Mark O'Meara - Part 3 (Later PGA Tour Wins and the Ryder Cup)

Mike Gonzalez 0:15

He then went on to win the uh Canadian Open, which you know the Canadian Open was a big deal back in the day, wasn't it?

Mark O'Meara 0:23

Well, you know, as as Bruce, I mean, look, it was kind of considered one of the top five. Yeah, I mean, it's the Open Championship of Canada. So what was fun about 95 is the first two days I was paired with Jack Nicholas. And I had Jack's scorecard. And Jack missed the cut by a shot. And I was playing good, I was making putts or whatever. And I remember Jack walking off one of the greens is like, boy, I just made it like a 12-footer for Bertie. He goes, Boy, you sure know how to use that piece of equipment well. And I looked over and I'm like, Jack, are you kidding me? I said, You're the greatest player and you're the greatest putter of all time. Don't be telling me how good I put with this with this little weapon here. I said, You do pretty well yourself, sir. And I had his card and he he missed a cut by a shot. And I remember him saying to me in the scorers tent on Friday, he goes, you know, Mark, nice playing. Good luck on the weekend. He goes, I gotta tell you something. I said, What's that, sir? He goes, This is the one tournament, and the one tournament that I've always wanted to win in my entire life, and I never he never won the Canadian Open. Finished second like five times, I think, in the Canadian Open. And it was on his course. Yeah, he designed Glen Adams.

Bruce Devlin 1:34

I was gonna say he built the course too.

Mark O'Meara 1:36

And then I went on to win later that week in a playoff over Bob Lohr on the 18th hole.

Mike Gonzalez 1:41

Yeah, but I just remember growing up and uh remembering just what a big deal the Canadian Open was. As Bruce said, it it seemed as though it was like a fifth major.

Mark O'Meara 1:49

Yeah. Yeah. And it was what was fun. You know, then you back forward maybe 10 years later, 12 years later, whatever it was. The story goes, which is a very true story. Um, we played a Tiger and I were up there at Glen Abbey and we played a practice. We played nine holes on a Tuesday, late in the afternoon. And we went to dinner, we stopped at a Boston pizza place, and it was myself, Tiger, and Steve Williams. And we had a booth, and he sat over on one side, I'm sitting there, and we're having this pizza and a Caesar salad or whatever. And I remember looking across the table at Tiger, and I said to him, I said, Hey, bud. And he's like, What, Emmo? I said, I got something you don't have. And he goes, Really? He goes, What's that? And I said, I've won the Canadian Open. You haven't. And he just paused, he stirred right at me for about five seconds. And he goes, Well, not yet, anyways. And guess who hit the shot out of the fairway bunker on the 18th hole over the lake to about six feet and won the Canadian Open that week. That's Tiger Woods. I mean, are you kidding me?

Bruce Devlin 2:48

That's one of the greatest shots that was ever hit out of a bunker there. I was doing the TV again there and watched that thing. I thought, no, he's gonna hit it's he's hit it in the water. Right.

Mark O'Meara 3:01

Only Tiger Woods can do that. Nearly went in the hole. Crazy.

Bruce Devlin 3:05

Nothing but fabulous shot.

Mike Gonzalez 3:07

Now, had you had you moved to Florida by then?

Mark O'Meara 3:11

Yeah. Okay. No, uh when did I move to Florida? Yeah, I was in Florida. I moved to Florida in 1989.

Mike Gonzalez 3:18

Okay. Okay. All right. And then so when did you cross paths with Tiger Woods?

Mark O'Meara 3:23

When he I met him the first time when he was 17 years old. He was down in Durral playing in a junior tournament, and I had gotten a call from Mark McCormick. I was living at Isleworth at the time in Orlando.

Bruce Devlin 3:34

Yeah.

