Larry Mize - Part 3 (The Majors and the Ryder Cup)

Mike Gonzalez 0:14

Why don't we uh if we can, let's uh let's move on to some of the other majors and get some of your reflections and and maybe talk about favorite venues and so forth. In the U.S. Open, uh uh one top five, four top twenty-fives in your 18 starts in the U.S. Open. Best finish out of Olympic club the year uh Scott Simpson won back in 1987. You finished T4. And uh, you know, you were you had a you had a crack at it, didn't you there?

Larry Mize 0:40

You know, I really did. You know, I was coming, you know, being the masters champion, coming in there, and you know, here we go, it's San Francisco, and I'm wearing a turtleneck and a wool sweater. I mean, like somebody said, the coldest winter I ever felt was a summer in San Francisco, so it was definitely different, but I I really enjoyed the golf course. I liked Olympic Club. Uh got off to play good, played with Ben Crenshaw the first two days, and we're playing well. And sure enough, we get paired together on Saturday. So played with Ben again on Saturday and we stay in contention. Got paired with Ben again on Sunday, which doesn't happen very often. Played with Ben all four days. And I'll never forget I was playing good, and I looked at the leaderboard after nine, nine holes left. I'm tied for the lead. I'm thinking, oh man, wow, could I pull off pull off another one? You know, the back nine, I don't think I played real bad, but I don't think I played, you know, may have made a bog bogey or two, and Tom Watson and Scott Simpson played really well. They, you know, I think they played the back nine underpar. So uh I ended up tying for fourth, and but it was a great week, and sure enough, you know who I tied for fourth with? Ben Crenshaw.

Mike Gonzalez 1:48

I'll be done finally.

Larry Mize 1:51

I'll never forget we're in the scoring 10 after the round, and we looked at each other and I said, Ben, I don't think I have any fingernails left. I've been scratching and clawing for everything I could get here, which is what you do in the U.S. Open. No fingernails left because, you know, it's a rough was up, you know, scores were not low as always in the U.S. Open, but it was uh my best open, and it was a lot of fun. And, you know, wish I could have pulled it off, but uh Scott Simpson and I, through him winning and me winning the Masters were thrown together, we became really good friends, and our our Christian faith really kind of put us together as well. So I was very happy for Scott to win that, win that great US Open.

Mike Gonzalez 2:27

Bruce, you've got some fond recollections of Olympic Club and some of the memories around that tournament, particularly uh one special time uh traveling out there with somebody everyone knows.

Bruce Devlin 2:37

Yeah, yeah, I got the chance, uh, which I'm sure a lot of people would have liked to have done that. I I traveled from uh from Dallas to San Francisco with Mr. Hogan and his wife Valerie, along with Gloria, my wife, and we stayed at the uh Top of the Mark Hotel together, had dinner every night, played practice rounds together every day. It was uh it was quite a week, really. And uh I the first night we had dinner, I said to Mr. Hogan, uh, you know, I've I've never really got the full details about what happened, you know, after you left El Paso on your way back to Fort Worth when you had that accident. And it took him uh Monday night's dinner and Tuesday night's dinner to get us to Merrian when he won the open again. So it was uh it was it was pretty interesting couple of evenings listening to the man talk about how you know how he threw himself over in front of his wife when the bus was about to hit yeah, it was just uh quite a quite a remarkable couple of evenings.

Larry Mize 3:42

Wow, that that that's amazing. I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall there. That was yeah, incredible. I I remember I uh I I wish I read more, but I read the book Miracle of Marion, which was a good book about uh that, and I really enjoyed reading that, learned a few things too about how the rules have changed, but it was a great book. But I I can't imagine that was a fun time for you. That's awesome.

Bruce Devlin 4:03

Yeah, it was a great time.

Mike Gonzalez 4:05

I think Bruce first connected with Mr. Hogan back in 1962 at his first masters.

Bruce Devlin 4:11

I did, and uh you you mentioned something about the first time you played at Augusta. Uh it was hard to put the ball on the T. Imagine uh a young boy from Australia coming over and getting to play his first practice round at Augusta with Mr. Hogan. That was you talk about nervous. I can still feel the nerves today, you know, 60 some odd years later. It's amazing.

Larry Mize 4:42

Wow, that that would be nerve-wracking. You're right.

