Judy Rankin - Part 3 (The Majors, Solheim Cup and Broadcasting)

Mike Gonzalez 0:16

Let's just touch on uh some other really good finishes you had LPGA Championship. Let's start with that. 76-77 back-to-back second place is the one was by one at Pine Ridge uh to Betty Burfint, and the other was uh a T2 with Pat Bradley and and uh and Sandra Post, three back of uh Huguchi.

Judy Rankin 0:37

Chako Huguchi. Um best player we had for a long time from Japan. But I'll tell you about Pine Ridge, because I'm telling you some of the embarrassing things you do in your life as a golf professional. I um I walked on to the 14th green in the third round, and my ball was about 25 feet beyond the hole. And I walked up to my ball, and I had my ball in my hand, and I had not put a marker down, and I'm looking down, and so that penalty cost me the tournament. Oh my, is that it was just you're standing there like a doofus, you know. I don't know. I don't know what I I was deep in thought on something, and I picked the ball up and forgot the marker.

Mike Gonzalez 1:28

I don't know if either one of you had this happen. I remember playing a high school match early morning in the dew on a weekend. I got a ping answer putter. I tap my tap my little light, you know, the little the real small plastic ones, right? Tap it down, walk away, looking around, doing whatever.

Judy Rankin 1:43

On your putter stuck on the putter.

Mike Gonzalez 1:45

And I was I was I was terrified. I'm like a freshman. I what do I do?

Judy Rankin 1:53

You know, I've heard that one before. Wow.

Mike Gonzalez 1:56

Oh, yeah. Well, anyway, so uh uh US Open. Let's talk about T2 in 1972. That was uh with Kathy Ahern and Pam Barnett, uh Susie Maxwell Burning won that one. That was at Wingfoot. What a test that must have been.

Judy Rankin 2:12

It was, it was right after a hurricane had gone through, and um the east coast had been flooded, and the golf course was so long. Um, so the scores were kind of high, but um that was my best chance probably to win the open. And I didn't really blow it, I just couldn't take advantage. Um the 16th hole, I had a little wedge shot. You know, if I hit that close and make the putt, that would have been a big deal. Um anyway, I just couldn't take advantage. And Susie Burning uh made a home run putt at 17, long part three, after not hitting a very good shot.

Bruce Devlin 2:59

Um like about 70 footer, wasn't it?

Judy Rankin 3:01

Yes, thank you. And you know, she had very good friends, and I've forgiven her. But um anyway, that's how that came about. But that was it was a great experience actually at Wingfoot. It's a shame that the golf Chris played as long as it did. Um, but I had one of the best ball striking weeks ever, ever, ever, and I just couldn't capitalize.

Mike Gonzalez 3:23

Well, I'll mention uh another high finish. This was at the 1972 title holder. So this was sort of the one year it made a comeback after having been at Augusta Country Club for years and years. And this was at Pine Needles, but uh uh Sandra Palmer just must have run the table that week, winning by 10.

Judy Rankin 3:42

Well, she did. She did, and it was so funny because the golf course was so long, and um Peggy Kirkbell, her husband Bullet, he had he had set up the course because the title holders had its own little whatever. It was not necessarily LPGA people or whatever sitting up. So I I I I commented on the 18th hole jokingly, that my right foot was on a slant because the T was so far back, you know. But um, but I did play, I did play really well that week, and um and Sandra Palmer um just you know whipped everybody, there's no doubt about it. And um I think I saw in one of your notes that Mickey and I tied for second. So uh but it was it was a good week. That was such a good tournament, such a good championship. And um I I played in the original ones back at Augusta Country Club a time or two, but um yeah, that that should also be reinvigorated.

Mike Gonzalez 4:49

So, Judy, while the Solheim Cup sort of came along uh maybe too late in your career to participate as a player, you certainly had a chance to represent your country as our captain uh back to back in 1996 and 1998, both victories, by the way, for the U.S. side. Tell us a little bit about that experience.

