Lanny Wadkins - Part 1 (The Early Years)

Intro Music 0:07

Straight down the middle. It went straight down the middle.

Mike Gonzalez 0:13

Then it started to just we we so Lanny, why don't we just start off by uh trying to recollect on how you and Bruce uh maybe came across each other back on tour in the early days. Do you remember?

Lanny Wadkins 0:25

Uh I do not remember specifics. Maybe uh Bruce does, but uh I uh you know I played a number of PJ tour events before I was actually on tour. I uh was fortunate enough to win the U.S. Amateur, so I played several events, and I'm sure at some point in time our our paths crossed way back in the day.

Bruce Devlin 0:42

I'm like you, Lanny. I don't remember specifically where we met, but I do remember that I knew a little bit more about you than you knew about me in those days, I'm sure of that.

Mike Gonzalez 0:55

You think we'll get into a few of those things today, Bruce?

Bruce Devlin 0:58

Uh I don't know. You know, he's uh Lanny's had an absolutely fabulous career. He's uh you'll uh obviously tell us about some of the highlights that he's had over the years, but he's uh not only is being a great player, but now he's uh he's involved in senior golf television and he's doing a great job.

Lanny Wadkins 1:17

Well, thanks. Yeah, I'm I'm very lucky. I uh you know I worked uh sat beside Jim Nance for five years uh at CBS in the the early two thousands, and uh that was a great experience. I uh I I thought I would be there longer. It was um you know it well, it was the one New York suit thing that that changed, but uh it is what it is. I I I never would have done it had I thought it was only going to be five years, because essentially it destroyed my senior tour career, if you will. Because I had no you can't do both. And then uh golf channel came along for me after a bunch of back surgeries, and I've now been doing I guess been the lead analyst and and voice on PGA Tour Champions for the last seven, eight years or so.

Mike Gonzalez 2:02

So let's go back to the very beginning. Let's just talk about uh you grew up in Virginia. So tell us a little bit about growing up in Virginia and and how you might have gotten exposed to the game of golf at some point.

Lanny Wadkins 2:11

It was very interesting. I mean, uh we were always a sports-minded family. Um I was the oldest, my brother Bobby, 18 months younger. My dad had served in World War II, and somehow when he came back from overseas, he got into playing golf. And uh he was also a truck driver. My mom taught school, so my parents were, you know, back in the day were we weren't silver spoon family by any stretch of the imagination. I grew up in a house with my parents, my grandparents, three kids, one bathroom. So it was uh, you know, modesty was out the window. It was uh pretty much, you know, what you see is what you get. And um I wanted to be with my dad and when I'm about seven years old when he was playing golf on the weekends and after being, you know, driving a truck and stuff. So I started pulling a cart for him when he I was about seven while he played public golf. And I just said this is a cool game. He got me a set of clubs. Uh they eventually joined Meadowbrook Country Club on the south side of Richmond. I think it was a brand new club, $250 to join. And Bobby and I were extremely lucky because it was a pro there that loved kids, took us under his wing named Popeye Lumpkin, way back in the day. And uh we went into the junior clinics and literally spent all our time all summer long just playing golf. And the course wasn't crowded. We could go up and play Saturday, Sunday mornings. You know, it wasn't an issue. So uh we were just kind of in the right place at the right time.

Mike Gonzalez 3:38

And so what what age were you where you you started thinking, you think, eh, maybe I might do this uh more than just casual golf.

Lanny Wadkins 3:45

Well, I picked it up. We played baseball. Bobby actually played basketball all the way through high school. I played through my sophomore year, he was captain of the high school basketball team. Um I broke 80 the first time when I was 10. I won the national Pee-wee Championship in Orlando, Florida when I was 13, and the very first round there at Rio Penar, which Bruce knows well. I I that's where I broke par for the first time. I shot 69 when I was 13 and won that tournament when I was 13 and 14. Um and that kind of got me going. And at that stage, I w I had a lot of college scholarship offers. You know, they could make offers way back in the day. And uh, you know, my parents never sniffed making 30,000 a year between them. So if Bobby and I were going to go to college, it was gonna be on some sort of athletic scholarship. Uh, we both ended up going full rides playing golf. Um I ended up going to Wake Forest and I looked at all the different schools around the country. And I just I like Coach Haddock and Wake Forest, and that's kind of how I ended up there.

Mike Gonzalez 4:45

Yeah, was that was that sort of the tipping point for you in terms of deciding on colleges? Was it the coach, was Arnold Palmer or some other alum involved?

Lanny Wadkins 4:52

No, I mean I was offered the uh it was technically the Buddy Worsham Memorial Scholarship, which uh was sponsored by Arnold. Uh it was named after his roommate, Buddy Worsham, who died in an automobile accident when they were at Wake Forest together. So uh I was on that scholarship. I was maybe the third guy behind I'm trying to think. I know Jack Lewis, who you probably know the dub, was on that scholarship ahead of me. And so it was uh but I I I I looked at three schools. I the my three schools I was looking at were University of Houston, uh University of Florida, and Wake Forest. I thought they were the best golf schools at the time.

Bruce Devlin 5:27

I think they were too. Yeah, and I love it.

Lanny Wadkins 5:29

I I love Buster Bishop at Florida. I came close to going there, but I knew I had to play golf. And I went on my visit to Florida, I went down there, went to a fraternity party. I'd never seen so many good-looking girls in my life. And I'm thinking, you know what, I'm gonna come, I'm gonna go down here to Florida, and I'm not gonna know what a golf club is gonna look like in about three months. So it may not be a good move. And my recruiting trip to the University of Houston, I was actually at the game, UCLA and Houston in the Astrodome, Al Cinder and Hayes. That was my recruiting trip to Houston. Oh boy. And when I worked with Jim Nance, who went to Houston, and yeah, he said, and you didn't go to Houston? I said, Nah, Jimmy, it just didn't work. It was a long way from home for me.

Mike Gonzalez 6:13

Remember that game like it was yesterday. Oh, yeah. Holy smokes.

Lanny Wadkins 6:17

I was at that game.

Mike Gonzalez 6:18

How do you say no to Houston after that?

Lanny Wadkins 6:20

Well, I went and I went to Wake Forest and sat in a football game in the rain. So, but it was uh it was convenient for me at the and I I really love Coach Attic and I liked the size of Wake Forest. I I went to a smaller high school, only 800 students in my high school, and the other two schools were massive, and Wake was only 3,500 students. So I I I felt like I wasn't gonna get lost in that environment.

Mike Gonzalez 6:44

Yeah, yeah. So uh probably at Wake when you really got serious uh in uh some significant amateur competition. So taking you through some of that could because you had some significant wins.

Lanny Wadkins 6:55

Probably even uh leading into that, actually, I won the Southern Amateur when I was 18 uh before my freshman year at Wake Forest. Uh so I already gotten exposed to the national level, and I'd already I played in the U.S. amateur when I was 16 at Marion, uh, where Gary Cowan beat Dean Beamman in a playoff, and I finished, I want to say, 18th at a metal play event as a 16-year-old at Marion. Uh so I got exposed pretty early on. I won, you know, Virginia State Juniors and other a lot of other junior tournaments. I played I I lost in the semifinals of the 66 USGA junior in California. The the two the losing semifinalists that year were me and Tom Kite. Kite got beat by a guy named Ray Leach, and I got beat by a guy named Gary Sanders. And Sanders, they were both first team All-American. Sanders at USC, Leach at Brigham Young, and Gary Sanders, unfortunately, died on when he was on tour and died about 26, 27 years old with cancer. But he was a he was a stud of a player.

