Tony Jacklin - Part 2 (The 1970 U.S. Open)

Mike Gonzalez 0:14

Bill Rogers, we just had him on. As a matter of fact, we released his episode today to coincide with his win at um at Sandwich at Sandwich uh yeah 40 years ago. And and yeah, the way he says it, he said, look, he says, you know, I just felt pressured to chase the buck when I could chase the buck. So when I win the open, they want to march me out and take me all over the place. And you know, at the time, I think he's 29 years old, and and he just he said, Look, I could have said no, but I didn't.

Tony Jacklin 0:45

No, I know. And uh, funny enough, uh Tom Weiskoff, who you you know has not been uh well lately, but uh he came and stayed with me here uh last year for a night, and we spent some time reminiscing, and he he brought Bill Rogers up and he said, you know, it was no different from for him than it was for you. He got uh he got uh derailed by uh you know IMG pushing and pushing and pushing. And then in in in my case, uh you know, prior to leaving uh uh wising up uh, but they put me into Lloyd's of London, which uh was insurance thing. And uh anyway, that took care of everything uh I had. And uh so uh best thing is not to mention IMG out loud to me.

Mike Gonzalez 1:42

All right, so you you'd already mentioned that uh uh you went through PGA tour qualifying school in uh would that have been the end of 67? Is was it in the fall typically?

Tony Jacklin 1:52

Yeah, it was, and uh it was at the old PGA uh which is Ballon Isles now, I believe. And uh of course uh I'd befriended Jack in uh 66 at the in 66 the World Cup or Canada Cup as they called it then was in Japan and Yomiuri and I played with Peter Alice and we were paired up with Nicholas and Palmer one round and we became fast friends. Of course, Jack lived down the road from uh PJ National, so during that couple weeks, uh I think it was eight rounds we had to play to get the tour card. Uh in between we were doing a bit of fishing and socializing at at Jack's house. It was you know, it was always fun to be there. Um so yeah, once once I secured the uh and that was a strong uh strong year for the at the school because Bob Dixon, Bob Murphy, Ron Serrudo, a lot of those Walker Cup guys were at that uh school. And uh, but um, you know, I got the card and cleared off to Hawaii and started my uh my journey. I was uh newly married. I got married to Vivian in in 66, and um, you know, we had we had a honeymoon that was a three year three-year honeymoon going around the world with our fruitcases. Uh, when we first set off, and uh this is true. I mean, we went down to Australia and played Australia and New Zealand in the in the winter of 66, early 67, and we didn't have the money to stay in hotels. We we we got in touch with the clubs that were running the events and would ask them if any of the members would uh put us up, you know, and uh and uh that's the way we got around and we made some unbelievable friendships and uh uh it w it was just a pure adventure. I mean uh the the 66 I mean can you remember Len Thomas, Bruce?

Bruce Devlin 4:21

I can remember him.

Tony Jacklin 4:23

You talked about a crazy guy, oh man well we were down in New Zealand playing the New Zealand uh circuit, and and that was like two tournaments a week, two four-round events a week. And Len was on that uh tour, and uh come Christmas, we had nowhere to stay, and the mayor of Mount Monganui in uh in uh New Zealand, he was a hell of a guy, and he said, I've got a bungalow you guys can stay in. Two couples, there was just the four of us, right? Len and his wife and Vivian and I. And he gave us a car and a free account at the local grocery store for two for two weeks. I mean, I pretty much and we're right on the on the beach, and uh and I'll be darned if uh if I didn't go and uh beat Martin Rosink the first week in January for the New Zealand PGA, which was uh which was right there. And uh, but I mean the times we had and the friendships we made during that period uh were um you know they they lasted years. We get Christmas cards from people 10 and 15 years beyond uh beyond all that. So they were they were priceless times and uh you know I look back on that with absolutely the fondest of memories.

