Mary Mills - Part 1 (The Early Years and the 1963 Women's U.S. Open)

Intro Music 0:07

Straight down the middle. It went straight down the middle.

Mike Gonzalez 0:13

Then it started to welcome to another edition of FORE the Good of the Game and Bruce Devlin. A couple things strike me this morning. First of all, this guest may be the only guest who won a tournament on the same exact day that you did. And I think it's, I know it's our only guest that brought her own caddy with her today.

Bruce Devlin 0:36

Well, not only that, but uh she that that means that gives me the idea that she's getting close to my age if she won a tournament the same time as I did. She actually won nine professional tournaments. A three-time major winner, by the way, and one of the great players that ever went on the LPGA tour. Mary Mills, thank you, Mary, for joining Mike and I today. We really look forward to talking with you.

Mary Mills 1:02

Well, thank you. It's a pleasure to be here. I'm looking forward to this.

Mike Gonzalez 1:07

Mary, great to have you. And you know, we we mentioned you bringing your caddy. We might as well bring him on because uh this is a fella that I'll let you introduce, but uh he caddied for you back in the day. Why don't you uh why don't you tell us who we've got and and and why don't you get just above Mary if you can, Van? I can't quite see you. There you go. There, perfect. Yeah. Who you got with you, Mary?

Mary Mills 1:31

I've got Van Costa for originally from Wooster Mass. And uh I met him at Pleasant Valley. Um, I think uh Van, wasn't it, in the either late 60s, early 70s, and you were not quite as uh you were just barely taller than the golf bags.

Van Costa 1:52

That is true. I met you in the late 60s, and I officially started caddying for you in 1974, uh, after they allowed LPGA Tour caddies at the end of the 1973 season. So we were together for about five years in the summer months and memorable times.

Mike Gonzalez 2:10

Yeah, uh for our listeners, Van Costa, not only one of the seven original professional caddies on the LPGA tour, but is also in the caddy Hall of Fame. So uh Van quite an accomplishment. Mary wasn't the only person you caddied for. No.

Van Costa 2:26

No, Big Al on the Men's Tour, and on the ladies' tour, I had the pleasure of carrying that bag for Mickey Wright, and then good friends Sandra Haney, Sally Little, uh Jane Blaylock, uh, just to name a few. And also uh an oldie but a goodie, Lada Labear, on the men's tour as well.

Bruce Devlin 2:45

Quite a quite a history, yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 2:47

Yeah, those are some great names. Of course, Big Al, you're referring to Al Geyberger, and and of course, with Mary, uh, this makes three of our guests that you've caddied for, and Bruce and I will have Sandra Haney on soon.

Van Costa 3:00

Oh, you're gonna have a good time with Sandra also. She's a good lady.

Mike Gonzalez 3:03

Yeah. Well, look, uh Van, uh, we would hope that in 50 years we've got golf fans listening to these podcasts to learn about the the golf greats like a Mary Mills. What would you want golf fans of the future to know about this lady?

Van Costa 3:17

Oh, that's pretty easy. Shot making. She is the best shot maker I've ever seen in my life, uh, bar none, and that includes a lot of great players. I mean, she didn't meet a shot or a yardage that she didn't like. She could hit it high, hit it low, hit it left, hit it right, 160-yard bumper to runs from the fairway, all kinds of crazy shots. And uh I think that was part of Mary's charm because if any player tried to look in her bag to see what she was hitting, we had them. And Bruce knows that feeling. You're on a parsery, you want to see what's going on, you kind of sneak a peek in the bag. No, you didn't do that with Mary. And also her name was why? Because she didn't miss very many fairways in her whole career.

Mike Gonzalez 4:01

Her record shows that, yeah. And and you know, uh, I think you'd mentioned this to me, Van, but uh at the 25th uh anniversary of the LPGA, Mary was named among all those greats that uh you would uh conjure up from that era, was named the all-time great T to Green player. So she must have been a shot maker.

Van Costa 4:22

Absolutely, man. That was a great title for her to have, and also it was quite appropriate.

Mike Gonzalez 4:27

Well, good. Well, Van, hey, thanks for making a cameo appearance this morning on For the Good of the Game.

Van Costa 4:33

Well, speaker for all caddies everywhere, thank you. And have a great show and best of luck to the podcast.

