Peter Dawson - Part 4 (Open Championship History & Highlights)

Intro Music 0:06

It went straight down the middle. It went straight down the middle. Then it started to be able to do it.

Mike Gonzalez 0:15

So there were there were 13 open venues during your time as secretary, had been seven in Scotland, six in England, and then Port Rush was added as the 14th.

Peter Dawson 0:26

Well, Port Rush had been the open venue in 1951.

Mike Gonzalez 0:30

Oh, okay. Okay.

Peter Dawson 0:31

When Max Faulkner won. And so we we went back there. Not in my time. I did the agreement with with uh Port Rush and Northern Ireland government for and went back in 2019 very successfully. And uh only Ireland could produce an Irish winner, couldn't they, when they when they go back back to our Shane Lowry? But it's a great course, Port Rush. And there was quite a lot of work to do to move spectators around it. It was a pretty pretty rough area safely. But that was successfully done. And uh it was one of the best opens we've ever had, I think, commercially. Yeah, yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 1:13

Who was the Irishman that uh had the famous incident with the ball in the bottle at St. George's during the Open Championship and wasn't sure of the rule, decided to play the ball off the bottle.

Peter Dawson 1:26

Was that Harry Bradshaw?

Mike Gonzalez 1:29

Might have been. Not sure. We've talked about it maybe with Padrig, but uh might have been. And he wasn't quite sure of the rule, and I think he ended up uh maybe losing in a playoff or something, as I recall.

Peter Dawson 1:41

Everything happens in golf. You need a rule for everything, and uh you can't prescribe it all. But these stories are just you know, just terrific, aren't they?

Mike Gonzalez 1:51

Yeah. Now you've got a few Claret Jugg stories.

Peter Dawson 1:56

Well, um some of my favorite stories are the The Engraver, um, which as as secretary or chief executive of the RNA, one forms a very close relationship with the engraver. Because um there's always great pressure at the end of an open to get on with the presentation ceremony because TV doesn't want to wait too long and so on. So when to unleash the engraver is uh always a pressure point in in one's life. And when I got first of all, if you go back in time, back in the day, it was always the player's responsibility to bring the claret jug back engraved for the following year. There wasn't an engraver. And uh Fred Daly, famously back in the 1940s, um brought his back engraved Holy Lake instead of Hoy Lake. And and Holy Lake sits on the claret jug to this day that the the players get. Um De Vincenzo, uh after he won in 67, came back in 68 without having had the claret jug engraved. And so uh an engraver had to be quickly found to do that, and that was really the start of the engraver, although it didn't start for two or three years afterward. And when I got to the RA, Alex Harvey, who was the original engraver, was still doing it. And Alex was getting quite elderly, and I was a little bit worried, a love lovely man, and uh I was getting a little bit worried about him disappearing on me, as it were, at a crucial time. And uh I went on a search for a new stand-in engraver in case we needed one and found one. But uh when I got back to the RA, there was uh there was um Alex in the trophy room engraving the club trophies with someone else helping him. And I said, Who's this guy helping Alex? And he said, Oh, that's his son, Gary Harvey. And Gary Harvey is a professional golfer, and when he won the British Boys' Championship, the boys' championship way back, he engraved his own trophy, which I think pretty impressive age 17. Anyway, Alex sadly did pass away, and and Gary took over and has done it to this day. Yeah, and uh I never took too many risks in on unleashing the engrave. But you can always put the venue on and so many strokes without filling in the number and so on. But even when Tiger was miles ahead, I didn't take the chance. Because you never know, there might be a scorecard infringement or something.

Mike Gonzalez 4:38

Yeah, so in 99 with Sir Michael's last open, you would have been there. And uh famously he did not unleash Alex to put Van Develd on the table. No, he didn't. No, no, thank goodness. Well, I I would encourage our listeners to uh just uh you know do a Google search on the claret jug and and uh zoom in on some of the various photos of the uh of the claret jug, and you'll notice some of the things that Peter has mentioned. One of the ones that stand out to me is when Gary Plair won in 1959, uh he chose a rather large font size for his name and venue that year.

