Sally Little - Part 2 (The Majors and Career Wins)

Bruce Devlin 0:16

Great memories, and you know, uh I have a great memory for nineteen seventy-nine for Sally Little. She won three times. One at Bentry Classic, the Bath Classic in Plymouth, and the Columbia Savings Classic. Again, beating Nancy Lopez, Pat Bradley, and Judy Rankin. So what a year that was.

Sally Little 0:39

Those were the days. That's when I could play, Bruce. Yeah. I remember Hollis too. Hollis Stacey's also amazing golfer. And uh she used to get the stone needle with me because when I would throw one of those loan numbers at them, and she was leading the diner um the year 1982. She was leading, and I I think I was two under playing the final round, and she was eight under. Big numbers. She was low. And I just had one of those rounds that you turn in 30-31, and I was in front of her, and I just kept going, and I ended up beating the field basically by a lot. And she in the in the interview room, she goes, All I ever saw was her backside. That's what I saw was Little's backside.

Mike Gonzalez 1:47

She that was 1982 when you finished with a final round of 64 to win that event by three over Hollis and Sandra Haney. And you won it, unfortunately, the year before it became a major.

Sally Little 2:03

How about that? Yeah. In fact, um, they say I would have been in the Hall of Fame if I'd won that one, which I'm not in the um LPGA Hall of Fame.

Mike Gonzalez 2:14

Help us with that one, Sally, in terms of the decision process that that determined the line of demarcation being 1983 instead of 1982 or some other date.

Sally Little 2:28

Well, um the the Dinoshore was such a historical tournament from the very beginning, number one with the purse increase with uh Colgate. And it it felt like our major, and it wasn't. And we pushed for that because at the time we didn't have a third major. We didn't the British Open was not a major at the time. So we had the LPGA, the US Um Open, and so so the Canadian wasn't even a major. So we just had two. So we pushed and then became the Canadian, but we always felt that the Dinosaur was our masters. If you look at the invitational basis, based on invitational uh finishing the top three, very similar qualifications, like a masters was. And just the way the tournament was, the prestige. So for all of us, we all felt it was, and when it became one, we were all like, well, that's not fair. All the players before won that event. It was entitled, you know, entitled, but it never happened.

Mike Gonzalez 3:49

Yeah, that is a shame. Was there any real logic to choosing that particular date?

Sally Little 3:56

I just think it was money based on how much money um to push for another major because of the sponsors funding at the time. Um we went from Colgate to Nabisco and then went on to A.

Mike Gonzalez 4:14

Okay.

Sally Little 4:15

And I think it was sold as you up the purse, we'll make it a major.

Bruce Devlin 4:21

Yeah, okay.

Sally Little 4:23

But I think that you know, a lot of us didn't like that logic.

Mike Gonzalez 4:29

No, yeah, they could have moved it a year.

Sally Little 4:32

Um yeah, and I mean, and then they had four majors. Then it became so to get major. Now they're five.

Bruce Devlin 4:41

Yeah.

Sally Little 4:42

Doesn't make sense you know, to me. So but those qualifications are important for you to get in uh the Hall of Fame, you know, and it was the hardest Hall of Fame to get in in the world.

Mike Gonzalez 4:55

It seems rather arbitrary that uh you do have this uh period of period of years where it was only it was only the two majors. I mean, the title holders by then was no longer a major, the Western Open was no longer a major. Uh Avion obviously uh hadn't come around yet. Uh the DeMaurier uh, I think started in in 79 and went to 2000. The British Open didn't come to the scene until 2001. So it was just like you said, just the the PGA and the and the US Open.

Sally Little 5:23

Right. And you would think that they would have pushed for that earlier, especially Colgate. Your first hundred thousand dollar tournament ever. Um, what Colgate offered and and national TV.

Bruce Devlin 5:38

Yeah.

Sally Little 5:38

So you would have thought back then, you know, it would have, but well, it's history.

Bruce Devlin 5:47

Yeah.

Sally Little 5:48

I was so excited when I saw this from Molly, who Molly's new commissioner, she's fantastic.

Bruce Devlin 5:56

She's done a fabulous job. She's been very uh when I first contacted her, she was uh she was very nice and you know sent out a nice letter to you gals and uh the response was great. Kathy Whitworth was fabulous.