Mike Gonzalez 7:55

Let's go back to that uh that win at uh with the Southern Amateur 1968, that was at Lost Tree Club, I believe, in long in in North Palm Beach. It was, yes. You hit your opening shot of the tournament, OB.

Lanny Wadkins 8:06

I did. I hooked it out of bounds on the first hole. And um I was playing with a couple of legends, if you I was playing with Curtis Person and Billy Joe Patton first two days, so that was kind of cool for me. And uh Billy Joe would end up being my first Walker Cup captain in 1969. So it was uh it was heady stuff, but I played really well all week and and sh edged out a one-shot win over, I think, a guy named David Schuster back in the day. So and that was a good start because that win, along with the way I played when I first got to Wake Forest, enabled me to make the 69 Walker Cup team. And at that point in time, you have to understand that the entire Walker Cup team was invited to the Masters. So that put me in the Masters in the spring of my sophomore year. So I played my first Masters as a 20-year-old. Tom Watson and I stayed in the Crow's Nest together. Yeah. That some bitch screamed bloody murder in his sleep all night long every night. I said, Watson, I don't know what you boys are doing at Stanford, but we haven't discovered it at Wake Farrish. So but uh um I played my very first round at the Masters with Jackie Burke, and I played the second round that year at the Masters with Gene Sarazen. So I played in the Masters with Gene Sarazen. How cool is that? And I had enough sense as a 20-year-old that when I got to 15, I mean, if it was today, I'd have it on YouTube somewhere. Sure. I said, Mr. Sarazen, would you honor me by walking across your bridge with me? Which I thought that was really cool when we did that.

Mike Gonzalez 9:39

Yeah, that's pretty cool. Uh go back, Southern Amateur. Uh, you won it again in 1970, I think. And and uh at least from what I read, uh uh the weather wasn't too great. Four days of steady rain.

Lanny Wadkins 9:51

Well, it was rain. It was New Orleans in July. What do you expect? I mean, it was hot, humid, and it was it was it was it was what it was. It was at Lakewood, whereas Bruce knows we played the New Orleans Open forever, and uh I played very well. It was it was a good stretch for me. I came off two weeks earlier, I won the Western Amateur in Wichita, uh, beat Tom Kite in the semis, and then the next week I lost my first round match at the Transmiss, and I would I'd flown out. That was that was probably my best play that summer. I'd won the Virginia State Amateur before I went out for those tournaments. I beat my brother in the finals. Actually, beat Curtis Strange in the semis and my brother in the finals. And then I go out to Wichita and win the Western. And I I Jim Simons, who was a college teammate of mine at the time, had a Volkswagen Beatle, and he met me, and we traveled together for three weeks from Wichita down to Oklahoma City, Oklahoma City Golf and Country Club, where I he actually beat me in the first round. And then we traveled from there to New Orleans in that Volkswagen, and I won the Southern Amber that year, I think, by eight shots over Kite and Mahaffey.

Mike Gonzalez 11:01

I was gonna say you just eked out the victory, but it was by eight shots. You were the medalist that uh that event as well. Yeah, yeah. And you mentioned Jim Simons. Uh uh wasn't he in the hunt in 71 at Marion when he was.

Lanny Wadkins 11:13

Uh he was leading, he was leading going to the final round and paired in the last group with Lee Trevino. Yeah. Uh he ended up finishing fifth. Jimmy and I were close friends, uh, room together part of that week. I actually picked him up. I finished 13th in that U.S. Open as the U.S. Amateur champion. And the and actually when I won the U.S. Amateur, Simons finished third. And we had room together that week. So we were good buddies from Wake Forest. And uh uh it was a big week for Jim at the he was so nervous uh when I picked him up to go the last round at Marion. I said, Jimmy has a nice look, that shirt is a mock turtle. I said, but you got it on backwards, bud. He was a little nervous, but uh he had had he birdied 18, he hung in there all day, he doubled the last toll, but had he birdied 18, he would have been in the playoff with Nicholas and Dravino the next day. Pretty heady stuff for a guy that's 20 years old and amateur at Wake Forest. But he literally had the lead one of the final round.

Mike Gonzalez 12:11

Yeah, uh back to the 69 uh Walker Cup, that was at Milwaukee Country Club?

Lanny Wadkins 12:15

Yes, it was Milwaukee Country Club, yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 12:18

Uh I spent a couple years uh living there and and uh and uh Manuel Manuel De La Torre was the pro there.

Lanny Wadkins 12:24

Yes, he was nice man, yes. Legendary.

Mike Gonzalez 12:26

Just passed, I think, a couple of years ago, but he was a I I didn't know if he was still if he was there then.

Lanny Wadkins 12:31

Yes, he was. Yep. Quite a legend. Yes, he was. Great golf course. I I I thought it was a very hard golf course at the time and um good teammates. I was on the team with Alan Miller, Vinny Giles, Steve Melnick. Uh Bruce Fleischer was on that team. Uh I played with Dick Sidderoff as my partner in you know a couple days, so it was it was a lot of good experiences.

Mike Gonzalez 12:52

And and then 71 at the old course, you had a chance to play a match against Sir Michael Bonalek.

Lanny Wadkins 12:57

I did. Uh we um we were having a decent Walker Cup. We had a loaded team. Thought we were gonna win. We had I I want to say it the end result was about four U.S. amateur champions on that team from Bill Campbell and myself and Vinny Giles and uh seemed like it was somebody else, Steve Melnik. So that you know, those were all on that team. It was uh uh but I had I was first off the last afternoon, and we needed to win three matches for us to win the Walker Cup. And I'm playing Ben Alec and I I win my first four holes and actually beat Ben Alec three and one. Tom Kite won the only other match, he won the final match, and and we lost uh the Walker Cup that year at St. Andrews.

Mike Gonzalez 13:40

Which was no one would have predicted that.

Lanny Wadkins 13:42

No, no, no. Seemed like that. No, it was it was uh Simons was on that team, he lost to Roddy Carr, made Roddy made a big putt at 18. I mean, it was um a lot of guys that uh they had some had some very, very good players and they played very well.

Mike Gonzalez 13:56

Yeah, you participated in the Eisenhower uh trophy?

Lanny Wadkins 13:59

I did. Went to went to Madrid, Spain. It was the team was Vinnie Giles and Alan Miller and Tom Kite and myself. Uh 1970. That was a very cool trip. Gus Benedict was uh an old president of the USGA, was our captain. And all the the thing I remember most about that week was it was very hot in Madrid. And I, you know, uh, but we like to eat dinner at about 6 37 o'clock. Well, in Madrid, you don't eat dinner at 6 37 o'clock. So the only way we could do dinners at that time was room service in the captain's suite at our hotel, and that was what we did every night.

Mike Gonzalez 14:33

Yeah, 10 o'clock dinners probably wasn't gonna play for you. Not gonna get it done.

Bruce Devlin 14:37

Yeah, you played in a few Eisenhowers, didn't you? Uh yeah. I played in uh I remember playing in the very first one. Really? Wow. Yeah. And and guess who won the very first Eisenhower?

Lanny Wadkins 14:50

Was that 66 Jack Nicholas?

Bruce Devlin 14:52

No, that was in 58. Oh, wow. And the Australian team won that, and a guy by named Bruce Devlin won the individual. How about that? And then then I came over in 1960 and spent some time with Jack. We drove down to St. Louis to play in the amateur.

Lanny Wadkins 15:10

Yeah, yeah.

Bruce Devlin 15:11

And then after Beaman beat the both of us, which was a shock to me and he and Jack, I think.

Lanny Wadkins 15:17

Uh yeah, you're watching Dean Beaman play and you think he can't beat anybody, and he could beat everybody.

