Kathy Cornelius - Part 3 (The Later Years)

Intro Music 0:07

Straight down the middle. It went straight down the middle. Then it started to be able to do that.

Mike Gonzalez 0:16

So we you go into the next year, and uh we're talking about now uh I don't know if it was an official event, but uh uh you tied for first with Betsy Rawls in the 1962 Babe Saharius Open at Beaumont Country Club.

Kathy Cornelius 0:33

That was a uh rain-shortened event, if I remember correctly. Uh in fact, I'm not sure that we ever really completed it, but uh I guess there had to be a winner.

Mike Gonzalez 0:48

Yeah. Yeah, I think uh I think you're probably right in in uh how you're recalling that. Uh uh there were three others that finished with the same score as you and Betsy, so there must have been a tiebreaker they used somehow. Uh Betty Jamison, Ruth Jeston, and Sandra Haney all uh all tied as well. But at the end, uh in the end, you prevailed. Um I want to ask you a question because uh um uh somewhere back in this time, uh your daughter Karen and her friend must have got into some other shenanigans. I don't remember the exact details, but uh I believe at one point Karen found herself with a pocket knife and was playing near the first tee, playing mumbledy peg with Mary Mills and almost cost her to Mr. Tea Time. You remember anything about that?

Kathy Cornelius 1:39

I heard about it later.

Mike Gonzalez 1:44

At the dinner table. She must have been pretty relaxed almost uh Mr. Tea Time, huh?

SPEAKER_04 2:01

Yeah.

Kathy Cornelius 2:02

She was pretty nonchalant on the surface, at least.

Mike Gonzalez 2:06

I don't know what was going on in the back of her mind, but uh I saw in a in a uh history book of the of the early tour uh in talking about these times, uh, they mentioned some names, and I think it was uh uh probably up to about 1965 now. We'll come back to that, but uh just talking about some of your other friends on tour and people that uh you might have regularly dined with, and some of the names that came up were Barbara Romack, Joanne Prentice, Shirley Englehorn, Merle Breer, Susie Maxwell, Beth Stone, and Louise Suggs. Those names all must be very familiar to you.

Kathy Cornelius 2:44

Yes, they are. Um Barbara Romack uh was in that group of 17-year-olds uh when I first uh played in the junior at uh Hamburg, New York.

SPEAKER_04 3:03

Ah, okay.

Kathy Cornelius 3:06

And uh for some reason uh California kid kids seem to uh seem to have the uh highest uh regard for uh for people regarded them in a class by themselves as players. So she she was one of the golden girls from California.

SPEAKER_04 3:33

Yeah.

Kathy Cornelius 3:34

When she came to Florida, she stayed with my folks um a couple of times in Lake Worth, and uh we uh seemed to play Jim Rummy a lot when we were that age.

Mike Gonzalez 3:50

Probably when you're on tour, Bruce, you you probably knew this too, I guess. When when you're on tour, you find yourself with with times to kill, don't you?

Bruce Devlin 3:59

Oh, you sure do. You know, and uh Kathy, after winning uh that Babe Zaharius Open, there was a big gap in your uh victory career on the PGA tour, and you also added another person to your family. I believe uh you had a daughter between 62 and 72, Kay, she came along. So that was a that was a rough time there, was it? Just you know, tr still trying to improve and struggling with your golf swing, or what was it?

Kathy Cornelius 4:32

Well, we uh were nomadic um in a sense of the word. Uh Bill, my husband, always uh looked on the uh current job where he happened to be, whether it was uh uh professional at a golf course, public golf course maybe, or uh private club. We had been at uh uh one of the uh old traditional golf courses in Southern California where the uh Crosby tournament uh originated in back in gosh, uh might might have been in the late 30s. I don't have any uh recollection of that particularly, but uh anyway, that Bill was the uh club professional there at uh somebody's gonna have to refresh my memory on where the uh Crosby Tournament originated.

Mike Gonzalez 5:44

Uh yeah, and I know at one point Bill was the pro, wasn't he? At was it Rancho Santa Fe?

Kathy Cornelius 5:49

Rancho Santa Fe was it.