Peter Dawson 5:20

Well, G G Plair doesn't go as many as many letters as M. Kalkovec yet. So yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 5:27

Well, interestingly enough, uh when Bruce and I uh chatted with him, of course, he and Gary go way back for a lot of years, and and uh uh as we talked about that 59 championship, then I think uh Bruce, you probably piped in about Kel Nagel uh winning on at the old course the year after, 1960. And as good a mind as Gary is with his golf history, he could not recall the fact that Kel Nagel was the guy that won it after him.

Peter Dawson 5:54

Yeah, won the Centenary Open. Right.

Mike Gonzalez 5:57

At St.

Peter Dawson 5:57

Andrews, yeah, yeah. Yeah beat Arnold Palmer by one. Arnold Arnold had won the Masters and the U.S. Open already that year. And came to St. Andrews on the on the Grand Slam. Yeah, and I think lost by just a shock to Cal.

Mike Gonzalez 6:15

Yeah.

Peter Dawson 6:16

Um amazing, amazing.

Mike Gonzalez 6:20

You oversaw some wonderful open championships, you know, as you kind of ticked down the list from 2000 to 2015. Of course, you you opened with a bang at the old course in 2000.

Peter Dawson 6:31

With Tiger Woods. Yeah. Yes, that was uh Tiger was in his pomp, wasn't he? He was taking the world of golf by storm and was playing, I think, the most dominant golf he he played in his whole his whole career. And that's difficult to say, but he was really playing wonderful golf. And uh he won the open. I remember at the closing ceremony when he was making his speech, he said how pleased he was to have won the British Open. And he looked across at me and said, Sorry, the Open Championship. You know your stuff, Tiger. You know your stuff.

Mike Gonzalez 7:06

Well, you know, you look at you look at his year, of course. Uh uh, how does he not win the Masters VJ won that year? But then you look at uh Pebble Beach U.S. Open, minus 12. I don't know if it's still a record, it was at the time, all course, minus 19 at the time, a record, maybe not anymore, and then goes to Valhalla, wins a PGA 1800, then a record.

Peter Dawson 7:27

Yeah, yeah. Astonishing. Yeah, quite astonishing. And uh I've always I've always enjoyed a good relationship with Tiger, I'm I'm honored to say. And uh very sad that uh these uh physical issues have uh have held him back so much latterly, but uh what a player. What a player.

Mike Gonzalez 7:50

You saw him win again uh during your tenure, both at the old course in 05 and in Litham at in 06, but uh or rather Hoylake at Hoy Lake at 06. What are some of the other favorite opens during your time as secretary?

Peter Dawson 8:03

Well, you know, I can honestly say that I thoroughly enjoyed them all. And people ask me, you know, which uh which course do you like the best? And they and they all have their their plus points, you know, St Andrews for Atmosphere, Carnousty's so difficult, Turnbury for Views, Muirfield for what you see is what you get, Grandeur of Burkdale and so on. You know, they all have their their magic. And uh we we've had a huge variety of people win. Uh and uh they've all been equally pleased and proud to have done it. It's been great to see. And the the the spectators at the open I I well I would say this, wouldn't I? But I I honestly believe they're second to none in golf. They're very knowledgeable, they know when to make a noise and know when not to make a noise, and and appreciate the history of the championship and what the players are trying to do, and appreciate the efforts of the qualifiers and so on, and all good. Um I I I just can't I keep going back to Tony Jacqueline's win as my favorite open moment, but that was long before my time in the championship. But uh I think seeing Tiger and his pomp and putting together that past champions event, the four-hole event for the first time in 2000, and it being my first open as secretary, um, I think that has to be the best one for me.

Mike Gonzalez 9:32

Yeah, well, tell us about that four-hole event because uh I mean you had guys like Sam Sneed there, right?