Bruce Devlin 15:22

I know. He was uh he he could hit a forward as close as you could hit a six iron.

Lanny Wadkins 15:26

Yeah.

Bruce Devlin 15:27

Anyhow, we we ended up going to Merion for the second uh Eisenhower Cup matches, which Jack Jack blistered everybody, and I think Beaman finished second.

Lanny Wadkins 15:35

That was one of the great uh I I remember seeing the video of that, and Nicholas was standing over a putt on the final hole of the and his hat blew off and he didn't move and he made the putt. It was pretty incredible back in the day. But yeah, my uh when I I finished third in Madrid, uh Victor Regalato, who was in my Q school, actually won the individual, and Dale Hayes, South Africa, was second. Yeah boy, there's some names from that. Yeah, how about that?

Mike Gonzalez 16:01

Yeah, yeah. So quite an amateur career. I'm sure we left a lot out.

Lanny Wadkins 16:06

Well, it was, you know, it was a great time. I mean, I look back on my life, and I think in a lot of ways, from a golfing experience, and I I love the camaraderie of the game. I was very fortunate to play on a lot of teams, and I think that was big to me, playing on eight Ryder Cups as a pro. I really enjoyed it. And I think a lot of that I enjoyed and did so well in those because of my experience playing in college and on Walker Cup teams. I always felt like if I had three years to go do over real quick, I'd go back and do my college days because it was interesting. Golf golf was just it was fun and carefree then. It didn't have the didn't worry about the money you just played because you loved it and you know, having fun with your buddies. And it was it was a great experience.

Mike Gonzalez 16:47

And had the success you had against the competition you had. I mean, you had some some really big time players playing for it.

Lanny Wadkins 16:54

It was uh a very cool era, both, you know, from amateur standpoint into my professional career, no question. I don't you know, I know they play for a lot more money today on tour, but I don't think I'd trade my era because of who and the friendships I made and who I played against and you know the the times we had. You know, we didn't, you know, we didn't have a team back then. I hear all these guys are interviewed today and they go, We. We didn't have a we. I had I had I you know I had I had I had a uh I had a mental coach every in a different one every week. He's called a bartender. But I mean that was that was the extent that was the extent of my my mental coaching. So, you know, um it you were on your own. You did your own reservations, you made your own hotel rooms, you got your own rental cars, and uh, you know, it was you and your caddy and your wife, and that was about it.

Mike Gonzalez 17:44

So yeah, no track man.

Lanny Wadkins 17:46

No, no. No, it was you know, what what does it buy you know back then our track men were our eyes, and that was judging the ball in the air. I always I got a kick out of work with my boys later on in life, and you know, they'd hit a good shot with a five and said, Dad, I gotta hit that five iron perfectly. I said, I'd go, I'll go, Travis, you've you you're never gonna get it. But if you sit there and hit five hit five irons and it goes through the same window about thirty straight times, you're gonna be closer, but you're never gonna get it. So to think you've got it, that's that's always a big misnomer in this game. My youngest son always tells me, he said, Dad, I know if I swing perfect, I'll play great. I said, Well, what are you gonna do the other 364 days? Yeah. Because you're not gonna swing perfect but about one day a year. So you better learn how to play golf.

Mike Gonzalez 18:34

But you guys got really good at at visualizing your ball.

Lanny Wadkins 18:38

No question. I mean, uh I I would look I it was always right where I expected it to be, and that that was that was key. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 18:45

Um let's just talk a little bit uh uh going into your professional career and and uh and I'll just recap a couple things uh uh turned professional uh fairly young age, yeah? Uh 21.

Lanny Wadkins 18:57

Well I did. Um I had gotten married in college and um it was a different time. I you know, I didn't come from any money, so it was a situation I needed to start making money, quite quite simply. So I um went three years at Wake Forest and what would have been my senior year at Wake, I was tenth on the money list on tour. I had a win in four seconds, so I had a a good start, and um I believed in myself. I thought I had won everything there was to win as an amateur at that point in time.

Mike Gonzalez 19:28

So you came into it uh with a lot of confidence.

Lanny Wadkins 19:31

Oh yeah. Yeah, I'd already plus I'd already finished second in the PJ tour event when I was at Wake Forest. I was runner up in the 1970 Heritage to Bob Goldby. Uh and I played the last round that week with Arnold Palmer and Bob Murphy with a double at 11 at Harbor Town, shot 68, playing with Arnold. And I'm 20 years old, 21 year 20, 21 years old. I'm thinking, okay, I got this. This was the fall after I just won the U.S. Amateur. So um I and then I went on to finish 13th in the next U.S. Open at Marion that Simons played well in. And that finish by finishing 13th in that open uh when I was still an amateur got me in the U.S. Open and the Masters if I turned pro. So my rookie year on tour, I'm in the Masters and the U.S. Open. Because it finishes back then. I mean, you gotta go.

Mike Gonzalez 20:22

I mean, I gotta go do this. Yeah, absolutely. Just uh overview of the of the record. Thirty-two professional wins, including twenty-one PGA tour victories, one senior PGA tour win, ranked in the top ten world rankings for 86 straight weeks. Uh we'll just uh maybe start focusing first on the on the PGA Tour. Laney, why don't you recount for us uh your first win? What's your memories of your first victory on PGA Tour?

Lanny Wadkins 20:48

Well, it was uh actually the fall of my I'd had a a nice year going uh in 72. I'd I'd had a bunch of good finishes, I want to say three or four second place finishes and had played well. I I was well positioned to be exempt. Top sixty on tour was exempt at that point in time, not 125. He had to finish top sixty to be exempt. So I was I'd already had that secured and uh we were in Vegas and um I was playing very well and I kind of hung tight all week and then was right there uh right near the lead. I I I tell you what I remember about that was uh George Newton was leading me by three going the last round. Now, George Newson had won the week before in Silverado, so he was about to go back to back. Well, let's just say that Newson enjoyed Las Vegas. And I want to say that the night before the last round, they may have carried him out of the casino about three different times. So he was not in prime shape to play well the la last day. You know, yeah, I gotta understand. It wasn't like we were gonna win a million dollars. First prize when I won in Vegas that week was twenty six thousand.

Bruce Devlin 21:53

Yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 21:54

And this was the Sahara Invitational.

Lanny Wadkins 21:55

Sahara Invitational, yes. Um really, you know. Cool little course we played, and I you know, so um and you won by one over Palmer. I won by one over Arnold Palmer.

Mike Gonzalez 22:06

Arnold Palmer.

Lanny Wadkins 22:07

I went to the last hole and par five, and I had a good drive, got it up, and I had about a six-footer for Bertie, and right when I'm getting ready to go over the putt, Arnold hits into me, hits his second shot, and it rolls up onto a false front of the green, rolls back, people start going nuts because Arnold's hit driver off the fairway trying to get there in two. And I remember I was playing with Art Wall, who was the ultimate gentleman, and Art was he was livid. He said he did that on purpose. Make that putt. Art was steaming. That's interesting. That knowing that Arnold would, he said, Arnold is he was trying to rattle you.

Mike Gonzalez 22:43

And do you believe he did?

Lanny Wadkins 22:44

Uh, probably. I know. I played a lot of golf with Arnold later on. I'm I I'm I I have no doubt in my mind that he probably did that on purpose. I think if he could get there, he'd get it on the green, you know. Um I missed the putt. Arnold took three from the front edge. So the golf guys golf god spoke.

Bruce Devlin 23:01

I remember that. You know very, very well.

Lanny Wadkins 23:04

So yeah, and um but I won by one over Arnold, but he took three from the front edge. So it was uh he was not happy. He wasn't he wasn't happy for two reasons. Number one, I was supposed to still be in school in his scholarship, and number two, I cost him a win.