Mike Gonzalez 5:59

You mentioned Marty Rosenck, and uh I remember watching him. I catted in the in the 1969 and 1970 Robinson Open uh down at Crawford County Country Club in southern Illinois. I think Dean Beaman won that tournament uh a couple years later. But anyway, I remember seeing Marty Rosenck, uh, number five, I think perhaps was about a 538-yard par five. I think he hit driver eight iron. Yeah, he was he could hit it.

Tony Jacklin 6:26

He could hit it, and he had a similar swing to you, Bruce. He didn't he didn't get it all the way back, you know. Uh but he was a strong man. I remember playing in front of him when he partnered Mickey Mantle at the Westchester. Those two together, the the Mick and him together was oh boy, were they leaning on it? It was unbelievable.

Mike Gonzalez 6:48

Yeah. Well, you came right out of tour school then in 67, and boom! Uh you mentioned the Jacksonville Open. You won that in 68 at Deerwood Country Club by two over five players.

Tony Jacklin 7:00

Yeah, I mean, yeah, I I uh I I was sucking it up, you know, all this all this knowledge, and uh I'd had you know a pretty good experience in the UK playing through the mid-60s, but being able to play and work on your swing in uh better weather conditions uh uh and having the guys with uh answers uh around, you know, uh helped tremendously and uh I was I was hot to trot as I say. I was I was very, very ambitious, I was ready to learn and um hit the ground uh running. It still wasn't ideal though, because you know you could only spend you could only spend you c as Bruce note, you can't play more than two or three tournaments max and give a hundred percent.

Bruce Devlin 8:04

Yeah.

Tony Jacklin 8:05

You just need to go and and recharge. And when you when you don't have a a base, uh you know, the the the place to recharge is is home. And so I would I was traveling back and forward uh six or seven times a year, uh trying to juggle a schedule. Uh and then at the end of the year that we we were expected to go down to Australia and play the Australian Open then it was a major event, and Japan also, because that's where some of the contracts were, the easy money was, if you like. And uh, you know, you you it's like a treadmill of uh you you you never get off it, and uh time changes and all all of that. When I think about uh what uh I tried to do, it was uh it was it was crazy. I mean um it w it was crazy. And then and and and then I think it's fair to say uh you know, back in the UK in those days, golf was uh second to tennis. I mean I didn't even I I was I I had both opens uh together for a month. And I don't think anybody remembers it even to this day, to be honest. You know, I didn't win the BBC Sportsman of the Year Award. Some tennis player won that. And you know, golf wasn't favoured on the BBC in those days. There was a guy called Peter Dimmock, who was the uh he was the head hon show on BBC and he was anti sort of golf, and you know, golf took a back seat to um to other sports, not dissimilar now really. I mean, soccer is one, two, three, and maybe tennis comes next.

Mike Gonzalez 10:10

Well, I think it's fair to say that uh perspectives have changed and and uh at least since your uh good run in 6970 and those two major championships that uh people have come to appreciate those more a bit uh nowadays perhaps than they did back then.

Tony Jacklin 10:30

Yeah, well, maybe, maybe. Um I I know one thing that they played for a hell of a lot more money than we uh and you know, I suppose to some degree this you know, whether it's Billy Rogers is similar situation. Funnily enough, Billy and I the we ye the week he won, we stayed at we were the only two players staying at uh at this hotel and uh a new golf complex. I can't remember. I reminded him of that the last time. He remembers the name of the place. But um, you know, I I never had the the uh financial security that um and and you know you never knew how long it was gonna last. And certainly first prizes, you know, I I won£4,250 at the Open. Uh so that wasn't gonna pay your bills for uh twenty years down the line. So you you you know, one felt compelled to have to do these these uh things that we we did. And uh whereas whereas now you know you you you win a a million plus on a on a weekly tour event. I mean, our first prizes then were twenty thousand dollars, full purses were a hundred, and uh, you know, it's uh is a major difference. And and as I said uh earlier, we couldn't get on TV, whereas now these lads are you know, they've got a thing up here for so many million and some thing on each colour for you know that they're made up and uh it must be uh it must be a wonderful feeling, you know, that uh you know and you never know who's handling them, or you know, I don't know how many management companies are out there now, but uh um it it would be something that would be uh interesting to know. But you know, you across the board um the game has just exploded. It's it's been uh amazing to uh to to see what's happened. I can't to be honest, I can't really get my head around it. Um it's uh it's as simple as that.