Mark O'Meara 3:34

And I got a call from Mr. McCormick and he says, Hey, Tiger's coming up through Central Florida. Would you play golf with him and his father tomorrow? I'm like, sure, I'm here, no problem. So that was the first time we actually played golf together and got to know each other when he was 17. And then, of course, I followed his career and gave him my cell phone number, and we stayed in touch. And he came and played obviously in a lot of pro tournaments as an amateur. Um, and then when he turned pro at 19, uh, when he was getting ready to sign the deal with Nike and Phil Knight, his manager, Hughes Norton, was my manager. Uh, and Hughes called me and said, Look, we're moving Tiger out of California and he's gonna, I bought a Tiger bought a condo behind your house there at Isleworth. He's we're gonna be moving him in here next week. Would you look after him? I'm like, sure, he's got my cell phone number, have him call me. And he did, and then that's how it all started. You know, we we started practicing, playing together. And at that time, Mike, he hadn't even won a tournament yet. Um, you know, before he went to Milwaukee to to make his debut, and you know, then later won at the Las Vegas Invitational. It was his first PJ Tour win, I believe. Um, and then you know, he became my little brother, and and so many things had transpired where we were practicing, playing together, and he'd be always be like, you know, MO, you know, how come you know you haven't done this? I want to play on Ryder Cup teams, I want to play against you heads up, coming down the stretch, you know, on and on and on. And then he finally dropped the old, how come you haven't won a major? And I'm like, listen, you little, you know, punk T. Yeah. I said it did start with P, but I came with Punk, so I kept it a little bit more G-rated. Um, it's not like I haven't tried to win a major. I mean, it's just maybe I don't know, maybe it's not in the cards. It's not like I haven't given it an effort. I've come close several times, but it is what it is.

Bruce Devlin 5:16

Well, you started it, you know. You started it when he said he had a lot of things.

Mark O'Meara 5:21

Yeah, plus in 97, to be honest, in 97 we were home practicing, and you know, he shot 59 with not birdie and two par fives on the front nine with a five-iron and a three-iron, and that's when he shot 13 under that day. That was the week before the masters in 97. The next day we go out and play and we tee off on 10. Of course, he birties 10. It was just he and I. He was in his cart, I was in my cart, and we drive over to the 11th hole, it's a par three at Isleworth over the lake. And we always had like, we didn't play for a lot of money. I'm not a big gambler, and we were playing$10 or$20 automatic one-downs, and of course, he's screaming at me as he's riding across the cart path to the 11th T. Hey, amo, you know, you went down, and he gets up on the tee, grabs his eight iron, he's already on the tee. I'm getting out of my cart, grabbing my seven iron, and I look over and I see him hit his shot, boom, boom, holes it the hole in one. So I go back to my cart, I put my seven iron back in my bag, I grab a hundred dollars and I go over and I set it on his seat. And I told him, I said, he's like, What are you doing? I said, Well, I quit. I said, Here's a hundred dollars. I'm paying off early bet. I'm quitting, I'm going to the driving range. I'm not playing golf with you anymore. I'm done with this. This is ridiculous. I said, Let's just face the fact. He goes, Why? And I said, Well, let me point it out. We've just played 20 holes of golf, and you're 16 under par. I may not be the smartest guy. I did get my degree at Law Beach State, but I'm not stupid. So I'm gonna go to the range and practice. You have a great time playing by yourself. Good luck. So that's and then next week, you know, he next week he he goes on and and wins his his first major championship at Augusta National and a record-breaking performance. I mean, you know, yeah, yeah. Unbelievable. Yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 7:04

What's the most astounding thing you ever saw him do? Let's say outside of a tournament, just but just messing around, you know, things he might have been trying to show off or something with his skills.

Mark O'Meara 7:14

Uh well, I I would say that that that that you know I was blessed for this young man to come into my life. He changed my life. He really did. And I felt like I had a big impact on his life because, you know, I was his big brother. I was a guy that could, you know, he could bounce things off of. He didn't have a there was not a lot of 19-year-old individuals out there that were as famous and had the kind of game that he had. Um, and I could never hit a golf ball like Tiger Woods or play like Tiger Woods, but I knew deep down inside, and I knew that he knew that I could beat him. And I did a number of times. Um, but I would say that that if I ever my point about Tiger Woods would be is if I ever wanted Tiger Woods to do something, all I'd have to do is tell him, Don't do that. You can't do that. That's a sure way to make sure that it's gonna happen. And it did. And I remember over those 10 great years that I had being around him, practicing with him, playing, practice around, staying with him, traveling together with him. Um just the the fact that uh he was so driven and he had the gift. I mean, forget about you know, he my my my personal take was look, uh, Jack Nicholas has won 18 major championships. I mean, I I adore Mr. Nicholas and his family, and I have the highest respect for him. And when you go by majors, he's the greatest player. But when push comes to shove, I say to myself, and because I witnessed it, nobody's ever played golf like Tiger Woods. It has nothing to do with the equipment, it has nothing to do with anything else. Because here's the deal Tiger Woods had everything that Jack Nicholas had and more. And what I mean by that is Tiger Woods could overpower the golf courses. Jack Nicholas could overpower the golf courses. Jack Nicholas was a phenomenal long-iron player. Tiger Woods is a phenomenal long-iron player. Jack Nicholas has an unbelievable mind. Tiger Woods has an unbelievable mind. Jack Nicholas has tremendous heart. Tiger Woods has got tremendous heart. The difference is Tiger Woods had a phenomenal short game. Jack, you wouldn't say that he had a phenomenal short game. He was good, but not Tiger Woods.