Mike Gonzalez 4:40

Thank you. Thanks, Van. So, Mary, as we normally do in telling your story, which is what we're here to do, let's start at the beginning. You grew up uh, first of all, born in Laurel, Mississippi, which I think is just north of Hattiesburg a little bit, but tell us about growing up in Mississippi.

Mary Mills 4:59

Well, I really grew up on the Mississippi Gulf Coast. Um, I did spend a few years in uh, you know, um, I would say close to Laurel, uh, and it was very rural. My grandmother lived there, and my uh stepfather uh on the mother's side was a surgeon in uh World War I. And he came home from the war and um he couldn't operate anymore. He'd been in the trenches, and all the blood that he had as that he saw as a surgeon um made him come home and uh become just a general practitioner. So he and my grandmother decided to buy a hotel that was next to where uh they had a big house, big garden. And uh my father went to work. Um, and this is really the early, I would say, you know, uh 1940s, and of course, World War II uh was was going on. And so that was my beginning, getting on a little tricycle as a two or three-year-old and going up and down the hills in front of the hotel and basically developing my legs for the golf that came later. Just remember that, you know, I I really in my father was in the Navy. Uh, we went to New Orleans for a couple of years. I was still under six years old. And uh when we moved back um to the Mississippi Gulf Coast, it was a big golf uh vacation area. Now, the people that they drew uh were from Chicago, uh, Michigan, all those northern central states, and instead of the golfers going all the way down to Florida, uh they would come to the Mississippi coast, especially like Gulport and Biloxi, where we lived, um uh was was a big um tourist area to speak of. Gulfport was more, I would say, um into commerce, but Biloxi was big uh hotels, um I would say seafood, but the the the people, mostly men, would come down and play lots of golf in the winter.

Mike Gonzalez 7:33

So um I wanted to ask you whether you knew this little factoid. You probably do, but it um on the day you were born, Helen Hicks beat Helen Detweiler by one stroke to win the title holders major championship.

Mary Mills 7:52

Well, I I didn't really uh probably know that, but uh I know that um I got to play, you know, the title holders, which was at the Augusta Country Club, uh, and it was just above in elevation and 50 yards away from Amen Corner, I believe. Yeah, and it was a major for us, but those were such early days with no corporate sponsors that there just wasn't enough money to keep that tournament alive. And so in the middle to later 60s, it just kind of vanished, and it was a shame because you know it was um a really good major, and and you know, you could just go over and uh uh look through the trees, and there there was Augusta National.

Mike Gonzalez 8:44

Sure, sure, yeah. Well, we'll come back to that uh as we will, just talking a little bit about the early history of the LPJ, of which uh Helen Detwiler played an important part. But back to sort of growing up, uh, tell us about how you got introduced to the game of golf.

Mary Mills 9:00

I had uh neighbors who lived a couple of doors down, and I went to school, like I think it was grade school, with their their little daughter, and I was over playing with her one day um in their house, and um, I think um they were putting on the rug, and I said, Oh, this this looks kind of like fun. Can I try to putt? And we putted around, and part of the problem was they had all these slot machines that they had hidden from the sheriff, and we were going around through, and I can't mention the people's name, I might get them in trouble. But they they said, Okay, I see you like putting. How about coming out with us to the country club? And this was, you know, in golfport, and um try to hit some balls with us, and they were members, so I went out, and the first golf ball I hit uh seemed pretty easy because I had played all these other sports, you know, softball, tennis, and and there was a ball just sitting there. I I found it easier. Now, when I went along and really was trying to get into the game, knowing where that ball was going was different.

Bruce Devlin 10:25

That's interesting too, Mary, because uh all of the people that we've uh interviewed over the last 18 months, we find a common thread there that uh most of the great players all played another sport. It's uh quite remarkable, really.

Mary Mills 10:42

Well, I think that they even encourage that today. It's like, you know, you as you grow, um your muscles um have to learn how to be coordinated. And if you get two into one motion, I think um your body's just not ready. And all the best players in the world have uh grown up while their body is still physically growing, playing and and practicing.

Bruce Devlin 11:12

Another sport. Yeah.