Bruce Devlin 12:57

From a player's standpoint, Tony, uh you talk about the changes that have happened. Give us a bit of a feeling about uh the equipment and the golf ball and you know the the equipment and ball that we used to play with as opposed to today's players.

Tony Jacklin 13:17

Yeah, well, of course the game uh has got easier for the pros. I mean, it wasn't supposed to be that way, in my opinion. It shouldn't be that way. But uh everything that these innovations that came on stream with the bigger heads and you know the effort to make it easier for the amateurs, uh, you know, there was an insistence there from the uh shepherds of the game, if you're like the RNA and the USGA, that we should all be playing under the same rules and all the rest of it. Well, I can tell you now the golf ball goes 50 yards further. You I don't need to tell you that, you know it.

Mike Gonzalez 14:02

Yeah.

Tony Jacklin 14:02

Uh pros don't need a head the size of a shilly, and and and you know, and all this other stuff. I mean, I think there should be rules for the professional game personally, and and rules for for the amateur game. Uh like like baseball, the pros have to, and I don't follow it, but I think they have to have a wooden bat. And uh and but I I think uh that um I watch that's the one thing that you know um it disappoints me. I look at the TV, I'm going there from here now. I should be in front of that TV the rest of the but the the shots into the green the vast majority are are was lofted irons, nine irons, eight irons, nine irons, not eight, uh there's no par fives uh anymore, and it's it's a shame. And the shame of it is you know, the great golf courses that uh have you know are really not not a challenge to the modern professional, and there's thousands of them out there, and of course, by having to make them longer and longer, it's more expensive to cut the grass, it takes longer to play them. Everything goes against what's what they've allowed to happen. And uh I've been shouting it for uh 10, 20 years, nobody's listening. I don't know whether I hope Mike Juan's listening, uh he's just taken over CEO of the USGA. I uh Mike's a good friend of mine, and we're both uh captains at Ruiverfield Village at Jack's event. But uh whether Mike will address some of these issues uh at the USGA, I don't know. We'll see. But um it would seem to me uh that uh Mike Davis, you know, every time I asked him about it, he said, yeah, we're monitoring it. And uh well they've been monitoring it for a hell of a long time, and I wish to do something about some of it, because um, you know, I I don't know, you know, we used to the amount of par fours that we would have to hit four iron and five iron to, uh you know, talk about the trajectory of the ball coming into the greens with those clubs, and you couldn't hit those clubs out of the rough. No, you know, they wouldn't have it. You know, they would just turn the face, you know what I'm talking. So the game for the pros is just so much easier. Lines on the ball, I would I would eliminate I wouldn't let them put a line on the ball. In fact, for pros, I wouldn't let them put a line on the putter. Um, you know, they're tapping spike marks down now. You and I know that the greens were like battlefields when if you were in the late group back in the 60s, 70s, you couldn't guarantee a two-foot putt going in, uh, you know, the way that the Greens played. So everything is so much easier, and they're getting paid a hundred times more for doing so uh I'm and I don't blame the pros one bit, by the way. But I you know, you gotta do what you gotta do, and good luck to the lot of them. I mean, if they can uh secure a a lifestyle within a couple of years uh of playing some decent golf, well, good luck to them. I you know, I wish it'd been that way when uh when we were younger.

Bruce Devlin 17:51

Yeah, well, I know picking up on something you said earlier about the golf courses and how they've uh you know, all of the some of the great old golf courses that we used to play are now obsolete with all this length. And I and I always go back something that you've been involved in, Tony, and that's golf course architecture. When I first got involved in 1966, my first angle point, in other words, the first shot of a par four or five, used to be 240 yards. When I basically quit doing it uh three or four years ago, it was at 285 yards. And now that is probably too short, too. You're probably gonna probably gonna be at 310.