Sally Little 6:14

She's a character, hey?

Bruce Devlin 6:18

88 wins and 95 seconds. That's astounding, isn't it? Really? Yeah, it's astounding.

Sally Little 6:26

Amazing. And she, you know what's she never changed the style. Yeah. I you know, she had that style. How about that putting stroke? Yeah, everyone used to make fun of it, boy, but she made everything.

Bruce Devlin 6:40

Yeah.

Sally Little 6:41

Yeah. No, and I mean, we've had some great players.

SPEAKER_03 6:46

Yeah, you sure have.

Sally Little 6:48

Joanne Connor used to be my most favorite also to play with.

Bruce Devlin 6:52

Yeah.

Sally Little 6:52

She used to give me a go all the time. You can't head it worth anything. Yeah. She used to like do this.

Bruce Devlin 7:02

Needle, needle, needle.

Sally Little 7:04

Yeah. She just um she loved gamesmanship. She did. She didn't realize that I grew up with gamesmanship where I played.

Bruce Devlin 7:16

That's right, that's right.

Mike Gonzalez 7:18

So, Sally, let's talk about your first major championship, that being the 1980 LPGA championship at Jack W. Nicholas's Sports Center, the Grizzly course, by three over Ms. Blaylock with rounds of 6970, 7373, 285 minus three. Tell us about that one.

Sally Little 7:41

Boy, what a memory. Um on that course, very difficult golf course. Um, I recall, and I'd gone through a bit of a slump in my career. I was not performing and I was putting a lot of pressure on myself. I tended to be a bit of a technocrat, you know, fiddling. So I finally just said, no, I'm gonna let it go and not think about mechanics anymore, and just started playing very nicely that week. I'd missed a couple of cuts and I wasn't too happy. So um, but I recall very tough golf course, very long, um, and um incumbent weather the final round, really tough, windy conditions. And I was paired against the two bombers, um, Joanne Carner and Beth, Daniel. And the two of them loved to show how far they could hit it between the two of them. That's like competition between the two of them. So I just got into my own rhythm and not worrying about them, and I never forget like this on the front nine, short path four, they both try to drive the green, and they messed up a bit, so I had a bit of a lead. And the the ninth hole was a power five, and I went for it in two, and I bounced it across the water, it c it, you know, bounced over, so I was lucky, and I made I think a power birdie, I can't call, but and then I went birdie birdie, so now I'm ahead. A couple ahead of them, and then I three part. So now we one-shot or so I'm ahead, and we get to 10, 11, I think it's 12, par four, very long, over water. Wind is howling. I had to take it out to the right to even get it over the water. It was so long with wind conditions. I had like a three-word into the green, par four. The two of them go for it and they hit it in the water. So now I'm like, a gift, and I birdie, birdie that hole. So it ends up they are out, and then comes Jane. And she's I'm not paired with her, but I know I could look at this board that she is coming on. And I ended up beating her. But but the competition really was against Beth and Joanne. To complain against them, and as competitive as those two were, um, I was quite proud to have won this event.

Mike Gonzalez 10:39

You know, one of the one of the things that was interesting looking back at the uh at the final scoreboard, uh, I noticed that Marlene Hagee and Louise Suggs played in this event.

Sally Little 10:51

I know, isn't that incredible? Wow.

Mike Gonzalez 10:55

Yes.

Sally Little 10:56

In 19, that that's like that was 1980.

Mike Gonzalez 11:01

It was 1980, 30 years after the founding of the LPGA, yeah. Yeah.

Sally Little 11:06

Yeah. But um, and Jane, you know, Jane was always lovely. She was she came up, you you took my major away from me. That's all I ever got. You know you took my major.

Mike Gonzalez 11:20

So how different that how different than this wouldn't feel than a normal LPGA tour victory?

Sally Little 11:28

Well, for me, Mike, as an international player, to me, I always looked at the LPGA as the major championship. Yes, everyone wants to win an open. Absolutely a dream. But the LPGA was it it's synonymous with a professional tour.

Bruce Devlin 11:49

Yeah.

