Tony Jacklin - Part 1 (The Early Years)

Mike Gonzalez 0:14

Well welcome to another edition of FORE the Good of the Game and Bruce Devlin this morning. I am sporting a color that our guest wore fifty-two years ago at Lytham. He can tell us more about whether this is purple, mauve, periwinkle, lilac, violet. I'm not sure. I know it's a royal color, but why don't you introduce our guest this morning?

Bruce Devlin 0:39

Well, we've got a great guest this morning. Uh as you mentioned, uh Tony uh wins the Open Championship and then uh comes over to the United States and just absolutely blistered everyone at the U.S. open up in Hazeltine. I think he won by seven shots. Uh from England, the great player, Tony Jacklin. Tony, welcome. We're glad to have you, buddy.

Tony Jacklin 1:05

Thanks, Bruce. Nice to be with you, post.

Mike Gonzalez 1:10

Yeah, we're just so happy to have you, Tony. And and uh for our listeners that are going to be listening this, uh, oh, I don't know, 20 years from now, 50 years from now, uh, let it be known that uh this is Open Championship Week, and play started just several hours ago at uh Royal St. George's. So it's uh it's a real treat that we get to visit with you during Open Championship Week.

Tony Jacklin 1:33

Yeah, good. I've been uh I've just had an hour or so in front of the box catching up on uh on the early stages. They're all jockeying right now, obviously, and uh there's a fresh breeze down there at Sandwich. Um so uh I should be looking forward to uh seeing the outcome of that.

Mike Gonzalez 1:56

Well, let's let's get this color question answered then uh 52 years ago. You had uh you had this color uh shirt, sweater, and pants, as I recall that Sunday. What what color was that?

Tony Jacklin 2:08

Well, uh I guess it was uh lilac or purple or whatever. I mean, Pringle at that point in time were uh coming out with some uh nice pastel colors, and uh, you know, they were sort of getting out of a sort of fuddy-duddy stage, and uh uh in those days we used to uh make a beeline for the uh the the PJ um tent and uh you know get first in. But first in you got the best choice. And uh I I was uh I like bright colors. I was, you know, uh and uh so that uh that was a Pringle sweater, and of course winning in it um uh got uh it didn't do any harm for the sales anyway, let's put it that way.

Mike Gonzalez 3:06

I think you guys were all pretty colorful back then, back in that day.

Tony Jacklin 3:10

Well, we tried. Uh trouble was, of course, we couldn't get on TV. That's uh not not like uh these lads today, but but uh we did our best and that's all you can do.

Mike Gonzalez 3:24

Well, why don't we go back and just start at the beginning, uh Tony, before we start talking about major championship wins and so forth. Uh you were born uh in uh oh I guess uh sort of the middle on the on the east coast of England, I guess uh maybe straight across from from what, Manchester and Liverpool, but on the other side of England? That's right.