Tony Jacklin 18:39

Yeah, well, there's a lot shots of flying over bunkers at 300. So uh it it is uh it it it it I I just don't see why people don't see uh that this and when you talk about bringing the ball back because they're waiting for us to die off, so there'll be no nobody's talking about it. Yeah, nobody talks about it anymore. Then they're just sitting it out, they're just waiting for us to pop our clogs. That's all they're doing, really. I mean, because uh nobody can tell me that I mean we played that uh I remember Trevino and I, funny enough, it was at Sandwich, and it was that year that uh Billy Rogers won. We played a practice round together, Lee and I, and we had some of those Cayman balls in the bag.

Bruce Devlin 19:33

Yeah.

Tony Jacklin 19:33

You know, where the dimples came out.

Intro Music 19:36

Yeah.

Tony Jacklin 19:37

And but you could hit those balls, flat out driver would go 200 yards, and it would go, you'd get the trajectory, which is the same, you could slice it, you could draw it, it was uh, and you know, that that was a thing that Jack got into all those years ago. He sure did, and it fell as you know, as flat as a fluke, because it wasn't the timing was wrong, but the concept of being able to play a 4,000-yard golf course with a golf ball that uh went a maximum of 200 yards off the team with a full draft was was wonderful. I don't I don't understand why it hasn't been embraced. Um but you see, you look at your TV, and every advert is with the longest.

Intro Music 20:28

Yeah, yeah.

Tony Jacklin 20:28

We are the longest ball in the game, you know. Titleist, the number one Mr. Kushnit runs golf uh and has done for 20 odd years, and and it's just as simple as that. And and the public go along with it because you know the power of uh of advertising, it's uh you know, it hooks people and uh and then and a lot of people play golf just for the thrill of meeting the ball square on one or two times a day around. Oh look at that! You know, they think that that's golf, you know. Yeah, they don't keep score, they just to just keep batting it round.

Mike Gonzalez 21:10

If titlists uh today were to make a 1.62 ball, how far would you guys hit it with today's equipment?

Tony Jacklin 21:18

Well, God no, I mean, but well that's just you know, obviously when we did, or when we were allowed to play 1 uh.62, uh every American jack uh you couldn't afford yeah, you couldn't afford not to play it uh for the open, for example. It was it was too much to give away, you know, just on the distance and the fact that the wind didn't affect it as much.

Bruce Devlin 21:43

Right. You couldn't couldn't curve it as much either.

Tony Jacklin 21:46

That's right. Yeah, it was uh Yeah, every American uh Arnold and God, that's uh our era and uh you know, and of course Australia kept it uh Kept it the longest, I think, the one point six two. They they hung on a couple of years into the seventies, didn't they?

Bruce Devlin 22:06

Uh I think it was nineteen seventy-eight that they finally decided to go with the six eight.

Mike Gonzalez 22:14

Yeah. Yeah. So Tony, what sort of adjustment was it for you getting to learn to play the American ball?

Tony Jacklin 22:23

I was fine. Uh I was fine with it. Others w were not so. Um Peter Alice most of my predecessors in England were hands players. I mean Carton Henry. He was a dear friend, and I used to go down and stay with him in Portugal. His whole thing was get a big tractor tyre and just keep beating on this tractor tyre with with a a club. Well, and legs didn't come into it because like I said before, he was playing 95% of the tournaments he played were on Lynx Lynx golf courses. So it was all hands. Anyone knows Lynx that the bore the games played on the ground. Yeah. And so it was the pronating, pronating, keeping the club down, out of the wind. Uh so primarily you you know you were playing the game with uh with with your hands. And a lot of them couldn't adjust to uh with the with the big ball, you couldn't get away with that. You know, it was more of a full-body commitment, it was a swing, more than just uh, you know, a handsy kind of deal. Dave Dave Thomas struggled uh with it, Peter Alice struggled with it. Uh, you know, and I was playing with those guys during this period, and I saw it firsthand.