Mike Gonzalez 4:45

Yeah, what a special memory that is. And uh let's talk about uh let's talk about the open championship. Uh you got over 12 different times. Of course, back you know, back in these days, uh a little tougher deal than than than the more modern players have, I think. Because many players had to give consideration to was it official money or not. It took a while to make it official money. Yeah, it was a very expensive trip. Uh back even in the 60s, it kept guys out of the PGA because sometimes they played that tournament back to back with the the Open Championship, or as they called it back then, the British Open. Tell us a little bit about your experience going over and playing, uh, some of your favorite venues and so forth.

Larry Mize 5:30

Well, you know, I first went over in '84. I was not exempt, but I, you know, I love golf and I love the history of it. So my wife, Bonnie, and I, we flew over and I played in the Lawrence Batley tournament at the Belfry the week before, and I got in that tournament. So if you could play well in that tournament, you could earn your way into the British. Well, I didn't play well, I missed the cut. So then we went up to uh St. Andrews. The British Open was at St. Andrews, and so I had to do the qualifying. It was a 36-hole qualifier over two days, and I remember three putting the last hole, and I'm thinking, oh, I've just blown it and not going to make it. And so I had to sit around and wait and wait and wait, and sure enough, I did get in, and we'd rented this flat in uh in downtown St. Andrews, and I'll never forget some guys followed me that had a garage over there in the qualifier, and they were nice enough to lend me the they lent me a car because I didn't have a car. We were just uh I can't remember how we were getting around. Maybe I had a rental car, but they lent me a car for the week, and uh, I guess they ended up putting a putting a little bet on me, I said, uh, which was turned out to be a mistake, but but they were very nice. The people over there are so friendly. I just love the people in uh in Scotland, they're great. And I played in the tournament, and back then there was a two-day cut of 80 and ties, and then you had a three-day cut of 60 and ties. So I made the two-day cut, and sure enough, I got in a pot bunker on number 12, I can remember, after the Love in the Par three, and I tried to hit it out of the pot bunker, and that was a mistake. It hit the it hit the side and came right back and hit me in the stomach, and two shot penalty, and I think I shot 76 and I missed the three-day cut, and so I had to watch the final day on uh on TV, which was disappointing. But that was my start to the British, and I I love it over there. I wish I could have played played better. I never I think I finished 11th or something was my best finish over there. Um, so that was uh I wish I'd have played better, but I I still enjoyed going. I didn't go the next year at Royal St. George's because I heard that was the weak link in the in the rotation. But I went back and played Royal St. George's in '93 or four, one of those years, and I really liked it. I don't think it's a weak link. I think it's a great golf course, but every one of them I liked over there. I mean, which one's my favorite? You know, probably be either Turnbury or Muirfield. I really love those two venues. But they're all good. And I the people are great. You know, it's it's so much fun to play in front of that crowd because you hit a five-iron 30 feet in the windy conditions, and they give you a they give you a nice applause because they know what a good shot it is.

Mike Gonzalez 8:08

Yeah.

Larry Mize 8:09

Sometimes you could hit it three feet, and if the group in front of you hit it one foot, they're not going to clock because they you're not as close as before. But they have great fans. I always felt like some of the best fans were at the British Open and at the Masters. I think because their knowledge of the game, they really understood it. So playing in front of those people was a lot of fun. And I I I love going over. And I've, you know, going over for some senior Britishes, and it's a uh I love the golf over there. I love playing Lynx Lynx Catal Golf.

Mike Gonzalez 8:36

Yeah, I think the senior uh British Open, if I'm not mistaken, is at Glen Eagles this year.

Larry Mize 8:42

Oh wow. I played a uh I played a Scottish Open, I think, in 1990 at Glen Eagles. Good golf course and a special special place there.

Mike Gonzalez 8:51

So let's talk about the PGA Championship. You had uh 18 tries there and uh a couple top 10s, six top 25s, and the top tens uh first back to 84. Uh that was the year you said you had your best uh open championship uh appearance. Uh oh, I'm sorry, that was 94, tied for 11. But back in 84, you went down to Shoal Creek and finished T6 the year uh Trevino sort of ran the table.