Mike Gonzalez 23:18

So but uh and that same year you were PJ Rookie of the Year.

Lanny Wadkins 23:22

Yes, yeah, yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 23:23

Uh so you had how many, how many wins or how many fits?

Lanny Wadkins 23:26

Just the one. I had the one win, but I think I had lost I want to say it was four seconds. Came close a number of times. I think I I think I and I lost by a shot, I think, when you and David played off at Cleveland. Cleveland, yeah. Yeah.

Bruce Devlin 23:38

Yeah, we actually I was right there in the middle of that one. Actually, David and I talked about that yesterday. I think I lost I think I missed your playoff by a shot. When a lot of people thought that I win in the can for him. Which uh no way.

Lanny Wadkins 23:52

Nobody gives up a win for any friend. See that? I was I was never gonna do anything for my brother on the golf course other than watch him finish second.

Bruce Devlin 24:03

All he has to do is put a peg in the ground on T1 and let's go.

Lanny Wadkins 24:06

That's right.

Bruce Devlin 24:07

Yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 24:08

And and a lot of wins in between, but then 20 years later, you're still winning on the PGA tour.

Lanny Wadkins 24:13

Yeah, I I I did. I I was fortunate that I played really well you know throughout my career. And I I think I attribute, even though I had some injuries and stuff, a lot of it to just hard work. I I worked hard. My my teacher uh that I grew up with that you know took Bobby under his wing uh died the night before the final round of the NCAA I was leading by a shot in 1970. So I really did not work with anybody from 70 until I started working with Dick Harmon in 1985. So those 15 years, I won the PGA and the players and a bunch of other tournaments, all you know, on my own, just figuring out what was going on. Um the one thing I did have, I started working with Phil Rogers in 1981 on putting, and that made a significant difference to my putting, and also the win total picked up at that stage. I mean, I worked with Phil in 81, going into 82, then I won immediately won three times in 82, two in 83, and another three in eighty five.

Mike Gonzalez 25:12

So, what did you learn, what did you take away from that time with him that really made a difference with putting?

Lanny Wadkins 25:18

Well, it was basically set up. We changed everything the entire way I putted. Uh we I was a forward presser and took the loft off it, and he got me to move my hands back and and move the handle more and let the putter head release. Uh it worked very well for me. I came here to Preston Trail and worked very, very hard on it all winter long. So I went out playing well and won one of my the first tournaments that year in Phoenix. Uh in fact won by six shots. So you go out and do that, and all of a sudden you know. You're happy with the change. Yeah, the change is working on I won three times that year. And I made a lot I made a lot of birdies through that stretch. And in eighty-five, I won three times, and every time I won, I shot twenty under or more. Oh my. So that's that's low. That's making a lot of birdies. So I was I was not afraid to go low, and then now that I can make putts go along with the the quality of ball striking that I had when I was on, uh it worked out very well.

Mike Gonzalez 26:12

Yeah. You went through a rough patch 75-76. That kind of the time you were hurting.

Lanny Wadkins 26:16

I had I had my gallbladder and appendix taken out in 70 December of 74. And this wasn't today they do it laparoscopically, and you're probably back on the course in a month. Well, back then they I I've got a nice little eight-inch scar down my abdomen where they cut through four muscles. So all of a sudden you can't turn, you can't do anything. I probably came back early, screwed my swing up, and not having a teacher, I got to spend a lot of long hours trying to get it back. And it took me till really 77 before I was back close.

Mike Gonzalez 26:46

Yeah, and and felt healthy and pretty normal back then. Yeah, yeah. Um, PGA player of the year in 1985. Let's go back to the players' championship uh that you won at Sawgrass in 1979. What are your recollections of that win?

Lanny Wadkins 27:00

Well, we all knew Sawgrass back then had just beat the crap out of every player that came down the pike for the two years previous coming in there. Nobody had ever broken par. And the thing that I remember was the first two days we had really no win. I think I shot 67, 68, or 68, 67, something along those lines. I had a three-shot lead after two rounds. The wind blew so hard the third day, I shot 76 and maintained a three-shot lead. That's the one thing I remember. Then the next day, I was going out to play. I ran into Tom Weisskopf. He said, He said, Young'un, it's blowing hard again. You play fast, that's going to be to your benefit. Make up your mind and hit it. And I did, and I went out and shot a really good 72 the last round. When was blowing just as hard, and I won by five. So I was the first person and only person through that time. I finished five under par and I beat Watson by five. So it was uh and I played the last two rounds with Trevino there. I remember that. And um in my mind, I handled the wind much better than he did. So for to have that thinking that way playing with somebody like that was pretty good.

Mike Gonzalez 28:13

Bruce, you probably experienced a few weather days like that.

Bruce Devlin 28:15

Uh yeah, but uh, you know, going back to the golf course he's talking about, you know, the this was at the original Sawgrass golf course. Yeah, this wasn't the TPC. I remember playing that year. Uh I played I played one round with Art Wall, and when we got to the tenth hole, we were playing into the wind, and Art Wall couldn't reach the fairway with his drive, so he had to hit it down left into the rough on the left hand side of the lake because You had to carry a lake off ten. You had to beat the hell out of it to get it over the lake.

Lanny Wadkins 28:51

So uh yeah, it was last two days I would say I carried the you know, if you add the yardage up, I probably carried the lake by a total of ten yards added for the two days. I mean it was wild. It was hair it was it was it was hairy. Yeah. I mean it was uh you know, I played some shots, uh I knew I had a good lead. I was always a scoreboard watcher, so when the lead got up there, you when you got you've got a situation like that and you've got a lead, you know nobody's gonna come get you. They can't.

Bruce Devlin 29:20

Yeah.

Lanny Wadkins 29:21

So what you've got to do is avoid the mistake. So I started hitting and uh the one thing I I I will say is I've always had good touch on long putts. So I was never afraid to play away from a flag, you know, everybody says I played at all the flags. Well, I I mean I remember coming in 16, 17 especially. I'm aiming away from the flags. 16 was a big wide par three about two-iron shot, and the great the whole location was over on the left near the water. I put it on the right side. It must have been 60, 70 feet, and I rolled it up to a foot. So, I mean, that's the kind of thing that I played around, you know, to make sure. So I I took the big numbers out of play.

Mike Gonzalez 29:59

Yeah, yeah. Looking back on all of your PGA tour wins, what are a couple of your real favorites? Uh either because of the venue or because of the history of the event or obviously the PGA at Pebble Beach stands out as number one.

Lanny Wadkins 30:11

Uh the players at Sawgrass and and Devil alluded to how hard that golf course was hard. No win, it was hard. Yeah. I mean, it you had about three or four holes out there. You had Fairway and Alligators. I mean, that was it. It was it was difficult. Really, really hard. A lot of water in play. So those stand out, those two stand out.

Mike Gonzalez 30:31

Um and we'll come back to the PGA win because that's one we want to spend on the cover.

Lanny Wadkins 30:35

But the uh the other the the highlights for me, I mean, the World Series of Golf at Akron uh coming off the PGA win to win that three-pote the last hold win by five over Irwin and Weisskoff. Um I set a tournament record there that stood for 14 years at Firestone. Proud of that one. Uh I think my wins at Riviera are what stand out to me. I love Riviera. I think it's one of the best golf courses we have ever played.

Mike Gonzalez 31:01

Um still stands up well today, though. Still stands up. Even today.