Bruce Devlin 9:21

No, you're right, Mark. Absolutely correct.

Mike Gonzalez 9:24

I'm sure we'll come back to a little bit of that. Let's just finish out some of your regular tour wins if we can. Uh uh, we're now in 1980 and 96, and you win the Mercedes Championships at La Costa by three over Nick Faldo and Scott Hoke.

Mark O'Meara 9:38

Yeah. Well, that last day I remember being paired with with Nick Faldo. And I remember on the first tee, um I went to Glenn Tate, who is a tour official. I said to Glenn, I said, Hey, Glenn, you might as well go ahead and put us on the clock. And he's like, What? And I said, You heard me. I said, just put us on the clock right now because you're gonna come out there because Nick will play slow. Nick is a very methodical player, but he's a slow player and he'll try to play games. I know it, I feel it, it's gonna happen. So we'll go ahead, put us on the clock right now. And he giggled about it or whatever. And Nick didn't hear me say that to him. And we teed off and we played the first four holes, and sure enough, we tee off on five. We get on the tee, there's he can't see the group in front of us. We're playing two sums, and we're the last group. We hit our tee shots. Here comes Glenn Tate driving down the fairway in the golf cart. He's like, Hey, boys, you guys are behind. I'm gonna have to put you on the clock. And I said, Did I not tell you? And then Fallo looks at me like, Are we playing slow? I said, No, I think you got that wrong. There's no we in this. I said, You're playing slow, bro. I said, We don't see the group in front of us. How long does it take you to figure that out? Yeah. And you know, I fortunately I went on to win, and it was a great sweet victory because you know, Nick is obviously a tremendous player, but I took him down there in Honda, I took him down there at La Costa, and granted, he had a way better career than I had, but um, you know, hey, that's always Nick Feldon.

Bruce Devlin 11:00

That's right. It's nice to nice to meet a guy like that often.

Mike Gonzalez 11:03

Yep. Bruce, you came close here, speaking of Mr. Nicholas in 1971.

Bruce Devlin 11:08

Yeah, I did. Yeah, as a matter of fact, uh I think we I think we actually had uh rented a plane together uh after the golf tournament, and we ended up being one-two. That's pretty nice.

Mike Gonzalez 11:26

You were just on the wrong side of the one-two. I was on the wrong side.

Bruce Devlin 11:30

I I've been on the wrong side with him many times, thank you, sir, for reminding me of that.

Mike Gonzalez 11:35

Well, except except for that first lesson you got from him.

Bruce Devlin 11:39

Well, that's right. Mark Mark probably doesn't know that, but I did, you know, I was having a tough time. Uh we were playing at St. Pete, and I I'd get got to know Jack obviously in 1960 when I came over here. And uh we were uh I'm on the practice tee with him, and I said to him, God damn it, Jack, I just can't I can't drive it on the fairway. J just take a look for me, will you? And so he spent about 15 minutes with him, and then uh I beat him by four shots. So that was the last time he ever offered to give me a lesson again.

Mike Gonzalez 12:12

But let's move on to 1996, then Greater Greensboro Open at Forest Oaks Country Club by two over Duffy Waldorf. What do you remember about that one?

Mark O'Meara 12:23

Boy, I remember I made a long putt, I believe, on the 16th hole. Um, and then uh, you know, I I obviously went on to win, but I remember it was the Chrysler's Chrysler Greensboro Open, and I won a car, and I remember giving that car to my mother.

Bruce Devlin 12:40

Ah, no.

Mark O'Meara 12:41

So luckily I won a lot of not I didn't win a lot of tournaments, but the tournaments I won were like the Chrysler, the Honda, the Mercedes, the uh what else? I won the Hyundai, uh, I don't know, every car company except for the one like I represent. So, you know, my relationship obviously with Toyota and Lexus for all those years, but I did win a Toyota when I won the Skins game, because I won the Skins game a couple times, but um, and I was able to all those cars I gave away to everybody, so it was nice and the family, they all appreciated it.

Mike Gonzalez 13:13

So we'll move on to 1997. Uh win number five at the ATT Pebble Beach National Pro Am. So you beat Duvall and Tiger Woods by one. Was there any trash talking after that one? Oh, yeah.