Larry Mize 9:17

Yeah, I can remember Trevino kissing his putter. I think he said he got it from some lady out of the attic or something. So uh Trevino was just such a great player and such a great uh a great ambassador for golf, I feel like. So it was special. I mean, 80 83 was my first PGA at uh Riviera in in LA, and then I can't remember how I played there, but I did. I had a good week at Shoal Creek. I liked that golf course. You know, they had the Bermuda rough up, so you had to drive the ball well, and driving the ball on the fairway was one of my strengths. So I really liked that golf course and uh and played really well. I like that golf course. I we you know played well there again. I think in 1990 I played well again when I think Wayne Grady won. Uh that uh Wayne Grady had that great championship down there. Wayne's a really great guy as well. So uh, you know, all the majors are so special, you know, they just that's why they're majors. You get to play great golf courses like a shoal creek, and uh conditions are such where it just brings out the the cream of the crop. Good players rise to the top. And I uh I really enjoy playing in the in the PGA. Wish I could have uh snuck one of those as well, but um I uh really enjoy that those at Shoal Creek, and then I played uh I enjoy playing Valhalla. I had another good, I think in '96, I had a good PGA there in Valhalla when uh Mark Brooks beat Kenny Perry in a playoff, which was an exciting tournament, a great victory for Mark Brooks, a good friend of mine.

Bruce Devlin 10:42

So a lot of people, uh Larry, also think that the players' championship is probably one of the hardest golf tournaments to win as well. And uh you came pretty close there in uh in '86.

Larry Mize 10:55

Yeah, Bruce, it is. You know, it's you know, to me, it's a it's one it's our major championship. It's a tremendous tournament. Um, I think it's arguably the best field in golf and played on a very tough golf course. And having that chance in 86, I think we talked last time I really matured a lot there because I learned a lot. I made some mistakes, and I think it helped me down the road to become a better player. And but it is a great great tournament. And you know, some people, there's a little bit of controversy with that golf course, but you've got to golf your ball around that golf course. You've really got to hit the ball well, and it's a uh tremendous tournament. You know, they talk about is it the fifth major? And my take on it is you know what, it's a great championship. Let it stand for what it is. It's the players' championship, it's not a major, but it's a tremendous tournament to win, and anybody would want to have that. I wish I wish I had that. I wish I could have snuck that one out in '86, but John Mahaffey was just too good for me.

Mike Gonzalez 11:54

Yeah. Larry, why don't we move ahead to some of the team play that you were able to participate in representing your country? The first thing we probably talk about would be Ryder Cup, where you had a chance to uh play on that team in 87. And as I like to do for our listeners, and I'd be happy to get your perspective on this as well, because this was really came at a time when the Ryder Cup was undergoing significant change. The the tide was shifting, if you will. Europe had been brought in, the European players had been brought in several years before, but but uh this was still relatively new. I think it was in '83 when Lanny Watkins uh stiffed that little wedge at the last hole at PJ National with Jack as the captain. That I think probably told everybody, hey, these Europeans uh can compete with us and and we're gonna have to play better. And then we go over to the Belfry in '85, lose uh wake up call, but uh maybe not surprising given the talent of that European team. So you come back home in 87, you're at Jack's place, Jack is the captain again, pressure's on.

Larry Mize 13:02

Well, it really is, and it was to me a tremendous thrill and honor and privilege to be on a Ryder Cup team. I mean, to me, if you're a European player or an American player, there's not really much of a higher honor or privilege you can have than to represent your country in that in that event. And it is a great event, and you know, even though we lost, it was very disappointing. I'll never forget Larry Nelson. He said, you know what, Larry, the sun's gonna come up tomorrow, it's gonna be okay. And he was right, but it was disappointing at the time. And uh, but I have nothing but great memories. The camaraderie that we have, you know, we have our we'll meet, you know, cool thing about Memorial, about you that playing there at Muirfield, you had the condos down the first fairway, and we stayed in condos, so we had a lot of common area. We'd have different rooms and a common area in the middle, and we'd get together and have to have meetings and just hang out. And it just uh it was a great week. Um, I'll never forget I played with Landy the first day we did the alternate shot, and uh, you know, Landy was a great partner, but unfortunately, you know, both of us, I think we both apologized to each other. We had Woosnum and Faldo down at the turn, and we let them back in and let them win the first uh let him win that first match, and then Jack set me down, I know, which I was very disappointed I didn't play the next that afternoon, but uh he probably did the right thing. I messed up, he needed to sit me down. But it's just there's nothing like playing for your country. I I think the the reason you see such great play is because you get so focused, uh, it's so different than anything else you're playing for your teammates, you're playing for your country, that your focus gets so good. Play is just phenomenal. And you know, Saturday came along and he paired me with Hal Sutton, and Hal and I went out and we won the last hole to tie Roosie and Faldo. So he sent us back out against Sevi and uh Jose Olatabo.