Mike Gonzalez 5:51

Okay.

Kathy Cornelius 5:52

And I thought that would probably be the uh last place that he would want to leave. Uh no matter what, because when I first saw that golf course and saw the area, I thought this was where I'd like to live the rest of my life. Well, um it lasted, I think, three years. We were packed up and uh going elsewhere. Uh still just had a little bit of a difficult time uh uh not just managing the operation of the golf shop and things of that nature, but uh knowing who to uh uh be friends with and uh uh who to be more service-minded toward in uh politics of running a country club.

SPEAKER_02 7:00

A lot of politics.

Kathy Cornelius 7:02

Yes, considerable amount. And he was not not the most uh politically uh savvy person in the uh golf industry.

Mike Gonzalez 7:16

You had some uh some golf-related businesses, didn't you? Golf golf courses or driving ranges uh back during this time?

Kathy Cornelius 7:24

Uh over the course of Bill's career, uh we started a golf course, not a golf course, but a uh driving range on the west side of Phoenix. In uh I can't remember exactly what year it was, but uh a young friend of ours from Florida decided to come west, and uh he and Bill were partners in this uh what we called uh Cochina Fairways, which was uh uh tribute to uh uh local lore. And uh the golf course uh the golf driving range is still in existence um now.

SPEAKER_02 8:26

Okay.

Kathy Cornelius 8:27

Without uh any involvement from us, we uh sold out when it became uh um reasonable to do that.

Mike Gonzalez 8:39

Yeah. Well, Bruce, to your question about uh from 1962 and that win at the Babe Saharis in 1972, which we'll talk about that next win, that 10-year intervening period. Uh your question is what happened? And as you know, the answer we get from a lot of these players is well, life happened.

Bruce Devlin 8:57

Yeah, lots of other things happening.

Mike Gonzalez 9:02

Um the world the world doesn't stop, does it? All these other things kind of happen. Yeah.

Kathy Cornelius 9:08

No, it keeps uh ongoing. Uh uh it seemed like we were always uh packing and moving.

SPEAKER_04 9:17

Yeah.

Kathy Cornelius 9:18

But uh eventually we determined that uh the West was where we wanted to be.

Mike Gonzalez 9:26

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you got in into the winner's circle again, uh, didn't she, in 1972, Bruce?

Bruce Devlin 9:32

Yeah, at the Bluegrass Invitational at uh Hunting Creek uh Country Club in Kentucky, and you beat uh a lady that we've interviewed before, Gloria Earrett. You won on the first playoff hole beating Gloria.

Kathy Cornelius 9:47

Well, it was just uh a matter, I guess, of uh staying in the fairway. And uh I don't remember uh much about it except uh it was quick and uh I was pretty uh excited to be uh in a competitive situation in Kentucky because I'd spent so much time there with time there.

Bruce Devlin 10:21

Yeah.

Kathy Cornelius 10:22

A very uh young child at my grandfather's uh place, but that was at the other extreme uh uh end of the state of Kentucky. We were uh playing up in uh Louisville, I guess, and the Governor and I had spent most of my Kentucky time in Middlesbrough and very southeastern uh part of Kentucky. But uh I was happy to have success there because I had had friends with uh the uh Hillirock and Bradsby Company makers of baseball bats and golf clubs.

Bruce Devlin 11:11

Exactly. I made some good golf clubs as well. Yes, they were PowerBuilt.

Mike Gonzalez 11:16

Power built clubs, right?

Kathy Cornelius 11:18

Yes.

Mike Gonzalez 11:21

Were they branded Power Built back in that day, those early days? I don't remember what brand names they used in the golf division, but uh Yeah, well it became PowerBuilt eventually, and guys like Fuzzy Zeller and and uh others who were quite successful with that brand. You know, you probably should have never been in a playoff in that event, though, Kathy, but Gloria shot a six under 66 in her final round to to sneak up on Yintaya.

Kathy Cornelius 11:52

Well, uh she could play. There wasn't any question about that. And she uh had uh local connections there with uh Hilbert and Bradsley.