Judy Rankin 5:06

I loved it, loved it, and um, I got the first nod because Joanne Corner was going to repeat as captain, and her husband was not doing well at all, Don was not well, and uh so seven months before they asked me if I could take over, and of course I could, and I would. Um, and it was just a great experience. We played at St. Pierre in Wales, and um uh I loved everything about it. I did not have the college experience, I didn't have that kind of team experience, and um uh you know you're you're a little bit like a mom because that week you're uh you're in charge, you're the boss, you're the nurse, you're the coach, you're the you're the psychologist. Yes, yes, yes, and um uh but I I I really um it was it's one of the great experiences of my life. And um the fact that we won certainly added to it. I've not had the experience of losing, but you know, it that happens too, and um I'm I admire how gracious people are and so on, but uh the the team experience was um richly rewarding to me.

Mike Gonzalez 6:26

Was it the same sort of commitment that uh oh I uh let's say a Steve Stricker would have had to have made uh as a writer cup captain this most recent time?

Judy Rankin 6:36

Um in in miniature probably. Um you know, um I didn't have any assistant captains. I had Yippie and the president of the LPGA. Um our you know, our funding um for all the things was somewhat limited. Um uh we we they did we were able to go the extra mile, I think, with um uniforms and so on, because all that was pretty spectacular. Um but it was just very different and uh uh the the rules of the game were the same, but it has become um a monumentally involved financial experience. Um with uh with the revenue that both the Ryder Cup and the Solheim Cup bring in, uh with the sites now that um are are so spectacular everywhere, and um uh I guess in the in the case of the Ryder Cup, uh quite a little bit of money that ends up being donated in the name of the players. Uh, to my knowledge, well, when I did it, that was not true for the women, and I really don't know today. I can't say. But um uh in both cases, PGA Tour and LPGA Tour, uh, it's one of the great things that happens. And I know it's the PGA of America with the Writer Cup, but let me tell you the PGA Tour benefits enormously. And I don't mean financially, I just mean generally.

Mike Gonzalez 8:16

Sure, yeah, yeah, I agree. You had a pretty strong team both years, didn't you? Some Hall of Famers.

Judy Rankin 8:21

I did, I did, and and and how you get these, you know, independent contractors who are well off to all pretend that um they're just a team and they're not an individual player, um, is tricky. But I think we did a we did a really good job of that. And um, and I think players really they respond to it, they enjoy it. Um it's kind of you know, it's kind of like if you make a mistake, um, I've got your back. And uh you both you both like that help and you like being that person who can help.

Mike Gonzalez 8:58

So, like Bruce Devlin, as we turn the page toward broadcasting, uh Bruce, Bruce came off a miscut uh won tournament back in 77 or so. I think Bruce was the year and and uh uh the NBC guys or somebody asked him, hey, you want to come up to the booth for the weekend and just uh provide your expert commentary, and of course the rest is history. Uh you said you had your early chance, uh, and then next thing you know, you're doing this full time.

Judy Rankin 9:24

You know, um Bob Rossberg had become a good friend um from all the times out in the desert and so on. And um ABC sports wanted a woman in the fairways at the women's open uh the way Rossi was. And he told them that you know, my back was really bad, I wasn't playing anymore, and they should try me. And then I just know this um after the fact. And and then Frank Hannigan was the director of the USGA, and he said, Okay, yes, let's try that. So they asked me, and I and I went to Salem, Massachusetts. And the honest truth is, and I I always really want to point this out to people if I speak or do anything, is um I could not stand in front of 10 people and talk. I had gone through one of my golf went to, you know, heck, I everything did. I I had lost all faith in my ability to do anything. I'd always loved golf on TV, and so when I got that chance, I wanted to take it, but then I thought, I'm gonna get there and I'm not gonna say a word. Nothing's gonna happen. And the blessing of all blessings was they never showed me on TV that first week. All they heard was my voice, and all I really had to do was answer Jim McKay's questions, and um, and Rossi gave me a tutorial of about two minutes and said, there you'll be fine. And that's how I got started. Um but uh talk about that's that's when you have a your desire to do something outweighs your fear. And um, and so you know that that call and that chance, and then the next year a chance at the men's open was you know one of the great, great blessings of my life.

Mike Gonzalez 11:34

So uh you and Rossi came up with one of our earlier guests.

