, bloody hell, I've I better not screw this one up or I won't be allowed back in uh to go home.

Mike Gonzalez 18:02

So now had you had that thought, let's say, six, eight years before that, uh, might it been a different result?

SPEAKER_00 18:10

Yeah, I I think previously I was a bit of a pretender. I was I was capable of shooting and good scores, but I wasn't really a winner. And uh by this time I had won enough or believed in myself enough that I knew if I did play my best, I I could win. I was one of those guys that would could just sneak up and win. I wasn't the uh wasn't one of the top ten. Although I got into the top ten in the world when I won. Anyway, I I knew I could do it if I just focused and and didn't let the moment you know get the better of me, and I kept playing well. I just hit hit every green and two putted all the way home. So yeah, if you if you've got the lead and you're in the last group and you shoot 29 the front nine, you're usually in pretty good shape. Pretty good shape is right.

Mike Gonzalez 18:56

Was there a moment uh at all before that final putt dropped where you you felt comfortable?

SPEAKER_00 19:02

I had a couple of birdie chances, like the par five, fifteenth, uh, and I I missed the putt, but I was still well in front, still at least a couple in front. Mike Harwood was playing well, Marco Mura was right there, Freddie Couples. And um at 16, I hit a good drive, was a hard hole in the wind, and I hit a good four-iron that nearly hit the flag and went about 15 foot by. And I remember saying to my caddy, you like that one, Petey? You like that one, mate? And he said, Oh, I love it, Vinci, I love it. And I missed the putt, but I two putted to go to 17, which was a reachable par five with a two-shot lead. And I just knew that if I could hit it in the fairway at 17, I could reach the green. So I had a good drive and I knocked a five iron on the green and two-putted for Birdie. So I went to the last T with a three-shot lead.

Mike Gonzalez 19:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 19:54

So then then it was um not a foregone conclusion. You know, you can still lose it, but you'd have to be bloody stupid.

Bruce Devlin 20:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:03

So uh I just aimed it down the left rough. I I didn't take that bunker on Bruce, you know, the big bunker out there that stay away from that. They yeah, they they probably fly it over it nowadays, but um I uh I just said no, just go down the left rough. You can hit it out of the rough if it's a bad lay, even you can lay up short of those bunkers and still make par or bogey. Yeah. And that's what I did. I hit a left rough six-iron just short right of the green, pitched it up to 15 feet, I guess, past the hole, nearly hold the chip, actually, and then two-parted for the wind to win by two. So I was smart that I I played safe. I didn't uh didn't go for glory.

Mike Gonzalez 20:43

Yeah, it's not every major winner that gets to sort of relax and enjoy that walk down 18. So with a three-shot lead, that's a heck of a lot different than being tied or one up or whatever. Uh that had to really be enjoyable.

SPEAKER_00 20:57

Yeah, it's yeah. I would imagine the guys that have that opportunity many times, you know, um going up the last but still needing to grind it out par to win, or you know, trying to birdie to beat the guy you're playing with, or whatever that situation might be, that it's uh that's a grind. But going up there with three shots, I still had to keep my wits about me. I wasn't uh you know waving to the crowd too much and celebrating. I still knew I needed to get the job done, but it was a great uh a great feeling. And then my buddy Wayne Grady, after I holed the putt, came running out with a a bottle of champagne and and uh we cheered each other with the with a champagne, and Jenny was there with Haley and uh uh Pete, of course. So it was it was really great, great feeling. I it wasn't a massive celebration. I think I threw the ball into the crowd um and uh enjoyed it, but uh it was just good to be good to have friends there at the end to share it with.

Mike Gonzalez 21:57

Yeah, there were three other Aussies in the top ten. And uh Mike Harwood, of course, who finished second by two. Uh Craig Perry and Greg Norman all finished in the top ten as well, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:07

Uh-huh. And I think Pete Sr., another really you may not know as as much of him in the States, but Pete was a great player. Um, actually played 10 years on the champions tour here as well, went with uh with great success. So he he was right around as well. But we had a lot of good Aussies at that time. Bruce, we I think we had at one point we had 10 in the top 60 in the world uh in that 90-91 period.

Bruce Devlin 22:30

Four out of the top ten at the at the open championship at Burkdale is pretty fancy too, when you think about it. Yeah, yeah. That's a heck of an effort.

Mike Gonzalez 22:40

So let me quickly ask you about an act anecdote I'd I'd uh read about, and you could tell me if it's true or not. Uh uh read somewhere where after shooting 79 on Friday to miss the cut, Mark Kalkovekia gave his clubs to a bunker attendant who in turn offered Kalk his rake.