Mike Gonzalez 12:05

Yeah. You know, I I kind of I kind of joked uh a little bit earlier on about how you must have liked water uh when you look back over your career and you look back over your wins. Uh and I just noted that uh your first win at St. Petersburg, of course, that golf course was located just off Tampa Bay. Uh I want to skip one and go to the U.S. Open, which was right off of Lake Superior in Duluth. Uh then you win up in Illinois, uh just south of Beloit, and that golf course was just uh just off the Rock River. Uh you went and won the Tippah Canoe, of course, that was on the Tippacanoe River. And then you win the Babe Zaharias, which is on the Natchez River, and then you win this bluegrass tournament, which was just off the Ohio River. So there was something about water uh and those golf courses that you must have liked.

Kathy Cornelius 12:56

It uh was the saltwater, though, where I grew in Massachusetts. That was the saltwater area.

Mike Gonzalez 13:08

Yeah, well, you mentioned you liked water, and you certainly must have, and uh, and we'll finish it up in terms of tour wins the following year. Uh, and boy, this was a big one, Bruce, because uh it had a it had a few coins attached to it.

Bruce Devlin 13:23

That's right. Not only that, but uh she got away from the river too. Yeah, she ended up going she ended up going to the desert in 1973 won the won the Seely Fabriger Classic at the Desert In Country Club. And uh again, a playoff and beat Judy Rankin.

Kathy Cornelius 13:44

Uh who was a very good friend because uh our youngsters were uh friendly uh competitors, I guess we might say, because they were competing in uh which one of them could be the uh earliest on the uh uh toy uh uh I can't remember what they call those little um riding toys for kids.

SPEAKER_02 14:25

Oh the big wheel. Oh the big wheels.

Bruce Devlin 14:29

Oh the big wheels, yeah. So tell us a bit about the playoff, Kathy. Uh I you know, uh part five, the f playoff halter, tell us how it all finished.

Kathy Cornelius 14:43

Well, uh it all finished on the putting green. Um I two putted and Judy three putted, uh I guess was w where it went down, but uh I was so sure that we were going to be uh continuing the playoffs that I uh was just watching uh to see uh what the uh next hole was gonna how the next hole was gonna play.

SPEAKER_02 15:24

Yeah, yeah.

Kathy Cornelius 15:26

Uh Judy had a little bit of uh I guess uh thought process that uh made her a little jumpy at the time.

Bruce Devlin 15:41

Well I missed a two and a half footer, huh?

Kathy Cornelius 15:43

Yes, it was a short one. Uh yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 15:47

In fairness, back when you guys were playing, two and a half footers. Well no guarantees. Yeah, it wasn't like they were rolling at twelve and there were these perfectly manicured greens a lot of the times. No, that's true.

Kathy Cornelius 16:05

Uh sometimes our putting conditions were a little uh uh made you a little edgy, right? Yes, that's uh absolutely right.

Mike Gonzalez 16:18

Um I've had I've had them described as uh being something like uh putting on today's tease on a lot of golf courses. Does that seem like a fair characterization of uh of some greens back in that era?

Kathy Cornelius 16:33

Um I I think that is a fair characterization uh because it's absolutely true.

Mike Gonzalez 16:43

The speeds certainly weren't what they were. But there was a lot of money at stake. I mean, this was uh at the time the richest prize ever on the LPGA tour. Uh the money at stake uh was$25,000 and an automobile. And Kathy, I understand that the ahead of time the players actually voted to sort of shift around the payout mechanism for this particular event to to more or less top end the money uh for some of the top payouts. Is that is that your recollection?

Kathy Cornelius 17:18

That is my recollection because uh it came to mind uh uh as a result of that vote. Uh I voted to uh make it a little heavier on the top of the prize list. And you benefited from that. I was thinking that uh I hadn't had very much uh success maybe during that year, and I had nothing to lose, just I was somewhat inclined to be a risk taker in a lot of ways. And uh it didn't particularly uh interest me or scare me or whatever.

SPEAKER_04 18:17

Yeah. Yeah.

Kathy Cornelius 18:19

So I wasn't even uh thinking about it when we uh had the playoff.