Peter Dawson 9:37

We did. Um I I it was it was 2000, it was the Millennium Open. What are we going to do that's a bit special? And we came up with this idea of a past champions event, and Michael Banalek said to me, you know, I don't think this is a good idea. They won't come, you know, they won't come if they're not playing in the open proper. And I said, Well, I'd like to try it. And we we got, I think, 22 out of 27 living champions at the time. Sneed was there, DiVincenzo was there, uh, all these famous guys, Peter Thompson, uh, and so on. And uh beautiful, beautiful weather. And we had 38,000 people lining up around these four holes, uh, which was which was terrific. Um and the whole thing went off a treat and they they all enjoyed it. When are we gonna do it again? And uh we've done it at St. Andrew's every time. One of my great disappointments was to actually have to call it off at St Andrew's in 2015, was it? When or was it 2010? When the weather was so bad that we couldn't we couldn't dare to do it. I didn't want to be the guy who gave De Vincenzo pneumonia. He was the most disappointed by the fact it was called off. Uh but yeah, that's I think the crowds have loved that. I remember when when uh they were all announced on the T and Sevi got the biggest cheer in 2000, I remember. And uh I don't know if that would have been the case if Arnold had been there. He was one of the ones that that couldn't come. But uh they all they all had great affections for the past championship.

Mike Gonzalez 11:15

Well, Bruce, fellow Aussie Peter Thompson, five-time open winner, and uh I remember you describing his watching his game as rather boring.

Bruce Devlin 11:27

It was. It was down the fairway on the green couple, but just uh quite he was he really was quite a wonderful player.

Peter Dawson 11:38

Thompson fired his rifle one more time.

Bruce Devlin 11:42

Yeah, that's a great play. Yeah, he was like a machine, wasn't he, Bruce? Yeah, he was uh he was a great player. Great player.

Mike Gonzalez 11:50

Peter, I've asked Bruce this before. Uh well, first of all, uh Bruce, you might just describe as a as an Aussie versus an American at uh at how revered uh the British Open was back in in your day for your fellow worldwide players.

Bruce Devlin 12:07

Oh no, no question about it. Um I think I think anybody outside of the United States would rather have won the British Open or now the Open Championship than they would the US Open. Uh I guess that's heritage more than anything else, you know. Uh but but that was always the the one that that we wanted to win was uh was the British Open.

Peter Dawson 12:35

Yeah, we all grew up, didn't we? Uh holding six footers on the practice green, pretending it was to be open champion for the page.

Bruce Devlin 12:41

For the open championship, yeah, right.

Peter Dawson 12:44

Yeah. Yeah. I think I've just about decided that I'm never going to win it now, so to give it up.

Bruce Devlin 12:52

You've come to that r realization, huh?

Peter Dawson 12:56

Yes, I have. I have. There's a great story about replica claret jugs that at one time were for sale from one of the premier jewelers in Britain. I can't just remember which one it was, and they were only for sale to past champions. And uh Mary Thompson, Peter's wife, was in this shop and looking at these, and the shop assistant came up and said, Oh, I'm sorry, madam, these are only for past champions. And she said faith, she said famously, well, in that case, I have five of them.

Mike Gonzalez 13:27

Yeah, that's right. Oh, well, uh I've asked this question of Bruce before, so I don't need to ask again because I think he'd probably trade all of his PGA tour victories for an open championship. So, as I alluded to at our open, uh, you were privileged enough for a number of years to utter some of the most famous words in golf. If you would do us the pleasure of introducing him, perhaps, as you would uh the winner.

Peter Dawson 14:01

And ladies and gentlemen, with a score of 284, the winner of the gold medal and the champion golfer of the year is Bruce Devlin.

Bruce Devlin 14:12

That would have been nice to have heard that.

Peter Dawson 14:15

And do you know I never knew until I got there if I was gonna say if I was gonna go high or low at the when I got to the name.

Bruce Devlin 14:24

Yeah.

Peter Dawson 14:25

I never knew if I was gonna say, well, the score of 279, the winner of the gold medal of the champion golf year is Tiger Woods, or winner of the gold medal of the champion golf year is Tiger Woods. I never knew of which I was gonna do until I done it.

Mike Gonzalez 14:39

Or you could have gone uh on the T, Tiger Woods.

Peter Dawson 14:44

Ivor Robson.

Mike Gonzalez 14:45

Yeah, he was he was uh he was world famous, God rest his soul. Um but there was a question, wasn't there, that uh uh you had to almost go back and look at videos on the wording, the exact wording of uh was it of the year or for the year?