Sally Little 11:50

And to have that win was so incredible for me. I flew as a player or having that, you know, I've won this event. Um, it's like winning the men's PGA. It's, you know, at the time it was all professionals, there were no amateurs playing in that event. And it was prestigious. So, you know, it was one of my goals was to win that. Um, I wanted to win all the majors. You know, when you're a youngster, that's what you think of when you when you sit and you look at all the history books. We didn't have TV in South Africa when I grew up. Um, then you got television here in 1975. I was gone. So I never got to see women play, so I used to read everything I could.

Mike Gonzalez 12:45

So Bruce Sally was on quite a run during these years, wasn't she?

Bruce Devlin 12:50

Oh boy, wasn't she? Three victories in '79, two in '80. You won the WUI Classic uh right after the uh LPGA. And then in 81, three times again. Elizabeth Arden, Olympia Golf Classic, and then the uh Women's International for the second time.

Sally Little 13:10

For the second time? Against Kathy Whitworth.

Bruce Devlin 13:13

That's right.

Mike Gonzalez 13:14

How cool is that?

Sally Little 13:15

And I think Matthew.

unknown 13:17

Yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 13:17

Yeah, how cool is that? Uh uh 1981 Moss Creek uh beating Kathy Whitworth in a playoff.

Sally Little 13:25

Sure. And she was tough. What a competitor. I've had several um challenges with Kathy through the years. Um, I think another one was um in Virginia. Virginia, um I've I beat her uh in an event in Virginia, same, you know, with the low round, I think 65. She goes, there she goes again. They used to give me such an odd time about my low rounds. Um what a pleasure. And then my career took a huge turn um after that. I got ill, I wasn't well. My whole career kind of stalled for me. I've had a very severe endometriosis for many years, and I had to go off the tour for time to not be competitive and get well, and from then on, I was never the same player after that. Interesting.

Mike Gonzalez 14:31

And how does that how does that impact you health-wise?

Sally Little 14:35

Um, it affects you. Number one, you have to take medication that you swell, you get swelling of the brain, you um you just don't feel good, you can't handle the pressure. Um the I struggled for um for two years with it, um, off and on, and had several surgeries, and the last one was I had to not play for a while. And I actually thought I'd retire at that time. Um, I was thinking of retiring. Um, I try to come back and defend all of my championships that I'd done so well in the year before, and it was a disaster because I couldn't compete and um didn't feel the same, didn't feel well, just didn't have the focus. So I decided I said to my doctor, I should let's get off the tour and get well, which I did. But coming back, I didn't have the same focus, and uh a lot of endometriosis is is, they say, caused by stress, and so psychologically I wanted to play golf, but play golf more for fun, not in that high competitive mode. And um, so I did think about retiring, but the funniest thing happened, I got the most beautiful letter from a fan and said, We heard that you're gonna retire. And the fan said, you know, it would be such a shame because we don't care how you score, we just love to watch you play. So please don't retire. You just the way you play, it's just so beautiful to watch. Please don't retire. So I went back with that kind of attitude, was just to play and have fun, and I had such enjoyment through a period of time. I won again in '88, but it wasn't the same, Sally. But I enjoyed the last part of my career. It was different, different, but um, yeah, interesting. Hey, the things that when you go up and down, so I was um I was back in South Africa in '96, and Jane Blaylock, her brother, several of us were visiting South Africa. Um, we played in a South African pro event, and Alicia Debos from Peru was with us, and they wanted to come because they wanted to go on safari, see the animals. So I said, fair enough, we're playing this event, let's go. And I organized it. And we flew to a place called Skakuza, which is near the Kruger National Park, where the biggest beautiful park there is. And so we fly in in the little planes, tiny plane, and we go to this very small little airport, and you get your one little bag, because you know you don't carry a lot in these little planes, and all of a sudden you hear these police vans, eight of them pull in, and the guys jump out with Uzies. And my friend from Peru, she dives under the chairs because she had been in Lima with the bombings and that in she's under the chair, Jane Blalock, they're all ducking, but I can see what's going on and understand Africaans, and I can hear them saying, Mediva, Mediva's arriving. Nelson Mandela's arriving. So I'm like, don't worry, don't worry, come on, come on, get up. It's Nelson, he lives in this party. He's you're lying to us. I said, no, come on, come on, come on. So they all get up and they kind of take us and they put us, you know, like now he starts, and he comes and he starts walking with his entourage. And we walk and he waves, he's waving at us. He's very close to us, and he's going hi, and we all going high. And he walks, and then he walks about 20 feet and he stops and he turns around and he comes marching back. And I'm in the back and he sticks his head in and he goes, What are you doing here? I went and he says, Come here, come here, my child. And he gets me out and he gives me a kiss here and a kiss there. And he goes, I watched your career. Every paper I read about your career. And I and he said, What's she doing? I said, I'm bringing some friends in Madiba to see the game reserve. He goes, Who are they? And I pulled them out. It was James Laylock and got them. And he shakes their hands. They couldn't believe it. They were like, thought it was a choke, a plan. And he goes, and are these your competitors? I said, yes. And he says, Why aren't you playing good golf anymore? Just like that to me.