Mike Gonzalez 24:04

So let's just uh take you back again early in your career uh and I'll recount for our listeners uh some things with your professional record. 29 professional wins, including four PGA tour victories, eight wins on the European Tour, uh two senior PGA tour wins as well. Back when you got started uh on the American tour, you were the first uh Brit in quite a while to uh really devote that much time on the U.S. tour, weren't you?

Tony Jacklin 24:33

Well, I I was the first Brit to play golf full-time for a living. And I mean that's a big statement, but Peter Alice and Dave Thomas and Diries all had summer jobs or winter jobs. You know, they all represented a club and they went back when they weren't touring and uh, you know, uh made money in the pro shop and that sort of thing. Uh I was the first one to sort of uh back in uh in 63, I didn't I never had a a club job of pros, other than with Bill Shanklin for as long as I could stand it, or him. And uh uh I didn't I didn't uh have a a club per se to where I got a salary and paid. Uh I made a living solely from uh playing tournament golf. But the majority of the uh Brits, uh I mean Peter Alice didn't play, go off and play in the in the winter. Uh they stayed home. Um uh Peter was at Ferndown and then he was at uh for example, and he was at the uh club in Leeds, War Allerton for for many years, where you know they were salaried by those clubs. Dires was uh Tot uh I knew as many of those players from the clubs they represented as I did from their names. But uh so I was actually the first one to to you know make uh to rely on golf uh or the playing of the game to to make a living.

Mike Gonzalez 26:16

And your win in Jacksonville probably was the first win by a European player on the PGA Tour in a long time, if you count 1920s as PGA Tour.

Tony Jacklin 26:27

Yeah, well I'm not I'm not sure. You know, it was uh it was Varden and Ted Ray made a couple of uh visits. One was in 1913 and one was in 1920. That was the year Ray ha uh was able to win the uh US upon one of his visits. I mean those visits w were more about introducing the game to America uh, you know, than anything else that those trips that Varden and and Ray made. So uh in fact, you know, I I Ray in in many ways was a f forgotten man of golf. We we we uh we uh I I noticed as I talked to Jack about it, we put him in the memorial garden this year at uh up there uh uh at Muirfield Village. You know, Ray won that he won the Open Championship and he won the US Open and he was the first Ryder Cup uh captain. And uh basically, you know, people forgot about him, but he was uh he was it was remarkable that both him and and Varden came from this tiny island of Jersey where I lived for eight years, five miles by seven. Uh, you know, that they should both come from that little island is uh uh remarkable what they've done in for the history of the game.

Mike Gonzalez 28:00

I've got to ask you one quick question before we leave your first uh win at Jacksonville. You had an interesting play out of a greenside bunker on the last hole.

Tony Jacklin 28:10

Yeah, well, uh there was no let and I I and I I don't know, I I'm sort of thinking on my feet, but I'm thinking, you know, the last thing you want to do is uh skull away, not that I but it was there, you know, why why risk and I I knew I could put it. I didn't actually hit a good first part. I I misjudged it, and I I and in fact I I think I poke it the hole, but uh I wasn't about to uh you know uh screw all the hard work I'd put in for the previous three days up. I knew I could I knew I could not ground the putter and I could get the ball out of the trap because there was no lip there, so I took that option.

Mike Gonzalez 28:59

But uh doesn't that sound familiar, Bruce, what we just heard from Tom Watson recently?

Bruce Devlin 29:05

Same thing, yeah. Tom Watson and his uh his putter at the last hole where he looked like he was gonna win the open for the sixth time. He decided to put it out of the longer rough at the back of the green. So you know choose choose the way you think it's gonna work the best. Tony, uh I I gotta bring up the uh the uh US Open Championship at Hazeltine. There were so many things happened that week. Give us some uh recall some of the memories that you had from there. Aside from whooping everybody's you know what by seven shots.