SPEAKER_03 23:02

Very true. That is true, huh? That's funny. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 23:10

Oh boy. That was a nice thing for Calc to do. He was a funny part.

unknown 23:17

Yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 23:17

Bruce will I think we're gonna try to have him on, so we'll have to ask him about that one.

Bruce Devlin 23:21

Yeah, we will. We'll get him on at some time, I'm sure.

Mike Gonzalez 23:25

Have you been back for uh any special visits to Burke Dell?

SPEAKER_00 23:30

Yes, uh I've got a quick story for you that in '98 I decided I had played so poorly at Troon in 97 I should never have played. And anyway, that was my last open. Lot of baggage, a lot of uh scar tissue after the 97 at Troon that um Justin Leonard won. So in in 98, I decided to do television for ABC in the States at Birkdale. And it was a really tough decision because when I was there, you know, people you could hear people saying, he won here last time and he's not even playing. And it was it was just a dreadful time for me. But anyway, Mark won, I was really happy for him. And uh I I got to um uh congratulate him late in the evening on that Sunday night, and that was a special moment. But leading into that, Japan TV asked me to come and do a walkthrough with them as they were the the broadcaster for Japan, I think it was NHK, and I walked with their host, uh their Jim Nance, if you will, for the 18 holes, and we walked and I showed him where I'd hit it on the last round, and we talked about it, and then he said on the 18th T, I'm gonna leave you to walk the last hole by yourself. This is the first time you've been back in seven years, and I'm just gonna leave you to uh you know enjoy the moment. And it kind of gets me a little bit uh choked up just thinking about it now. The club had recorded the 18th hole of 91 when I came up the last, or they had the recording from television or whatever, however, they had achieved that. And they the because this was a couple of weeks before the open, all of the stands and everything had been set up, and they played the crowd noise and and the excitement of 91 through the speakers as I walked up in 98, and everyone came out of the clubhouse and clapped around on the on the stand there over the back of the 18th green. So that was a really special moment for me.

Bruce Devlin 25:26

What a nice thing for them to do, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:29

Yeah, very, very special.

Mike Gonzalez 25:31

Your championship medal is on display at the clubhouse at Burkdale.

SPEAKER_00 25:36

Mm-hmm. I I donated the my medal back with all of the uh my memorabilia from that last round uh back to Royal Burkdale. So they they have it all there for people to view. Actually, I had a mate of mine this morning said, There's so many bloody photos of you here at Royal Burkdale, Finchie. And he sent me a lot of pics. He was up there playing, an English fella friend of mine was up there playing. So uh yeah, I like that about Birkdale. They've got a beautiful display of all of the old champions, Arnold Palmer, Peter Thompson, Podrick Harrington recently, obviously Marco Mira, um Johnny Miller. So all of the past champions here have got a big uh display. But it that my medal had been sitting in the in the drawer for like 28 years or something, and I asked my daughters, I said, hey look, I've got this medal, it's been sitting in the drawer, it's worth a lot of money to someone if you wanted to sell it, but I'd I'd like if you don't want it, I'm just gonna donate it back to um to Royal Burkdale. And and we donated a bunch of money to uh to charity uh with that gesture, but it it was just so nice for them to have it and and display it rather than sitting in my drawer for forevermore.

Bruce Devlin 26:48

Nice of the girls to let it go, too.

SPEAKER_00 26:51

Yes.

Mike Gonzalez 26:53

I'll give a quick shout out to Chris Hilton, the friend who was a former captain of the RNA, who tipped me off to your generosity there, and that's why I asked about it. Uh he might have been part of uh some of that ceremony.

SPEAKER_00 27:06

Yep, he was. We uh I I gave it to him actually at the Australian Open uh a couple of years ago, two or three years ago now, when he was captain, and uh I hadn't I hadn't got a chance to go back to Birkdale to do it, so we did it. He was actually at the Australian Open and we did it there. So anyway, yes, he was a big part of that.

Mike Gonzalez 27:27

That's great. Well, you know, if uh finishing off your list of of former winners, uh uh Savvy was a former winner, Tom Watson, a former winner there, Jordan Speath, uh Jordan, that's right. Uh and and so uh you know, you go through that list. I'm not sure, is there a better list of champions uh at an open venue?

SPEAKER_00 27:48

Pretty hard to find a better list, I'll tell you that. Yeah, it's a great, great venue. Great uh great to be there with uh with Tomo and Arnold. Oh yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 28:00

It's a it's a pretty good list. Pretty good list. Okay, anything else uh that you'd like to reflect on from that 1991 victory at uh at Royal Burkdale?