Mark O'Meara 13:26

The only reason why was because Tiger was in the group in front of me on Sunday and he was birdieing every hole coming down the stretch, and the place was electric, you know, they go crazy. And I think if it wasn't for the fact that I had had a relationship and close one with him, most players would have probably folded up their armchair. I mean, it's just that's what happened a lot. That happened when Nicholas was doing what Jack was doing over all his career career. So, you know, Tiger was making pots, birdie in every hole, people were going crazy. You know, I chipped in for a birdie from off the edge of the green on 16. I'd hit a good T-shot on 17, and I looked up and I saw that he had a good drive and he's going for the green and two. So I say to myself, look, he's gonna knock it on and make Eagle. That's what he does. And luckily I made my birdie pot. He did knock it on the green, but he didn't make eagle, and I ended up, you know, clipping him by a shot. So uh just because I'd had a relationship with and knew him, and he was my younger basically brother, um, you know, that benefited me in that that tournament win there at Pebble in '97. Absolutely.

Mike Gonzalez 14:29

Uh let's let's finish up with regular season uh or regular tour wins, I suppose, uh same year, I guess later. Buick invitation. You mentioned the car companies uh at Torrey Pines, which is probably a course you knew, I would guess, uh having you probably played that growing up a little bit, huh?

Mark O'Meara 14:44

I did. I remember working there for back in the day, as Bruce knows, when like Bruce was doing the telecasts and stuff, um, I used to be a runner for ABC. And there was one year that I was working for a guy named Billy Edwards, who Bruce knows who Billy Edwards was. Billy Billy used to do all the half all the football games for for ABC, and he did all the golf tournaments. So I was working for ABC um several different places. I worked at La Costa as a as a spotter on the 17th Fairway. Um that year, uh one year I was working at Tory Pines for the Andy Williams, and um they asked me to to hop in this car to go out to the ninth green because there was this young guy that had just shot um 64 or 5 in his third round, had moved up the leaderboard, and they wanted me to get in the car with this person, and I'll tell you who it was, because they wanted me to go back to the interview room with him and then bring him back to the 17th tower to to do an interview with Frank Gifford. Frank Gifford used to do golf. And so that person was Tom Watson, and so I waited behind the ninth green at Tory Pines for Tom to finish, got a scorecard, introduced myself. I rode back in the car with he and Linda, who was his wife at the time. And then I escorted Mr. Watson back to the 17th green, and we basically walked. Um, and he was great. I was I would have been at 15 or 16 at the time. And Tom was super nice, talked to me a little bit about different things, and then you know, certainly I I had my professional career and um got to know him and this and that. But in 97, after coming off the win at Pebble, now we the next week is is Tory Pines. And, you know, like you said, Mike, you know, I I went on to win, so it was back to back um the Buick invitational at the time. And it's interesting because you know, certainly Bruce and myself and being a professional golfer or amateur golf, whatever, throughout your career, you know, you win these different titles or these different trophies. I still have that trophy at home at our place up in Park City with the rest of the stuff that we have. And the Buick Invitational Trophy, I I show people they want to see the Claret Jogger, they want to see the Masters Trophy, U.S. Amateur Trophy, whatever, Canadian open, all that stuff. But I said, you know what, trophy is really unique. And they said, which one? I said, and I open up the cabinet, and the trophy is literally the size of this cup right here, and it's the Buick Invitational. It looks like a trophy that you might have won in a fifth-place junior golf tournament. And yet that was the Torrey Pines trophy that I won, the Buick Invitational in 1997. Good thing that a car came with it in 180,000 because the trophy looks like it's worth about you know a dollar fifty.

Bruce Devlin 17:33

By the way, uh your name uh that you were called back then being a runner. You know what the original name for people like you were? What? Gophers. Go for this, go for that, Mark. Go for this, Mark.

Mark O'Meara 17:51

You know what? It's funny you you brought that up, Bruce, because when I played high school golf, and you know, everybody always thought back then, you know, you played in the golf team, you were kind of a sissy or this or that. Yeah. And they used to call us the gophers. The gophers. Don't kill the golfers. Go out there and kill all those gophers out there.

Mike Gonzalez 18:09

Well, that was the uh Torrey Pine South course, at least. That was the course that hosted the uh U.S. Open this year, which is uh uh at least 2021. For those of you listening 50 years from now, you you you'll have to read your history books. But uh uh there's a little pond there named after you, Mr. Devlin.

Bruce Devlin 18:27

Do we have to bring that up? What happened?

