Lance Barrow - Part 2 (Broadcasting the Masters)

Mike Gonzalez 0:07

Straight down the middle. It went straight down the middle. Then it started to do it. So you graduated from Abilene Christian University with a communications degree. And what do you do? You toddle off to New York City.

Lance Barrow 0:26

Yep, moved up to New York City and started in our entry level program in 1982 and and um uh and kind of worked my way up to uh to be in the coordinating producer for about 20-something years for golf and when Frank Shekinian retired and and eventually NFL also.

Mike Gonzalez 0:50

Yeah. So what one of the things you did early on was uh you were able to work as the producer for the Norman Challenge.

Lance Barrow 0:59

Yeah, that was one of the first things I got to produce. Uh Barry Frank, who the legendary agent who was president of CBS Sports at one time, who ended up becoming my agent along with the Giants in the industry, uh he was with IMG TWI, and they put on this Norman challenge in Rogers, Arkansas, which is now the golf course wasn't wasn't bit wasn't ready yet. Matter of fact, some of the greens were sand greens. If you're a West Texas guy, you in some of these other places around the United States, you understand sand greens, but you know, people have never seen that on TV. They just painted them green to get them. It was called, I think it's now called Champions. It was called Champions Inn. It's the golf course that was built by the Walmart people outside of Fayetteville, Arkansas. And now it's a great golf course. They've had the NCAA Championship, men and women's there. It's uh home of the University of Arkansas's golf team, but it was just started, and so Greg Norman played Yvonne Lindell, Wayne Gretzky, and Larry Bird. He played his own ball and they played a scramble. And um it was in the middle of July. Nice and warm. You know, they talk about how hot it is everywhere now. Well, I'm telling you right now, Roger, Arkansas was hot. And it was brutally hot. And Norman, they played nine hoes on one day, and you could tell how great Greg Norman was as a golfer because he played with them. He he didn't kill them like he was, and then the second day, everything was going great, and believe it or not, in a scramble, Bird, Lindo, and Gretzky on like the 13th hoe ended up hitting their T-shots out of bounds. So Greg had to actually start really playing serious. And and I mean, I always was um I always admired Greg Norman. I always loved dealing with Greg Norman. I always loved being around Greg because he always treated everybody really nice, nicely. And you could tell how great a golfer he was because after that he really played the way he he played on the tour and how he was, you know, at one time the greatest golfer on the PJ tour and in the world. And uh it was an interesting experience uh to do that. You know, I tell the story all the time. Greg Norman wanted to wear shorts, and this was before people wore shorts playing golf on TV, and he didn't look like Greg Norman in a pair of shorts. Yvonne Lindell wore long pants, and he didn't look like Yvonne Lindell at Wilmelton or at the U.S. Open or the Australian Open or the French Open, because he looked like a giant when he played tennis, but there he was just like a guy, a skinny guy. And Wayne Gretzky, who had flown in right before they teed off, because his daughter, who's now Mary, Paulina, who's married to Dustin Johnson, was born that day. And uh he he was just a guy, he wore long pants and a shirt, and he looked like he didn't look like Wayne Gretzky. And I always said Larry Bird, no matter what he wore, looked like Larry Bird. And uh it was so hot, they didn't have a clubhouse or anything. Everybody's hung out in the tent except Larry Bird. Larry Bird spent all day long, whenever he could, hitting golf balls to get better. And you you just see how Greg, Norman, Larry Bird, Von Lindell, and Wayne Gretzky, why they were so great in their field because they took even golf very seriously. And you can see how hard they worked at it and how how great they were and what made them great athletes. So it was a it was a great experience. Yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 5:24

So uh sand greens. You don't need much water, but you need a little oil, don't you?

Lance Barrow 5:29

You need a little oil, yeah. And they they painted those those greens, those greens green. Uh there was a lot of a lot of maintenance to be done on that golf course at that time. It wasn't ready to play, but IMG and TW TWI had booked this and they went ahead and did it, and it was a great experience.

Mike Gonzalez 5:51

So this name has come up before I know Bruce knows him very well, but uh you had an opportunity uh for I think about 12 years to be associate director for the one and only Frank Cherken.