Lanny Wadkins 31:04

Tell you how well it stands up. I won in 79 and I came back in 85 and shot 20 under. And that tournament record still stands to this day. It's the longest standing tournament record on tour. 20 under at Riviera. And that was back in with wooden-headed clubs and gutta percha balls. Yeah. Well, and I had and I'm and I'm it wasn't like I had I had a two-shot league on the last day with I'm playing with uh Hal Sutton, who'd won a PGA there two years earlier, and Corey Pavin, who would win two more times at Riviera himself. So I've got essentially major championship winners that I'm playing with the last day. And I remember I had an old caddy named Griff, and Pavin made a couple of putts early, like on two and three, and I've already birdied one, and Griff looked at me and said, This guy's ready to go today. I said, Griff, he ain't beating me with Justice Butter on this golf course. I said I know how I'm hitting it. And I mean, I just I I always the thing that gets me, and I'll deviate here a second, watching today's players, they don't play with a plan, especially if they're leading a golf tournament. I'm blown away that when I hear a guy say, I'm gonna go play one shot at a time, and I'm gonna have fun, and I'm gonna smile, and I hope it works out. Well, screw that. You know, I never I I'm gonna take the bull by the horns there and say, you know, when you get a chance to win, you better give it everything you've got. Yeah. Because then those chances don't come along very often. So I always had a plan, and I did it about three or four different times because it was a tough plan. But I knew if I did it, I was gonna win if I was leading a tournament. I want to play the last round and not have a five on my card. Now think about that. That means you're gonna birdie all the par fives, you're gonna handle all the par fours, and you you know, you're not gonna make mistakes on the par threes. So I did that at Riviera. I played the last round leading by two, did not have a five on my card. It also meant that I was grinding my ass off on 17 with a seven-shot lead to make birdie at 17 to achieve my goal. Yeah. I walked to 18 with an eight-shot lead. To this day, it still ticks me off that Sutton Birdie's 18 to get within seven. You know.

Mike Gonzalez 33:23

Well, was your mentality when you got in that position stay aggressive, play smart, but still continue to make it. Yeah, well, you had to.

Lanny Wadkins 33:29

You had to stay aggressive. I mean, the one thing, and and I did that at the same thing at Phoenix in 82. I had a four-shot lead at Phoenix in 82, and I I shot 65 the last round there with a four-shot lead, one by six, did not have a five on my card. And I made a 12-footer of the last toll for Bertie, and I'm sitting there grinding, even though I've got a five-shot lead, I want to achieve the goal I've set for myself. And so that was very important. And I stayed, it kept me focused all the way through. I could have a seven-shot lead. I'm still focused on something. So I'm not, even though I'm looking at the scoreboard, I've got a goal I want to achieve. So I I put it more into those realms. But um, yeah, I liked I I just I enjoyed, I won a number of times by five shots, six shots, seven shots, four shots. I mean, a lot of it because of that, I think, because of that mentality. And the one thing I figured out, and I I I figured it out the hard way one time is that when you're aggressive and you build up a big lead, you can go conservative and maybe last three holes, play for pars, even a bogey here and there and win by two or three or whatever. But if you turn it off early and now somebody runs at you, you can't turn it back on. Once you lose that aggressive nature that you start out with, you're toast. That's all, you know, you you're not gonna get it back. There's gonna be too much uncertainty in there. So you've got to keep the pedal to the metal as long as you can and build up a big lead. I mean, I did that at the second tournament of champions I won at La Costa, I won back to back. And I had built up a five or six shot lead through about twelve the set the last day. And damn if I didn't hit a poor bunker shot and made bogey on a par five, like I think it was twelve at La Costa, and all of a sudden it was like everything started falling apart for me. I couldn't, I made about three or four bogeys in a row. I ended up winning by one. But thank God I'd been aggressive early and built that lead up to five. It gave me some some wiggle room at the end.

Mike Gonzalez 35:27

Yeah, so what do you think was going through the mind of this young Japanese player a couple of weeks ago as he's coming down uh the wire with, you know, three, four shot lead.

Lanny Wadkins 35:36

He looked like he was thinking, how quick can I get to eighteen?

Bruce Devlin 35:39

Yeah, well, he's uh he was a he's a very accomplished player, though. Yeah, you know, Matsuyama's been around a a while and uh he's there's no doubt he's the best Japanese player that we've ever seen, I think.

Lanny Wadkins 35:50

Probably so I always thought Tommy Nakajima was the was the best looking player. I mean he was he had a gorgeous golf swing, had a better golf swing, I think, than uh and Matsyama. But uh uh I yeah, I agree. I mean, he's accomplished quite a lot from his amateur days up through now. So uh it's that's that's a tough tournament to win, I can tell you. I've come close. And uh there they're there the the problem with Augusta is every single hole out there can can grab you and and you you can walk off with a double bogey in a heartbeat. I mean, that's Xander Shoffley about you know 16. 7. I mean he hit the wrong club. He should have hit seven or he should have hit a little three quarter, seven. That's the other thing I see with today's players. Sometimes they don't play the shot required. They they rip it for all they've got. We would have been playing little shot. We do we played golf. Little shot. They played pound.

Mike Gonzalez 36:43

Yeah, it's it's it's it's it's a bit like pitching these days in the major leagues. You know, it there was never a hundred percent maximum effort when you're a pitcher. Because you you're gonna blow your arm out in two or three years, right? And that's what's happening. I think back in the 60s, 70s, yeah, they were pitchers. They weren't, I mean, they they they weren't throwers, they were pitchers.

Bruce Devlin 37:01

I think I think a great example of what Lanny's talking about is uh DeChambeau went in the open. Uh some of the lines that he was taking, you know, in that rough, he all all he was doing was hitting it as far as he could possibly hit it. It didn't matter whether it was on the fairway or in the rough, because you know, he hits he's hitting eight ions out of the rough that's going 170 yards.

Mike Gonzalez 37:25

You think that's something he can sustain?

Lanny Wadkins 37:27

No.

Mike Gonzalez 37:27

I don't either body-wise, if nothing else.

Lanny Wadkins 37:30

Uh he's already had to change what he was doing body-wise. I think somebody told him all those protein shakes weren't good for some, you know, some body parts inside, so he's already dropped some weight. I I I don't think so. I What does that swing do your body and your back? Well, what hey, once it goes, good luck. Yeah. Uh I can tell you. I I mean I I actually worry about this entire generation, and I I worry about it because of the platform. We played with our feet splayed at an angle, you know, a little open back and open through so we could turn through the ball.

Mike Gonzalez 38:04

I wish we had a video for this so our listeners could see how you're gonna be able to do that. Yeah, moving the hands.

Lanny Wadkins 38:08

Today's guys play with their hand almost pigeon-toed, if you will, and the amount of torque that's putting on their low back is incredible. And at some point in time, they're all gonna have some issues hitting it as hard as they do, and with that, with this right there, and you turn, you know, yeah, it's it's gonna be interesting to see.

Mike Gonzalez 38:26

We'll come back to some of the differences in the game. I want you guys to sort of opine.

Lanny Wadkins 38:30

A lot of it's uh and a lot of that's uh equipment driven. Yeah, sure. Absolutely.

Mike Gonzalez 38:34

Yeah, let's let's uh I'd like to get both of your reflections uh uh because you played in slightly different eras, but uh I I go back to some of the what I would call the the more fun events, if you will, at least for the the spectator, the Bob Hope tournaments, the Bing Crosby tournaments, the Jackie Gleason tournaments, Sammy Davis. There were a lot of great celebrities hosting tournaments. Some of those had to be a lot of fun.