Tony Jacklin 29:41

Yeah, well, um yeah, I mean it was a new course. What can I tell you? You know, uh Tutan B. Heffelfinger was a member there, and he was a member of a predominant member of the USGA. And that's how it went there. And uh old uh Trent Jones, the old man, did the golf course in in uh sort of early 70s. And uh it was uh there was uh it wasn't dissimilar to what you're gonna be watching at Sandwich this week, you know. There was a lot of blind t-shots over over corners and dog legs and so on and so forth. Um the the the main things that the first two things two main things happened. I played a practice round with Yancey and Weisskoff uh on Wednesday and I'm playing nicely, and Jim Yancey, who was Bert's older brother, walked with us and we come in off and I'm a bit sort of down, you know, my putting wasn't there, it was a bit sort of and and he's Jim said, Have you ever tried putting looking at the hole? I said, What are you talking about? He said, you know, address the ball so we go over to the putting green. Now we finished the practice round, dropped three balls, I dress the ball, da-da-da-da, look at the hole and putt. And I'd never believe it or not, I'd never done it. I was twenty-five years old, I'd I already want to major, and I'd never ever tried to do this. And I started doing it one after another after another, and I got this incredible feel for distance. You know now I couldn't bring myself I stayed there for uh an hour and a bit. Uh and I couldn't bring myself to do it in the tournament, but I did everything but do it. I s my eyes spent more time looking at the whole end and I would come back and you know, just short main. Anyway, that be that was the first thing. And the second thing was I woke up to a 40 mile an hour gale uh you know the first round, which was like uh it was like old home week. I'd been weaned on that in uh in England, you know, playing all those lynx courses. It was howling winds in island at Port Marnock places, you know, and I loved playing in the wind. It didn't bother me one one bit. So I got on the first hole, I got on the first grain, I had a 20-footer, and I'm trying my putting deal, and I give it the long look back, putting in in hello, hello there, TJ. And we know uh, you know, what a big part putting a confidence plays in putting. That's the best putting week I ever had. I had a little hiccup um during the final round in the middle of the round, but uh uh holding a long pot on the nine settled me. And apart from that, Dave Hill thought it was uh farmland, and um if he'd won, he was gonna drive up in a tractor and with a tractor and a plow, and he got a lot of publicity, probably more than I did. But but that didn't bother me one iota. I I never lost focus. Um It was the most nervous I've ever been, I can tell you that, going out with a a four-shot lead in the final round, and uh I knew I knew if I didn't get it done uh uh that would be uh uh something that uh that I I would have had to deal with uh for the rest of my life. But um as I say I I I hit the nine screen I had a four-iron onto the nine screen, uh it was a par four. Uh they've changed the course a couple of times since then. And I had this 30-foot part and I hit it far too hard. And in fact, I thought it was going to go over the hole, you know, and it hit the back of the hole and decided to go in. And I just felt the pressure roll off me. Um you know, it was almost like, you know, it's all yours to do now. And uh I enjoyed the uh and I remember standing over the final putt, again a 30 foot, and I said, what a hell of a way to finish a week this would be. And as I'm saying it, I'm doing it, and this thing was like right in. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. The best week of uh and I picked the best week I could ever do it because I think the US Open is the hardest one to uh to win, you know. I mean they they push you to the limits, to the outer limits of your patience and expectation. It's all it's all there. It's uh anyway, it was a uh euphoric uh week. And I remember going the next day to the airport in uh bus and having to share it with Gardner Dickinson.

Mike Gonzalez 35:34

Oh, there's another there's another guy.

Tony Jacklin 35:36

Yes, what a lovely chap. And he never mentioned a word about what happened the day before.

Bruce Devlin 35:46

No.

Tony Jacklin 35:47

In fact, he never said a word.

Bruce Devlin 35:49

At Tony Who?

Tony Jacklin 35:54

And then I saw then the next uh uh person I saw was Howie Johnson, who said, God damn, you made some putts last week, didn't you? I said I did you but I won by seven, you know. I said is it too difficult to say just well played? Yeah, I actually said that to him and he slurped off, you know, like uh.

Bruce Devlin 36:25

Tony, you mentioned you mentioned Dave Hill's name earlier. I I can't let the uh the US Open go at Hazeltine without saying one of his quotes. He said, Hazeltine was only missing 80 acres of corn and a few cows. They ruined a good farm when they built this course.