Bruce Devlin 19:52

Oh boy.

Sally Little 19:54

And I went, Madiba, golf's like life. It's cyclical, up and down. And he looks at me and he goes, You go back and beat those Americans. And then he walked off.

Mike Gonzalez 20:07

Funny. What a wonderful memory that was.

Sally Little 20:10

Yeah. And they they couldn't believe it. They thought it was like a plan or a lie. I was trying to, it was him. And unbelievable. And to meet him like that was what a memory.

Mike Gonzalez 20:23

Yeah, you can't set up anything like that. That just has to happen. So uh you still have a few wins in you, but before we talk about those, I thought we'd just go back, uh, take you back to when you first came to America and tell us a little bit about what life was like on the road, you know, back in the back in that time, uh traveling the tour.

Sally Little 20:47

There again, you know, Mark, I I think I was really fortunate because a lot of the players looked out for me, you know. It was like I was just this kid. So I would get rides with them, and you know, they would help me along the way. Um, I was staying in private housing all the time. I stayed in private housing for years, though. I often think that they really gave me stability. Number one, I didn't have a credit card, I couldn't drive a car. You know, we you could only have a driver's license in South Africa at the age of 21 in those years.

Bruce Devlin 21:27

Yeah.

Sally Little 21:28

So I I didn't have any of that. And so more private housing, and when I couldn't, you know, a lot of the players would help me out.

Bruce Devlin 21:38

That was great.

Sally Little 21:39

But I have fantastic memories of all of that and and the things that happened to you. I remember my first time in America going to the US Open on my own. This was the only time I stayed in a hotel because there was no housing at the open, and it was in a place called Muskoka. Muskogee, Oklahoma, Muskogee, Oklahoma. We looked on the map and Muskogee. My dad and I, Muskogee, where is this? And I had to arrive in Tulsa and take a taxi to the so got my clubs and bag and taxi, get in the taxi. And we driving and driving, and I'm saying, Where are you taking me? It's going out of the city. He said, Don't you know where this place is? I said, No. He said, It's 60 miles away. I've I went, he said, you didn't know where you're from. I told him, turn the meter off. And he goes, I'll take you to your hotel. And we're talking, and he couldn't believe I was an African. And um, and I said, you know, the least I can do is give you tickets. Do you like golf? He said, I'm gonna like golf. He came to the tournament. I got him tickets and he became my pen pal for all the I don't know how many years my taxi driver. He would write me letters saying you're not tough enough to win, you know. So I mean a marvelous career with all of the people I met, you know, and the memories. Yeah. So travel was interesting, but you know, you just find your way. And I can tell you some stories. I got into trouble, but I got out of it, wrong turns, but um I was blessed.

Mike Gonzalez 23:32

And long before cell phones and GPS. Yeah, boy, isn't that the truth?

Sally Little 23:39

None I got into trouble in Chicago. Thank God I had one of those big traveling phones at the time. Cell phone to get me out of downtown. Yeah, yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 23:54

Well, uh you you mentioned uh go uh taking some time off and and uh trying to get yourself well. Um and as you came back, we'll just go to 1986. Uh uh, you had a real close call at the U.S. Women's Open at NCR that year, didn't you?

