Hale Irwin - Part 4 (1977 - 1984)

Bruce Devlin 0:22

Beat uh Steve Variato by one shot. And uh like Mike did some research there at that time. Steve Variato had won four hundred and fifty-four dollars in prize money on the tour. So that had to be a great week for him when you think about it, you know. I mean oh absolutely, absolutely.

Hale Irwin 0:45

Again, you you everybody out there complain. It's just some guys put it together more frequently than others, but they all can hit a golf ball. But I do remember standing in the 18th fairway. Uh I'd hit a good drive, and I I think I had a one-shot lead, and I'm watching Steve. He's up in the bunker, it's a par five. He's up in the bunker, up by the green and two, and thinking if he gets it. I'm watching, I'm just okay. If he gets it up and down, then I've that'll dictate what I do. If he doesn't get it up and down, that'll do something different. Uh anyway, it's a great bunker shot and makes a putt for a four. So he's birdie, so now we're tied, and I'm I'm back there in the fairway. Now, what do I do? It's a par four or par five, excuse me. Second shot's pretty much over water. Yeah. It has to be, there's a little bit of a miss to the right, but you don't want to miss it to the right. Flag's left. If you miss it right, there's a bunker. It's a long pitch shot. Um so I I pull out my trusty four wood and I put it in the middle of the green, and I two put for a win. But I'll never forget standing there saying, okay, what am I going to do? What am I going to do? Well, let's see what he does first. So when he got up and down, okay, don't back up. You know, this it's only a forewood. Come on, you've hit this thing hundreds of times. Hit it. I hit a really good shot right in the middle and got my two putt.

Mike Gonzalez 2:14

Had that happened early in your career, would you have gone for it, you think?

Hale Irwin 2:19

Good question. I got I'm I'm not probably so because that's kind of the way I'm wired.

SPEAKER_03 2:25

Yeah.

Hale Irwin 2:25

Uh I probably would have made a more um I wouldn't have given it quite the consideration, perhaps early in my career. I just kind of need jerk reaction to do it. Yeah. But I think later on you start weighing uh what are the what are the odds, you know, what are the consequences, what are the rewards, what what do you feel like? But when you're young, you you haven't you haven't hit that threshold yet.

SPEAKER_03 2:52

Yeah.

Hale Irwin 2:54

That's how you learn. Yeah, you have to go through those times.

Mike Gonzalez 2:57

Well, officially, this made you a uh a back-to-back winner, because I don't think they played this event in uh in 76. Um but uh uh you had to burdy the final two holes, didn't you, for the win?

Hale Irwin 3:12

Yes, yes. Well, actually, it didn't play in 76 because we played the U.S. Open at Atlanta Athletic Club. And so they didn't want to have two tournaments uh that close together in Atlanta.

Mike Gonzalez 3:25

Yeah, that was Jerry Pate in 76. That's Jerry Pate. Fire Baron's last hole, yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Um well let's let's go on later in the year with the Colgate Hall of Fame Golf Classic at Pinehurst. You win by five over Mr. Powerbelt, Leonard Thompson.

Hale Irwin 3:44

Uh kind of odd because uh I had thought earlier in the summer, I had thought that I was going to play in the event by virtue of my money winnings, et cetera, whatever it was, the points. And uh one of our staff members, uh Labor Harris Jr., I think you might have remembered him, Bruce, he came up to me several weeks earlier and said they had computed wrong and I was not in. Because I'd kind of made my whole summer around playing in this big event at Pinehurst, kind of taking this week off and not done any uplay. And and now I'm thinking my whole summer plan has just gone up in flames because this is a big tournament, it's an important tournament.

Bruce Devlin 4:26

Yeah.

Hale Irwin 4:27

And so the only way I was gonna this excuse me for the world's uh what what was this for? I for the World Series maybe something. How to get in. And I thought, oh, well, that's great. The only way to get in now, I've got to win at Pinehurst. So I go out the first day, and I think Gibby Gilbert had posted a 64, and I haven't even teed off yet. I thought, oh my gosh, yeah, I'm already behind and haven't even teed off, and I've got to win to get in the World Series, et cetera, et cetera. So anyway, I go out and I shoot 62 or three.