Tony Jacklin 3:46

That's right, Lincolnshire. It was uh and and uh Lincolnshire was the second biggest county to Yorkshire in the UK at that time. Since then they've sort of split it up into North and South Lincolnshire, but uh yeah, it's a pretty flat sort of country around there. Um and my dad was a steel worker, Scunthorpe, where I was born, was a steel town, and uh he drove a locomotive on the on the steelworks, and uh I guess it I would be about eight or nine in that summer. I've just had a birthday, my birthday's July, so that uh that summer when I was probably coming up to my ninth birthday. Um the neighbor, his neighbor, our immediate neighbor, went out and played golf. And I can remember him coming coming up over the f over the fence and saying to my dad, I've I've tried golf today, Arthur. I think you might like it. And uh that was the beginning for him. He he he cleared off, he said to my mum, I won't be long, and of course, you know, four hours later his dinner was in the oven, and uh and he was smitten, and I used to go and pull his trolley and uh uh have a go when we got away from the members' eyes near the clubhouse and that sort of thing. And and really that's how it all started. The pro at the club uh uh Ted Muscroft uh he was a relation to Hedley Muscroft, who I'm sure uh Bruce remembers. Uh he was quite a rascal, Headley. But um uh Ted would be at best eight handicap, I would think. And uh in those days, uh, you know, they used to change jobs at lunchtime. He was a sort of super green keeper in the morning and the pro in the afternoon. Yeah. And uh, but it it suited me. It was within uh cycling distance from our house. I it was about three or four miles away. So I spent my summers there. Essentially, I was self-taught, plenty of time on my hands, and uh uh you know, by the time I got to about 13, I started to sh show a lot of improvement. I got to be a county player, and I won the uh the Lincolnshire Open. That was against all the pros and everything when I was just 16, and uh of course I wanted to be a pro, but in in those far-off days, there was only one course in the whole of our county that uh could afford an assistant professional, and that was Woodhall Spa, and uh they already had one. So turning pro m meant leaving home. And uh uh I I initially went into the steelworks for a year where 95% of the young men go in in Scunthorpe, and uh I hated it, of course, and uh I started applying for jobs. And uh I uh I actually got an interview with uh one of Bruce's countrymen, a guy called Bill Shanklin. Yeah. Uh he was uh he was a uh uh quite a salesman with Shanko. Apart from any from his golfing prowess, he actually finished third in the open three times as a player, but he was the captain of a 1934 rugby team from Australia, and uh there was pictures in the pro shop of him presenting his team to the king and God knows what. Anyway, he was um he was a a a character and uh I got my dad to take me down there. Um you know in those days there was no motorways in England, the M1 motorway didn't come on stream till 1967, and so this was late '61. Uh my dad took me down for an interview, and Shanko was uh on top form. He was saying, oh, we'll do brilliant here if he comes here. I've had I've had 35 assistants through me. And of course, we thought this was very impressive. Uh and uh I never thought that you know they had he had 35 because they couldn't stand it, you know, they they lasted about three weeks apiece and uh and cle and cleared off. Anyway, uh uh long story short, I uh was getting six pounds a week and half of what I earned teaching and playing. So I got the okay to start on January the 1st, 1962, and uh again we we battled down there, and it was a battle, it was a five-hour drive from Scuntup to get to London in those days. I mean, it's half that now. But uh and my dad's car was a sort of pre-war uh jobby, you know, we uh we weren't swimming in uh in funds. We got down there and there was two feet of snow. And uh Shankov says, Well, you better go back. You know, he didn't want to pay me for doing nothing. I said, that's out of the question. I said, This is it. You know, I mean, I had a suitcase, I had five pounds in my pocket, and uh anyway, he he bit the bullet and said, Well, if that's it, that's it. And uh and that's you know, my mum and dad uh drove back, and you know, I never saw them for uh well about a year, I suppose. We didn't have a phone, so we used to write on a weekly basis. Um I got some digs within a m a half mile of the golf course, and one of the caddies and his wife put me up temporarily. She said, I'll put you up for a week. I ended up that was my base in London for seven years. So uh uh all that was good, and I was basically on on my way. I started to play a few local events. I won the Middlesex Assistance Championship um later uh that year. And Shanko actually let you know was quite good. He let let us play in in competitions and t tournaments, but it was never it was never very complimentary. It's sort of you'd come back having one the next day and he said you you did all right yesterday, but you were lucky, weren't you? You know, that kind of that that that was his way of saying well played. But um I I played in the open. Uh I qualified uh uh and uh actually I play in the qualifying I played with Max Flautner at the for Lytham. This is uh the Lytham Open in 63, which Bob Charles won. Right. And uh I ended up playing four rounds and you know finished 30th, uh, which was a shot better than uh Arnold Palmer, which in those days was a you know uh quite a feat in itself. But it was actually that so from that point in time, not not not within a month of that, I had a blazing row with uh Shankland and told him to stuff his job where the monkeys stuffed their nuts. So uh anyway, uh I was I was a free agent. The the president of the club, Mr. Rubens, was a very he was very central to my or became very central to my life at the time because he got wind of the fact that Shankar and I had had this blow-up and he came and requested a round of golf with me and uh we played three holes and uh he says how's your how's your boss treating you? And I said, you know, and I t I told him told him everything. And uh, you know, that Shankar was a bully. That's the you know, that was the center central trouble with it all. And uh he says, Well, what are you gonna do? I said, I want to play golf. And uh he said, What are you gonna do this winter? Because, you know, we'd most of the summer had gone by and I said, Well, I don't know I I thought I might go down to South Africa. Uh you know, it's it was they had an eight-week tour down there and uh there was no time change and it was a straight shot from London to to Joe Burg and and he said, How much is it gonna cost? And I said, Six hundred pounds. And uh he said, Well, if I put two hundred in and I get Dunlop Eric Hayes was the boss of Dunlop at that time, uh, dear old boy, and and he said, If I get Dunlop to put two hundred in, I put two hundred in, can you put two hundred in? I said, Yeah. I had about three hundred and forty-five quid in in the bank at the time. You rem I remember all this. Uh and uh anyway, that was that. And uh I would and Andy said what we'll do is I'll organise is if you don't make your expenses at a a tournament, we'll c we'll cover your expenses if you don't make them. If you do, you do. Which actually was a fantastic way to w way to do it, you know, and uh so I managed to get a little car. I mean I I had an Austin A 30, it cost 35 quid. I mean, you can't get a taxi around the corner for 35 quid now. But uh, you know, it got me to the to the UK events and you know, occasional one in Scotland, and I played the rest of that year there, and then I went off to South Africa, and that's really how it all all all started. I didn't do a damn bit of good in South Africa. I won £35 in prize money, spent the 600 obviously, but it set me up for the the following year, and that experience putting on those nappy greens down there. Um uh, you know, it I I I started to make money on the on the British circuit. And uh I won the British assistance and I was just making you know, making my way and uh and having fun doing it. So uh that was the beginning.