Mary Mills 11:13

Yeah. I mean, it's just a remarkable that once you have fully grown, you know, maybe late in your teens or whatever, people really struggle. But if you grow up with your golf muscles actually developing as you grow, um you have them you have that swing for a lifetime.

Mike Gonzalez 11:34

So you putted and started fairly early. Tell us a little bit about how your game developed then. When did you start getting a little bit more serious about it?

Mary Mills 11:42

Well, my father played golf, but he was busy putting together, you know, company, a lumber company there in Gulfport. And uh he said, Mary, this is one sport you really can't, you know, pick up by yourself. You know, you play all these other sports, and by the way, my favorite one, even at a young age, was springboard diving, you know, all timing, rhythm, balance. And so he took me to the pro that was a few blocks away from our house. We lived in Edgewater Park. That was next to a 400-room hotel. And uh Norman Cruz was my first teacher. He was from Kentucky, and um, so I I studied with him uh for a year, maybe a year and a half. And then there was uh one person that uh kind of helped me a little. He he owned the only driving range in Gulfport, Mississippi, because back then you're you're talking about the 50s, you know, early 50s, 1951, 2, 3. Um, most golf courses didn't have driving ranges. You would just throw some balls down from your shag bag and hit them out to a caddy, or either hit them out and go shag the balls, they call it, by yourself. Right. So, you know, it it was uh couple of tips that he gave me. His name was Ballard Beasley, and then um I heard of a great teacher that was going not too far away in Gulf Hills, which was uh a town just um east of Biloxi, and I lived in between Gulfport and Biloxi. So I told my mother um I would like to have a lesson from Johnny Rivolta, and she met him and worked out um a type of arrangement where he was going to teach me um every week while he came down from Chicago to escape those winters at Gulf Hills. And so I worked with him and all the way through high school, and but when Johnny left in the summers, boy, did I struggle. You know, I would get in a fade, not know how to get out of it. Um and and the worst uh that I faded, the worst that it got because I didn't know how to stop it. And so the we didn't have any, of course, digital or videos. So I had Ben Hogan's, you know, Power Golf, and a couple other books, and I would study them by the hour and go out and try what basically his theories were. Now, this is before Five Lessons, and you know that book Five Lessons, uh, I understand and I I knew was a series of five instructional letters that Hogan made um with Life magazine, and they were so wonderful that um they became a book. But I was studying just little pictures of and ideas that I would get out by the hours because I just loved hitting the ball. I I was like Hogan, um, I enjoyed practicing uh almost more than playing at that stage for sure. So that's kind of how I got started. And uh, you know, Rivolta could come down and give me the first lesson of the season and get me right back on track. He he was a master teacher, honestly, and he taught you know a lot of famous golfers.

Mike Gonzalez 15:34

Yeah, and for our listeners who maybe aren't as familiar with Johnny Rivolta, 18 tour wins and one player. The PGA championship back in 1935. He was quite a player, wasn't he? He was.

Mary Mills 15:50

Yeah, and and he taught me the short game too, and and his idea was you know to accelerate and kind of stop low, like in chipping. And you see, a lot of people get in trouble with the short game because they de-accelerate. In other words, they take these big back swings and then they de-accelerate going through. So at a very early age, I had a very sharp, you know, um short game. My putting was great because I had no nerves. I I just putted by feel like all kids. And some days it would rain and I would go in the pro shop and just putt for hours while it was raining uh into a little cup that would return it. So, you know, that was my early beginning. And uh by the age of 14, uh, from the men's like middle white T's, I was shooting in the 70s quite often. So that was the beginning, and Revolta taught me to hit the ball low, uh high, you know, knockdowns, curves. Um, and I was lucky that I had three golf courses that were very different to teach me all these different shots. One was on the ocean, and one was back in the hills, and one was in the bayous.

Bruce Devlin 17:16

Well, yeah, you had some sort of an amateur career as well as a great professional, clearly. You were number one golf player on the men's team at Millsap College. You won the Mississippi State Women's Amateur eight times in a row, starting at age 14. That's pretty remarkable, really, when you think about it. Two-time Golf Coast amateur champion. Boy, what a record. USGA Junior Girls Medalist and uh National Collegiate Championship uh medalist. So some amateur career, Mary.