Lanny Wadkins 38:56

Oh, they were. Bob Hope was always interesting. That that that tournament was really kind of neat. The the social aspect around it, going to dinner at Bob's house was was pretty cool and you know, things like that. So um and I played with um a lot of different people. The year I won, uh I was in the celebrity field. I think I played with Johnny Mathis, Telly Savalas, uh, you know, two of the guys I played with that year. I mean, Telly Savalas had one of the first mobile phones in his cart ringing about every five minutes the entire round.

Mike Gonzalez 39:27

So I mean Kojak.

Lanny Wadkins 39:29

Yeah, and every time he answered, yeah, who loves you, baby? You know, he had the lollipop going. It was he was in full character. But um it was all good. I and I got to play as defending champion with Hope and uh Tip O'Neill and Gerald Ford, so it was kind of cool. Yeah, that's not familiar, Bruce. Devil did that.

Bruce Devlin 39:47

So yeah, it was uh it was always fun. Yeah, like Lanny said, you know, back back in those days were you know to think that somebody would invite you like Hope would invite you to his house, uh it was very neat. You know, it's yeah, sort of neat. You know, he's probably from a entertainment standpoint, he m and and his patriotism for this country. Uh I d uh you know, he's he's really an icon. Oh yeah. No doubt about it.

Lanny Wadkins 40:15

Probably one of the greatest you know Americans of all time, if not the greatest.

Mike Gonzalez 40:19

Yeah, you had some great partners uh at some of those events too, didn't you?

Bruce Devlin 40:22

I did. I I uh I had the Lenny, I'm sure Lenny knows, I had uh I had the uh the honor of having Dean Martin as my partner at the what he's now called the ATT, used to be the Crosby Klambake. Well Dean was easy to play with I played with Dean a couple.

Lanny Wadkins 40:38

He was easy to play with because he loved golf and he was a very good player. So it was he wasn't your typical celebrity to play with. He was fantastic.

Bruce Devlin 40:47

He was fun, yeah. And he was uh He was a great guy. Uh you're talking about the Bob Hope Classic. When I won the Bob Hope Classic, I got a phone call in the clubhouse after the tournament and was told that there's an airplane at the airport waiting waiting to take me in Gloria to Vegas for his opening at the casino.

Lanny Wadkins 41:08

There you go.

Bruce Devlin 41:09

So, you know, that's sort of that's a bit heady, that sort of stuff, isn't it? To think that you'd have Dean Martin send a plane for you and then you sit right in front of him when he's doing opening his show. But uh yeah, you know, I think a lot of those guys really helped the game, you know. Um I mean, I always harp back to the fact that Arnold probably was the most significant from a player's standpoint of of lifting the game of golf to where it, you know, where it's ultimately become. But those those celebrities helped a lot, too.

Lanny Wadkins 41:41

And especially Hope and Crosby, they're the ones that really went out and they love they loved the game of golf, and they went out and they they ran quality tournaments. I mean and they stayed involved, they were in for the long haul. They weren't just there. I and I was a big baseball fan, always have been in my days growing up. Uh and one one year at the Bob Hope, my opening day foresome was Glavin, Maddox, and Smoltz. How about that? I thought that was kind of cool. Yeah, getting to play with them. And and on the putting green, it was Roger Clemens and uh George Brett and all. I mean, I played with a lot of those guys over the years, so that was that was a lot of fun.

Mike Gonzalez 42:13

That's pretty cool. Yeah, you mentioned Laney being a baseball fan and and uh mentioned Greg Maddox. I'll I'll just share one you might have heard before. It's probably the most incredible baseball stat I've ever heard. So so Greg Maddox in his career, Hall of Fame pitcher for the Braves primarily, but did a little time with the Cubs, and he faced 20,421 batters in his career. And this is a guy that had pinpoint control. How many 3-0 counts do you think he had across 20,421 batters? That's a hell of a question.

Bruce Devlin 42:48

I certainly cannot answer.

Lanny Wadkins 42:50

No, I would I would think maybe more than I and I say that because of his control, a lot of batters and it and he had movement on every pitch. They were gonna foul a lot of balls off, which probably meant he threw more than a lot of people.

Mike Gonzalez 43:06

So three and oh counts, just to tell you how three and oh I'm talking about three and oh. So I'm talking about him challenging hitters and and and how often he got behind that. So 20,429 batters, he had only 310 3-0 counts. 177 of those were intentional walks. Wow. Now think about that. That's crazy. That's a picture.

Lanny Wadkins 43:29

Yeah, that is. That's a picture. All right, let's go. Well, what I want to know is which manager is calling for Greg Maddox to intentionally walk somebody.

Mike Gonzalez 43:37

That had to be a dire situation, that's for sure. Uh, why don't we move on and talk a little bit about uh your history at major championships? Which one was your favorite? Uh no, other than winning the PGA when I was gonna be able to do that.

Lanny Wadkins 43:50

I won the PGA and was and actually had my other top finishes there, but I uh uh I I liked them all. I mean, I enjoyed Augusta because it was the same. I probably had the pride. Factor of a U.S. Open was always right there because it was my country's uh national championship. Um British Open was cool, or the Open Championship was was cool to play in. The venues I love playing over there. I I always thought I would maybe get an open championship because of the my ball flight, but I I always struggled putting for some reason other a lot. I mean a lot.

Mike Gonzalez 44:24

Because of what the slower greens are.

Lanny Wadkins 44:26

Just a different type of texture, yeah, on the greens. I I don't know what it was.

Mike Gonzalez 44:30

Yeah, well, let's start with the Masters then. Uh and I'll give uh just uh an overall stat. 85 starts in the major championship, 62 cuts made. That's nearly three-quarters of the cuts made. Uh start with the Masters, 23 starts, 17 cuts made, three top fives, five top tens, twelve top twenty-fives. Uh you had some good finishes uh in the early nineties, didn't you?

Lanny Wadkins 44:50

I did. I mean, uh uh my three highest finishes were all third place. So I I I had a chance. 91 was the year that, you know, uh probably every major uh in Bruce, I'm sure, feels the same way, or term of the term as you think, you know, that's the one I could have won. Well, the 91 Masters, in my mind, was the one that, you know, I let get away. Uh missed some putts, uh, mistake here and there. Um just you know, I lost by two shots in Ian Woozm. Ian Woosnum. I was in the next last group with Olatho. Watson was in the last group with with uh Woosnum, and it was between the four of us all day long. I mean, it was right there. I mean actually Olatho bogeyed 18 playing with me to lose by a shot. And um I I had a stretch right at at thir at 13, 14, 15 that really cost me. I missed about a four foot of a birdie at thirteen, about a two and a half foot of a birdie at fourteen, and then I thought I needed to Eagle 15, and this is when they had those moguls in the middle of the fairway, and I drove it around the downslope of the mogul, and I tried to get it on the green, hit it in the water. I made par even though I hit it in the water. But uh that stretch really hurt, you know, it it hurt. I mean, I it and the little putts hurt. I mean, obviously those the ones at 13 and 14 probably resulted in what I did at 15. But uh 15 is is funny. It's it's I found as I I didn't realize it because I was a scoreboard watcher, I thought I was two back in the fairway at 15. I was actually only one back because Woosham had bogeyed 13. So had I I'm trying to hit a two-iron off this downslope mogul, and I should have, you know, had I known that I was I think I think to this day I would have taken a four wood and hit a cut up to the back edge of the green, which I could have done from that lie without any problem. But uh would have been an easier shot, but I was trying to make three.

Mike Gonzalez 46:43

And you say four wood, it was a wood. Yes. Oh, it was a wood. It was a wood back then.

Lanny Wadkins 46:50

Uh I did put a metal club in play as driver at the end of 91. That was the first time. That was my first experience uh with one I'd I had the old M eighty five drivers and the whole deal. So it was But uh I in fact I remember where it was, it was Williamsburg in ninety I think it was ninety one.