Sally Little 24:14

Very close. Um, in fact, it was very personal um memory. My father just passed, and I I was not playing the tour because I wasn't too well. And my dad, when he was passing, he said to me, Sal, come on now, you need to go play. And he he died here in South Africa. We came home. He didn't want to die in America, you wanted to but die at home, so we all came to be with him, and um we would chat, and he said, Sal, you know you've never won the open, you finished second before in 78. Why don't you just go out and play? It'll be so nice for me to know that you're playing. So uh my brother, my brother at the time, I didn't have a tour caddy anymore because I hadn't played. And so my brother Donovan said, you know, Sal, I'd love to cut it for you. And I thought he was crazy. I said, Don, you don't know how to caddy. He said, No, I'm gonna learn. So he said it'll be nice for dad, the two of us, to play. And I said, Okay. So said, but you've got to come on Sunday because I've got to train you how to caddy. So he comes on Sunday and Monday, and I train him. And I said, Don, you the bag, you cannot, that golf bag can't be in the peripheral vision of any of the players, okay? We put that bag down, all of these things, how to rake a bunk and everything. So he was well first. So now my brother, my brother's a bit cocky. So the play the players' caddies all give him a go about how dare you caddy for your sister, you're taking a bag away from the two player pros, caddies. My brother goes, Well, you know, I wanted to do it for my sister. And he said, he said to the top players, caddy at the time, he goes, What is it like to win a tournament? And this caddy says to him, There's nothing like it. Going down the 18th hole with the people around you, and that feeling is unbelievable, but you'll never feel that to my brother.

Kathy Cornelius 26:28

Oh my.

Sally Little 26:30

So then now Don and I just play and play, and we get to the final round. We're leading. And Ty Jane Geddy's on the 18th hole to go into a playoff. So now I'm doing all press, and my brother, he went to the caddies and he said, Ah, now I know what it's like to be a tour caddy, you just like to do this. And and we ended up losing uh to Jane. Um, but there's a memory of my brother that I'll always never forget that there was something off about him, and he's 6'7, tall, skinny, couldn't figure it out. And then finally, um there was a the USGA put out a beautiful calendar of all the majors, and my brother's standing on the 18th hole at NCR with my golf bag on his shoulder, holding the pin. My brother never put the bag down for 18 holes. He just put it down for me to get a club and back on his shoulder.

Mike Gonzalez 27:36

Is that right?

Sally Little 27:37

Didn't want that bag in the way. Carried a damn thing for 18 holes on his shoulder, my brother.

Mike Gonzalez 27:43

You taught him too well. Yeah, yeah. Well, uh that was an 18-hole playoff that you had with uh with Jane Gedis uh to decide that uh US Open. Up until that point, you were four and oh in playoffs, weren't you?

Sally Little 28:00

Yeah, how about that?

Mike Gonzalez 28:03

And the other the other winners of the other three majors that year, Pat Bradley, Pat Bradley, and Pat Bradley. Yeah, yeah.

Sally Little 28:14

What a competitor. I marvel at her tenacity too. Pat was a a stick uh a winner. I mean, she just liked to win. There was nothing seconds weren't good enough for her. Amazing commitment.

Mike Gonzalez 28:34

Well, let's talk about that second major win, which came in 1988 at the Morier Classic at Vancouver Golf Club. This was by one over Dame Laura Davies.

Sally Little 28:47

Incredible win um for me personally, because I hadn't really played that well uh at all uh during that um during '88. And going out there, I didn't have a lot of confidence. Um, but there was this caddy by the name of Andy Martinez.

Bruce Devlin 29:10

No remembering.