Lance Barrow 6:04

He yeah, yeah, I got to I I always joked when I and I and I mean this in all jokingness, and Bruce knew Frank well. You know, I I remember asking Chuck Will, who hired me at CBS Sports, who was one of probably Frank's best friend, uh great golfer in his own right, uh, I asked him what make what made Frank so great. And he said, not only does he know all the golfers, he knows how they walk, he knows how they swing from 100 yards backwards and forwards, he knows their mannerisms, he knows everything. And back then, our TV trucks were black and white TV monitors, and he knew he knew he knew what Bruce Dublin, how his mannerisms were, how he played, how he he went about his business. He knew all that and he knew it with everybody. So I always joke now I went out to do that, and so all my buddies are now retiring from the champions tour that I became very close to and and have retired and and got to know them because you know, you think about it, it was like the era of Fred Couples and Davis Love III and Willie Wood and Bob Tway and Scott Verplank and on and on and on and on. And um uh, you know, getting to know them and and getting and calling them dear friends. But um I always joke when I went to New York, they said, well, we have to schedule someone to do golf in the entry level program, which was lower third graphics, believe it or not, um, as a broadcast associate, and they said, We got to put somebody on golf, and I say this in all joking manner, but they, you know, well, Frank Shekinian hates everybody, at least he knows Lance. Yeah, and so then when I got promoted, they said, Well, somebody's gotta sit next to Frank, and he hates everybody, but at least he knows Lance. So it was one of the great lessons. Um, you know, I I worked with people, men that helped turn the lights on at CBS Sports, like Frank Shekinian, like Chuck Will, like Bob Stenner, who was a legendary producer for the Madden Summerall Games, even at Fox when we lost the NFL, Sandy Grossman, legendary director, Perry Smith, who did the first night baseball game on TV, Chuck Milton, men, men like that, you know, uh Bob Wessler, who helped start CNN, who was our president of CBS sports, along with Neil Pilson and Sean McManus and David Kinnan, you know, and now David Burson, who's who's a great, great president, great leader at CBS. I got to work with these guys, you know, and watch them, and then someone like I mentioned before, Joan Vitrano, or Colleen Colorboss, or people like that, that were people that would do features and things like that, that nobody knew what they were really doing. They were creating TV as they go, and they knew what they were doing. But you know, sitting next to Frank was a was a real lesson. And um I to this day I I do a lot of things that he did. You know, he made every event special. You know, he considered it a variety show. Like if John Madden, if you said the show's gonna start at one, John Madden would say, no, no, no, we're not doing a show. We're doing a football game, we're not doing I Love Lucy or Carol Burnett's show or Ed Sullivan, you know, we're not doing Dallas, we're doing a football game. But Chickinian looked at it as a as a show, as a variety show. And it was it was interesting to see that, you know, along with guys like Terry O'Neill that were great, Mike Burks, these guys were great producers that created TV as they went.

Mike Gonzalez 10:37

Well, Frank Cherkenion is certainly legendary and and famous for being a tough guy, hard-edged, perhaps even mean at times, but I'm sure there were some soft spots there with Frank Trakinion.

Lance Barrow 10:49

You know, I don't know, Mike, if I actually ever saw soft spots. Um in and I'm almost afraid to say that he yes had a soft spot because his hand, his hand might be coming from heaven, and and I know he's there because of the grace of God that that he got. Uh, but um I you know it was I I I I loved the man and he had a great influence on my life, and he had a great influence, not only professionally, but personally on my life. And uh he uh you know he would he he would give you tough love. And if you were smart enough, like the before names I mentioned uh that grew up around him and became very successful in this business, um if you listened to him and took bits and pieces of what he was trying to teach you, and he wasn't he wasn't a great teacher. He was but if you were smart enough to learn from him, and then you know, and I was you know, I became only the second person in the history of our network to ever have this job at CBS Sports being the coordinating producer of golf and being at the time only the second person in the history of TV to ever produce the masters because Frank created it back in the 50s and did every one through '96. And you know, how fortunate, how blessed, how lucky was I to be able to sit with a guy who created all this. And um, yes, he was tough and he was hard, and he never really ever said thank you to people. He just expected you to do your job, and he expected you to do more than your job. And um, but he gave you ownership, which was the biggest thing he could do for me, is give me ownership. I would go stand at his door on Tuesday morning, and he always was reading a paper, and I never quite understood this. And I would try to fold the paper like Frank would do it when I would go knock on his door, and and I never could figure it out. I still to this day have a legal pad on my desk because he would write down Bruce Devlin called, he'd put the phone number there, and then he would check it off after he made the call back or they called him back. And I, you know, today you don't need that, but I still have it in honor of Frank. And uh I'd say, Frank, here's what I'm gonna do this week to get ready for the colonial golf tournament in Fort Worth, and he'd pull the paper down and he would use those choice words like, I don't give a you know what what you're gonna do, get the you know what out of my office. And which meant you have the job, you have the responsibility, go do it. If you don't do it the correct way, I will kill you. But I'm giving you enough leeway and I trust you enough to go do it. And believe me, there was a few times I was hanging over the cliff and he would pull me back. But you know, it gave me responsibility, and it gave me what I what I worked the best at, and I think what I did as a leader in our group gave men and women the opportunity to do what they wanted to do, because there's no there's no guidebook on how to do TV. You just did it. And, you know, we have, especially in this day and age with social media, there's a lot of experts out there in the world. And um uh people have their opinions on what they like and what they don't like. Like I always say to people, we all go to dinner tonight. I might order a steak, you might order chicken, Bruce might order fish, but you know, we all think our dish is the best. Doesn't mean it's the best, but we all think it is, and that's the way I looked at my business. I produced golf and football and other sports the way I saw, the way I thought I wanted to broadcast an event on TV, and somebody else could sit in the chair and do it totally the opposite. Doesn't mean I'm the best at it, or doesn't mean they're the best at it. It's just different ways of doing things.