Mike Gonzalez 14:53

And dusted them.

Larry Mize 14:54

Well, again, they had not believed they'd lost yet. I think they were undefeated, they had not lost yet, and I had a great partner. I mean, Hal, he hit it in there about so close on the first hole they gave it to him. Because Hal's to me, Hal, to me, when I think of great ball strikers, Hal's. And he hit it close enough on two, they should have given it to him, but he made Birdie there. And then I think I did something good on three or something, but we you know, I'm playing well, but Hal's just playing great. So I'll never forget we we birdied 15 the par five, and they got a 20-footer and they make it because Sevi and Jose are such great players and great putters. And then Hal hits it in there close on 16. I'm out of the hole, Jose's out of the hole, Sevy's chipping for par, and I'll never forget. Um, Hal comes over to me and says, I hope he makes it for par because I'm gonna make this on top of it. He chips it in for par and Hal makes it and gives it that fist pump, you know. And just a lot of fun. So uh I hit a good shot in the 17, about 10 feet, so I got a 10-footer for Birdie, and then they hit their second shots and they conceded in the fairway. We beat them two and one, and I was so disappointed because I wanted to go make Birdie on 17. It was uh it was a lot of fun to uh to beat them. And uh then I played Sam Torrance on the last day, and uh Sam's a great player, and I won 17 to go uh one up, and gotta confess I hit a bad drive on 18, lost 18 to tie the match, and that was pretty disappointing. It cost us a half a point, and I think we lost uh 14 or 15, 13 or something. It was very close, but disappointing to do that. But it was a tremendous experience, and I'll I'll never forget it. I came close. Uh I was uh in '93, I had a good year. I was 11th on the list, and Tom Watson was captain, and he chose Lanny and Raymond, went for more experience over me. And I understood that, but I was very disappointed. I was happy we won. But that was the only Ryder Cup, but it was a great memories, and uh really it's a really great event.

Mike Gonzalez 16:59

So compare the pucker factor for us between playing in the Ryder Cup that first hole or the first hole of your first masters.

Larry Mize 17:07

You know, that's a great question. It's so hard to compare because they're so different. Um it uh the tough thing about the Ryder Cup, you you you it's not just you, you know, you've got your partner and you've got your team. So I I don't know, it's it's different. It's hard to compare them because they're just you know, you're not out there playing by yourself. And uh but they're both uh they both will cause you, they both get your attention. They both will cause it uh that heart creeps up in the throat a little bit more. And uh it's a uh but but it's it's it's something about it, it's just fun. You know, it's a fun nerves, it's an excitement, it's not a it's not a bad thing, it's really, really good.

Bruce Devlin 17:49

There's another part of your career too that we need to uh touch on too, and that's your your uh champions tour win. You had one win, right? Back in 2010 in uh Montreal. And uh as I understand it, you're still playing on the Champions Tour as well.

Larry Mize 18:10

Yeah, Bruce, I am. I you know, I never thought I'd be 63 years old and still competing on a tour. And uh it's been uh it's been great. The champions tour, what they started back in the early 80s, who would have thought it would turn into this? And I just thankful to Sam Sneed, Arnold Palmer, Bob Goldby, all those great players that got this going. And you you you you were probably involved in that. I'm sure you played out there some, didn't you?

Bruce Devlin 18:34

I did play out there some. As a matter of fact, uh the first time it was televised was 1980 at Onion Creek. It was televised by NBC. And the play-by-play guy was a guy by the name of John Brodie, who you will recall was a great uh quarterback for San Francisco. And his sidekick and color analyst was a guy by the name of Bruce Devlin. And that's when we had that six-hole playoff when they birdie, birdie, birdie, birdie, birdie, birdie. That's right. It was uh it was it was quite a start to the champions tour, really.