SPEAKER_00 28:10

No, just to say that uh obviously it was the the best moment in my golfing career, of course, to to win my my goal, to win the open championship. So I'm forever known as an open champion because of that that one week and that that great week at Royal Burkdale. So forever grateful and and humbled by it.

Mike Gonzalez 28:31

Well, you had a chance in your career also uh uh to represent your country, and uh uh I know you had a chance to um uh to play in the President's Cup, or or rather to serve as as uh as as vice captain and and uh and as uh Gary Player's assistant captain across uh uh combined, I guess, four different President's Cups. Um uh you represented Australia in the 1985 World Cup and the Dunhill Cup in 89 and 92, so quite a bit of uh team competition as well.

SPEAKER_00 29:03

Yeah, always good fun. It's hard in golf. We all love team sport, Bruce, don't we? Coming from Australia, we played everything.

Bruce Devlin 29:09

Yeah, there's not much uh in golf though, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_00 29:13

And and when it uh when it's available, you do it. The World Cup was always tough because it was often opposite the Australian Open, so I had many more chances to play it, but it was hard to hard to miss your national championship to travel around the world, and the money wasn't like it is now. So um the President's Cup was a lot of fun being there with the guys, not being able to play well enough anymore to make the team to be the vice captain with Gary Player and co-captain once with Peter Thompson. Uh lots of great memories there with the guys to to represent, do the best you could. Uh always ended in tears there for me because uh we didn't win, but we tied one time with Gary in 03. But you you do everything you possibly can to um to make the team the best you can, give them the best opportunity, and at the end of the day, you come up a little bit short. It's always hard to take when you can't control it yourself.

Mike Gonzalez 30:07

Uh something we didn't touch on last time. Uh uh we'll get your comments on it. At some point uh in your career, I think it was probably uh 95 or so, you found that uh you weren't playing the way you wanted to play. Uh t take us a little bit through uh for our listeners what uh what went on with your game.

SPEAKER_00 30:29

Basically, to you know, you could I could spend a an hour on the couch with a psych uh unpacking all of that, but let's not do that. Uh I just lost my confidence. Uh I started to I I really wanted to to win more, to win more majors, to be a better player, and I figured that the number one thing I needed to do was to hit the ball farther. I was an average hitter, I was well up in the stats in every other category, top ten, um, in every stat except driving distance. I was I was average, I was 260, 265 at that time. So I was between 90th and 100th on tour. And I tried to flatten the arc of my swing to hit the ball further, and I lost the ability to hit it down the left with a fade. And every once in a while I'd hit one down the left thinking I'd bring it back and I'd pull it a yard or two, and that became a fear, and it became a hook uh at the wrong time, and basically I just lost my confidence. So come 95, I played half a dozen tournaments at the start of the year, and I'd missed the cut in all of them. And I took about a two-month break, uh, went to the gym every day, did a yoga class every day, got myself in great shape, went and saw a sports site, did everything I possibly could to try and get myself more confident in myself to go play again, and I still came back and would miss every cut by a shot. So that year I played 15 events, missed all 15 cuts. Um 96 I started out and I played 11. The British Open in 96 was my 11th tournament in a row, and I missed all of the cuts. So I'd miss 26 in a row, I guess. Boy, oh boy. Amongst others that I played, so it was bloody hard. I just I could still play, I could still shoot 66 on Wednesday in in the pro-am, but I'd hit it out of bounds off the first T on Thursday, that type of thing. And I I stepped away from the game, said to my wife Jenny, I'm gonna take a year off, just gonna go practice. Gary Edwin was a nice enough uh mentor and friend back home to um try and reteach me the game. Unfortunately, it was different to how I had taught myself, so I never really um gravitated to what he was trying to teach me, although it was very good. He had taught many other really good players. I just couldn't do it. It is, mate. Yeah, I I wished now that I'd just gone and figured out what my swing was again and and just done that. But I the the confidence is very hard to confidence can be shed uh very, very quickly, and it's very, very hard to rebuild. Mind the mind, man.

Mike Gonzalez 33:21

For our our listeners who are you know listening to say, wait a minute, Ian Baker Finch, champion golf of the year 1991, one of the best in the world. Uh and and you know, how do you lose confidence? But for anybody that's played the game, uh, you're right. What happens between the ears uh impacts a lot of how you perform on the golf course, doesn't it?

Bruce Devlin 33:42

It's very, very difficult.

SPEAKER_00 33:45

You know, with the great Yogi Bearism, you know, he said it's 90% mental, and the other 10% is all in your head. Yeah, yeah, right. The other 10 in your head. And that's so true.