Mike Gonzalez 15:42

I do have a comment though about that. I think between Mr. Chickinian and Mr. Barrow, some of the greatest things that have ever happened to television broadcasts for golf has been introduced by you two guys. I mean, think think of all the uh extra things you did. You know, once you got to color, uh away from the black and white, I mean, all the stuff that they use today is quite remarkable, really. And you CBS introduced them all.

Lance Barrow 16:14

Well, we we did a lot of it. I I would always ask Frank every once in a while when I had to nerve up, I'd ask him, okay, what day did you create air again? I forget. I forget what day that was. And um, and believe me, you know, his nickname, which is now sadly has become more prevalent than it used to be. I remember asking one of my young colleagues, did he know who the Ayatollah was? And he he kind of went, yeah, it's some guy overseas somewhere. No, I go, Yeah, I don't think he's like some guy. He's like the supreme leader of a country that's right below God in their eyes. And you know, but that's what I always said to people when I speak or tell try to explain Frank Shekinian to them, I said, Frank Shekinian's nickname was the Ayatollah. Yeah, and the great thing about it, he loved that nickname. And um, and so he didn't take it as an offense that you called him the Ayatollah. He loved it, and um he uh he was always looking to advance, and you know, you think about it, we had the mini cameras come along, and then we had RF mini cameras, which to me, colored TV, the mini cameras that can go anywhere as long as they can get a signal out, HD TV, those three things, I know it wasn't exactly done this way, but in my mind, in my opinion, they were created for golf TV because they changed the look. You know, like I said, when I first started, we were on the air for an hour on Saturday because they just couldn't get the equipment back that far. And um and then two hours or an hour and a half on Sunday. You know, now you know I watched the US Open on NBC with Tommy Roy producing. They were on you could wake up at you know 6 30 in the morning and start watching golf until they went off the air. I mean, the British BBC has done it for years, yeah, and now it's guy sports over in at the open championship. But um, you know, I I produced the masters before we went back all the way and did 18 hoes because it was just the equipment wasn't there to handle that kind of uh responsibility. You know, football and basketball and baseball, they could do all that, but golf, golf can't because it's over a big area of land.

Mike Gonzalez 19:06

Yeah, uh shot tracker, super slow-mo, another couple of advances that really enhanced the experience for the viewer.

Lance Barrow 19:12

Yeah, and now the drone, you know, the first drone that we really use was at the PGA Championship at Whistling Straits uh back a few years ago. And because of liability, we had to keep it about two or three hundred feet out in Lake Michigan. We couldn't fly it over the golf course because of liability because nobody knew any really anything about it. And then first time we ever used aerial footage other than helicopter shots of the hose at Augusta was the November Masters that Dustin Johnson won. We could bring it over the golf course because there really wasn't spectators out there because of COVID. And so that was the first time people saw from above uh Augusta National, other than helicopter shots going down the hoe. And now, you know, like super slow-mo, uh shot tracker, but like cameras like super slow-mo, uh the drones, they're used in every sporting event now that you can imagine, and nobody even thinks about it because it's become like wallpaper on the wall, it's just standard equipment.