Sally Little 29:12

And Andy was catting for at the time Muffin Spencer Devlin, and Muffin hurt her back, and I didn't have a regular caddy, so she called me and she said, please, Sally, can you take Andy? So I didn't know Andy, and um, so we met at Vancouver uh country club, and he worked for me, and um it was interesting, he gave me a lot of confidence. You know, number one, his background, great caddy, and just we we got along so well, so I got into a very nice rhythm with him. I did a lot of mental focusing again. I used to, I had uh, I like to focus on the golf course more than play it. So I would play around, but then I would visualize each hole of placements. So instead of playing too much, I did a lot of visualization, and we Andy and I talked about that, and then all of a sudden, I'm in the lead, and um I'm paired with Laura, and um she is now coming on strong. Laura's won the US Open, she's new, I mean she hits the ball um 70 yards by me at the time. I was not I was I'd lost you know a lot of weight and I wasn't that fit. She bombed it by me, and um, so it's very intimidating. And um, so we were paired final round, and I just kept my focus, and um I'll never forget the I three-putted the 16th hole to tie Laura, and uh so there was another player in the group by the name of Sherry Turner, also a long hitter, but she was out driving Sherry by 60 yards, and Sherry's a big hitter, so we get to number 17, part four. Long hole, re down the fairway. Um just missed it in the bunker. Laura has a wedge, and we've been hitting five iron back there, and um yeah, she hits it over the green, just like a chip shot over. I hit it out of the bunker like that. Oh my! Make four, she makes four. Now we get to the 18th hole at Vancouver, it's a long hole, long uphill. And the trees in Vancouver, as you know, are 200 feet high, and Laura blocks one dead right off the T, just careens into the trees, and you can hear it. And I'm thinking, okay. We down the middle, Sherry's down the middle, we both hit up, and then all of a sudden you hear this crash, boom, bang, and the cheers. This ball comes flying out a big cut, big fade, 30 yard fade, woof, next to the green, next to the pin in the bunker. I'm like, oh my word. Yeah, we go. So I hit it on the green about 25 feet, and I said to myself, if you've ever wanted to make a butt, you need to make this one because you don't want to go into a playoff with that one.

SPEAKER_03 32:42

You don't stand a prayer now to stay in a playoff against this one.

Sally Little 32:48

So I made the butt to win. Oh my! And she was so fabulous, you know. I she came running and she kind of lifted me up like wow, awesome. And we became really good friends. In fact, we used to have a tournament called the Hunter Cup, a team event, and I captained her um with Chris Johnson. It was the US against the rest of the world, it was for several years. So I captained them and I loved them um to be their captain. There was such a good sense of camaraderie through the years of playing against each other. Yeah, but that's a different era. Swing speed, I I remember when we played the um mixed team, and Laura was first year on tour, and John Daly asked her to be his partner. And John was, you know, how long John was. So the network, TV network, said, Listen, we'd like to take your swing speeds for national TV to see the speed. Let's take some film of that. So they did, and her speed was quicker than his. And he said, No way do you put that on national TV on their beloved down. Oh yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 34:09

Wow.

Sally Little 34:10

Incredible.

Mike Gonzalez 34:11

Incredible. At this event, uh, after you're opening round 74, you were probably thinking about, well, I'd I better get my act together in the second day. I want to I want to be around for the weekend.

Sally Little 34:24

Yeah. And I turned it around. Um, I played well the the first day, but I wasn't focused to the 74. And then I had a couple of six in the 60s. 60s. Uh um, I remember shooting below 68 the second day, or 65. Oh, 65, there you go.

Mike Gonzalez 34:45

Yes, 765.

Sally Little 34:48

Forgot that.

Mike Gonzalez 34:50

I don't know how you could.

Sally Little 34:52

And then another 68, or yeah. So I got it. Yeah, interesting.

Bruce Devlin 35:00

Yeah, yeah.

Sally Little 35:01

I love those those low numbers, didn't you, Bruce?

Bruce Devlin 35:04

Yeah, I didn't shoot enough of them though.

Mike Gonzalez 35:10

Um you did win again uh in 1996 uh in the South African Women's Masters uh champion. It was the inaugural event.

Sally Little 35:21

Yes, it was was wonderful. They asked me to come for the first one, and um it was the first time I'd ever played on as a professional on my home soil. Yeah, it was wonderful. And the the you should have seen what who came out to follow. It was amazing, the people that came out. Uh, it was in Johannesburg and to win there um on a golf course that I knew really well, you know, as an amateur. Yeah, just the memories, yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 35:59

So take us through the transition of uh competing at the highest levels uh around the world against the greatest golfers at of the time, to okay, I can't do this forever. I gotta think about what I'm gonna do next in my life. What was that transition like?

