JoAnne Carner - Part 2 (Winning the 1971 & 1976 Women's U.S. Opens)

Intro Music 0:10

It went straight down the middle.

Bruce Devlin 0:15

When you and Don decided that you guys were gonna go play professionally, you spent most of your travel with him in an airstream trailer, right? Right. And uh and and I just gotta say what uh just quickly here, you joined in 1970, uh rookie of the year that year, leading money winner 74, 82, 83, player of the year, 74, 81, 82, Vare Trophy, 74, 75, 81, 82, 83. I mean, plus you had the two majors of the uh women's US Open. Boy, what that's some record, Joanne.

JoAnne Carner 0:58

Yeah, it uh you know, you just keep uh playing, trying you're trying to win every week, but uh um, you know, you just uh don't realize how well you've done until like the end of the year or whatnot. The first uh win was was uh Wendell West, my rookie year, and uh I tied uh with Marilyn Smith and we went into a playoff. So on the first hole, Marilyn tops it. And uh part four. So I get up, you know, now she can't get home in two. So I get up and you know, all I have to do is make par, right? So I hit this ball, it is going out of bounds and hits the stake and bounces back in.

Mike Gonzalez 2:02

Oh my.

JoAnne Carner 2:02

So then Marilyn tops another one, and I uh chunk one up onto the green, and I think I three-putted for the win or something. But anyway, we were that was my first win. I you know, kept playing and playing and not doing well, and and what you don't realize is you slip into uh as an amateur, you didn't care where you hit it, you'd go find it. But as a pro, for some reason, you feel like you should not make mistakes. You know, you should hit everything much better than as an amateur, and so you start steering it, and your game, you know, your swing gets more upright and uh U-shaped instead of nice wide uh swing. So you lose distance, you lose accuracy, and and all that. So to finally get the win towards the very end of the year was uh great for me.

Mike Gonzalez 3:12

The first victory that you had sort of alluded to earlier that I wanted to get uh a little bit on was the win at the Berdines Invitational, which was at the Country Club of Miami in 1969. This was while you were still an amateur, and it was by one over Shirley Inglehorn.

JoAnne Carner 3:27

Right. I uh it was their richest tournament. Um total purse$40,000, I think. And uh uh I uh went uh was was doing fine and then uh the back side I got uh really uh playing well and uh I don't know what I shot 30 31 something on the back nine anyway to come from behind and and uh beat Shirley uh Ingehorn. Uh I remember Carol Mann saying afterwards uh she didn't know I was walking behind her, but she said, Imagine a G D amateur winning our richest tournament, you know.

Mike Gonzalez 4:34

Were were most of those uh pros back then pretty welcoming?

JoAnne Carner 4:38

Yeah, I had no trouble with them, you know. Uh I didn't uh ever spend any time with with uh most of them because I had my husband with me and did uh you know Don and I did everything together and developed uh you know friends uh in every town uh because you'd come back every year and play for several years.

Mike Gonzalez 5:06

So uh that was it, but uh you know friendly with all of them, but just I I think I uh I think I found an old newspaper clipping uh write up about this event, and it mentioned that she played with Kathy Whitworth in the second round.

JoAnne Carner 5:23

Yeah. Kathy fascinated me. You know, uh she it's un uh her record is unbelievable because it's so hard to win and be leading money winner and and come back again the next year and try and gear up. And because you're required to play in every event, uh, or try to anyway, and you have to do a lot of interviews, which takes away from your practice time. So uh, you know, her record is unbelievable. But her swing fascinated me. You know, I learned the game mimicking um a good swing, you know, which when I was growing up was men, not the women. And so uh I would mimic their rhythm to everything.

Bruce Devlin 6:29

Um and uh like Gene Littler?

JoAnne Carner 6:35

Yeah. Yeah, uh although I was uh yes. Uh but with Whitworth she would take it up and then uh uh drop into it, you know, and and hit it well. But when she got in a bunker, uh, you know, being that was one of my forte was uh sand plate, uh Whitworth would get up and she'd be leaning left with her whole upper body and then pick it up and drop it down and knock it out. Well I mean that's fine. But then she'd get one where she's this far from the lip of the bunker and set to it that way, you know. And and hit it out and hit it uh put from the hole. And what I had trouble with and uh luckily Don would catch uh uh if I was playing bad and he he'd say, uh I'd say when we finished, you know, what what am I doing? You know, I lost everything. And he said, Well, how does this look? And I said, you know, I'd get so fascinated with Whitworth, I would start uh addressing the ball that way. You know, I don't know why I I wanted to mimic, but I had to watch out a couple of times. You know.