Mike Gonzalez 18:29

Yeah. I seem to recall seeing you in a photo with five five thousand dollar bags of cash after that win.

Kathy Cornelius 18:39

Well, that was the Las Vegas tradition. I think they always did it during the uh uh PGA event there in uh Las Vegas. Uh coin bags and uh wheelbarrow.

Mike Gonzalez 18:55

Yeah. Yeah. Of course, that was uh that was at a golf course that no longer exists, the the old desert inn.

Kathy Cornelius 19:03

I have a picture of the uh hole that would have been our uh next hole to play in the playoffs.

Mike Gonzalez 19:10

Ah Luckily you didn't have to go there.

Kathy Cornelius 19:13

Yes. Although I think I'd played the hole pretty well during the week.

Mike Gonzalez 19:20

Well, that was your last um that was your last LPGA victory. How much longer did you play and what was the decision process you went through uh when you finally decided to sort of hang up uh your professional playing career?

Kathy Cornelius 19:37

Oh, I think uh maybe uh just uh enjoying being at home more than uh I always enjoyed being at home wherever home happened to be, but uh uh decided that uh with Karen in high school and Kay and uh grade school, there was uh a t a 12-year age difference in my two daughters and uh uh being interested and seeing them grow up to be uh the people we we were thinking they would be.

Bruce Devlin 20:26

Yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 20:28

I have to ask you, I I think I I counted correctly. Uh correct me if I'm wrong, I think I counted four playoff victories. Um were there any playoff losses?

Kathy Cornelius 20:42

Uh I don't remember those.

Bruce Devlin 20:48

I don't want to remember them either. That's funny.

Mike Gonzalez 20:52

Well, there's a reason I ask, uh isn't Bruce, huh?

Bruce Devlin 20:55

Yes, isn't Kathy. You you may not believe this, but you know, we've we've now uh I think we've done 60 interviews with World Golf Hall of Fame and major champion winners. Do you know what their winning percentage is in playoffs? Would you have any idea what it might be?

Kathy Cornelius 21:14

I have absolutely no idea.

Bruce Devlin 21:18

Yeah, so do you think it would be winning 60%, 50%, 40%? What would you think it might be?

Kathy Cornelius 21:27

Uh well uh since you're asking me that question, I'm sure it must be higher than normal.

Bruce Devlin 21:37

So whatever normal. Well it's very interesting because it isn't, because it's well under 50%, which is quite remarkable when you think of all of you great players that have won major championships to have a player. Not you in particular, you're a positive on that side, but but most of our great players have a Uh a not a miserable playoff loss, but certainly have lost more than they've won.

Kathy Cornelius 22:06

Well, I certainly would have lost that bet to you then because uh you'd have thought it was going to be hotter.

Bruce Devlin 22:14

Well, and and rightfully so, you would think it should be higher.

Mike Gonzalez 22:18

Yeah, I I it it calculates to 43%. And if I if we went back and calculated, you know, how many were two-person playoffs, how many were three-person playoffs, and so forth, it's almost a 50-50, just sort of a flip of a flip of a coin uh when you get right down to it.

Kathy Cornelius 22:35

It shows how dicey that playoffs.

Mike Gonzalez 22:38

Correct. It really does. It's a crapshoot. Kathy Whitworth, 8-20. Uh Ben Crenshaw, 0-8. I mean, you've just got some crazy numbers out there. But uh if if you're truly 4-0, you're gonna bring the average up.

SPEAKER_02 22:53

Yeah, that's right.

Mike Gonzalez 22:55

So tell us a little bit about life after golf, then. You've kind of wound down your career and you've you still probably got some other golf-related businesses going. Uh, just tell us a little bit about that.

Kathy Cornelius 23:06

Well, uh I can't uh really describe it except uh various challenges business-wise, and uh uh Bill uh my husband was uh not uh the ultimate businessman, but uh he wanted to stay in the golf uh industry in some way. And uh I just really uh wanted to help in any way that I could and uh we were interested in uh seeing the player that uh K might uh di develop into as she uh progressed and she always wanted to go to the golf course with us when we were going out to play uh nine holes or eighteen holes or whatever uh in the afternoons after school. And uh she d just seemed to be attracted to the game. So Yep.