Mike Gonzalez 18:31

Well Have you heard this story, Mark? You probably oh yeah. Go ahead.

Mark O'Meara 18:34

I gotta hear it again, though.

Bruce Devlin 18:36

Well, I was I was now a long way in front of Mr. Watson uh tea time-wise, quite a few shots behind, and I came to the last hole a considerable number under power, and I figured, you know, if I can make three, I can probably win the golf tournament. And I drove it just in the right fringe rough, had the most perfect lie you've ever seen, hit a forward, and it was coming down right at the flag, and it sort of hit about well, you know, maybe an inch on or an inch off the edge of the water of the lake, and it's it stayed there for a second, and then it wiggled its way back down into the water. And uh seven shots later, I got it out about 25 feet and hold it for ten. I guess that was sort of the original tin cup.

Mark O'Meara 19:30

The devilin pond. The the villabong.

Bruce Devlin 19:32

The villabong. The villabong.

Mike Gonzalez 19:34

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think they talked about that during the coverage this year.

Bruce Devlin 19:38

Yeah, they normally say it can happen.

Mark O'Meara 19:41

It can happen.

Bruce Devlin 19:41

Yeah, I mean, it's one minute you play one minute you're a genius, and the next minute you're a goat.

Mark O'Meara 19:47

Yep, yep. That's what this game will do to you.

Mike Gonzalez 19:51

Uh having covered your regular season tour wins on the PGA tour, before we get to the majors, uh uh uh you played in some team competitions. Of course, we can save uh the major team stuff uh uh for later, like Ryder Cup. But uh you you you uh well let let's start with let's start with another significant victory, which is an individual victory, that same 98 year with all that success in the majors. You won the world match play, uh beating your neighbor as well.

Mark O'Meara 20:21

Yeah. 98 uh we went across the pond to Wentworth. And that year, I think it was the Cisco World Match play. It was it was deemed, and it was always a class event. I mean, Bruce would have known he probably would have played. I didn't play. Um you know, it was always it was uh usually it was they were all 36 home matches. Uh you know, in that year, because I had won both majors, I was I had a bye in the first round, and and in the semifinals, I'll never forget. I played Vijay Singh, and Tiger was against Ian Woosnum. And I played VJ in the first match, and I beat VJ 11 and 10.

Bruce Devlin 21:00

Whoa.

Mark O'Meara 21:01

Whoa. And Tiger, Tiger and Woozie went one extra hole, and Tiger beat Woosnum on the 37th hole. And so certainly Tiger and I are gonna play in the the finals the next day. And we had dinner that night before, and um we were talking about it, and Tiger's like, isn't this great? You know, two buddies going at it, you and me, M.O., you know, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I thought to myself, God, I hope he doesn't beat me worse than I just beat VJ today. Uh we got out there, and of course, Tiger's, you know, four under after six or seven holes. He's got the fist pumping going and all this stuff. And I remember having to tell him, hey, I said, Tiger, hold on for a second here now. And he goes, What, MO? And we're walking down the eighth hole. And I said, You see those people on the other side of the yellow rope? And he goes, Yeah, what about them? I said, They came out here to see like a nice golf match. I said, What about our dinner last night? We were talking about two buds, you know, fun day out in the golf course, this and that. I said, You're four under after like seven holes. I said, What, what? And he goes, I said, You got the fist pumping going. I'm like, give me a break. And he goes, I can help you with that ammo. I'm like, really? How? And he goes, play better. Yeah. Anyways, I, you know, I ended up, like you said, I hung in there and we made we had lunch, we made the turn. I played a little bit better. And and then we were even going to the 12th hole, the par five there. And I remember he hit his drive in the right rough. I hit one down the fairway and he came over to me as we were walking off the tee. And he said, you know, he put his arm around me and he goes, you know what? He goes, whether I win today or you win today. Well, it's been great playing against you. I'm like, yeah, there you go. And I said, Thanks. And he walked off. And that's kind of when I knew I might have had him by then. But the only problem is three of those last six holes are par fives at Wentworth. Yeah. You know, 12 and par fives, 17 and 18. So that doesn't bode well for me. Um, but I did. I beat him one up on the last hole. I was one up playing last hole, and then he hit it on in two. I hit it on three. I was on the front fringe, had about a 14-footer. I knew I had to make it because I knew he was gonna not, you know, three putt. And um I made it for Birdie, and then the match was over.

Mike Gonzalez 23:07

Now, were were they still giving you Rolls Royce's to drive back then?