Mary Mills 17:51

Well, thank you. Um my mother actually thought that maybe I should turn pro because I played so well as a kid, but my grandmother insisted I get a college degree. And also, of course, you know, there was no money out there. But most of my friends I grew up with, or a lot of them, uh, they wanted to play amateur golf because um professional golf for women was not a very good image at that point, you know, and it didn't have any money. So um I decided to go ahead and go to college and play. But you know, it's funny, this is before Title IX, so there was no uh real rules that I couldn't play on the man's team. And as it turned out, uh we started a team when I got to Millsaps because of my amateur record. And um I played first man all four years, and I have a funny little story though. Uh I was, you know, getting ready to get beat so that one of my uh male, you know, um team members was gonna be first man for the next week. And we were on a par five there in um Jackson, Mississippi at Millsaps, and uh a big um, it wasn't State Street, but it was something right next to a par five on the left side. I got up and snapped hooked my my ball right into the main road with all this traffic. And I think at that point I was two down to one of my guys, and it hit a bus, a big you know, bus. It jumped and rolled, rolled, rolled towards the green of the par five and jumped onto the fringe. I went up and I chipped it in for an albatross.

Bruce Devlin 19:53

That is something.

Mary Mills 19:56

And so that was something I never lived down. That was funny.

Mike Gonzalez 20:01

You you were not gonna relinquish that number one spot, were you?

Mary Mills 20:06

Well, I I just felt like you know, golf is sometimes a game of luck, and it was just on my side that day. Yeah, sure was they were really um uh very supportive, you know. They they uh were behind me a hundred percent. And I we we played schools like Ole Miss, um Delta State, Slippery Rock up in Pennsylvania. I mean, they would come down, and uh when I got on the T, those boys would shake in their boots because they basically had nothing to win and everything to lose.

Bruce Devlin 20:44

Yeah. Letting a young lady beat them all the time.

Mary Mills 20:49

I know. Are you gonna let a little old girl like that beat you?

Mike Gonzalez 20:55

You can just hear the talk now. But Mary, uh uh one thing we sort of skipped over, I want to make sure you have a chance to talk about uh uh you mentioned Ben Hogan earlier, but uh you were able at a fairly young age to not only meet him, but meet another one of golf's greats.

Mary Mills 21:13

Yes. Um, you know, I want to tell you before that uh meeting Bobby Jones, who you're referring to, um, my neighbors across the street who got me started um said, let's go see a movie because the story of Ben Hogan, Follow the Sun, with Glenn Ford had just come out when I uh went to hit a few golf balls. I saw that movie and it was so good as an 11 year old. I told my mother, I want to be a pro one day. And so I had Hogan as my hero from almost day one. And then at 14, uh I had just won, I think, my state amateur, went to the Southern amateur up at Birmingham, Alabama. And uh Bobby Jones uh was there uh and he they had just uh published his book. Um and after I uh finished my round, the press took me up to meet him, and of course he was in the wheelchair, and he looked very sad, but once he started talking with me, um, you know, we we had a rapport, and uh he had been another one of my childhood heroes because women really weren't that popular, so Hogan and Jones were were really instrumental. I would read all the history books about Bobby Jones' record, and so before I got ready to leave after talking with him quite a few minutes, he signed a book to me and he said, Mary, you know, I can see uh from your record and what the press tells me that I predict you will become a national champion one day. So I never forgot that, you know, and it helped me win my first U.S. Open and first LPGA type of tournament.

Mike Gonzalez 23:15

Yeah, you you went on to represent Ben Hogan's company, didn't you, in your career at some point?

Mary Mills 23:21

Yes. Um I was struggling with um my equipment. I'd been playing the Walter Hagen Irons most of my life. And um, you know, I I finally in the I think it was probably either the late 60s or early 70s, uh became the first woman really of about four or five more to join the staff. You know, it was all male at that time. And um, you know, I I got to go in and uh really talk to Hogan, and I had already met him after I won my US Open. We met in New York at the Metropolitan Sports Writers Awards, sat right together and really chatted. And I could tell, you know, I was a little uptight as a 23-old year old. And so he made a real effort to put me at ease, and we we really got along well and chatted well. So once I went in to see if I could become, you know, on the staff member of the Hogan Company, um, he was always very cordial. And I saw him several times as part of the staff. I went out to Shady Oaks and uh had dinner uh with him, but you know, he was uh uh uh very very easy with women and very prickly with men. You know, somehow uh he didn't mind being vulnerable with women, you know. It didn't seem to bother uh his his competitive ego.