Mike Gonzalez 24:38

And she's still quite active in the game, isn't she?

Kathy Cornelius 24:41

She is an excellent teacher, which uh I didn't wasn't sure that she would have the uh patience to uh to do that, but uh she uh d developed an interest, I think, because of some of the contacts she had, like uh Manuel Delatari, who was one of the uh most sought-after uh teachers.

Mike Gonzalez 25:18

Um yeah, worked with uh Carol Mann and Sherry Steinhauer and Martha Nousey, and uh at at one point later in his career, Tommy Aaron.

Kathy Cornelius 25:29

Many people who attributed their uh success to him. Yes.

Mike Gonzalez 25:35

Yeah, yeah. I also understand that uh you and Bill were big, big Phoenix Sons fans.

Kathy Cornelius 25:43

Um yes, we were uh dedicated just because uh the the uh team was brand new when we first came to Phoenix.

SPEAKER_04 25:56

Uh-huh.

Kathy Cornelius 25:56

Uh Jerry Calangelo was the owner and they uh played in uh the uh Veterans Coliseum, which became known thanks to Al McCoy, who was the broadcaster for the uh team. Uh that building became known as the Madhouse on McDowell. McDowell being on the street that fronted the uh Veterans Coliseum.

Mike Gonzalez 26:30

Yeah, and you might have some excitement coming your way with Kevin Durant.

Kathy Cornelius 26:34

That's right, and uh a little sadness connected uh also because of a couple of the uh young players who uh improved remarkably during the uh two years that the Sons were uh using them as in the starting lineup.

Mike Gonzalez 27:02

Yeah, yeah, you gotta give a little to get a little uh sometimes. But uh so Kathy, as we sort of wrap up our visit with you, there's uh a short series of questions that we always like to finish on, and I'm gonna let Bruce uh start that off.

Bruce Devlin 27:18

Okay, Kathy. So if we were to go back to when you first come on the tour, and you were to know then what you know now, what would you have done differently?

Kathy Cornelius 27:35

Um worked harder, worked harder, practiced more. I don't know. Okay. I I can't uh answer that definitively, but uh No, you just did. I'd figure out something.

Mike Gonzalez 27:55

Yeah. So we're gonna give you one career mulligan. Can you think of one shot you'd like to have a do-over in your career?

Kathy Cornelius 28:06

Um, I would uh definitely have worked on my uh putting more than I did. I was in the beginning I was much more fascinated over uh swing mechanics than I was over putting factors. And uh now I have uh putting device in my living room and I uh still working on it. Um uh doing a little uh ri research uh personally on uh how the uh left hand uh can turn or not turn affecting the uh roll of the ball.

Bruce Devlin 29:08

Oh, interesting. So Kathy, the last question. The last question we ask is how would Kathy Cornelius like to be remembered?

Kathy Cornelius 29:22

As uh person interested in the good things that uh sports can have influencing your whole life because it's fascinating what uh sports interest can do to either uh make your happiness or tear it down.

Bruce Devlin 30:05

Well you've made you've made uh two people that I know today very happy. That is Mike and myself, and we want to say what a thrill it has been to have you with us on for the good of the game. And we thank for you thank you for your time. It was really great, Kathy. Thank you.

Kathy Cornelius 30:23

It's been fun, and uh thank you for making it that way.

Mike Gonzalez 30:28

Great. I hope you enjoyed this trip down memory lane.

Kathy Cornelius 30:32

It's been an exercise.

Mike Gonzalez 30:37

Well, thank you so much for joining us.

Bruce Devlin 30:39

Yeah, enjoyed it, Kathy. Thank you very much.

Mike Gonzalez 30:42

Thank you for listening to another episode of For the Good of the Game. And please, wherever you listen to your podcast on Apple and Spotify, if you like what you hear, please subscribe, spread the word, and tell your friends until we tee it up again for the good of the game. So long, everybody.

Intro Music 31:18

My hand is as long as you're still in the state.