Tony Jacklin 36:48

Yeah. Well, of course, it it's and you know that it's it's very it's so exposed as well. Uh it certainly was then, Hazel Teen, and when that wind blew across the plains as it did the first day, I mean it set up I mean, you know, Palmer player Nicholas 79, 80, 81, the first round, you know, I mean, all I basically had to do after the first round was was hang on. And as you know, when you get off to a fast start like that, you get engaged at a higher mental level, you know, the you the anticipation, yeah, it's you know, you you you're concentrated, you you're automatically plugged in. And uh as opposed to when you shoot a 73 or 4, you know, you sort of say to yourself, can I get back in this thing? Or what? But I I you know I had the two-shot lead and I increased it to three and then to four and then one by seven. I mean, hell steat, it doesn't get any better than that. It was uh you know, it was uh it was the week of my life.

Mike Gonzalez 38:03

Bruce, you finished tied eighth.

Bruce Devlin 38:06

Yeah, I was only thirteen behind him, that's all.

Mike Gonzalez 38:10

So, what do you recall about that first day with that wind blowing?

Bruce Devlin 38:14

Oh, it was miserable. Tony was right. I mean, it was uh I think that's probably one of the hardest rounds of golf I think uh any of us have ever played uh under those conditions at that course. It was it was brutal.

Tony Jacklin 38:28

Well, you see, you you couldn't do it to get the greens to speeds today that you you wouldn't have been able to do it today because the ball would have oscillated and you'd have had to stop playing. But for some reason the greens, you know, they weren't that quick and nobody was complaining of balls blowing off the green.

Bruce Devlin 38:46

Right.

Tony Jacklin 38:46

So so we we got through it. And it it's interesting because we go back a long time, of course, but Ben Wright was the only reporter from from England, from Britain. And he was he was uh doing reporting for the Financial Times, but needless to say, he was doing all these other newspapers wanted the he never saw me play the tenth hole because there's a six-hour time lag between the UK and Minnesota, and he had to go and phone his uh copy in uh on the tenth every day. So but we he's still knocking on Ben. I think he's a bit older than you are, Bruce. And uh and we talk from time to time, and uh it's one of our fondest memories that uh that week because uh the world was much younger. He certainly was.

Mike Gonzalez 39:49

Was Dave Hill at the prize giving uh finishing second?

Tony Jacklin 39:53

I can't remember, and I don't care.

Mike Gonzalez 39:56

It's I I I I assume he was only because I think he got a little bit of a razzing at the award ceremony, and uh and as he's getting booed, uh his comment was if I couldn't moo like a cow better than you people, I would send myself to the slaughterhouse.

Tony Jacklin 40:14

Well, of course, you know, he was off the wall. I don't know what I don't know what he was uh I don't know whether he had a a bottle or something in his back, whether he was smoking stuff, but he would he would say stuff. Uh he could play golf, I'll tell you that. He was a good player. He was a hell of a player. But he was you know, you never knew what you were gonna get with him. It was uh, you know, I just I just kept my head down and uh uh I wasn't looking for intelligent conversation when I was playing alongside him.

Mike Gonzalez 40:51

Well, just finishing up uh Hazeltine, real quick, then uh largest winning margin at the time since uh 1921. So that was quite a long time. You led wire to wire, uh all four rounds under par. That first difficult day, you shoot one under 71. That was the best score in the field by two shots. As you said, you made everything.

Tony Jacklin 41:13

I doubled 17 as well.

Mike Gonzalez 41:15

Is that right? On that opening round. Yeah. Oh my. And uh finally, I in looking back at uh at Dan Jenkins' article in Sports Illustrated that he wrote about you, the title of the article was Tony's the Shark at Pasture Pool. Thank you for listening to another episode of For the Good of the Game. And please, wherever you listen to your podcast on Apple and Spotify, if you like what you hear, please subscribe. Spread the word Tell your friends till we hear the beginning.