Mike Gonzalez 20:35

Right. Yeah. So uh leading up to 1997, when you get a chance to take over the big chair, um, you must have had in your mind, having observed the management style of Frank Trickinny and others that came uh, you know, during your career, and you must have had in your mind, look, when I get my chance, I'm gonna do these one, two, or three things differently. What were those things that came to mind that you were gonna just approach a little differently?

Lance Barrow 21:02

You know, I don't know if if it if I really had in my mind that I was gonna, you know, I I didn't go into it, you know, I was fortunate. I got to sit in the middle of a great director who's still doing golf out at CBS and does SEC football in Steve Milton, and to the left of me, who's now the coordinating producer of NFL, Jim Rickoff, and then to the left of him, Mark Dibbs. We all grew up around Frank, and so we all knew what he did and how he did it. I was probably the closest because I sat next to him for all these years. And, you know, I I I don't know, and that's a great question, Mike. I don't know if I ever really thought here's what we're gonna do, or we're gonna change it all up, or anything. I just I just wanted, like I always said, Frank Shekinian built the foundation. Steve Milton, Jim Rickov, Mark Dibbs, myself, along with Seller Sche, who's now the coordinating producer of golf at CBS, and many, many other people. I just wanted to build the house and make sure the house didn't fall down, if that makes sense. Frank had built the foundation. You know, granted, you know, during that time we had changes in the those years of announcers. You know, uh Pat Summerall went the Fox. Um Ken Venturi decided to retire, uh, being the longest analyst in all of sports at one time in TV. Um, you know, we we brought in Peter Costas, we brought in Peter Oosterhaus, we had David Faraday come on board, we had Landy Watkins, and then later Sir Nick Faldo come on board. So really in my in my starting out the first few years, um, you know, I was responsible for bringing in new voices that we had not had. You know, then Ian Baker Finch came along. And so we changed, which kind of goes unnoticed in our world, we changed really our whole announce crew in a matter of a two or three years, and um, and that was my responsibility along with CBS management led by Sean McManus. And and so that was one thing I will tell you, and I've never admitted this to anybody, but today I will. The first year or two when I took over for Frank, if Steve Milton and Jim Rickoff and Mark Dibbs and a many, many other people came up and hit me in the face, I'd say, okay, I deserved it. I was not I was not a very nice person, I guess. And I always consider myself, first and foremost, a nice person. My mom always had a great line that Lance loves everyone, and he thinks everybody loves him. And that's how I've gone through life. And I was not a great person because you know, I was replacing John Wooden, I was replacing Vince Lombardi, Tom Landry, I was replacing a legend in our industry, and I was trying to keep it all together, and you know, you'd have people tell you, boy, we miss Frank. And I go, Yeah, so do I. And um, but you know, we all grew into it. We were young guys, and we all grew into it, and we all decided to do it our way. And then, you know, we had a great operations uh person in Ken Agar, uh, who's now Patty Powers runs that department, and they would bring us like super slow-mo. And I remember we were at Pebble Beach many, many years ago, and Ken Agar said, we have this camera that never really has been used outside. It's mostly in warehouses for car crashes and you know shooting guns and stuff and see how it does, but it might work out here for super slow-mo, and it looked horrible. And Sean McManus said, put it on the air this weekend, and it looked horrible. And because of Steve Milton, our director, and and our videotape guys, and a few other people, and the people with the camera, they worked on it for two or three years, and now it's what it is. You know, now some of our football games or some of our major golf tournaments or basketball games or other networks might have four or five or six of those high-speed cameras, or even more. But back then we had one. And if it was overcast, it looked, it looked horrible. It was it was sunny, it looked horrible. If it was raining, it looked horrible. But, you know, those are bold, bold, you know, bold moves by Ken Agar and Sean McManus that I'm not for sure if I would have done that. I would have said, you know, let's get it better. But they were like, put it on the air. Let's go, let's get it on the air, and that was the right moves.

Mike Gonzalez 26:48

Yeah, so Bruce may not know this, but at his favorite golf club here in Buford, South Carolina, one year between the Masters and you guys come over to do the heritage, they brought the super slow-mo camera to the club to film the cannon being shot, Bruce. Oh, I didn't realize that, no. Yeah. Yeah, that was pretty cool.