Mike Gonzalez 8:15

Well with this being an audio-only format for now on the podcast, we'll have to explain to our listeners that as Joanne's talking about Whitworths, she's got a big left lean toward toward the life with their body. Yeah.

JoAnne Carner 8:28

Upper body builded way left.

Mike Gonzalez 8:33

Yeah, well, you mentioned her record. I guess what always fascinated Bruce and I as we visited with Kathy uh as our first wim woman guest uh was not just uh all the wins, but her 95 seconds.

JoAnne Carner 8:47

Fascinating. Really. It's it's but uh where's the whole theory was if you weren't totally exhausted when you finished, you didn't try hard enough.

Mike Gonzalez 9:02

Well, yeah, interesting.

JoAnne Carner 9:04

I never interesting. I never uh you know, I worked hard, uh uh grinding on a uh what I call grinding on a uh a round where you're not playing well. You know, you have to stay in there and grind and and survive uh you know, shooting 80, uh get it down to uh you know the low 70s. And I always maintain you're not really a true top professional unless you can shoot uh in the 60s when you're swinging bat.

Intro Music 9:44

Yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 9:46

Figure out how to get it in the hole, right? Uh were were you or any of the ladies at the time, and I'm talking about this time of your career, doing much beyond playing to stay fit?

JoAnne Carner 10:00

No. No. Uh I smoked and drank, which is against every rule. Uh so they had uh uh you know the people uh uh accuse me of uh uh beer drinking, but I'm allergic to beer and wine, so it it it uh never works. Um but uh the uh the fact that uh I fished when I was off. Uh we would take the travel trailer and go up into the mountains in Tennessee where we had a place and uh wade the streams uh and whatnot. So you're hiking down to the to the river and and then up and down the slippery rocks and everything. So you know you stayed in pretty good.

Bruce Devlin 11:04

Kept your legs fit, yeah. So Joanne, it didn't take you very long after turning pro to capture your first major. You won the uh 71 U.S. Women's Open at uh Kakwa Club in Pennsylvania by seven over Kathy Woodworth.

unknown 11:25

Right.

JoAnne Carner 11:26

I remember that one.

Bruce Devlin 11:28

Uh I'll bet you do.

JoAnne Carner 11:31

It was uh uh the rough was really deep. And uh, you know, and typical USGA, they narrowed it down the fairways, and uh so you couldn't not get in it, but I could get in it and get out of it with uh three or four irons. And uh most of the other girls couldn't. And uh so I had decided that if I uh because the grains are very, very tricky there, that if I didn't three putt, I would really uh be in contention to win. So uh I worked on my putting and whatnot, and uh I got to uh the seventeenth hole five putting uh I drove it three ten, which was the longest I had ever hit. Um the eighteenth hole was uphill all the way to the green, and I drove it at 295 uphill. Uh I played with Mary Mills, and I remember Mary Mills was going in with the uh forewood, I think. And I had a you know, I'm looking right at the pin, I had a little short wedge in. So I I hit it on, and then uh it was my turn to putt for a birdie, and I got up over the putt, and I said, Cheepers, I wonder if I really need this, you know, because I hadn't looked at a scoreboard. And I looked up at the scoreboard, and the next name was eight shots different behind me. So I said, holy mackerel! Don't really need it, and I just started laughing. I I burst out laughing before I hit the putt. So then I two putted me and won the first one.

Mike Gonzalez 13:50

Yeah, Bruce, uh third place was 11 shots back.

Bruce Devlin 13:55

Yeah, isn't that amazing?

Mike Gonzalez 13:57

It was quite a dominant win. Uh uh you led you led after 54 by 5 over Mary Mills, you mentioned Mary, and and uh I don't know if you remember this quote, Joanne, but I picked up this quote from you that's uh something you you would have said uh supposedly over after the second round. If I don't three-put, I should win this tournament.

unknown 14:15

Yeah.

JoAnne Carner 14:16

That's right. Yeah, that's uh I mean, because most of them couldn't get out of the rough. And and and being long, uh there were a lot of hills there, and I could carry them. And the others were hitting into the hills. So it made for a long golf course for them too.

Mike Gonzalez 14:38

Yeah, so you became the first person to win three USGA championships, different championships. Tiger Woods, of course, being uh uh the fellow that uh had won the same three on the men's side, of course, years later. Yeah, quite an accomplishment.