Mike Gonzalez 33:57

Maybe that's why this game is so hard. And and you know, you might have uh you might have shared this with us the first time we we were together. I know other guests have shared this, but uh they've all agree, I think, that if there's anything that's really advanced other than technology in the last 30 years in the game, it's the mental side and how these young kids are coached differently, prepared differently for that part of the game.

SPEAKER_00 34:20

Yes, totally. The the science of the game, the the uh information sharing is is just incredible these days. So there's the kids come out of high school ready for college, already on a path.

Bruce Devlin 34:34

Um and they have that's the biggest change I've seen.

SPEAKER_00 34:39

Yes. They're their team. They have a team with them that uh trains them, coaches them, uh leads them, feeds them. It's uh it's amazing what's available to them now. But then you still have to work hard, it's not it's not any easier, and the depth of talent is so far greater that uh the rewards are there. Athletes take up the game now at a young age because of you know the way Tiger, I think, um, was the impetus in in that. Athletes, uh not that the guys before weren't athletes, but more and more are coming along now. And the the equipment, Bruce, we could go on to do a whole show on the equipment. I'm sure you a lot of your other um guests on this show have know a lot more about it than me and have been interesting uh conversations, I'm sure, about the equipment.

Bruce Devlin 35:29

However, it it's it's worth it's worth finding out what your thoughts are about the equipment, too, Vinci. You know, uh the game today is totally different to the one that you played when you were a very, very good player. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 35:45

The the speed they create is immensely different to the way we played. We had the ball that spun so much we had to keep it in play. You'd can't tell me that Tom Weisskoff and Greg Norman and Jack Nicholas couldn't have swung at 124 mile an hour as well if they'd had a 45-inch long graphite shafted driver that weighed three ounces less than the ones they used.

SPEAKER_03 36:09

Correct.

SPEAKER_00 36:10

You know, that they were athletes, Arnold Palmer, Gary Player, you sell yourself, you know, Crampton, all of all of the guys, Watson. So, but the equipment wasn't such that you could swing that fast and control the ball. So yes, equipment has allowed a lot of uh the the changes in the way the game's played. And and then you know, you get into the way golf courses are set up now, Bruce. The uh the the distance now if you're not a long hitter, you're behind the eight ball. You you can be a Kevin Narr, you can be an average length hitter and win occasionally and grind it out, and he's the best putter and the best short game guy on the game. Um, and he can win occasionally. But if you want to be a real champion and win all the time, you've got to be able to hit the ball over 300 yards. And um, you know, I I don't think we're gonna see too many more Corey Pavens uh in the game of golf or Jeff Slumans. You know, that's you're gonna have a lot more Brooks Kepkers and Dustin Johnson's and Bryson DeChambeaux coming through because distance is the key. Yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 37:16

So I I guess uh an obvious question then, uh Ian would be do you think changes need to be made for the good of the game?

SPEAKER_03 37:25

Hmm.

SPEAKER_00 37:27

That's you can answer that easily on either side of that question. You can say, no, the game's so exciting, we're bringing younger people to the game, the guy the guys are so athletic, let's leave it the way it is. Uh and you can also say, well, if we're going to save all our great historic golf courses, um and if and if the the disparity between the tour player and the average player uh is so wide now, it's a hundred yards per hole difference between a good amateur player and and uh of save my ability to uh to the tour player, the way the courses are played is so different with this new equipment. So if we want to save all those icons of of the game, maybe we need to change the ball or the driver head size or or something. But there's a lot of smarter people than me trying to figure out this problem. And do we change anything for 1% of the players in the world of golf? Do we just let them do what they do and make all of the old great courses past 70s and add back T's and um keep the game exciting for the young fan with the Bryson de Chambeaux hitting at 375? Um you know you you can't design a course for the elite players now, it's impossible.

Mike Gonzalez 38:54

Yeah, and and there's certain things that that uh the ruling bodies are not going to be able to control. They're not gonna be able to control these guys getting faster and stronger. That's just gonna happen. There's not a thing they can do about it. Uh so the only the only tools at their disposal really are the implements you use to play the game.

SPEAKER_00 39:14

It's a tough one though, isn't it? Do you do you want to stop the athleticism and do you want to s do you want to curtail that those abilities? Um my fear is that it will become too one-dimensional, where everyone will be Wilco Ninaba, 365 in the air, Bryce and DeChambeau, Dustin Johnson will become average at 330, you know, it eventually, if it keeps going this way. Does is that good for the game? It's exciting to watch. So in some ways it is. But when when someone like me um who can still play the game quite well, I'd still compete from 165 yards in, say.