Peter Dawson 15:02

Well, it was interesting this because um I I can't remember just how it came up, first of all, but I wasn't sure if I was to say champion golfer of the year or champion golfer for the year. So I asked Michael Banalek, my predecessor, this question. He said, Oh, of the year. I always said of the year. So we played back the videos of all his 16 opens, and eight times he said of, and eight times he said four. And then we had a uh a professor of English from Toronto University writing about it, and he thought it certainly should be off. And uh anyway, we eventually used off. But I do think you could find one recording of me out of my 16 saying four by mistake. I can't remember which one it was. Uh so it's champion golfer of the year.

Mike Gonzalez 15:55

Did you ever have a little uh uh cue card just handy just in case, or or was it always just right off the top?

Peter Dawson 16:02

Well, I always had this this horrible thought that I might get the score wrong, even though it was on the scoreboard up above. And uh I I had a little template and a plastic wallet with me, so uh just in case.

Bruce Devlin 16:15

But uh I didn't need it.

Peter Dawson 16:17

But what a thrill it was to do it. And and the the the champions and the crowd would always go mad, and the champion would come out, and it was a great moment. And I think I think always think one of the great photographs is in after the ceremony in the locker room when the champion is looking at the claret jug and seeing all those names that that his has just been added to quite a time. It's very special.

Mike Gonzalez 16:41

It sure is. Uh so uh, you know, a lot of Americans would think it'd be pretty cool to uh occupy the Oval Office, but I must say uh that office of the secretary's overlooking uh the start and the end of the old course is pretty special.

Peter Dawson 16:58

Well, it is. I've had many captains of industry come through the office uh offering to trade.

Bruce Devlin 17:03

Yeah, I'll bet you have uh with me.

Peter Dawson 17:05

And uh I remember when I first started there, there was no air conditioning in the clubhouse at all. And so in the summertime you had to leave the door to the balcony open. So you one was working away and hit listening to people hit golf balls off the first tee is very frustrating at the time. And uh yeah, it's uh it's a very special place, very special office, and uh thrilled to have occupied it.

Mike Gonzalez 17:31

Yeah, so uh Martin Slumbers was selected uh to replace you, and uh boom. Uh next thing you know, uh uh he's ending his term this year already, and uh they've got a new fellow named.

Peter Dawson 17:47

Well, interestingly, I I did 16 years, and each of my three predecessors, for no connected reason, did 16 years as well. Yeah uh Michael Benalek, uh Keith Mackenzie, and uh Brigadier Brickman all did 16 years, as did I, for no connected reason. Martin has been there, what, nine or ten, and uh he's produced a lot of improvements to things, and he thinks his time is over, so he's retiring. And we have a new man coming on, I think, in about a month's time.

Mike Gonzalez 18:16

Yeah, yeah. Uh Mark Darbin. Mark Darbin.

Peter Dawson 18:19

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 18:20

Uh Martin was probably the first non-member in the role, is that right?

Peter Dawson 18:25

Gosh, I don't I'm not sure I know the answer to that. Um, whether whether Keith was a member, Michael Banalek was a member for sure. I don't know for sure prior to all of that. Okay. Okay. For certain, I'm afraid. That's one I'll have to research and let's say.

Mike Gonzalez 18:40

Yeah, I think it's just more a matter of perspective that you bring into the job and an appreciation for you know the history of not only the private club, but also then, you know, 2004 and and and after an appreciation for the the bifurcated structure.

Peter Dawson 18:56

Yeah, it certainly helped me having been a member and and more specifically being a committee member as well before got the job. That that that cut down my my learning process quite a bit because I already had covered a lot of that ground. And I was fortunate to to know quite a number of the members as well prior to prior to getting the secretary job. Um so all of those things helped me fast track into the role, uh, which was great.

Mike Gonzalez 19:23

At the time you decided to step aside, did you think, well, 16 years seems to be a good number?

Peter Dawson 19:29

No, I didn't specifically, and you know, it's funny. Um I think you know when it's time, at least you should know when it's time to go. And uh there were one or two things going on that I let go by me, and I thought five, six years ago I wouldn't have let that go by me. And uh I thought, yeah, that's it. And I picked my time and had a lovely send-off. And uh yeah, and the the new guard has has has moved the whole thing on as the next new guard will again, I'm sure.

Mike Gonzalez 20:01

Yeah, well you you you had you had stayed involved with golf course from from 99 forward. Uh you had been involved with the International Golf Federation eventually as its president. Uh uh subsequently uh succeeded by Annika Sornstom, but uh in addition to overseeing uh the uh re-emergence of golf in the Olympics, uh what were some of the other uh responsibilities in that particular role?