Bruce Devlin 15:19

You gotta love the game to do what you did, Mr. Jacqueline. I can tell you that, man. That was a tough road to hoe.

Tony Jacklin 15:26

Uh yeah, well, uh, you know, uh I didn't know any different. Um and it it it it was a different um it was a different time. Uh the world was a different place and uh you do what you can and you do what you gotta do. I was very fortunate meeting uh uh Johnny Rubens. He was he he was president of the Pottersbar Golf Club. Uh and uh he took a shine to me and uh he you know we became uh best of friends. I subsequently in the late sixties took him to Augusta. He was on business in America in nineteen sixty-eight when I went at Jacksonville and detoured and watched me great win there playing, you know, it was just uh a sort of d destiny thing. And you know, like the man said, if you if if you don't play, you can't win. So uh I I was just uh I'm sure not not much different to you, Bruce, in the fact that coming for from where you came, you had to travel, you had to get off your backside, and uh if you wanted to be better, you had to go where the best players were, and uh and that was you know all I did. I uh if I was gonna spend time doing this, I I wanted to be as good as I could possibly be. So that meant, you know, uh putting myself uh pitting myself against uh the the best players on the planet.

Bruce Devlin 17:04

That's the way we all learn, isn't it, really, when you think about it. Uh uh particul particularly uh those of us who weren't brought up in this country, uh we you know we thought we were pretty good players, and then then you come over and play against the best players in the world, you realise that boy, I I think I need to do a little bit more work and get my game in better shape.

Tony Jacklin 17:28

Well, I I I always th went out of my way, I must say, uh as a young man playing playing the British and Irish, uh Scottish tour as it was, this was all before the European Tour existed. But I made it my business to play practice with you know who were the best players. Di Reese was very kind to me. I played a lot of golf with Di, uh Peter Alice, Dave Thomas. Um I'm I'm played practice rounds with them and you know talked to them about this, that and the other. The thing was uh back in back in those days there was very few there were very few new golf courses. You know, there was no money. And uh we ended up playing most of our tournament golf on Lynx golf courses. Yeah. And uh you know you know them as well as I do, Bruce. You you played I can re I can remember playing with you up there at uh Hillside in the Nine Nations things uh all those years ago. But we played the vast majority of our tournaments on Lynx golf courses, and as you watch the championship being played this week, you're compromised. Your swing is always, always being compromised by the stance you get, the wind, uh and there was very little opportunity to sort of develop a classic swing, uh uh a swing. You were you were more developing a swing that operated. And uh it was when I got to sort of mid-60s, you know, and I was obviously uh pretty good at what I was doing, but I I I found that getting w when I got in the in the frame, as it were, towards the end of a tournament, I would uh rush, you know, my swing was rushed. I got a bit nervous and I got quick. And I needed to, you know, I needed to control that speed under all circumstances if I was going to be as good as I wanted to be. And um so as soon as uh as soon as I could, I made a a B-line uh f for America. Actually, uh where they're playing right now is uh significant because going back to 1967, I had the first whole in one ever televised at Sandwich in the Dunlop Masters, at which I I managed to win uh and it was very soon after that that I came to America uh a month within a month and got my tour card in Palm Beach Gardens, and uh and I was uh you know obviously full-time then uh on the American tour. And very fortunately I I befriended uh Bert Yancey, Tom Weisskoff, obviously got to know the likes of Bruce and Harold Henning and Gary and all the other international players. I got to know all of them well. Uh but uh Weisskoff and Yancey were great students of the game as well. Weisskoff's mentor was Tommy Bolt. I mean, you know, Bolt was one of the great swings out there, and uh you know, unfortunately, he he uh uh he did two bad shots and clear off, you know. He got he got down on himself. Um but but he knew, you know, and he was playing with the likes of Nelson and Hogan on a full-time basis. So I was in the middle of all this sort of amazing knowledge and um and quickly realized that uh I hadn't learned to use my lower body in the right fashion, you know. As I say, the swing had been compromised playing in in wind. And when I got under pressure, the upper body wanted to move too quick. And which put me basically out of control.