JoAnne Carner 14:52

Yeah. Like I say, the USGA events were my favorite events because you always, even as a junior, you you played really fine golf courses, and and uh you always had uh all the tricky pin placements, you know, you you had to curve the ball uh into the pins and and whatnot, uh you know, to to get at them. But other than that, you know, it was totally different than a regular tour event.

Mike Gonzalez 15:35

It sounds to me that it sounds to me like you almost felt coming into those weeks that you had a bit of an edge.

JoAnne Carner 15:42

Yeah, I I really feared no one, you know. So, you know, even even playing uh exhibitions with the men.

Mike Gonzalez 15:56

Yeah. Well, you won one other time at the Bluegrass Invitational that year in 1971 at Hunting Creek. That was a win by three over Sandra Haney, and and uh, you know, we've only got uh 40 some wins to talk about, so we won't be able to get into all the details. But uh Bruce, uh we'll jump ahead three years uh and uh 74 was a heck of a year.

Bruce Devlin 16:19

Six victories in 74. Uh I find it interesting though. You know, you you have a great start to your career. You win a couple of times in 71, then nothing in 72 and nothing in 73, and then bang, off you win. 70, 74, six wins, Joanne.

JoAnne Carner 16:40

Yeah, it was uh going through not winning. When you know, you put in a little extra time and whatnot, and and some lessons, and uh then all of a sudden everything starts to click, and uh, you know, you just uh ride it, you know, you're driving well, you're putting well, your recovery shots are are all there. So uh, you know, previous you might make three or four birdies around, but when you're not winning, you're making three or four bogeys around. So when you're winning, you're you're making the birdies, but not making any bogeys. And and uh I just uh got on a roll.

Mike Gonzalez 17:30

So what happened in 72-73? Anything in particular in terms of your game and I had the Shanks and the half shanks. Not good.

JoAnne Carner 17:44

No, no. In fact, you know, I've always had a nickname all my life. Uh, you know, many, many different ones, but uh one was Shank. And uh uh Mary uh I'll think of her name. But anyway, uh she uh uh nickname me named me Shank because I was trying to drive a uh par four green and hit it into the hill just short of the green, and went to hit the wedge up. I'm in the rough now, shooting up to the green, very short distance. Uh I shanked it. So I just walked over, same, shanked it, and then I did it the third time, and Mary Bryan, who I was playing with, said, Jesus Joanne, change clubs. And they said, Why, I'm just getting the hang of it. So that then I was called check.

Mike Gonzalez 18:57

So uh well the next year was a pretty good one too, Bruce, 1975.

Bruce Devlin 19:04

Yeah, really good. Won the American Defender in North uh Ridge Country Club, uh Girl Talk Classic, and then the Peter Jackson, which I think at one point in time that uh after you won it become a major, didn't it?

JoAnne Carner 19:19

That's right. I won it twice, and it and it didn't count in as a major uh because uh they voted it in, I think, uh the year after.

Mike Gonzalez 19:32

Yeah, it was 1979 that uh you know what became the DeMaurier, that uh Canadian Open, if you will. Uh and uh we've had several of our guests that have just missed out on technical majors because they won it the year or two or three before.

Bruce Devlin 19:46

Right. Yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 19:48

And that was a major through 2000 when the when then the uh the uh British Open, ladies' British Open became a major. So so three wins in in 75, and then boom, uh 76, uh four more. So you're really on a roll right now.

JoAnne Carner 20:04

Yeah. You know, once I got going, I uh I I worked with uh with Gardner Dickinson and then went uh uh to Sam Smead, you know, at the end of my career. Uh but uh you know you you start to figure out your swing and and your flaws. When you start to play well, you you know that you usually have I was gonna say three things that you do wrong, you know, continuously almost all your entire life. And and once you figure those out, you can correct uh a round that is uh not going properly because you know you you start a process of elimination to get which one you're doing wrong, you know. So that uh makes your play so much easier. And you know, if you can if you can eliminate uh one bad round or something, uh then you're gonna be in contention all the time.

Mike Gonzalez 21:19

Yeah. Well, by now, uh you're racking up all these wins. You're starting to win uh golf tournaments uh a second time. You're repeating a lot of your titles. As a matter of fact, the thing that stands out about your record, Joanne, is I believe you were a repeat winner at at least 13 different events, including three wins at the Elizabeth Arden Classic.

JoAnne Carner 21:40

Yeah. Yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 21:41

I'm not sure anybody else has done that.