Larry Mize 19:12

Well, it really was, and it y'all just did a great job, and you were always a great commentator as well. So it was uh very special. And to get to do this, uh it's it's hard to believe. You know, there's nothing like being a 50-year-old rookie. I know that was a lot of fun. Getting to go out there. It's kind of like high school reunion. You get to go out there with all the guys that you played, you know, your career with, get back out there with. I remember uh I went on the driving range and Hale Irwin stuck his foot up on a on a bucket and I started shining his shoe because I'm the rookie. I got to shine the veteran shoe. Having a lot of fun with it, and it's it's been it's been a great ride. The champions tour is such a special tour, and uh it's it's wonderful. I mean, the PGA tour is great, but to get to do that at an older age is really, really special. So I'm very thankful I've gotten to do this, and uh, you know, how much longer I'll do it, I don't know, but it's it's still a lot of fun. Enjoy competing.

Mike Gonzalez 20:09

So, what kind of schedule do you anticipate uh for yourself this year?

Larry Mize 20:14

Well, um it's a good question. I'm kind of on the on the borderline to getting in. Last year I got in a fair amount of tournaments, more than I probably thought. I played about 18 or 19 tournaments. I'd like to play 12 to 15 this year. Whether I'll get in that many or not, I don't know. Um a lot of it will depend on the better I play that you know, if you top 10 it, you can get in the next week. So I need to have some good play. And if my play doesn't start getting any better, it's gonna tell me it's it's time to start, you know, slowing down and stay home with and be with the grandkids a little more. So we'll see. I'm I'm hoping to uh start off in Hawaii here in the next week and hoping to get off to a decent start. So we'll just see. I'm uh I enjoy working on my game, I enjoy competing. The travel, I will confess, does get old. I get tired of getting on a plane, but I would like to continue to compete and compete and contend. So we'll just see what this year holds. I'm not sure.

Mike Gonzalez 21:11

Bruce, you know, for the guys in your vintage um who had an opportunity to also compete on the senior circuit. The pension plan probably a little bit more lucrative from the senior tour, even than the regular tour, huh?

Bruce Devlin 21:26

Yeah, well, I uh I I can give you some numbers. Uh you know, you had to have at least ten thousand dollars in your account to uh to to put it away for a later day on the on the regular tour. Well, I got forty six hundred dollars for my pension off the regular tour. One check,$4,600. But the senior tour was a different story. I I got to accumulate a little bit over$300,000 on the senior tour. So uh that was uh you know, like Larry said, uh you know, to be able to do it at a at a you know fifty plus years and to think that you could still find a way to you know put a little bit of money aside, uh it was it it was a great great thing to be able to do. You're right.

Mike Gonzalez 22:23

Larry, uh let's talk about the Masters this year. Are you gonna be playing in the Masters again?

Larry Mize 22:28

Yep, I'm I'll be playing in the Masters this year, looking forward to it. I had a really maybe my worst masters last year, which was disappointing. Um so really looking forward to rectify that. I you know, don't have uh many years left to play there. The course is awfully long and tough for me, but I I still think I can uh play it and still think I can make the cut. So we'll be out there grinding this year and trying to do that. So I uh, you know, even January comes around as it is now. I'm still it's in the back of my mind, okay, what do I need to do to get ready for Augusta? What can I do to sneak a few more yards out of that driver to get a little closer to those greens? So I look forward to it and it'll be a lot of fun. Happy to say that par three tournament's back on this year, I've heard. So that's good.

Mike Gonzalez 23:14

Good.

Larry Mize 23:14

That's always a fun thing. We uh, you know, normally Langer and I play together in that with sometimes we play with uh a buddy of his, um uh I guess I've gone blank, the wonderful German. We play with a young great German player, used to be number one, and I've gone a senior one.

Mike Gonzalez 23:28

Well, Martin Martin Keimer, maybe?

Larry Mize 23:29

Martin Keimer, thank you very much. Martin is playing with us. So it's a great, uh, great, fun event that par three is. So looking forward to Augusta and uh looking forward to competing again.