Mark O'Meara 23:11

Oh they had we had drivers, we had houses, and they had chef. They looked after us, didn't they? Man, they looked after us. They did. It was a great event. I mean, it really was. Really was fun to win, yeah, especially beating him. Yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 23:24

You mentioned winning a couple of skins games. That was 98 and 2002. The the Australian Masters, you'd already talked about an 86 by one over David Graham. You won several team championships with the likes of Curtis Strange and John Cook and Tiger Woods, too, didn't you?

Mark O'Meara 23:39

Yep. Yeah, I think certainly, you know, uh winning with Curtis in the first uh shark shootout uh out in LA uh was the first one, and Curtis and I won that. And then um, which listen, if I ever needed somebody to make an eight-footer on the last hole for a tournament win, you know, Curtis would be one of those guys I'd put top of my list to make that putt. Tremendous competit competitor as Bruce knows and had had watched to and played with. Um and then uh the world uh the World Cup down at Kuala Lumpur in uh Malaysia. That was paired with Tiger Woods as my partner. Back then it was uh it was an aggregate two-score count for for four days. And after three rounds, Tiger had a fairly substantial lead individually, and we were leading the team event over the Spaniards. And we went out on Sunday, it was super hot, and I didn't play very well. I shot, I don't know, I hit in the water and a hole, made a double or another double or whatever. And next thing you know, the the Spaniards had caught us. And Tiger went in to use the the men's locker room after nine holes. He was still leading individually, and we went up to the 10th T and my caddy, a guy named Robert Larson at the time, was catting for me, and Steve Williams was catting for Tiger. And I remember looking over on the T, we were waiting, and Steve says to Robert, you know, kind of under his breath, hey Robert, you got to get Mark, you know, in the game, you got to get him playing better. You know, talk to him. And I overheard him, and I looked over at Steve Williams and I said, Steve, I said, Listen, I've got this totally under control. All right, just just hang in there, don't worry about a thing. I've got it, I got it handled. And he's doesn't, he's looking at me like, what? Tiger walks on the T and I pull him aside. I said, Hey, T Dubs. He's like, What? And I said, Listen, it's time for you to step up your game. And Steve's like, What the hell? And I and Tiger, you know, of course, Tiger being young, he's like, Yeah, yeah, sure, I'll do it. Whatever. Yeah. So what does he do? Hey, Bertie's 10, 11, 12, 13, pars 14, Birdie's 15. And I made all pars in one birdie. So next thing you know, now we're, you know, four up as a team, and he's of course, you know, leading by 15 individually.

Bruce Devlin 25:40

Yeah.

Mark O'Meara 25:41

And we go over to the 16th hole as a par three over the water, and I'm over the ball and I'm about ready to hit it. It's like a six-iron shot. And before I'm just taking my waggle and Tiger being the practical joker that he is, he's like, Hey, Emmo. I'm like, Yeah. He goes, Don't hit in the water. So I hit it over the left side of the green and with two putt, and we get to the 18th hole, and we win, and he wins individually. We win the team together. And I remember he gives me a hug and he goes, Emmo. I'm like, yeah, T. And he goes, I just want you to know something. I said, what? He goes, we're done. I am done carrying your ass. This is it. This is our swang song. I'm like, okay, cool. At least we got a World Cup victory out of it. I'm good with that.

Mike Gonzalez 26:20

Yeah. Bruce, you had a little luck with David Graham in one of those, didn't you?

Bruce Devlin 26:25

Yeah, David and I won down in uh Buenos Aires in Argentina. We we were fortunate enough to win down there. That was a that was a fun. It's always fun to win in other countries, too, don't you think, Mark?

Mark O'Meara 26:37

I mean, it's fun to play at the Well, I I I you know I've always said that. You know, Bruce, I I said, you know, as a young American player, once I had won on the PJ tour like 84-85, you know, and I had the opportunity to start traveling around the world a little bit to win in another country, to take your game abroad and perform at a high level, it meant just as much to me as if I would have won in my own country. You know, what I when I won in Japan a couple times, winning Australia, winning in Europe, um, you know, and then late in my career, like I won in Dubai when I was 47 on the European tour for like my last win on the European tour. But, you know, the relationships and winning outside your own country just shows you how important the game is globally. It's not just an Australian game, it's not just an American game, it's a worldwide game. And we've seen that. We've seen how the game has grown throughout the world and how great the foreign players have embraced the game, and it's been evident in the Ryder Cup, you know, what the Europeans have done in the Ryder Cup.