SPEAKER_00 11:40

Arna would say to me, 'How the hell do you know all that stuff?' Because I was a good talker and we'd talk about business and whatever. And I said, Well, I have smart parents, you know, and I read, I read. And uh Arnold would always always pants up and say, Is that true what you just said? And I remember working at ABC Sports as a whole nother part of my life with Judy Rankin and Rossi, and we were the on-course commentators, and I would come in after a round and I'd have some nugget, as Jim Lance used to call him at CBS. I work with Jim also, and I'd have a nugget on somebody's life or whatever. And Judy said, How do you know that? And I said, It's not true, Judy. I just made it up. And I had Judy believed one whole year that all these things I was saying were just made up. I said, Oh hell, nobody knows that. I just make it up. It sounds good. And finally, halfway through the year, she said, Are you serious? I said, No, I said, That's true. I actually interviewed the player, you know, off the course, and I talked to their wife or I talked to their father, and this is something that happened in their life that's true. So, you know, a little study and never heard either as a broadcaster.

Judy Rankin 12:43

Are you suggesting that I'm gullible?

Mike Gonzalez 12:49

Oh, you know, I would have never remembered that little exchange, except I just edited that episode a couple of days ago and I said, Oh, this one I gotta do it. Yeah, of course that's that's Jerry Pate.

Judy Rankin 13:01

That was Jerry Pate, that's for sure. Uh he he's he's a he's a character, funny guy.

Mike Gonzalez 13:09

He is a funny guy. Yeah. Well, you must have worked with some great, great people over these years. I mean, producers, uh lead uh uh people, uh analysts, you know, you know, back the back of the scenes, uh people that that we never see.

Judy Rankin 13:27

Well, my first men's golf experience, the producer was the famed uh Chuck Howard, who could really scream. And and he and he, you know, most producers they spare the announcers all the hard talk or loud talk, like they could be talking the graphics and be just curious, and they come back so nice and talk to you, you know. But uh Chuck Howard didn't do that, he talked to everybody the same way, and you would think that you were finished, that you lost your job for good. And um, he'd come out of the trailer and it's like nothing ever happened, and he'd say, Great job today. And you were thinking, I did the worst thing, and he never mentioned it again. So, anyway, it was uh yeah, so Chuck Howard, um I I of course worked with Jim McKay and Jack Whitaker to um McKay was the most brilliant at taking information into this ear and it coming out like he knew it all his life, and some of it he did, don't get me wrong, but and then um Jack Whitaker was so literate. Um I would have people ask me, um, who writes that stuff he does, those essays and all that? And I said, He does, and he does it in the back of the booth 20 minutes before he's gonna deliver it. And um one of one of Jack Whitaker's great ones, um, I thought and I was uh I was working at Pebble Beach in an open in in a US open and um Jack Whitaker did an essay about brave men and the whole gist of the extra the essay was that he decided that the bravest man in the world was the one who ate the first oyster. Anyway, uh but anyway, those those were were great times, and ABC Sports was living high and living large then when I first got started. Um so I did my first men's golf in 1985, and in 88 um the ABC Sports signed a big contract with the PGA Tour, and they were gonna do a lot of PGA Tour golf, and Rossi uh took me aside and he said, you know, they have to hire people, and if you want to do this on a regular basis, you just need to tell them that you're not interested in playing anymore. And I did, and I got the nod, and um, it went from there and eventually morphed into ESPN and um uh just you know, all kinds of great experiences uh and with great people. I mean, I I worked with um I worked with and have worked recently with Mike Tarico, Mike when he was pretty young in the business still, and Mike now who is at the pinnacle, um, and I think one of the more brilliant people in sports or in many things that I've ever known, and uh a really, really good friend. Uh I love the guy. Um uh in in the world of great people in broadcasting, um I became really dear friends with Peter Alice. And um, I actually had little little tiny part in his memorial at St. Andrews this past year. Uh, but I really loved the guy, and he and his family, his whole family, his wife Jackie. Um, but you know, he he would he if if he was gonna help me with something with TV, he didn't ever pull any punches, he just would say, you know, that's awful. What were you thinking? Or, you know, this, that, and the other. Um, Rossi would get me once in a while with um, he was an English major, if you don't know it, at Stanford. And if I had used the wrong term or poor English, Rossi would sure let me know it. So I learned more with these guys on some things that actually matter than I ever did in school. Uh, so it was some kind of um some kind of education that I've had, probably a couple things I didn't need to know, but um most of the things uh were really valuable to me. And um uh and both my husband and I um had great friendships out there, and I wouldn't wouldn't trade it.