Bruce Devlin 25:04

He was uh I'm not sure Mary knows, but I spent a lot of time playing with Mr. Hogan from 62 to 69 when he when he retired, but I've always said that he's one of the nicest men that I ever met. Uh uh I think I think the press made him a little prickly with the men rather than the men themselves.

Mary Mills 25:25

Right. That would make sense because I didn't see ever that side of him. I I saw a side where he demanded uh, you know, um loyalty. Um heard those stories, you know, uh how Gary Player called up and said, Oh, Mr. Hogan, I'd love to come over and uh study with you and have some lessons. And he said, uh, you know, Mr. Player, who who do you work for? And he said, uh, I work for Dunlop. And Hogan said, Well, I would suggest you call up Mr. Dunlop and go have a lesson with him. And so Hogan said he hung up the phone and and never heard from him yet. Now, I don't know if that was really a true story, but you know, it it's there's so many Hogan stories in, you know, in there, Bruce.

Bruce Devlin 26:26

I mean Yeah, oh yeah, a lot of them. Yeah, that one of the greatest ones I heard, well, and I'm sure everybody's heard it, is he was playing in a golf tour and then he gets to the par three, and and his partner makes a hole in one, and he'd he had put it on the green and then hold it out for two, and they walk into the next tea. He said, You know, that's the first time I've ever birdied that hole.

Mike Gonzalez 26:51

Oh, by the way, how did you do?

Bruce Devlin 26:53

Yeah, how do you his partner only made it one, but you know, there's lots of stories about him, no doubt about it. So, Mary, you you turned uh pro when you were 22 in 1962, right? And then tell me about that uh first win in 1963.

Mary Mills 27:11

Well, you know, it it's funny that um you talk about Hogan uh being like so zeroed in, and I think that was part of my personality. Um somehow reading all the history and meeting, you know, Bobby Jones and and um when I um I think uh approached Cincinnati uh at Kenwood Country Club, I I had a very calm feeling. My game was coming together, um my putting was good, um, the big shots were there. I didn't have to think any mechanics. And um I led I I think the feel on the first morning it was early, maybe you know, for back then nine o'clock was early, um, and came in and I can't remember what I shot. It was something like a 71 because I I led every round. But it was an unusual tournament in that we only had three days because we were gonna play 36, you know, on the last day. So I was leading and I didn't think, you know, I was excited uh and glad that you know the press was gonna let the people back home know I was leading the open, but I didn't get too nervous. Uh, but by the end of the second round, I was leading again. And having to go to sleep on the lead, that's you know, not really good. After a few days, you start really trying to project. You don't mean to, but you do. It's hard not to. Um, but I was so thankful that I could get it over in one day with 36 souls, and so we were having an unusual eclipse of the sun that day, and I looked at it as really um a good omen for me. And I also remembered that Bobby Jones said, you know, I predict you're gonna be a national champion, so I thought, well, maybe I should just kind of get out of my way and let it happen. And that's basically in a nutshell what did happen.

Mike Gonzalez 29:24

Yeah.

Bruce Devlin 29:25

What a great victory.

Mike Gonzalez 29:27

Yeah, you were you were quite young, obviously. You're coming out of the box. You just turned pro the year before you win your first event, which happens to be a major, at the U.S. Women's Open at Kenwood uh Country Club in Ohio. Uh, this was by three ultimately over Sandra Haney and Louise Suggs, but you came into the event uh already as a young 23-year-old with some back issues, didn't you?

Mary Mills 29:52

Um not really. You know, I I really didn't have a lot of back issues until a little later. Uh, because I I have a, for a woman, a long trunk, a long spine, and uh my swing, which, you know, uh was very rotary, actually. It wasn't the big reverse C at the end of my finish, but it put a lot of stress on my lower lumbar. Um, and you know, when when I played, um, I had to to, you know, make sure that I was careful with the back or it it would it would hurt sometime. But, you know, um it really was when I was taking a few lessons uh from Tommy Armour one morning. I picked up my golf clubs out of the trunk with my legs straight and probably tore some connective tissue. And so that's when the real problem started. And I'm just trying to think back, you know, what year that was. It was, I think, after I actually won the open. And but the very next year I won the PGA championship. So I was young and the body was healing. But the big thing was that I was playing such good golf because my nerves and my putting were good. You know, I hadn't hadten the wear and tear uh of the nerves. Uh, and so I was such a good ball striker in, I would say, a hot and cold putter. And but when my putter was going with my ball striking, I I could, you know, win some tournaments.