JoAnne Carner 21:44

Um no, come to think of it, uh, you know, uh unless it would be Whitworth. Uh I can't I can't think of that. But it's I think it goes back to uh you get a golf course that you like.

Bruce Devlin 22:00

Yeah. Horse for courses.

JoAnne Carner 22:03

Right?

Bruce Devlin 22:04

Horse for courses, yeah. You know, you you win once and you love the place and you come back and you feel like you can do it again.

JoAnne Carner 22:10

You know how to play uh every hole. You know, you see the picture of where you want to hit it.

Bruce Devlin 22:18

Well, the back end of 76 was your U.S. Women's Open Championship at Rolling Green Country Club in Pennsylvania, where you won uh in the playoff with Sandra Palmer. And that must have been a tough week again because the winning score there, like the first time you won, was you know, well over par.

JoAnne Carner 22:39

It had rained and and uh rolling green is a long golf course to begin with. There's a lot of hills you're heading into. And with the rain, you got no roll, so it played very, very long. And then the greens there are really severe. So if you weren't hitting it long enough to have a short iron in your hand to get the ball close uh to the hole, um you know, potting became really, really treacherous out there. So that's why the scores weren't very good. But they even rolled one the the um last hole because it was so wet that uh some people uh were going in with uh three wood for the third shot.

Bruce Devlin 23:43

Oh my goodness.

JoAnne Carner 23:44

You know, too. Uh so uh it just was a very difficult golf course that day.

Mike Gonzalez 23:53

So well what you're describing sounds to me like advantage corner. Yeah.

JoAnne Carner 23:58

Yes. Yes. That was uh you know, the higher you hit it and carry it, the better.

Mike Gonzalez 24:06

So 18-hole playoff on Monday against Sandra Palmer. Yeah. Uh you open up with a birdie.

JoAnne Carner 24:15

Yeah, I was ready to go. You know, four shot leads. Burdy the first hole because that puts you in a frame of mind of aggressiveness, you know. You have to stay aggressive out there, you know. You don't necessarily go from aggressive to defensive, but you have to watch when you're playing that you don't get the in-between and uh lose your aggressiveness.

Mike Gonzalez 24:49

Yeah, so you had a four-shot lead on the 14th T, and next thing you know, Ms. Palmer picks up five shots on the next three holes.

JoAnne Carner 24:57

Yeah. I don't remember those.

Mike Gonzalez 25:05

Well, but uh you then birdie 17, uh Sandra bogies the final two holes, and and you go on to uh a victory uh shooting 76 to her 78 in that playoff. That was that was then your record eighth USGA title.

JoAnne Carner 25:20

Right, right. That was uh, you know, it was fun. Now that I mean the the only sad part was they never set up a women's senior uh open so I could go for the record of USGA. Yeah. Uh you know, I just needed one more to tie Bobby Jones. So any USGA win is great.

Mike Gonzalez 25:48

So and you're right, it was uh uh you're in great company with the others that have had uh that number of USGA titles. Bobby Jones, as you mentioned, with with nine, and and uh and also Tiger Woods, who won three juniors, three amateurs, and and uh three U.S. opens. So uh now we move into uh the last year of of college for me, Joanne. You won 16 times when I was in college. So we're in we're in 1977, and you win three more times.

JoAnne Carner 26:23

Yeah. Well you know, you just uh you get going, you know, it it's always sad that it never lasts you know throughout the entire year. But you know, you're as good as your driver, wedge, and putter. Uh so when they're all clicking, then you're gonna be right in contention.

Mike Gonzalez 26:50

You know, you you you might make the argument that you were on a roll and in the zone for years, but how how long can you truly be in the zone? I mean, as you look back on your career, what was the longest stretch where you just had it dialed in?

JoAnne Carner 27:05

I don't remember. You know, I I mean you could look go back and look at the record, but uh as far as me remembering, you know, uh I you know, because you had to take time off uh without burning yourself out. So uh you know, you you wouldn't play you know, fifteen tournaments in a row. You just get exhausted. And we we stayed in the travel trailer today. Uh you know, you had to make that drive. Uh and uh that was usually a day and a half drive at least, you know. So you were exhausted when you got there.

Bruce Devlin 28:00

So yeah. We talk about staying uh strong in a stretch between 76 and 83. Think about this. 23 victories, Joanne had in that period of time. So so that would be what you would consider an extremely long streak.

JoAnne Carner 28:22

Yeah, yeah. See, I never think I didn't know that until you uh mentioned it.

Bruce Devlin 28:31

Quite remarkable.