Mike Gonzalez 23:40

I've mentioned this, I think, when we were visiting with Fuzzy Zeller, uh Bruce, but my father and I, Larry, and my two brothers back in the 90s, probably every year in the 90s, we would come down for the practice rounds. And we'd be there Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, probably play golf on Monday somewhere in the area, and then Tuesday, Wednesday we'd go to practice rounds, always finishing up at the par three tournament on Wednesday. And oftentimes we'd fly down from Chicago, we wouldn't even have any tickets. Of course, it's a little different these days. Yeah, but you could go out on Washington Road and find a ticket. So uh one year we're sitting behind, we always sit behind number two on the par three, right? The shortest little, I don't know, what is that, 63 yards, 67 yards.

Bruce Devlin 24:22

Back up the hill.

Mike Gonzalez 24:23

So you guys are flipping little sandwiches in there. I can't so I told Fuzzy, I said, the first time I met you, Fuzzy, you one hopped a sandwich Circuson into my lap. And he signed the ball for him. I mean, it was quite nice, but uh that was my first uh first beating with Fuzzy Zeller. Well, uh, it's it's good to hear that tournament is back on the par three because that is a a fan favorite, I'm sure a player favorite as well.

Larry Mize 24:48

Yeah, it really is. I mean, we get to have a lot of fun before the tournament, and you know, you get to put those greens which are very close to the tournament grains as well. And you could have your kids caddy for you, my three boys have all caddy for me to par three, so you'll get that big it's kind of a family fun event as well. So it's it's a blast. You know, you they give the crystal away for closest to the holes on all the holes, so it's uh just a nice, relaxing, fun event the day before the tournament.

Mike Gonzalez 25:15

So so what occupies your time these days, other than competing on the senior tour? I'm sure you've still got some open weeks with the schedule you shared with us earlier. What other kinds of interests do you have that uh sort of keep your time occupied?

Larry Mize 25:28

Well, you know, one thing, uh I have three grandkids now. So my wife and two of them are in town with us, so I get to see them a good bit, the two two boys, uh uh Henry and Charlie. And then I've got uh McKinley, a little little granddaughter over in Augusta, so we get to see her some as well. So that uh that occupies my time and it's a lot of fun. Uh grandparenting definitely lives up to expectations. It is really good. So I I enjoy that. I I love to fish and I enjoy fishing. I started hunting about uh about eight years ago, and I look forward to spring. I look forward to spring for the gut for two things for Augusta and for turkey season. Because turkey season I love to turkey hunt, and I'll be turkey hunting this year, and so that's a lot of fun. So that occupies my time and and just hanging out with my wife Bonnie. She's my uh she's my best friend, and we have a great time spending time together. So uh that that keeps me busy and it's uh I'm very I'm a very blessed man.

Bruce Devlin 26:25

So Larry, we we normally ask everybody we get on the on the podcast two questions. Uh my first question to you is if you had a mulligan, where would you take it?

Larry Mize 26:40

Wow, that's a great question. If I had a mulligan, where would I take it? You know, because I've blown a couple of tournaments, and if I had a mulligan, um it's gotta be the players' championship, I guess. It's gotta be there. You know, I I I also uh had a had a little bit of a struggle at Hartford in '98 that would be would be a close second, but I would definitely take a mulligan at the players' championship to uh change that, change that turn, change that, change that, change that finish if I could, because it would be wonderful to be a players' champion as well.

Mike Gonzalez 27:20

So that was 1986, TPC Sawgrass, uh a tough second place finish to John Mahaffey. Which shot would it be?

Larry Mize 27:29

You know, that's a great question. I I really think what started it all was the second shot on 14. I think I would take that second shot over again and not go with the pin, play at the center of the green. And my hope would be that would get my mind set right to do that the rest of the way in because I had a three-shot lead, and if I'd have just played to the center of the greens, hopefully things would have been different. So I think I would take the mulligan on that second shot there because I hit a really good drive, and I only had an eight-iron eight-iron in there, and I missed the green and made bogey, and then I bogey the next hole, and I bogey the next hole. So that kind of started the problem. So I would take the mulligan there and hope it would turn out differently.

Mike Gonzalez 28:07

And you mentioned Hartford, that was back in 1998. I think you were in a playoff with Olin Brown, who eventually won, and Stuart Sink, right?