Mike Gonzalez 18:08

Yeah, if you were like Bruce, you didn't get a whole lot of training.

Judy Rankin 18:11

No, that's what I said. Rossi, he took me out on a par five and a par four, and he said, Well, I stand here and I stand here, and try not to get so close that you can't talk, and see you tomorrow.

Bruce Devlin 18:24

Yeah, it's amazing.

Mike Gonzalez 18:26

Yeah, so what are some of your favorite broadcast moments?

Judy Rankin 18:32

You know, I'll tell you a story that kept me in my job, um, which is um Sandy Tatum, who is legendary with the USGA and so on, and with golf in general, um, he told my producer Terry Jastro, we were we were going, we were doing the US Open at Medina, uh the one that Hale Erwin eventually won. And um Sandy Tatum told my producer, he said, I really like what she has to say, but I can't hear her. And um the audio guys had been fighting this with me for years, trying to get my voice turned up. I I know I was overly sensitive about bothering the player, but it so now it turns out, and I didn't know this, the audio guys are in a cart and they're dogging me in the woods, they're following me while I work and watching what I do. So, what I would do is I'd have my yardage book, and I would hold my yardage book like this, and I had the microphone right here, in like in the palm of my hand, in the center of the yardage book, and I would talk like this. And they followed me all day, and then so now I get finished for the day, and I'm taking my equipment off, and the guys are saying, Show me how you talk, and so I showed them how I talk, and they said, you know, you talk into the side of the mic, and you need to talk into the top of the mic. Nobody ever, ever had told me that. Bruce, you talk about not much education, no one ever told me that. And from the day I learned to talk in the top of the mic, we never had that problem.

Bruce Devlin 20:19

Never had the problem again. Yeah.

Judy Rankin 20:21

So, and well, I I'd already been in it maybe I think that was 1990, something right in there. So I've been doing it six years, and that's something no one ever told me. And my audio guys were so great because they were determined to find out why they couldn't pump my voice up.

Mike Gonzalez 20:40

Well, Bruce and I have had to uh Bruce has probably had to relearn it. I certainly had to learn it myself when we started out with this podcast.

Judy Rankin 20:47

Yeah, yeah. Well, uh, you know, there are so in in in every industry, people are so used to what they do, it's some of the most basic things they never bother to mention.

Mike Gonzalez 20:56

Yeah. Yeah. What are some of the more important changes in the way golf's broadcast today versus when you started?

Judy Rankin 21:05

Well, when I when I started, um the on-course commentator, we didn't even control our own buttons, our own mic. There was a guy in a truck doing that. Now you have control over all those things. Now I haven't been on course since 2015. Um, but um yeah, you you have a lot, you uh as time went on, you got a lot more control of what when you could talk and who you could talk to, and so on and so forth. Um and on course commentators eventually grew into having their own space. So you basically are calling what you're seeing, but you don't actually see the pictures. So I'll I often think that on course commentators are a little bit psychic because we go totally by we I went people go now totally by what they hear. And like the producer will say, We're going to so and so, but then from then on, you're you're going on what you hear and what you see live. Um, there are a lot of places where on-course commentators call tape shots. Um, once in a while, there's a producer who doesn't like tape shots called by on-course people. Um, but they have a great sense of timing for how to do that and so on. And I think it's done extremely well. Um so I uh the on-course role has definitely grown. You know, it was it was first you just answer questions, then it was, you know, you can offer up something once in a while, and then all of a sudden you had your own space. And um uh I think that's pretty valuable to have somebody that's looking at the golf ball or looking at the player, uh, whatever.

Mike Gonzalez 22:56

Yeah, Bruce, you were one of the earlier ones out there in the fairways walking with the players.

Bruce Devlin 23:01

First one. First one at uh Tucson Open, 1978. Yeah, I went up to uh I tell this story on Tom Watson a little bit. You know, I've been playing golf since 62, right? And uh I was still still playing on the tour a little bit, and I took this job and uh I went up to him uh to watch it on the practice range. I said, Tom, I'm gonna be walking around commentating on your golf today. And he said, now listen, you've got to be careful, you know. He said, I'm out here trying to make a living. I said, uh, yes, Tom, I understand that. I think I tried to do that for for 18 years, 16 years myself. So and he often gets a laugh out of that. But yeah, that was, I think 78 was the Tucson Open was the first on-course commentating that was ever done.