Bruce Devlin 27:36

A lot of that uh certainly goes back to the American players. You know, everybody around the world has held the American players in great esteem. You know, you go back to in my days, you know, thinking about Hogan and Sneed and Demarrit and all those guys. Uh you know, you guys traveling around the world has helped the whole game, too. It's not, you know, it's it's been a great boost for those countries that you you played in, whether you won or not, it was it was important.

Mark O'Meara 28:05

Yeah, to keep it to always to keep growing the game and expanding the viewership and and the the game that we have been lucky to play all these years and still continue to love uh was what it was all about.

Mike Gonzalez 28:17

Why don't we just move on and uh and talk a little bit about Ryder Cup? Because you had uh had some fun across the years there uh as a player. Um let's talk first about uh 1985. That was uh uh at the Belfry with uh Lee Trevino, Jack, uh Tony Jacqueline as the captains. And and uh that was a big one because that was the first U.S. loss since 1957 and really the first Euro win, wasn't it?

Mark O'Meara 28:41

It was, it was. It was really the year that everything started to turn around, to change the wave. You know, for so many years the U.S. dominated the Ryder Cup that nobody really gave that much notice. You know, it was kind of an afterthought, you know, nobody really paid attention until we lost. And then that was that year in '85. And then next thing you know, slowly but surely the European team developed um quite um competitiveness. You know, you got Sevi Balesteros, you got Sandy Lyle, Woosnum, Langer, um, Torrance. I mean, you had a lot of world-class players that started bringing their A game and started to make it very competitive.

Mike Gonzalez 29:22

Yeah, I seem to remember the 83 one, which I think was at PGA National, if I recall. And and uh uh I think uh right the Europeans sort of uh sort of were making their statement like, hey, we're gonna make a game of this Ryder Cup thing, guys.

Mark O'Meara 29:38

Yeah, and Lanny hit that wedge on the last hole, you know, at PGA national. So um you're right. I mean, that was that was kind of the start of it, and then they they parlayed that into the victory in 85. And then from there going forward, I mean, it was always pretty close.

Mike Gonzalez 29:53

Yeah, uh uh tied at the Belfry in 89, your second Ryder Cup with uh Europe retaining. Uh Raymond was the captain for the U.S. and Tony Jacklin again for the uh European team. And then uh uh probably the one that uh well you you you really had two memorable ones because you had the war by the shore and you had the battle of Brickline. Yeah.

Mark O'Meara 30:15

Well, I mean, like in '91, I Dave Stockton was our captain, and I thought Dave did a tremendous job. And it had nothing to do with us winning the Ryder Cup or losing the Ryder Cup. I just thought that Dave brought an atmosphere into the team room that was was really good. And most of the guys were playing pretty well. Uh it was at Kiowa, as you pointed out, Mike, which had just opened up. I mean, Pete Dye and Alice had just designed this golf course out in this you know area there in Kio Island, that in my opinion, besides playing PGA West in the in the desert, uh Kiowa was the hardest golf course I'd ever s seen. I mean, it was it was so penile. And then if you didn't hit the correct shot and the weather got bad, that it was going to be a nightmare out there. And sure enough, we you know, we saw that. I mean, it was it was uh you know, I didn't play that great. We I think Azer and I beat Faldo, and I can't believe I know whether he was playing with Guilford or he played with Paul Broadhurst. I can't remember who his partner was, but we beat him like alternate shot, like I don't know, seven and six or six and five. We smoked them. But I lost individually. Um I hit in the water on 17. I was one down playing the 17th hole and hit in the water. Uh we, you know, Cal Kovecki obviously had his little bit of thing, and you know, it came down to the last putt on Sunday, on the last green with the last group. And uh as your listeners would be intrigued to know that it was Hale Irwin and Bernard Langer. And it's hard to understand that after three days of competition that would come down to a six-foot putt. And Bernard Langer had that putt, a six-footer on the last screen. If he makes it, Europe wins, if he misses it, the United States wins. And you know, he missed, and we won. And I was happy that we won, but I was I felt bad for Bernard because you know, I mean, I wouldn't want anybody to have to have that kind of pressure or that underneath them. But in credit to him, he went back the next week in Europe and won in Germany like the German masters on the European Tour. So that shows the strength that that he has, and obviously we know the great player that that Bernard Langer is and the class hack that he is.

Bruce Devlin 32:25

Isn't that the truth? What a player.

Mike Gonzalez 32:27

And an interesting you looking back from a historical perspective that you've got the two greatest performers on the senior tour win-wise, and Hale Irwin and Bernard Langer playing in that final match.

Bruce Devlin 32:40

Yeah, that's crazy.