Mike Gonzalez 47:13

Uh that was the year Big Bertha came out.

Lanny Wadkins 47:15

Well, I Harry Taylor, who was had made me a founder's club, the little small head, and put a Fenwick graphite shaft in it. And I'm on the practice tee Tuesday afternoon, and I've got my M85, and I'm swinging really, really well. I'm thinking, and Harry walks up and says, Landy, I made this driver for you. I said, Harry, I'm not hitting that piece of crap. So I mean, literally, he said, No, you've got to try this. I said, Well, let me so I hit about 10 with mine, my M85, and just creased them, hit it really good. I said, Okay, let me try it. And I hit this thing all of a sudden, I hit it every bit as straight and about 10 yards longer. And I was like, Uh-oh, holy smokes. I kept sitting there hitting it. Now I'm looking at it, it's a little head, too. I could hit it off the ground. So all of a sudden, now I've got almost like having a I got an extra club I can hit further. So I said, I'll tell you what I'll do. I'll play with it in the pro-am tomorrow. He said, Okay, that's a good deal. So I and I still wasn't convinced I was gonna play with it in the tournament. I go out there in the pro-am, I shoot 65. This is back when there was pro-am money. I think I won like 1,500 for low pro. They don't have that today. And my team won the pro-am by like six shots. So I made about 3,500 in the pro-am, which was unheard of at that point in time. So I said, well, yeah, I'll play it the first round. I think 65 or 66 first round. I thought, okay, I'm gonna keep 67, 68. I ended up, I'm playing the last group the last day with Curtis Strange on his home course. I got a three-shot lead, I win by five. Maybe the best week of driving I've ever had. Amazing. First week I put it in the bag and I won by five.

Mike Gonzalez 48:54

So were you one of the first guys that No, I was one of the last ones. Oh, is that right? Yeah.

Lanny Wadkins 48:58

They'd been out a while at that point in time, but Harry Taylor had been pushing me forever to try this thing, and I'm like, I don't know. And then I used it at the Ryder Cup at Kiwa later that year.

Bruce Devlin 49:08

I'll give you a stat relative to that. Talking about Metal Woods. There was a player in 1982 that led the open after two rounds that was using a cobra head on a single step shaft. Can you name me? Me. Bruce Dublin. I was gonna say Bruce Dublin. 1982.

Lanny Wadkins 49:34

I think one of the first people ever win with a metal club was Jim Simons, if I'm not mistaken. I think I want to say he won Pebble Beach with uh a metal head club.

Mike Gonzalez 49:42

I think I think Longer was the first guy to win the masters with a metal headed uh driver. Might have been, yeah. 85 or so. At least that's the story that I think I heard on the on the telecast. Yeah.

Lanny Wadkins 49:54

Boy, what a difference today.

Mike Gonzalez 49:56

And and the kids growing up, yeah, they just couldn't be late.

Lanny Wadkins 50:00

Yeah, my boys uh my boys look at mine and go, they can we go hit that? I mean, they they got no chance. Yeah. For starters, they're twice as heavy. I mean, you have to understand we not only had that little wooden thing that looks like a doorknob on the end of the shaft, but the shaft was weighing about 132 grams. That's right. And most of the gram weights in shafts today range from 40 to 70. Yeah. So it's you know, the weight factor is unbelievable as well.

Bruce Devlin 50:27

Well, 14, uh I know the driver that I that I use for quite a long time was one that Arnold gave me, and it was uh 14 and a quarter ounces. Yes. Think about that now. And and today, uh 124, 123, yeah, you know, stiff-shaft, you know, huge head. Quite quite different.

Mike Gonzalez 50:52

Yeah. What what brand uh equipment did you use back then?

Lanny Wadkins 50:56

Uh growing up with the wood stuff. With the wood stuff. Well, uh we didn't it's interesting. See, back then you played whatever wooden club you liked. I mean, I was with Spaulding, and the club limit, which today is probably 13 or 14 with these kids today. It is. Back then it was about nine. You had to have the irons, you could have whatever, maybe you could have a wedge, a putter, and whatever woods you wanted. And I played usually old McGregor Woods. I had I did at the end have a Wood Brothers three wood, but I was playing a usually McGregor, I had a gr McGregor M35, uh, and then I had an M eighty five. The 35, one year, yeah, show you how what we did. I went to the players' championship one year and they had a classic clubs for sale. I go over in this tent and I bought an 8813 putter, Wilson putter, okay? It looked like the old arm hall-type putter. I bought for $400, and I bought an M35 driver that I really liked the look of. And I took it. I was, I think I was with, may have been with Hogan at the time. I took it, but I had a real good guy there that did great work, Leon, and he reshafted it for me. He got a shaft. And I think I want to say I put a uh uh a Hogan Apex Apex, the red band was a little bit lighter in there. The four or the five? Uh oh, it was always a five. Yeah. I I played, yeah, I played stiff. But uh anyway, I I got those two clubs. I spent a total of eight hundred dollars for those two clubs. Well, I won four times in the next calendar year with those clubs in the back. Is that right? So they paid off.

Bruce Devlin 52:32

Best 800 bucks ever spent. Good point, Lenny brings up because we're, you know, off times uh in those days we'd have somebody outside the door, outside the gate of the golf course, even that might have 20 golf clubs standing there in a you know, in a in an all-golf bag, and you know, you'd root through them and see, well, yeah, I love the look of that McGregor. You know, and most of the time people were that's what we were looking for. Oh, yeah.

Lanny Wadkins 52:57

Yeah, there were I mean, there's a number of times. I mean, you you look at Trevino won the 84 PGA with a putter that was in the lady's house, he was standing in his attic. Yeah, yeah. Uh and uh we all did stuff like that. I was talking about but talking about baseball. Let me give you one quick little story. I'm staying at a friend's house in Washington, D.C. in 1982, I think it is.

Mike Gonzalez 53:24

You mean the year the Cardinals won the World Series against the Milwaukee Brewers?

Lanny Wadkins 53:27

No, no. Well, there you go. But anyway, I'm up in in my this is the house my friend grew up at, and his dad had paid. I think my dad had some old McGregor Woods. So we're up in the attic looking around for these old McGregor Woods. And I right over in the corner of my eye, I see there's a New York Yankees batting helmet, the old skull cap. I said, Kent, my buddy, I said, What's that? He said, When I was twelve years old, I went to a Senators Yankees game, Mickey Mallon struck out and threw his helmet against the fence. I jumped the fence, grabbed it, and bolted the stadium. I said, You gotta be kidding me. I picked up the helmet in the attic. It still had Mannel taped inside it. And I was like, I was incredulous. I said, Well, Mickey is a friend of mine back at Preston Trail in Dallas. I remember. Member here, and uh and the guy that I played with when I was home probably played twice a week with back in the day, because he was my hero of all the heroes growing up, was you know, Mannel was. So I said, Let me I'll have Mickey sign. He'll do that. I said, Yeah, I'll get him to sign it and I'll get it back to you. So I bring it here to Preston Trail and I showed Mickey, and he went, Well, damn, he took, he picked it up, put it on, said still fits the Hall of Famer. I mean, and he said, I'll he said, I remember that day. We were all rooting for that kid to make it out of the stadium with that helmet. He and he in the way Mickey was, he said, I'll tell you something else about that day. He said, Tommy Trash struck out four times that day, and Tommy Trash never struck out. I mean, how about that? He just remembered that kind of stuff. Yeah. He took the I got I had a silver paint pen. He signed it to Kent. Nice catch, Mickey Mantle.