Bruce Devlin 22:08

Yeah.

Tony Jacklin 22:09

And uh so I practiced uh diligently with uh Seveniron, which was I saw as the transition club. It was a full swing, but you know, I wasn't really trying to hit it uh any more than 150 yards, which is about what we all hit it then. That's right. Uh w whether your name was Devlin or Nicholas or Palmer, uh 150 was a seven iron, 140 uh was an eight iron. Anyway, I hit thousands of seven irons working on this sort of uh keeping my knees flexed and slide and turn through the ball, slide let the legs lead. You know, that was the thing. Keep the legs in front of everything else. And uh you know, it it wasn't very long before uh before it paid off and I I managed to win at Jacksonville um in the spring of 68. Uh uh and in the doing of that I actually got paired with I was paired with Don January and uh and and God himself, you know, Arnold at the time. And so the win was uh more significant because I endure I was able to endure the uh Arnie's army, if you like, uh coming down the stretch. I knew damn well they didn't care much about what I was doing. It was all about Arnold, but uh I somehow had uh had the uh mental fortitude to to deal with it and uh and got it done.

Mike Gonzalez 23:51

So Tony, I want to come back to that that Jacksonville win, but before we do, your comment about the swing, particularly what you learned in terms of controlling your swing under pressure. I'd like to hear a little bit more about that from both you and Bruce. You said your key was knees flex, make sure you've got sort of that leaning into the shot with your legs starting that motion down. And then it felt like everything else could slow down and you could you could stay in tempo. You know, I'm I'm not at your caliber, but I've certainly had days on the golf course where I've had that feeling where if I can slow it down like that, I get hypersensitive and almost it feels like I'm in slow motion the rest of the swing and feel like I'm I'm almost in ultimate control of the ball with my hands. I don't have that feeling very often, but is that what you guys experienced when you really tried to slow it down and focus?

Tony Jacklin 24:44

Yeah, I mean uh in we we worked on tempo. That was the word that was predominant in our conversations. Yans and Wise. Um I mean, I would we would stand funnily enough, I was my youngest son, Sean, who's 30 and a pro, you know, he knows all this stuff. And but we used to stand and try and hit wedges with our knees, if that makes any sense to anybody. But we we were very tuned into what was going on in the l in the lower body. Uh for me it was, as I said, keep my legs flexed. I mean, I have pictures in the early 60s when my uh impact, both my legs were rigid, straight, and I was on my toes.

Bruce Devlin 25:33

Yeah.

Tony Jacklin 25:34

You know, so my m my main objective was to keep my left heel on the deck if I could, and and not not be uh flat out a hundred percent all the time. Uh you know, I don't think you can uh control a hundred percent, although I watched the TV today, the modern days with this modern gear, and some of these guys are 110%. Uh, but I'm not uh very sure they know where it's going. And uh, you know, the the upshot of it is you see some incredibly crazy wild shots, uh, you know, uh but they gouge it out because uh the ball's going fifty yards further and they're not having to hit media mines into part fours like we did. Yeah. So, you know, uh uh direction was uh uh a big part of playing well in that time wasn't a question of hitting the ball miles, it was uh you know finding it you had to hit it straight.