Mike Gonzalez 31:33

Well, let's talk a little bit about let's talk a little bit about good golf here in this 1963 U.S. Women's Open because in the first round, you mentioned shooting 71. Uh you remember three putting the last hole to shoot that 71 in the first round?

Mary Mills 31:50

You know, I really don't remember a lot of details except the last three holes of the tournament. It it just uh I was uh really kind of uh in the zone uh so much that uh I don't recall, you know, except a few holds out there. But I actually got invited back 50 years later uh as an anniversary for winning the open in Cincinnati. And uh uh playing a few holds on the back nine, I thought, you know, when I played, this course seemed so easy. That was really a a different perspective. So no, I don't remember the the exact thing. I just knew when I walked to 18, walked up there, um, I thought I had to make a downhill 12-foot slippery putt uh to maybe beat Sandra Haney because we didn't really have uh good leaderboards and things, and this was the USGA, not even the LPGA. Um and so, you know, I I made the putt and just knew by then that I had beaten Louise and the field. But you know, even growing up, I was a much better metal player uh than match player. Uh match play didn't really fit my personality. I didn't enjoy beating a person. I enjoyed beating old man parr, like Bobby Jones always said, and so that was my forte. And so that's how I was medalist in a lot of junior events, a lot of amateur events, but when it came to the Mississippi state, um I played great golf, usually under par when I started winning. And the competition was not the big national competition of you know, knocking heads with people like Joanne Carner. I mean, that was tough competition. So uh when I turned pro, um, I was glad that it was metal play instead of match play.

Mike Gonzalez 34:09

Yeah, well, just to refresh your memory, uh, and and this is assuming the press clippings that we read are were all accurate and correct, that three putt uh on the last hole of the first round uh uh for the 71 uh caused you to miss the course record by just one shot. Do you remember what you did the next day?

Mary Mills 34:30

I think I had a 70, maybe. You did, uh huh.

Mike Gonzalez 34:34

You broke the course record the next day.

Mary Mills 34:36

You know, and I wasn't even into course records. Uh that didn't much to me. Um winning the tournament, of course, uh meant a lot, but uh I tried to just relax and not put a lot of pressure on myself. And I uh somebody had me recall the other day that uh Betty Jameson, a good friend of mine, said, let's go out to the Cincinnati um art museum. And so I think I did that on, you know, maybe after my first or second round. Um, you know, when you get in that position, and I think Bruce can attest to this, you know, it is a fine line between getting too excited and not keyed up enough. There is that balance there that you want.

Bruce Devlin 35:27

There's no question about that, Mary. Uh, the unfortunate part for me was I never got to experience what you did by winning a major championship. Came close a lot of times, but never could quite get there. So uh what what a career. You've had you've had a wonderful career.

Mary Mills 35:44

Well, thank you.

Mike Gonzalez 35:45

So, Mary, in that open, uh Althea Gibson became the first African American to play in the U.S. Open at age 35. Uh, you went up against her, too, I think later, maybe in your career, could have been in a playoff, which we'll talk about. Um, and uh Mickey Wright had to take this open off. I guess you had some dental work, uh, took the took the week off, and then came back and won it the next year, huh?

Mary Mills 36:11

Right. So I I, you know, um didn't really pay much attention because it wasn't an LPGA event. It was, you know, a big tournament where good amateurs were coming. Uh, I just was was trying to play golf. And um so, you know, um I was trying to just um stay in that zone in that particular tournament.

Mike Gonzalez 36:36

Thank you for listening to another episode of For the Good of the Game. And please, wherever you listen to your podcast on Apple and Spotify, if you like what you hear, please subscribe, spread the word, and tell your friends until we tee it up again for the good of the game. So long, everybody.

Intro Music 37:01

It went smack down the fairway. Just split off line. It had it for two, but it must offline. Mac headed as long as you're still in the stage, you're okay.