Peter Dawson 20:27

Oh, very few, actually. It was mainly Olympic golf and and making sure one one of the great things that it did do was um it ensured that countries that didn't have a national golf federation they had to create one to be part of the Olympic process and all of that. So I think there were about thirty-some new international national federations created in countries that didn't have a golf organization at all, which I think was the one of the main uh benefits of the the International Golf Federation. And I did retire from that before the Tokyo Olympics, so it's been a few years now when uh Annika came in. But I'm still chairing the official World Golf Ranking.

unknown 21:13

Right.

Mike Gonzalez 21:14

Yeah. So when you took on that role, you probably figured, uh, this will be a nice quiet deal. I don't want to deal with the press, not quiet, be able to stay under the radar.

Peter Dawson 21:23

Well, I had I had been a member of the board of it since I started at the RNA job, because the RNA is one of the bodies that that sits on the board. But I hadn't Michael Banalek was the chairman, and he did ask me to take over, and he said, Oh, just get just a couple of meetings a year, hardly anything to do, just take this on with you. So I I accepted the hospital pass. And uh yeah, it's been a it's been a busy time with that, but that's a whole other story.

Mike Gonzalez 21:52

Well, it it is, and and uh uh as as we've said on this program, this has been for uh almost a hundred episodes a live free zone. Because we know that in 50 to 100 years people probably won't even remember what Lib was necessarily. But I guess what I'd say about that is the requirements for world golf ranking points are quite well known.

Peter Dawson 22:15

Yes, I I I think um I just just say one thing. Uh the the the world the the the board of the world ranking behaved, in my view, absolutely appropriately and fairly to all of the other tours that were in the ranking system. But uh golf is not in a good place for in that area at the moment. And uh I think more to come, at least I certainly hope so.

Mike Gonzalez 22:42

Yeah, I think what's you know what's going on in in men's professional golf probably creates some upper opportunities for others, like the ladies' game, for example.

Peter Dawson 22:51

Yes, yes. Well, the ladies' game has been moving forward, as we all know. We can all perhaps relate to it more easily as amateurs.

Bruce Devlin 22:59

Yes.

Peter Dawson 23:00

Um, play beautifully, more more at our length, as it were. And uh and yeah, it's it's coming on and and we'll continue to do so. Uh some great stars uh in that area, and uh every year it gets stronger.

Mike Gonzalez 23:14

Something to be said about seeing more two, three, and four irons being played into greens.

Peter Dawson 23:19

Well, there is, yeah. I think I think that's absolutely true. You can see golf courses being played as they were designed to be played.

Bruce Devlin 23:26

Yeah.

Peter Dawson 23:27

And uh that that is good.

Mike Gonzalez 23:29

You had a role at the Old Course Hotel, so you must have known Mr. Kohler.

Peter Dawson 23:34

I did. Uh uh a great friend of ours, um, kind, generous man, running a very successful company, loved St. Andrews uh and everything about it, everything it stood for. Was totally thrilled when he became an RNA member. I don't I I had the pleasure of ringing him up to tell him that he wouldn't believe me. So I told him. And his one of his biggest thrills was to win the Brazil Not Cup at the autumn meeting of Wimbles. Oh my um, and he still had that still got pride of place in Colo, Wisconsin. That replica. And sadly he passed away. And uh his son David is just as uh enthusiastic about St. Andrews as his father was, which is wonderful.

Mike Gonzalez 24:24

Yeah. Well, listen, before we we we wind up, uh maybe uh just kind of give us an update on uh on uh what you're up to these days. Are you able to play more golf now that you've gotten some of these other duties behind you?

Peter Dawson 24:37

Yes, I'm playing a bit more golf. Um it's at various degrees of ineptitude. Um but uh now and again we get a good shot away and enjoy it. My long game, I'm still driving the ball pretty well. My iron play is deteriorated, and I I have some desperate days with the putter, but I've just about worked that out this morning, I think. So we'll see what the next one brings. So I'm playing a bit more golf. I do some fly fishing uh for salmon in Scottish Rivers, but uh that's become a uh a more difficult activity is that the the number of fish in the rivers is nowhere near what they used to be, and with with one or two river exceptions, but um no one seems to know what the problem is, but we enjoy the days out in the peace and serenity of a flowing water, which is which is great fun. And uh yeah, I just find the days go by and I enjoy life and uh look always look forward to seeing my kids and my grandkids, and my my wife and I are are happy in St. Andrews. That's a brand who wouldn't be really that's right.