Lance Barrow 27:10

Yeah, yeah. You know, those are unbelievable shots. You know, we I remember at Whistling Straits, I believe it was Darren Clark at what is that, par three, I think it's 17 there at Whistling Straits. And Darren Clark was in contention, and it was the first time we had a professional golfer shank a ball. And, you know, we had it down on the with a uh the C, you know, you never see this ever, and you wouldn't be able to even see this when you slow down video tape, but we had the super slow-mo on it, and you could see the club head like it looked like one of my shots, you know, it looked like it was coming underneath the ball, and I mean he hit it dead right. And um, it was like the one of the first times we ever saw a golfer that level ever shank a shot, or how it would look like, you know, now we get it out of the divots or we, you know, things like that. But it it was amazing. Yeah, it was amazing.

Mike Gonzalez 28:20

Was it off the hossle or off the toe?

Lance Barrow 28:22

It was off the hossle. Yeah. I mean, it was it it's hard to even describe how the face of the club went through it and stuff.

Mike Gonzalez 28:30

Yeah, yeah, that's that's funny. Well, let's talk a little bit then on the golf side about uh some of your favorite moments. Of course, uh from 97 to 2020, you served as the coordinating and lead producer of CBS Sports Golf. And uh, you know, you look back, and and I of course I always keep a list of the winners from year to year, and and uh, you know, 97, your first one would have been Tiger Woods with an all-time performance. But they're you get a long list of favorite moments, I'm sure, from the Masters.