Mike Gonzalez 28:32

Yeah, it sure is. I mean, you you you mentioned your uh your two Peter Jackson wins, the second of which came over Hollistacey by eight strokes uh in 1978. Again, that was uh that was the uh the year before it became a major. So you had two right before they actually turned it into a major, but two wins in 78, a couple of wins in 79, and then uh 1980, another another five-win year winning at uh Whirlpool, Bent Tree, Sunstar, Honda, Lady Keystone, and uh probably a couple of those repeat victories for yourself.

JoAnne Carner 29:11

Yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 29:14

Like Honda was Honda, you had just gone back to back with a four four-stroke win over Judy Rankin. And and you know, just when when it's uh it's going great, it almost gets better because you've got another player of the year year the next year in 1981.

JoAnne Carner 29:30

Yeah. I like player of the year. But I uh to me, I always uh tried to win the Bear trophy, which is the low scoring average for the year, which tells you how good you play well you have uh kept your game. So very good.

Mike Gonzalez 29:50

So give us a bit an appreciation, our listeners, particularly uh, on how the game up to this point, the ladies' professional game, has changed from when you turn pro. Uh as then we get into the 70s, and you've got uh the advent of uh the dinosaur with uh with David Foster getting involved and Colgate Palm Olive and putting some money into the game. Television uh becomes real for the women. Tell us a little bit about some of those changes that really start transforming the game of women's golf.

JoAnne Carner 30:24

Well, you know, when when I started, we other than the U.S. Open, we played a lot of terrible golf courses and um putting, you know, I call them MIA greens, which not missing in action, but minutes in the air, which they were so bad. And uh so uh then all of a sudden uh as we're uh starting to grow, uh David Foster with Colgate decides he wants to have some women players on his uh staff of uh sportspeople. And so uh then he uh selects Dinah Shore, which was the uh most popular TV program uh on uh which Colgate sponsored. Uh Dinah was a uh tennis player, and so the uh David uh Foster asked if she would uh sponsor, use her name as in the sponsorship of the uh Colgate Dinah Shore golf tournament. And so she did, and she started taking lessons and and ended up doing extremely well, you know, because she had the athletic ability from playing so much uh tennis that that it worked uh it worked fine for her. But up until then, you know, we really never got national attention, and this would be the first time we're gonna be on TV other than the US Open. Uh you know, that was part of the agreement that uh when they signed up for the men's open, they had to agree to play the women. So we were like also Rans. And then when uh Colgate came in and started the Dinosaur tournament in Palm Springs, California, uh that put us on the map, really. So and they started using some of the girls in their commercials. Uh so that was uh a big uh income that players had never had before. Yeah, so it was starting to really expand at that point, and and uh then you started getting more uh companies involved when they saw how successful the Dun Shore was. Uh it became easier and easier to get major sponsors to these tournaments.

Mike Gonzalez 33:21

Yeah, Colgate Paul Mell have set a wonderful example for other companies, uh particularly in America. The purse on the tour, LPGA tour in 1970 was 435,000. That was for the whole season, right? Right. Uh fast forward 10 years to 1980, it was up to 5.2 million. So the times they were changing. Yeah.

JoAnne Carner 33:45

Yes. Yes. And that was when we started to uh, you know, uh late 70s and 80s uh play international events. Uh so uh we would go to uh Japan, we'd go to Australia, uh we uh did some uh Colgate uh events in in other countries, um you know, so the over in the Philippines and and that stuff. Uh it was uh everything was starting to really pop for the women professionals. And we were getting the exposure in uh Japan, uh who had some good players who were coming over. Uh then you know, uh the Koreans came in after uh I had left. So it was mainly Japan, but it started growing there so uh from when I started, uh I mean it's amazing how far everything is and and uh how many countries you now have to to go play in, you know, that you never dreamed you'd ever even see. So and the Purses, you know, they went they win in in a um major one. Uh they win more in one year in that tournament than I did in my career. So it makes me a little mad, but uh you really see how far it's grown.

Mike Gonzalez 35:32

Yeah, I haven't done the math, but I bet you could probably win the U.S. Open uh this next year and win more money than the LPGA paid out in the whole decade of the 60s.

Bruce Devlin 35:41

Yeah. Yeah. Isn't that amazing?

Mike Gonzalez 35:44

Thank you for listening to another episode of For the Good of the Game. And please, wherever you listen to your podcast on Apple and Spotify, if you like what you hear, please subscribe, spread the word, and tell your friends until we tee it up again for the good of the game.