Bruce Devlin 26:42

Yeah. My comment, uh Tony, relative to that would be in some ways similar to you. I always felt like the very first move, even sometimes before the completed backswing, was to move the left knee so that you set the club, you reset the club ready for the downswing.

Tony Jacklin 27:03

Absolutely. The Hogan secret was was you know f uh driving the ledge just prior to getting the club uh fully back, you know, firing the the lower body uh before and because he had that wonderful uh double jointed in the wrist, and he could lag that son of a gun. I mean, it was perfection to see him uh do it. I mean, I've got as you did, I got to play with him and I admired him. I think he was it as far as I'm because he was the best best I ever saw. And uh, you know, maybe didn't fully appreciate it at the time, but you know, he he played in 27 major championships and he won nine of them. Uh, you know, that's pretty good record. And he didn't defend he and I played one open. Uh and won it. Yeah, and then didn't defend that. And uh so now he was he was it and it was all there to see, you see. And this was the you know, being self-taught. I could I was I used my eyes a lot and and uh I I was a good mimic and I could copy and and that's what I was doing. I was in the middle of all this talent. Um and and uh took full advantage of it. Um we touched on something uh a few weeks ago, just like you, Bruce, and I know we used to discuss this uh in times past, but uh there were a number of uh uh shall we say mean spirit uh mean-spirited individuals around on on this tour back then. Uh I'm not I'm not talking about the superstars and the Nicholas's and the Trevino's and the Arnold Palmers, but there were those who uh weren't very worldly, they essentially didn't travel, and they made our life difficult. I certainly went out of the way to my make my life difficult, and I've played, you know, many times around when uh their conversation was never addressed to me. They would address me through the scorekeeper, tell him tell him to do this, tell him to do that. Uh see, you know, I mean it was it was brutal.

Bruce Devlin 29:44

Yeah.

Tony Jacklin 29:44

And uh actually I I put it in a book twenty, thirty years ago, you know. It's uh and and I had you know people react to it. Uh I mean Bob Bob Goldby was one of the main characters. He was, you know, uh I played with Bob and he and he actually to his credit, when he read that in uh in the book I did, this is 30 years ago, he came up and and shook my hand, he said, maybe we maybe we were a bit uh a bit rough on you, you know. And uh I mean uh Dave Hill stood up when w when we split from the PGA in 1968 and Dean Beaman had everybody in a big he was sat next to me, Dave Hill, he stood up and he says, I don't think foreign players should be allowed to play in America. I mean he actually said and I said, sit down, you miserable sod. I mean I mean he came flat out and said it. I mean, but that's the way they felt. And uh there were there was certainly none of that. However that helped me toughen up. You know, it it helped toughen me up because you know, I get into this situation again, playing with Palmer and Don January that final day. You're not gonna get through that unless you've got some mental fortitude. And and those situations with those mean-spirited individuals actually helped me develop uh uh a rhino skin, if you like, you know, that uh every time I stood on the T, I was you know, I was I was in a mental uh a tough mental uh place.

Bruce Devlin 31:31

Just adding to what you just said there, Tony, uh we'll go back to the to you winning the uh US Open. And uh after you'd won the US Open, believe it or not, there were at that time six international or foreign players who were in the top ten on the PGA tour money list. And I was asked a question by a robber about the fact that we had so many foreign players on the top of the money list. And uh I said to him, Well, you know, uh it's my it's only my opinion. I said, but if you took the top ten foreign players today and the top ten Americans, and we played them anywhere but in the United States, there'd be a chance that we could beat them. And uh next week was Cleveland. Uh Bruce Devlin won the tournament that week, but uh on the Wednesday I was walking down the stairs at Aurora Country Club where the uh Cleveland Open was playing, and I got grabbed by this by the top of the arm by Dan Sykes, and he said, Hey, I want to talk to you. So we went up, we went up into the locker room, and I thought, well, you know, I guess what's gonna happen now is we're gonna get into a fight, but it didn't happen. But uh he said, you know, what's this opinion? You think you could beat the top ten Americans? I said, look, all I can tell you is uh I see six of the top ten players at the moment on the tour that are foreign players, so uh I rest my case.