Mike Gonzalez 25:44

Oh, it's a lovely town. Uh Bruce, uh uh he's been awarded a couple of titles that uh as a Commonwealth member you're quite familiar with.

Bruce Devlin 25:53

That's right. Awarded the Officer of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire in 2015, and then awarded the commander of the most excellent order of the British Empire in 2021. Quite a quite an achievement there, Peter.

Peter Dawson 26:11

Yes, uh OBE for short, the first one, which uh many people entitled Other Buggers Efforts. Other buggers and C CBE. I hadn't heard this before, but a friend of mine wrote in saying, CBE, eh? Can't break 80. I thought that was quite good as well. But uh those are those are uh uh privileges to have, but the result of team efforts, to be honest with you. Of course it is. It's it's nice to see that the game of golf was recognized in the in the process, which is great.

Mike Gonzalez 26:47

Yeah. Well, as we wind down, uh I don't know if you know this, but we typically ask our guests three closing questions, and so it's sort of interesting after all these interviews to to hear the varying uh answers that we get. And uh as we ask the questions, I always defer to the elder statesman on the podcast team, and so I give Mr. Devlin the T.

Bruce Devlin 27:10

Yeah. Uh it's a little it's a little bit different talking to uh Peter about this, but so Peter, the question is if uh you knew what you now know at your age when you were twenty four, what would you have done differently?

Peter Dawson 27:32

I think I would uh going back to never having had a plan, I think I might have tried to have a few more plans and let let things happen to me in a less random manner. Although I've I've been lucky that the the random manner has worked reasonably well. Uh and I think I think I'd have worked a bit harder in in some times in my life as well.

Bruce Devlin 27:53

Yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 27:54

All right, so we'll go with uh we'll go with question number two, which uh doesn't necessarily have to be on the golf course. We're gonna give you one mulligan, could be a golf shot, could be uh a redo in life. Uh where would you take it?

Peter Dawson 28:06

Well, I have to just on the mulligan issue, I have to say that uh I can never have another mulligan because I've only ever had one and I had a hole in one with it. So I can never take another mulligan.

Mike Gonzalez 28:18

Oh my god.

Peter Dawson 28:20

That's actually true, remarkable. Um anyway, the question was if I had a mulligan, ah goodness. I think I'd have taken my three-foot putt again, um which I missed to lose my Forson's match in the 1968 university match against Oxford. I think I'd have taken that one again. Okay. At Royal Port Call.

Mike Gonzalez 28:49

At Porth Call, where the wind always blows.

Peter Dawson 28:52

Yeah, it was howling as well. Howling. Up the against at the last. And uh it's a sad story. And I I wouldn't want you to think I think about it all the time, but most days not at all.

Bruce Devlin 29:06

It still haunts you. Okay, Peter. Last question. How would you like to be remembered?

Peter Dawson 29:24

I think I'd like to be remembered as uh someone whose company people enjoyed. And who'd maybe done a little bit of good for golf along the way.

Bruce Devlin 29:40

Well you certainly have done that, sir, and what a pleasure it has been to have you with us today, recalling all the things that you've done for this wonderful game of golf, and we thank you for your time.

Peter Dawson 29:54

Well, thank you. Golf people are by and large terrific people, and uh doing good things for them is a is a motivation in itself. And uh I've enjoyed this uh our discussion, and thank you all. Thank you both for your time.

Mike Gonzalez 30:10

Thank you, Peter. It's uh great to get your story chronicled uh for the good of the game.

Peter Dawson 30:15

Thank you, thank you. It's my pleasure to have been with you.

Mike Gonzalez 30:19

Thank you for listening to another episode of For the Good of the Game. And please, wherever you listen to your podcast on Apple and Spotify, if you like what you hear, please subscribe, spread the word, and tell your friends until we tee it up again for the good of the game. So long, everybody.