Judy Rankin 23:54

That's great. I'm sure glad you got something started.

Bruce Devlin 23:59

Yeah, yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 24:01

Judy, you mentioned something early on about the way you don't believe young kids are consuming televised golf the way perhaps they used to. What do you think's gonna need to change in the way golf is packaged and produced to attract the younger generations?

Judy Rankin 24:21

I really don't know. I think that's a wheel that maybe is not gonna be reinvented. Um I think you know, I don't know. I mean, um if you take the younger generation of young men anyway, you know, they're always gonna watch the NCAA tournament, basketball, they're always gonna watch the NBA finals, um uh college football, uh NFL football. Golf is a different animal. There's a different kind of excitement. You have to wanna kind of you know cool your jets and sit down for a while and watch it. Um and I think we who love golf on television, we watch a lot of golf on television not sitting down, passing through the room. It is our favorite white noise. You know?

Bruce Devlin 25:19

Yeah.

Judy Rankin 25:20

Um and and I don't think that's is true or is gonna be true with the young people. Um and I don't know. I wish I wish I knew the answer to that. Um I wish I knew the answer. And and so I feel like one of the things, the thing that would put the LPGA completely over the top with their successes that they're having lately is more physical fans. And yet everything about television golf says we're gonna have fewer physical fans. No, because it's just it's TVs are so impressive and um and and you almost don't need to be there anymore. So these are all kind of conundrums. I don't know the answer to that. I really don't. But I have I have experience in a lot of juniors who play a lot of golf, who rarely watch golf, and that is surprising to me.

Mike Gonzalez 26:11

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So as we speak with Judy Rankin about her broadcasting career, uh, it's important for our listeners to know that uh she was the first woman to work full-time on broadcast of men's golf events. And uh as we speak today, it was just this past weekend that uh she was sort of winding down her full-time commentating career. So, what was that last televised event like?

Judy Rankin 26:37

You know, um it was it was okay, it was good. Um, I kind of did my last big thing at the ANA, which is now Chevron in the future, um at last around 1st of April. And um and I I made it clear then that I wouldn't be on any of the big events anymore, that Morgan Pressell has taken over that lead analyst role. I said I may pop up once in a while if somebody's sick or you know, if if they can use me a time or two. But um the the vast part of what I do, I'm in retirement, and I think it'll be fine, and I know it was the right thing because uh you just in some ways, maybe not totally, but in some ways you just age out, and uh it becomes where I I was listening to Morgan Pressell, and I thought, you know, my vocabulary, every everything that I describe is kind of way different than the way she describes it. Um, and then then we're talking about the same thing, and it made me realize that um um, you know, some people treasure that, but um enough's enough, and it was somebody else's turn. And um anyway, I feel really good. I I feel very good about my decision, and it was totally my move with the golf channel because they have been more than good to me. Um but if I get to do one or two or three and stay close because I have so many friends out there, player friends, but players in the industry of television golf, um, I will be pleased for that.

unknown 28:16

Yeah.

Bruce Devlin 28:17

Well, Mike, aside from her great playing career and television career, she she received a lot of wonderful awards. Uh, 1998, the William and Mousey Powell Award for the LPGA, the Patty Berg Award in 1999, the Bob Jones Award in 2002, and the Coleman Award for the LPGA in 2007, and to cap it all off in 2010, the old Tom Morris Award. What a that's a lot of awards, miss.

Judy Rankin 28:51

It is, and and uh, and I I treasure each one, but let me tell you, trophy-wise, the coolest thing is the old Tom Morris Award. It is it's this bronze of of the Swoken Burn and the Bridge and Old Tom, and it is it's just it's a it's a beautiful um little trophy award. Um, but you know, for all the times that I beat myself up playing at a US Open, that I should get the Bob Jones Award kind of tickled me. It makes me laugh. Um I and you know, uh another thing that television allowed me to do, which I really appreciate, is anything you did wrong as a player, you know, if you were mad one day and you didn't talk to somebody or this or that, in TV, you have a chance to make it all right. And in TV, you had a chance to talk to every single person who wanted to have a word. And um, I really had I really tried to do that right.