Sally Little 36:16

It was long. Um, you know, you never really know when it's time when you've had such a long career. I mean, I played competitively for 28 years. That's a long one, but I think it was due to having that illness, and I always thought maybe I could get it back, but never could. So it carried out too long. And um I had this, my mother was the my mother was amazing. She kept a lot of my clippings, my scrapbooks, and I had a thing, I never looked at anything as far as my career went. Never read a newspaper clipping, everything was put away in that small little chest. And I just didn't like reading about myself. So about 2005, um, South Africa called, I was living in Florida still, and they said, We're trying to find this history of you. Could you please look? Do you have anything? The year. And it was about 68, and I had these scrapbooks. So I went in this kiss, the mosque came out, and went to 1968 and pulled it out, and I'm opened it up, and here's this picture of this woman by the name of Esme Pearcy, and she's sitting on a couch with her two daughters, and the on the on the front page of our top paper here, and it said, I'm Esme Pearcy, I'm 54 years old. I have to play this 15-year-old in the our province, number one championship. She's younger than my daughters. So I looked at that and I went, oh my gosh, she's the same age as me. Look at this. And I'm, I don't want to be playing on tour with these youngsters now. And I looked at that and I went, I'm gonna retire. Called the LPGA, and I said, I'm retiring from the tour. So this woman, Esme, she started me and she ended my career.

Bruce Devlin 38:37

Oh, there you go.

Sally Little 38:37

And I try to find her, and she just passed away. I told her daughters, your mom was instrumental in my career in the beginning and the end. Yeah, so I just decided to close the chapter on that. And then it was like, what am I gonna do? And you know, we had LPGA had always been very um much involved in development, all the events we do for for charity and also helping inner cities, and we had done a lot of work with that, and I thought, geez, they've asked me to go home and help build a golf course, design a golf course. I've got to think about what I'm gonna do with the rest of my career. And I decided that I wanted to start my own foundation, we call it a trust, yeah, to help kids of backgrounds that don't have a chance, number one, to play golf, but also education-wise. And it's what I've been pardon?

Bruce Devlin 39:46

No, I say, and it's called snag.

Sally Little 39:49

I use snag to help my kids. Um starting new at golf, um, it's an American system that I start training them with. But most of all, I work with kids in my ward here where I live. There's a school that kids are very, you know, they don't have much. And I went to the principal and I looked at their mathematics um, you know, the failure in mathematics in the school, and I said, 98%, this is nonsense. So I went to the principal and I said, you know, the system we work with switches on both sides of the brain. Most young girls they ride on mommy's back and they don't crawl. So they don't switch on both sides of the brain, very poor in mathematics. I said, Would you allow me to train 10 little ones of eight years old? Give me a chance with snag and see what happens. And the city of Cape Town gave me a place to start with them, the mayor at the time, started work with them, and he he's and I said, Your job is to choose them, and you sign a waiver, we pick them up, they come with us, we take them back. We do it in mural during class because they all bust in from everywhere. They don't have a I don't want them to be alone. They go right back to school. So he calls me and he said, I don't know what you're doing, but can I come out and have a look? We've been now four years, we've put 60 girls through. Every one of them, their mathematics through the roof, they're going into better high schools. So my goal is to find, gee, you wish you could find another one of me, but that's a dream. But the goal here for me is to take these young ones into once they finish high school, they can learn a vocation through us, and it would be in golf. Teaching the game to agronomy, to anything in golf. And this is where the LPGA and the USGA uh have endorsed my trust now at South Africa.

Mike Gonzalez 42:11

That's gotta feel almost as good as a LPGA win.

Sally Little 42:15

It really is. I can't tell you. I think I get more joy out of seeing these youngsters. I've got two that are in a home here. You know, their parents can't afford to keep them, these little ones. And you see the joy in them, and they're flying with them with their schoolwork.

Bruce Devlin 42:35

Yeah.

Sally Little 42:35

I mean, it's like the most wonderful thing to do, that give back. That's what I'm doing.

Mike Gonzalez 42:43

Yeah, you know, you've amassed a lot of accolades uh over your career, over your life. Uh which one are you most proud of?

Sally Little 42:53

Hmm. Well, I would say the Pioneer Award. Come on, that's a heck of a one to have. LPGA, thank you.

Bruce Devlin 43:03

Yeah, yeah.

Sally Little 43:04

You know, we all giggle. I said, Nancy, that really tells us how old we really are. And you're a lot younger than me. We chaff each other. But I also have to say the Ben Hogan Award. That was a special one.