Larry Mize 28:15

Yeah, and and I I definitely that confirms I'd take it at the players because at Hartford, I really Hartford was more of a bad break on the 15th hole. Um, I kind of hung a five-iron a little bit, but it was really going to be fine. But there's some branches overhanging the fairway, and it kicked the ball dead right in the woods, and I had to take it on playable, had to go back to the T because I couldn't do anything. So I made a double bogey there, and then I three-putted the next hole, and then bogey hard the next hole, missing a good birdie putting and a bogeyed 18. So it was, but I really that's as good as I've ever played having that kind of struggle because as far as the shots I hit, I really didn't hit a bad shot. I got a bad break on 15. Just that's just the way it goes sometimes.

Mike Gonzalez 29:02

And Bruce, our other question is Go ahead.

Bruce Devlin 29:05

You your your your turn to ask this one. Now I'll ask it. I'll ask. Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead. Yeah. So here's here's our other question. If you knew what you know now when you were 20 years old or first come out on the tour, what would you do different?

Larry Mize 29:24

Wow, that's a great question. You're only giving me some questions I'd never had before. If I knew what would I do different. I guess I guess I would probably adjust the way that I prepare and practice. I think I've I've as you go through you learn what I need to do and what are my strengths and weaknesses, what I need to work on to be the best I can be. And you know, you make mistakes, at least I make mistakes, I think we all do, and you learn from that and you get better. I think I'm a much better practicer now than I was when I was younger. So I think I would know how to prepare and practice for the tournaments better now than I did then. I think I would change the way that I prepared. Not that I prepared bad. I mean, I just I just know how to do it better now. Not that I didn't work hard back then, because after going to tour school in 80, I learned that's my work ethic got better. But I still think I could be more efficient with my practice sessions and get my game in even better shape, I think, now than I did back then, just because of what I've learned.

Mike Gonzalez 30:36

Larry, the game has changed a lot in the 42 years, nearly 42 years since you first attended your first tour school. Why don't you reflect a little bit on the changes? Uh, what do you think are the changes that are good for the game? And are there any that perhaps uh go the other way?

Larry Mize 30:53

Well, you know, I've never been a fan of the tour school. You can't come out on the PGA tour anymore. Uh, it goes straight to the Corn Ferry tour. Um, and maybe it's the right thing. Um I don't know, but I'm wish that guys could go through tour school and come on out on the PGA tour. And so that's one of the things I wish that changes. I don't know if it's a good change. Maybe it is. I still wish someone could earn their way on the PGA tour right out of college going through tour school. Um, so now you have to go through the quarantine tour. And other changes. Generally speaking, I think it's been good. I think the USGA has done some good things with changes they've made. I mean, we used to drop the ball over our shoulder. You know, I think the ball drop has definitely been a good change. I'm not sure why they made it down to knee height. That's kind of interesting. But the fact that you can hold the ball in front of you and drop it and see where you're dropping it, I think was a good change. Um one other change, and I learned this reading that book, uh, Miracle of Marion. Back then, when you hit a ball out of bounds, it was not stroke and distance, you just dropped it in bounds like it was a water hazard where it was and went on from there. I'd like to see that rule go back to that because no one's going to convince me that it's worse to hit a ball out of bounds than it is to whiff it.

Bruce Devlin 32:12

Yeah.

Larry Mize 32:12

And if you whiff a ball, completely miss it, it's just one shot. If you go out of bounds, it's a stroke and distance. I think it should be out of bounds, it should be more like a hazard where you, okay, stroke penalty, drop it in bounds, and play from there. I think it would speed up play, and I think it's a it's a much more fair rule than having to tee it up again, having to go all the way back to T-Box. It really slows up play, and I think that's uh it's not that bad of a shot to hit the ball, you know, barely out of bounds and you penalize that much. I would change that.

Bruce Devlin 32:43

So has the golf ball and the metal drivers been a really good change for the golf, or is it the other way around?

Larry Mize 32:54

Well, the probably who you it's probably who you're going to talk to has been good. I think that uh I think the change has been really good for some players, and I think it's not been as good for other players. Uh I think that the USGA has let it get out of hand. I hate the fact that we're making some great golf courses obsolete. I think if they could have caught it earlier and kept the ball where you know 300 was long rather than 360, so that sometimes Marion, some of these great golf courses, can still be in play. So I think that they kind of lost lost that a little bit, and now it's hard to bring it back. So I wish they could have caught that earlier, and I think it would have been uh I think it'd been good for golf. Now, you know, Tom Kite said this years ago: golf courses are longer, they cost more to build, takes more time to play, everything's maintenance is more expensive. It's just it's not a good thing for golf, in my opinion. And I think if the golf courses, you know, if they could have held that back, I think everything could be better because it's you know, now it takes longer to play golf and it keeps people from playing. And you know, it's a lot easier for some guys to go play tennis for an hour and get good exercise than to go play golf and it takes five, six hours to play teen holes.