Mike Gonzalez 29:50

So, Bruce, uh while I recognize that being a member of the LPGA Hall of Fame and the World Golf Hall of Fame is a big deal. As a St. Louis Cardinal fan, I think the coolest thing is the the fact that she's got a star on the St. Louis Walk of Fame.

Judy Rankin 30:06

Uh-huh.

Mike Gonzalez 30:07

Yeah, how about that, huh?

Judy Rankin 30:08

Yeah, that that that's that that was a a a really wonderful thing. And um, you know, one of my claims to fame with all the Cardinal fans is I played golf three times with Stan Musial, first time when I was 12. And uh bad. What a nice man. Yeah, and he came to watch me once when I I I think I hope I'm right, that years and years ago, spring training used to be in St. Pete.

Bruce Devlin 30:35

Yep.

Judy Rankin 30:36

Um, and he came and watched me play a few holes one time in St. Pete. So uh that was kind of a neat thing.

Mike Gonzalez 30:44

Cardinal royalty right there. Well, Bruce, uh, we always like to sort of finish these talks up with a few uh few questions for our guests.

Bruce Devlin 30:54

We do. We can't let you get away without three questions, Judy. I'm gonna take the first one, the first one. If we took you back to the start of your career and gave you the knowledge that you have today, what would you have done differently?

Judy Rankin 31:18

I would I I can tell you what I would have done differently. I would have loved playing more. And I would have made I would have made my career in golf more of a uh a happier experience instead of so much of a work and up and down experience. And um I guess I would say it looks to me like some of the sports psychologists and those people today are helping players to do that more and more. Um because uh I come from a generation where so many players, and still a few do today, equate everything in their life with how they played. And um I would I would I would treasure it a little more instead of um beat myself up about it so much.

Mike Gonzalez 32:14

So we're gonna give you one career mulligan. Oh boy one do one do over. Where do you take it?

Bruce Devlin 32:21

Where do I take it?

Judy Rankin 32:26

Oh I guess I guess I would have won a US Open because I was one of those players also in my generation who lived and died with that putt on the putting green to win the US Open. And then I used to think, well, I'd probably get so nervous if I had the putt to win the US Open, I'd probably, you know, faint or something. So I don't know. But yeah, I would have um that would that would be a treasure.

Mike Gonzalez 32:52

Would that be that wedge shot on 16 in 1976?

Judy Rankin 32:55

You know, I don't know. You can never control necessarily what the other person does, but uh I I'd probably more preferred to win by three.

Bruce Devlin 33:05

There you go. So okay, Judy, last one. How would you like to be remembered?

Judy Rankin 33:15

Um I'd like to be remembered as a decent person who really um liked people, liked my fellow man, um and um made an attempt to do the right thing, and I lived I lived in a world um different than so many people where you have a lot of chances to do the right thing, and you have a lot of chances um to do the right thing and you're living a very good life. So I I give a lot of I I put a lot of that on the fact that I got involved with golf and that I've I've you know been in nice positions so many times in my life. And um through golf I've been I've seen a lot of the world and I've made friends in so many places of the world, and I think my life would have been very, very different without golf.

Mike Gonzalez 34:20

That's a great place to leave it, Bruce. It's been an absolute delight.

Bruce Devlin 34:25

Judy, thanks uh for being with us today. Uh, we we've been looking forward to this, and uh we're sorry, we're sorry we've sort of burdened you with all of these interviews after just retiring, but it was indeed a pleasure having you with us today. Thanks.

Judy Rankin 34:39

No, I thank you both very much, and um uh I didn't say much about it, but you know, I have a I have a grown son now with three grandchildren, son and daughter-in-law, and um uh having that son who's quite a decent man, um he got raised a lot in the golf world too, so and and he's okay. Yeah, the kids are gonna be okay.

Bruce Devlin 35:08

There you go.

Mike Gonzalez 35:09

Well, thanks so much for spending some time with us, Jimmy. We really appreciate it. Thank you for listening to another episode of For the Good of the Game. And please, wherever you listen to your podcast on Apple and Spotify, if you like what you hear, please subscribe, spread the word, and tell your friends until we tee it up again for the good of the game. So long, everybody.

Intro Music 35:37

It went smack down the fairway. Just offline.