Tony Jacklin 33:15

Yeah, I mean, of course, they never they never would ever think that it was that much harder for us having to sort of leave our homelands and and uh everything uh uh about our childhood and come to a new place and uh so it's uh anyway, it's the way it was, and Dan Sykes was oh, he was a I played with him in the last round at Durrell one year and I was leading. And I'm teeing the ball up on the island green on the ninth, the water everywhere. He said, I played with Tommy Aron here last year, he was leading, he went in the water. He hit it in the water. Double bogey for TJ, what a charming chap he was that downside. Anyway, uh, and of course, uh things that people uh maybe not aware of, but around that time uh there was well just beyond that, the there was a sort of talk about the senior tour starting over here, and uh of course it was all these uh mean-spirited geezers that made the rules. They were the ones that got together and made the rules so that and everything they did was in an effort to keep foreign players out. I mean, even you know, back in ninety-four when I qualified, I was became fifty. Uh I'd won a couple majors. I wasn't exempt on the senior tour. You know, I had to come over here and get sponsors to invite me, and I thank God I won my fourth time up or something, and that uh you know got me uh out there. But there's still there was I wasn't exempt and I just had no option but to play every week because it was all done on American money, and um I ended up exhausting myself after three years and I didn't want to uh do it anymore. But uh uh that's another story. I mean, you've got guys like Michael Campbell and Paul Laurie, both major winners in uh in in Europe, they can't get uh can't get arrested on the senior tour because those rules are still very much against uh guys like that.

Bruce Devlin 35:48

It's basically all off the uh US uh tour moneyless. That's why that's why it's very difficult for international players to even get on the senior tour.

Mike Gonzalez 35:57

Yeah, absolutely. Tony, you made this point, and I've heard Bruce make it before as well. Uh, and that's that uh the issue wasn't with the Arnold Palmers and the Jack Nicholas's and the Lee Trevinos, it was with that tier of player that felt uh threatened by your presence because you guys were taking money off the table.

Tony Jacklin 36:19

Well, yeah, but I mean but they were also it's it's very it's it it's actually quite interesting this because they were the players that didn't uh leave home. They never played overseas, uh, you know, and uh I think that was uh a big, big part of the uh the problem. I think we you know we all enjoy the fruits of this country. I love living in America, but uh you know we're we're we're there's been a war going on here for a very long time, and and and it's created by people who don't know what it's like to go to Sweden and spend a couple of months in South Africa or go uh go to the Far East. I think uh if if if there was a solution to uh uh some of the political situations that exist in America, I would give them all a passport and tell them to travel around a little bit and come back and see how well off they are at the end of it all.

Bruce Devlin 37:23

Yeah, good point.

Tony Jacklin 37:25

That's just me. And you can re relate that to what we experienced, as I say, all of those chaps that we're talking about, uh none of them, but it basically went outside of America because it was uh they had no need to. I remember Peter Thompson saying to me, you know, uh, what do you want to go there for? You know, to play, because I want to be better. I said, Oh, you'd be better off playing in in Kenya and Australia and this place and that place. And then when I won the US Open, he came and shook my hand and he says, Well done, I wish it had been me.

Mike Gonzalez 38:07

So anyway. You know, you you mentioned uh Ben Hogan, Tony. Uh who were some other uh guys that sort of influenced you as a young man uh relative to the game? Because I know you had a chance to see some oh at least a couple of great golfers, really, as a uh as almost a boy uh locally where you grew up, didn't you?