Bruce Devlin 34:11

Yeah.

Larry Mize 34:11

So I think that was uh would be good if they could bring that in, but that's a hard thing once you let the horse out of the gate to bring him back in. It's very hard.

Mike Gonzalez 34:22

Uh in the in the time we have left, Larry, I'd like to have you just reflect a little bit on about your game, particularly at your peak. If you look at various aspects of the game uh and described it for our listeners, what were the best aspects of the game and which of the uh aspects of your game uh would you have liked to have been better at?

Larry Mize 34:41

Well, you know, if I could have if I could have had a little more length, that would have been nice. I was very average. I was, I guess I was long enough, you would say, but I wasn't long. So a little more length, it was always a good thing. Um my strengths were my accuracy. I was I was a straight driver, and I had a good short game. Uh my short game was was a strength, and driving was a strength. And I was a good iron player, not a not a great iron player. I think my strength at iron play was uh uh actually middle and long iron. And I think that that was why I played some of the, you know, even though I didn't win Kemper, I played well there because it was a longer golf course, a lot of middle and long iron irons, and I think that suited my game well. I was good at that. I was an okay short iron player. I think I'm a better wedge player now than I was when I was younger because I work on it harder. One of the things I would change, I would definitely work on my wedge game in 120 yards and in harder when I was younger. I sure do now with you know all the what they have now, a track man, everything. So I was okay with that. People think I was people think I was better than I think I was with that part of the game. But uh the midland long iron driving and short game was what I did well. And if I wish I'd have been a better short iron player.

Mike Gonzalez 35:53

And on those days when uh you woke up, came out of bed, and and maybe the body just wasn't quite in sync that day, what was your go-to shot that you could sort of count on to get the ball in play?

Larry Mize 36:04

Um, that's a great question. Because I've I struggle with a go-to shot now. Sometimes I got that army golf going, it goes both ways. But my go-to shot back then was really a uh, I would this is going to sound crazy. I would try and cut the ball. And it wouldn't cut because I'm an in-to-out hooker of the ball, drawer of the ball my whole career. So I would try and hit some kind of cut shot down the fairway, but I would actually play it down the center to right center, try and cut it and still hit a kind of a draw down the fairway. But I tried to get out of getting stuck on the inside out. I would try and get that club more in front of me, try and hit some kind of cut shot to get the club on the ball and not be so late with it. Sometimes I'd be late and I'd flip it with my hands or I'd block it right. So trying to hit some kind of cut shot would be my go-to, even though it would not cut.

Bruce Devlin 36:54

Interesting. Very interesting.

Mike Gonzalez 36:56

So, Larry, how would you like to be remembered as a golfer?

Larry Mize 37:01

Well, another good question. You know, I guess in a way, I'd I'd want to be remembered as a good Christian man rather than a golfer. Golf is what I do, it's not who I am. You know, my faith in Jesus Christ is the most important thing to me. So I'd like to be remembered as a good golfer and a nice guy, but most importantly, as someone who uh loved people, loved God, and just wanted to live life the right way and bring honor and glory to God and whatever he did.

Bruce Devlin 37:32

You've done that, I think, Larry Myers. You've been a great addition to the game of golf, I can assure you of that. And I know I know Mike agrees with me, but it's been great having you with us. Uh we we've got to learn a lot about who Larry Myers is, and uh and everything about him has been positive as far as I'm concerned. Thank you for being with us.

Larry Mize 37:54

Well, Bruce and Mike, it's great to be with you all. It's a privilege and uh to be with y'all. And uh thank you for having me.

Mike Gonzalez 38:01

Thank you for listening to another episode of For the Good of the Game. That's when McKay. And please, wherever you listen to your podcast on Apple and Spotify, if you like what you hear, please subscribe, spread the word, and tell your friends until we take it up again with the good of the game.