Lance Barrow 29:01

Well, you know, my all-time favorite event ever in all the sports I got to do, and you know, I did the 97 Masters being my first one that I was producing. Um, obviously, all the Tigers Masters wins. I was in at Augusta, I was fortunate enough to be the producer um, you know, all his PJ Championship wins and a lot of his major uh PJ tour wins. I was CBS Sports was there. You know, I did Daytona 500, where Dale Earnhardt won his only 500. And now I believe Netflix or uh one of these have a documentary on Dale Earnhardt, which I watched a couple months, a couple about a month ago, brings back a lot of great memories and a lot of sad memories of that era because of Dale passing away in nail bonnet and people like that, and you know, Olympics and Super Bowls and you know, Final Fours, and and US Open tennis, and you know, back in the end of Connors and McEnroe's era, and and uh Lindo and all those guys, uh Agassi and Steffi, Steffi Graf and Chris Everett, and Martina and Navarrova and all those greats doing those. But I always said the 86 Masters, which I did not produce, was my greatest event I ever was a part of when Jack won his sixth green jacket, Jack Nicholas won his sixth green jacket, sitting next to Frank Shekinian. And my job at the time was associate director, which meant get us on the air, off the air, and all the commercials in, and also replay producer who I would do uh all the replays of shots that we didn't get. And I always tell people all the time when I speak, golf is the hardest sport to do on TV. Uh, and people look at you like, are you out of your mind? I go, yes, you think about it. There's more than one stage, nobody ever stops playing, nobody's wearing numbers on their backs, there's no boundaries, and nobody, and there's um there's no stoppage of play. There's 18 hosts. So I can't very well have Jim Nance lean over the tower, or now Seller Sche lean over the tower and tell Scotty Scheffler, hey, we're 30 seconds back from commercial, wait for us to get back, and I'll give you the high sign to go to go play. And I remember listening one time, and I would hang on everything that Frank Chekinian would talk about when he was interviewed. And somebody said to Frank, why are you guys so much better than everybody else? And I thought, well, this is like hearing it from Alexander Graham Bell on how to work the phone. He goes, We know when to go to commercial. And I went, That's it? That's the meaning of life. And when I moved over to his chair, he was right because, you know, I think about we're not that far from where I'm sitting from Colonial Country Club, who since the 50s, and we have one of their champions sitting with us today in Bruce Dublin. You know, I I said this a few months ago with Dottie Pepper speaking with her at a women's collegiate event that Colonial is the hardest, one of the hardest golf courses to do a TV show from or TV uh broadcast from, because it's an old traditional golf course. You put out, you walk five steps, and now you're on the next T. Well, you're trying to get two two-minute commercials in, and you know, no one's waiting on you. So you gotta figure out who plays quickly, who plays slowly, how far it is to walk from green to T, all that stuff goes into play. So you can't be everywhere. So my job sitting next to Frank was to do replays. So back then we didn't have 18-ho coverage. So the last group going into Sunday was Greg Norman, who led the tournament, and Nick Price, who had just shot 63 the day before. And the group in the group before them was Sevy and Tom Kite. And we come on the air and Jack just birdie the eighth hoe. And I said to Frank, Jack just birdied eight. And Frank looked at me and goes, Don't want it. So now he birties nine, and I go, Hey Frank, Jack just birdied nine. And he called me Buddha for some reason. He said, Buddha, I don't want it. And then he birdies ten and I go, Hey Frank, and we're sitting right next to each other. I said, Frank, uh, Jack just birdied 10. And he goes, Buddha, and this is go back to what I said earlier. He is saying words to me that we never studied at Abilene Christian University. And he was putting them in grammatical order, which was even unbelievable. Scary. He said, Buddha, for the last time, I told you, I don't need Jack Nicholas in this golf tournament. I thought you knew this better than this. If you don't know what drama is all about, I'm gonna send you to drama school where you will know what drama. I thought I taught you better than this. He says, for the last time, Jack Nicholas means nothing in this golf tournament. Do you understand me? Yes, Frank. Well, Jack Birdie's 11. And I tap him on the leg and I said, Hey Frank, I know Jack Nicholas means nothing in this golf tournament, but he just birdied 11. And he looked at me and he went, Cue it up, Buddha, let's get it on the air. And one of the great, great days of my career, you know, Jack ended up bogeying 12, goes on 13, Eagles 15, almost makes a hoe in one where Jim Nance, as a 26-year-old, first-time ever participant at the Masters, as Jack's walking off 16, said, make no doubt about it, the bear has come out of hibernation. And then on the next hoe, when Jack makes the long putt at 17 and the legendary Vern Lundquist call, you know, maybe yes, sir. You know, Ben Wright, the legendary call at 15 when he makes Eagle, you know, there's life in the old bear after all. And, you know, when Sebi snap hooks it into the pond there at 15, where Ben Wright has the great call about, you know, it's he's hooked it, he's snapped, hooked it, it's destined for the water, and the European contention is crumbling under the bear's attack. And then that putt, he almost makes it 18. You know, and Sumerall, you could hear him crying because Sumeraw would always tear up, and Venturi's just saying, wonderful, wonderful, as Jack and Jackie Jr. walks off the 18th green arm in arm. I mean, it's it it I've told that story a thousand times, if not more, and it gives me chill chills every time I tell it. And um and nothing's better than to tell that story in front of Jack Nicholas and just see the kick that he gets out of hearing Chickennian yelling at me and and all that sort of stuff, and he just laughs about it. And um that's the greatest event I uh I to this day ever was a part of. I always said if I ever did the Masters and Arnold Palmer came back and won, I would probably put my headset down and go find another job because nothing could be better than that. The Jack Nicholas win is right up there too, as one of the all-time and and here was one I think I said this earlier. She Kinian never said thank you. Never until after his career. And then, you know, he'd come every time I saw him, he'd kiss me on the cheek, he'd say, How's it going, Buddha? You know, and he would he would say, I don't know why you're doing XYZ, but okay, and then I would explain, he said, I still don't believe, you know, like for example, I can't believe that you let David Faraday have a beard. I go, well, his wife, Anita, loves it. You know, I don't care why you let him have a beard. You're running the show, not a not Anita. And I go, yeah, okay, Frank, yeah. I I don't believe that. You know, if Anita says she likes the beard, it all the cards are in. And um, but you know, stuff like that. But um, so I was trying to figure out how we were going off the air. And the president of CBS was sitting behind Frank, and I was telling him, but we're gonna do credits, it's gonna be this many times. If we're gonna get off, we got this much time. And our the guy sitting behind Frank said, Frank, we got to get to 60 minutes. And I always I learned from Frank the hard way. No matter what anybody's telling you, you listen to what he was gonna tell you how we were going off the air. And um so I'm counting down. If we're going off the air, it's gonna be 10 seconds. If we're running credits on there on VTA, and we got two minutes off air. And I'm six, five, four, three, two. The guy behind telling Frank, do not run credits. Chukinian stands up, row VTA, row credit, turns around, says something to the guy behind him, stands up, hits me in the shoulder, says, Take us home, Buddha, and he winked at me, and that was the closest thing to thank you I ever got in my career with Frank Shekinian, which I walked out with my chest pumped up and and all that. But you know, for him to say, take us home, Buddha, yeah, and winked at me, that was that was great.

Mike Gonzalez 39:54

And by the way, F 60 Minutes.

Lance Barrow 39:58

I didn't say that, but basically that's what he was saying.

Mike Gonzalez 40:01

Yeah, yeah, I bet he did. Thank you for listening to another episode of For the Good of the Game. And please, wherever you listen to your podcast on Apple and Spotify, if you like what you hear, please subscribe, spread the word, and tell your friends until we tee it up again for the good of the game, so on everybody.