Tony Jacklin 38:29

Well, yeah, Bobby Locke came and and uh he played Ted Ted Muscroft one Sunday. They uh the tournaments in the UK all finished on Saturdays uh before the early 70s, because there's an organization out there called the Lord's Day Observance Society, and they didn't allow sport on Sundays. Sundays was the most boring day ever. Anyway, these top uh pros used to do exhibitions, and uh Locke came to uh Scontort and played with with Ted Muscroft. I picked the the balls up. I'll just tell a quick story, this gospel truth. It'd been raining, and Locke's first shot was um eight iron and they dispatched me off to the pick the balls up, you know, with a shag bag and first ball he hits plugs in the hole in the ground. I'm thirteen years old. So I ease it out, wipe it off, put it in the bag, and I'm damned if the next ball he hit didn't go in the same pitch mark, plug mark as the first one. I mean, I'm 13 and I'm thinking, God, how good is this guy? You know, I mean things things get your attention when you're uh uh but uh uh it was at that same year that Locke came to play at Scontor. The Ryder Cup uh came to Lindrick, uh, which is 60 miles away. And uh my dad took me to the Ryder Cup, and you know that was the first time I saw world-class players. The first guy I saw hit was their Dal Finsterwald, who lives down the road in Orlando here, and uh he hit a five-iron out of semi-ruff, and I'd never seen a swing like that. And that that day inspired me to become a professional, you know, after seeing all those great players, Dick Mayer, Ted Kroll, Jackie Burke, um so many of them, Bolt, of course. I became good friends with Bolt and uh uh he helped me a lot. I used to love listening to uh and as a young man I got to play with Byron. I mean, not in tournaments because he he he didn't play in tournaments, but I played I played a bit of golf with Gene Sarazen and uh and Byron and there wasn't a time I went out there that I didn't learn something from them. You know, it was uh it was a great place to be. And um I I I uh I I learned a tremendous amount. But um I suppose looking back over my my career the w the the the the thing that I didn't handle well was um my my playing schedule. You know, I I I was living in the UK trying to play this tour. I was with Mark McCormack from IMG who was pushing me to stay in Europe and uh quite simply after I won my two opens I I should have lived in America. And I had a a wonderful arrangement at Sea Island in Georgia. But m McCormack priced me out of the what they could have he asked he was asking for more than they could afford and they let me go. I never had a I never had another club affiliation in America and you know McCormack and all his cronies at the time were telling me that I was European and you know I should and uh you know basically I I wore myself uh out trying to be all things to all people. And uh uh that's that's I suppose the major regret looking back over over the last sixty years is uh that uh you know I didn't I got the best out of myself on a few occasions, but not uh the don the longevity wasn't there because I I uh you've got to turn up mind and body. Mind and body have to be together. It's no good you turning up. And uh I mean a perfect example was when I won the Open and I had a meeting with McCormick the next day, and he said, uh I said to him, I want to go somewhere and contemplate life now, you know, for a couple of weeks. He said, There's no chance of that. He said, Westchester's on. Uh it's the biggest first prize in golf. Uh, you've got to be there next week, you've got to be in America, that's where the money is, and da da da. I came to America reluctantly, and of course I was like a a wet rag. I mean, there was no try left in the no beans left in the tin. And um missed four cuts in a row. What what should have been the best month of my life ended up being a a bloody nightmare. Yeah. And uh it wasn't until um the Ryder Cup later that year at Birkdale where the concession out and Jack conceded that, but I was unbeaten in in those matches. But it took me that long to get back to where I needed to be. And uh you know, it should have been uh a wake-up call for me, but uh I don't know, I I didn't have uh you know, I didn't really have anybody close to me that was uh uh knowledgeable enough to see the big picture. You know, my dad was, as I said earlier, a steel worker, he was a keen amateur golfer. Uh but there was nobody uh close to me that uh that that uh could help on that. And and of course in those days uh IMG was uh about the only game in town. There were there were a few others and we Bruce and I both know who they were and they got you know, they got into some of the players um and and and cheated 'em and uh put IMG in a position to say, well that could have been you, you see, that could have been you. And uh so we didn't know much about that player representation in those days. Um it was we were flying by the seat of our pants. And uh I uh you know, obviously uh I could have done that part of things uh better.

Mike Gonzalez 45:41

Bruce, that that's gotta sound familiar to you. You had the similar experience I know in our recent conversations with guys like Bill Rogers. Uh uh, we heard a lot of those same things from Bill, didn't we?

Bruce Devlin 45:53

The only thing I can say is Tony, you should have called me back then. You know, I I could have been I could have been your advisor. I'd already gone through that stuff with IMG. Yeah, well But you did but you did get to stay at a nice house when you came to Miami, didn't you?

Tony Jacklin 46:12

Absolutely. Uh the guy who drove me around was a bit of a crazy guy. I remember him putting car in reverse at a traffic light and nearly hadn't I nearly had a heart attack. Uh in that were a bit wild in those days. Maybe that's why maybe that's why I didn't read great days though. Yeah, they were.

Mike Gonzalez 46:41

Thank you for listening to another episode of 4 The Good of the Game. And please, wherever you listen to your podcast on Apple and Spotify, if you like what you hear, please subscribe, spread the word, but it went tell your friends until we teat up again for the good of the game. So long, everybody.

Tony Jacklin 47:04

It went smack down fairly. My head is as long as you're still in the stage you're okay.