Mike Gonzalez 43:17

That was uh given from the Golf Writers uh Association, correct? Association, yeah, yeah.

Sally Little 43:22

And and Dinah Shaw presented it to me. Oh so those memories, yeah, at at the at the Colgate. No, it was then, no, it was then Nabisco.

Mike Gonzalez 43:37

Okay, okay. All right.

Sally Little 43:39

I don't know, could could have been the Colgate still.

Mike Gonzalez 43:41

Well, let's see. What what year was it?

Sally Little 43:45

Um Jeez. I think it had to be um the Ben Hogan Award.

Bruce Devlin 43:53

89. Yeah, eighty nine.

Sally Little 43:55

Eighty nine.

Mike Gonzalez 43:56

Yeah, it could have been craft nobody.

Sally Little 43:58

Then it was Nibis. Yes.

Mike Gonzalez 44:00

Either Kraft Nabisco or or Nabisco, yeah.

Sally Little 44:04

It was Craft Nabisco. She was still was with us then. Um Yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 44:09

Yeah.

Sally Little 44:11

What a lady.

Mike Gonzalez 44:12

So Bruce, uh we we always ask our guests a couple of questions. I'm gonna let you go first.

Bruce Devlin 44:20

Okay, Sally. If you if you knew what you know now, what would you have done differently when you first started to play golf professionally?

Sally Little 44:35

Boy, I tell that to everyone every day. Have a better short game.

Bruce Devlin 44:42

That's a great answer.

Sally Little 44:45

I it took me four years to learn that when I couldn't break the top ten. And until I got a really good short game, and that's never moved out of the top seven. Unbelievable short game.

Mike Gonzalez 45:01

And the the next one is you get one career mulligan, where do you take it?

Sally Little 45:09

Sure. I would have to say the 86 open.

Mike Gonzalez 45:18

That's no surprise.

Sally Little 45:20

Yeah, I made a double. Um, I think I shot 73 and Jane shot 71 or two, but I made a bad double with bogey on the ninth hole. I would love another mulligan there.

Mike Gonzalez 45:35

And was there one particular shot uh on that hole? What caused the double?

Sally Little 45:41

Um a bunker shot. I think I had a bad lie. But also, um I remember another during that event, I was playing with a very slow player, and I hit the part five in two, and PJ Boatright came up, and they were timing us for slow play, and it made me so nervous I three-putted. So I'd like an and I'd like a mulligan there because I then would have won outright.

Bruce Devlin 46:12

So there is one more, one more question. Yeah. How does Sally Little, how would she like to be remembered?

Sally Little 46:23

That's a good one. I would like to be remembered um as a player coming from like a South Africa and living her dream in America, what America did for her. I love America. And I would never change my career. And thanks to America, I was able to achieve and and excel. That's I'd like to be remembered that I enjoyed your country so much, and you gave me what I have and what I'm doing here now.

Bruce Devlin 47:04

Sally Little, it has been indeed a fabulous few seems like hours, but it's not that long. Thanks for being with us today. Uh we enjoyed your stories, and I know, Mike, uh uh, what a guest, huh?

Mike Gonzalez 47:22

Yep, certainly. Uh it was an absolute pleasure, Sally. We really appreciate your time.

Sally Little 47:28

Well, thank you both. And what you're doing, I'm so pleased. I can't wait to send this. There's so many people that would love this because they love golf, but just this, what you're doing, is so special. It really is. Um, I just hope you continue on, and anything else you need, I'm here for you boys. I'll be listening.

Bruce Devlin 47:51

Thank you, Sally. Thanks, Sally.

Sally Little 47:53

Love you, Bruce Devlin, forever. Remember, I had that crush on you too, don't you?

Bruce Devlin 47:58

Okay, okay. You're so sweet. Bye.

Sally Little 48:03

Bye, bye-bye.

Mike Gonzalez 48:06

Thank you for listening to another episode of For the Good of the Game. And please, wherever you listen to your podcast on Apple and Spotify, if you like what you hear, please subscribe, spread the word, and tell your friends until we tee it up again for the good of the game. So long, everybody.

Kathy Cornelius 48:30

It went smack down fairway.