Mike Gonzalez 32:42

And we will be talking to Hale later this week. And one of the questions I'll ask him about that particular Ryder Cup is what he feels happened to his tee shot on the 18th hole.

Mark O'Meara 32:53

Yeah. Yeah. There was a lot of talk about that.

Mike Gonzalez 32:56

Matter of fact, uh who was it? Mark Rolfing just did an article for a golf publication just within the last few weeks, I think, about that very thing. And I think he mentioned the article he didn't have a chance to talk to Hale Irwin for the art for the article. And uh it'll just be interesting to see what Hale's view on that is. But that was the Steve Jones thing as well, a little controversy about Steve's injury, which was real because that was that car crash on the way to the dinner uh in Charleston, wasn't it?

Mark O'Meara 33:23

Yeah, Steve Pate. I mean Steve Pate, sorry. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, Pate. So we when we uh in the Ryder Cup, there always, you know, the the the there was always a dinner on on Thursday night before the first day of competition where both teams get together and a lot of the PGA members on both sides of the Atlantic uh and some of the hospitality and corporate stuff. And yeah, we were in a caravan in different limos heading towards Charleston, and of course, you know, there was an accident and his car got he was in a couple cars in front of me and got rear-ended by the car in front of us and threw you know Steve out of his seat and slammed him into the the side of the the the two seats that you sit on in limo. And yeah, I mean his bruise and his ribcage looked pretty nasty to be fair. And you know, he he the you know to be able to even think about playing was quite a miracle. So it you know these things happen.

Mike Gonzalez 34:17

Yeah, yeah. Well, a very memorable writer cup. Uh you went over to Valdorama, of course. That was the big one, probably when Sevy was captain, and that was such an emotional thing for him uh being at home in Spain to captain the Europeans to to victory. But then coming back and playing for Ben Crenshaw at at 99, of course, we all know what happened there. It was a magical uh type of thing at Brookline with all the history there. Uh Brookline, which Ben Crenshaw will easily tell you all about, and I'm sure he did with the with the team meetings, uh uh, you know, going back to Francis Lomet and the other things where Americans always seemed to prevail at Brookline. And uh you sure did that year as well, didn't you?

Mark O'Meara 34:59

Well, I just remember uh I didn't play the first day. He sat me the first day, and then I I played on Saturday. I think I won one match, maybe lost the other match. I can't remember if I how I did, but I remember in the finals I played Podrick Harrington uh, and um we were even going to the last hole, and I lost the last hole. Of course, we went back to the 17th green, and you know, we were all there when when the whole thing happened with Justin Leonard and Jose Mariola Thabel and Justin making the putting and whatever, you know, and nobody ran in in in in uh in Jose's line. But uh, you know, yeah, it's an emotional event that people love that, and yeah, the American team went crazy. But I also knew when I kind of went down the side of the green that he still had a putt, and you had to eventually calm down a little bit, and everybody did. But there was always a little bit of history between our side and their side, and you know, Sebi blessed his soul. I mean, one of the greats of our game. Um, and we lost him at a very early age in his life, but there was nobody a better competitor and more of a magician than Sebi Balesteros. And Sevi absolutely loved to beat up the Americans, loved it, lived for it. He lived for the Ryder Cup, he loved kicking the Americans' butts, period. And uh, you know, at Valdorama, he was super excited, rightfully so. They they Tom Kite was our captain. That was Tiger Woods' first Ryder Cup. I was paired with Tiger as my partner, and we won one match, we lost one match. Um, it was the only time I won my individual match. I played Jasper Parnovic and we lost the Ryder Cup at Valdorama. And then in '99, we were getting our butts handed to us at Brookline. And um, hey, we all remember that that famous moment when Ben Cr on Saturday night waved his little finger in there when all of us in our playing room, our team room were watching him, and he's like, you know, I've got a feeling, and I'm thinking, what in the heck is he talking about? And I got a feeling too that we're absolutely getting our butts handed to us. And we were all like, is he actually just saying that? And you know, somehow, some way that happened. It happened, and we won. And and then, you know, we've seen it happen on the other side too, at Medina when Davis Love um and uh, you know, we had the big lead of the American side, and the Europeans came back and won the Ryder Cup there that that year at Medina, so it can happen.

Mike Gonzalez 37:28

Thank you for listening to another episode of For the Good of the Game. And please, wherever you listen to your podcast on Apple and Spotify, if you like what you hear, please subscribe, spread the word, and tell your friends until we teat up again for the good of the game. So long, everybody.