Bruce Devlin 55:05

Oh, that's great. Isn't that great? Yeah. Looking for old golf clubs. Yeah, that's great. Uh he loved to play. Mantle loved to play golf. He was a real coach. One of those guys did. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You talk about Lakewood. We talked about Lakewood earlier. Uh I played an exhibition uh with Mantle at Lakewood Country Club in New Orleans. I'm gonna ask Lanny a question. What club did you normally hit on the 17th hole at Lakewood?

Lanny Wadkins 55:35

Oh, probably three-iron, four iron, might have even been a four wood at times.

Bruce Devlin 55:43

Right. So we're playing the we're playing the exhibition then, and I can remember visually I'm standing up with I'm ready to go with a two-iron, and Mandel grabs a seven-iron out of a bag and hit it on the grid.

Lanny Wadkins 55:57

His his grip was as strong as any human being ever played, though. I mean, it was he had to turn it back.

Bruce Devlin 56:03

Turn the seven-iron into about a five-iron or four-iron.

Mike Gonzalez 56:08

Some of the old Woods. Was there anything more beautiful than like a Woods Brother driver?

Lanny Wadkins 56:13

Yeah, I never had success with the driver. The Wood Brothers, I I liked the Wood Brothers drivers. The other one I I felt like I got better hit and contact out of the old McGregor's. Now I did play a Wood Brothers three Wood for a long time that I liked a lot. But uh, and I actually at that point in time I was playing a Hogan wooden four wood, Wood Brothers Three Wood, and I was with the Hogan company and I had the McGregor driver.

Mike Gonzalez 56:40

Let's move on to the U.S. Open. Uh 20 starts, 16 cuts made, two top fives, five top tens, 11 top 25s, uh best finish, second in 1980.

Lanny Wadkins 56:51

Second at Shinnocock.

Mike Gonzalez 56:53

Is that your best chance?

Lanny Wadkins 56:54

Uh I thought I'd won. Uh actually, no, my best chance was probably the following year at uh um I had I mean I shot 65 of the last round. Um I shot the 65 of the last round twice in U.S. Opens. One of them was literally the group in front of Johnny Miller at Oakmont in 60 uh 73. 73, yeah. There were three people who broke 70 the last round. Nicholas shot 67, I shot 65, and Miller shot 63. I bogeied 18 for 65. My foot slipped on the T, hit it in the bunker, and made bogey on the 18. But I had I just I was running the tables eagle, both par fives on the front, and I mean I missed putts and shot 65 that day. So it was But then uh Shinnecock, there were nine of us tied to the lead at one point on the second nine. And I was one of the first ones finishing shooting sixty-five. I hit it over eighteen and two. I chipped down, I made a downhill left to right four-footer, and I thought when I made it I'd won a U.S. Open that I needed that. And Raymond made two birdies coming in and won by two.

Mike Gonzalez 57:54

And then you mentioned the next year that was an Olympic club, yeah.

Lanny Wadkins 57:57

Well, no, the ma must have been the year there was I'm thinking Oakland Hills and Detroit, where Andy North won.

Mike Gonzalez 58:02

Well, that was the year before, 85.

Lanny Wadkins 58:04

Well that was the one that uh I had I lost by two there and I three-putted two of the last five. I got in the wrong place, and uh the first hole of the last day, I buried it in the fairway bunker the first hole of the last day and made double. I still lost by two up there. So I mean I play I that was the year of the TC Chin double hit. And uh I mean it but I I was playing really well and I hung in there, I hit it close, I just didn't make the putts. I mean, when it comes down to when I look back on those majors, it was because I didn't make the putts I should have made at certain times, you know. Uh which is and that goes back to the one, I think, glaring mistake I made in my career is once I started working with Phil Rogers, I took what he had shown me and did it on my own. If I had it to do over, I would have been back twice a year at least working with Phil. I would have spent more time with him and kept it up to date and refined because I think that's what I was still winning a lot of tournaments, so I thought it was okay. But I it could have been even better. You know, because it it it invariably it was never the ball striking that let me down, it was the putting at some point in time. So I think had I continued to work with Phil on a regular basis, I could have, you know, corrected some of that.

Mike Gonzalez 59:24

What were some of your favorite U.S. open venues?

Lanny Wadkins 59:28

Love Marion, Shinnocock was outstanding. Uh you know, Oakland Hills was great. Pebble Beach was fantastic. I I did get to play. I was my rookie year, 72. The first two rounds of the U.S. Open at Pebble Beach. That was the year Nicholas hit s the flagstick at 17. Well, I'm playing the first two rounds with Jack Nicholas and Julius Boris. I'm a kid. And actually Jack and I were in about a three or four way tie for the lead after two days at even par. And uh I had the lead by myself through ten, I think the third day, and then I made a double somewhere and um was never seen again. But um that was the year Jack hit the flagstick at 17. And the one thing I remember that got my attention, you know, you play with these guys, you know, back then I liked to watch what the great players are doing. So I got two Hall of Famers, Julius Boris and Jack Nicholas. I drove it down the middle of eleven. They're both over in the right rough at 11 Pebble Beach. Right where you right where you don't want to be in a U.S. Open Rough, it's I mean it's it's foot and a half deep. It's unbelievable. We're looking for both balls. We find Julius' ball, and I'm thinking he can probably get it up around the left front of the green from there.

Bruce Devlin 1:00:44

Which is where he tried to do it.

Lanny Wadkins 1:00:45

Which is what he did. We found Nicholas's ball. I said, he'll be lucky to get to the fairway. He takes it up over the bunker and stops it six feet from the hole. He could do that when nobody else could do it. And that was it blew me away to see that there, see him pull that shot. I give you another story from that U.S. Open, the first two rounds. The day we were playing in the afternoon, I think it I don't know if it was the first day or second day, but we're walking up 14, the part five. This is not the kind of thing you normally see. Here comes Ben Crosby out of a house on the right. He walks right in the middle of the fairway during the U.S. Open just to say hi to Jack. I kept I was thinking to myself, I wonder how you'd feel if Jack just kind of walked on stage and he was singing White Christmas and said, Hey, I just wanted to say hi, Bing. Yeah, I mean, you know, that was always it got me. I mean, yeah, he's Ben Crosby, but we're talking right in the middle of the fairway, out of the house, fronting 14 fairway, out, just walk up and say hi and shake hands with Jack.

Mike Gonzalez 1:01:42

But Bruce, as I've heard you say many times, he may be the one guy that can process all that, turn it on, turn it off, and get on with his game, yeah?

Bruce Devlin 1:01:50

Yeah, I don't know whether Lanny agrees with me, but uh I I've made the statement that of all of the players that that I've played with over the many years. Nicholas. Nicholas, you could hit his tee shot and you could walk down the fairway. It didn't matter what you wanted to talk about, he'd talk about it. And then when he got about fifteen yards short of his ball, it was like Oh, I agree with that.

Lanny Wadkins 1:02:16

I I think that's a that that's a and I was like I I'll talk about anything, same way. But I mean get close and and then I processed it very quickly. I mean, it I yeah, I always thought this concentrating for four hours is a bunch of hooey. Oh, it is. You know, I mean who the hell can do that?

Mike Gonzalez 1:02:33

So I just learned something because I've been trying to do that my whole life and I can't.

Lanny Wadkins 1:02:37

So that's why you can't. Nobody can. Anybody that says they are, they're they're they're lying to you.

Mike Gonzalez 1:02:48

Thank you for listening to another episode of For the Good of the Game. And please, wherever you listen to your podcast on Apple and Spotify, if you like what you hear, please subscribe, spread the word, and tell your friends. Until we tee it up again for the good of the game, so long, everybody.