SPEAKER_03 39:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:57

But they're a hundred yards past me off the T. So I have to go play the blues and look back at the blacks way back there. I can't even play the tips anymore.

SPEAKER_03 40:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:06

As a as a plus three handicap at the club, I can still play the game, but I can't play it from 7,700 yards.

Bruce Devlin 40:14

Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_00 40:14

So I think that's one of the the big problems that the game faces over the next 20 years is how do we save the the great courses that have no more room to um Well you can't. Can't can you?

Bruce Devlin 40:28

You you really can't, you know, take it look at a club like Merion. I mean where you you know Merion like I do. I mean, w w how how do you how do you put another f four hundred and five hundred yards at Merion? You can't do it.

SPEAKER_00 40:43

No, they they did well to to add three or four hundred more to the way it used to be when we played for the last opening.

unknown 40:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:50

Yeah.

Bruce Devlin 40:51

And and it's still short.

unknown 40:53

Yeah.

Bruce Devlin 40:54

On on today's average, uh, that these guys are playing. It's uh I don't know. Like you said, Finchie, though, you're right. You know, you can argue both sides of that issue. It's uh it's an easy argument from both sides, but I know where I sit on it. I I just think the I think the the guys uh that control the game, the RNA and the USG, they've got to do something about it.

Mike Gonzalez 41:18

Ian, what do you think will happen? What I mean you you're you're you're fairly close to the game yet. You you you meet a lot of people that are in the know and are involved. What do you think the USG and the RNA will end up doing, if anything?

Bruce Devlin 41:30

Well, I think they're gonna have to stop this concertina effect with all the clubs, like uh particularly now, you know, we talk about drivers and that uh a lot, but I hear Ian do doing television for CBS and somebody's 247 yards from the middle of the green and he's hitting a damn four-iron. Well, you know, four irons in our day, because I'm a lot older than you, Finchie, but you know, uh four iron for me was you know full out 185. So, you know, you're talking about a hell of a difference.

SPEAKER_00 42:10

Yeah, well, four iron when I first started when you were playing pro golf, it was 26 degrees, and uh it was um 39 inches long, and uh now it's uh 40 inches long, like our old two irons, and probably 22 degrees, some maybe even stronger. A lot of guys' four iron's their longest iron in the bag now. Some some of the four irons are like driving irons, they eat it so far.

Bruce Devlin 42:36

And none of the c none of those iron clubs are solid blocks of metal anymore. They're they're all hollow in the middle of that face, you know, it's like a concertina face. It uh I mean, and that four-iron with three degrees less loft still goes high or higher than the old four-iron.

SPEAKER_00 42:57

Yeah. Yes, it's totally different. And and with a lightweight shaft and and with more speed in this in the date modern day swing. Um it's all about the speed and then the athleticism. Do the do the the governing bodies have I think they're trying to do whatever they can without causing too much trouble. But have they really they haven't fixed the putting problem, but the putting problem isn't really causing the scores to be any different in the game. Um that the things that they've touched really are are fringe issues like making the longest the the driver can only be 46 inches maximum now.

Bruce Devlin 43:43

Right.

SPEAKER_00 43:44

You know, what if you get a guy that's six foot eight, you know, he he might need a 47 inch driver. You know, it's just fair. And with putting, they should just say, hey, the putter has to be the shortest club in the bag. Just go ahead and do it. Just say, hey, that's the rule, has to be the shortest club in the bag. Um Bob wedges can only be sixty degrees. Drivers can only be forty-six inches. Driver head should be three hundred C C instead of four hundred and sixty C C. Just go in and make the rule. But then they're worried about uh the legal side of things too and they gotta fight all of the manufacturers.

Bruce Devlin 44:17

The manufacturers today, you know, they got new equipment out every three to six months. It's fascinating, really.

SPEAKER_00 44:27

And it's it's amazing. Anyway, we uh I I think something needs to be done. They're all trying to get together to do the best they can for the game, but at the same time, we've got to uh continue to try and grow the game and and have young people play, and they kind of like it the way it is.

Mike Gonzalez 44:47

So thank you for listening to another episode of For the Good of the Game. And please, wherever you listen to your podcast on Apple and Spotify, if you like what you hear, please subscribe, spread the word, but tell your friends until we tee it up again for the good of the game. So long, everybody.

Intro Music 45:10

Whack down the fairway. It went smack down the fairway, and it started to slice just smidge off land. It had it for two, but it mounts off now. My caddy, as long as you're still in the state, you're okay.