Mike Gonzalez 5:06

65, 65, yeah, 65.

Hale Irwin 5:10

Yeah, and then second day I shoot 62, I think. Mm-hmm. That's right. And so now they get to look at that score. One was a record at the time. Right. And I think again, it it just shows it showed to me, uh, even later on in my career, that you still have things to learn about what you can accomplish once you set your mind to it. That won't happen every time. But you you lay the groundwork for the right presentation, and you'll be surprised what you can do. And so that just defined with me, hey, this is what you have to do. If getting a World Series is important to you, this is what you have to do, okay, go do it. And uh it it brought my blinders in. I didn't see things, I just focused on what I had to do, and I I did it.

Mike Gonzalez 5:58

Yeah, yeah. Uh went down to San Antonio later that year, Bruce.

Bruce Devlin 6:02

Yeah, win the uh San Antonio, Texas Open at Oak Hills Country Club, there by two over Mr. X.

Hale Irwin 6:12

Oh yeah. We just come from the Piccadilly. Uh and I'd made the trip from uh London, stopped home real quickly, and went on down to San Antonio. And uh that was a quite a short golf course for us, Bruce, but it it was a lot of fun to play. Finish with a pile. Yeah, yeah. Uh and we it was just uh the kind of course that I think uh you could score low on, but not as low as you thought you should. Yeah, it was harder than what you gave it credit for. But I think all the players thoroughly enjoyed it. I think just the the title, the Texas Open, gave a lot of credibility itself. Uh but I think just X was one of those great guys that uh the tour thoroughly enjoyed Miller Barber, one of the more popular guys I think to ever play golf.

Bruce Devlin 7:10

So, Hale, after winning in the uh in San Antonio, uh we get to what I think we had discussed a little bit earlier before we were on the air, that what happened to s to Hale Irwin from 1977 to 1981? And we we we see gaps in the great players, and uh the answer obviously is you know you have to live, but not necessarily winning on the golf course. So was that a that particular time, was that a a rough time for you, or what was it?

Hale Irwin 7:47

No, no, it wasn't. Uh I I thoroughly enjoyed it. Uh you you you throw in the 79 U.S. Open win, uh which kind of certainly perks things up. But I had young children, and I was enjoying being home perhaps a bit more than what some people might expect. But I enjoyed that part of my life, my career. It it brought me great satisfaction. I had played well, I'd I'd put in a lot of effort. I wanted to enjoy my kids while they were young, and while I could, quote, afford it, not only just in money, but in time uh while they're young, because once they start school, now you you kind of lose lose some of that opportunity. So, no, I I I thoroughly enjoyed that trade of my life. And uh I would I trade it, would I do anything differently? Not one bit.

Mike Gonzalez 8:39

Yeah, that's great. I think a couple of other things that you could plug into that gap too, Bruce, after that win down Texas. Uh uh he goes right to the 1977 Ryder Cup at Litham. That's right.

Bruce Devlin 8:52

That's right.

Hale Irwin 8:54

Oh, it's uh you know, playing in Europe in the Ryder Cup is uh it's different. Well, again, you understand when the UK guys come over playing the uh here, now you go play over there. For me, it was a first-time experience. Yes, I had played over there uh in open championships in the Piccadilly, but when you're on the Ryder Cup, it's a whole different beast. Yeah. Uh and you find that not everybody there is pulling for you. Uh you find the things aren't quite quite uh the way you uh might have them at home. Uh it's a very competitive environment. It's uh I I'd want to stop way short of a hostile environment, it's just a different environment in which you find yourself. And uh and you can see how these these teams that visit the other teams' country, how they mold together and become a unit, because I think it's exactly what we did. Guys that you might, when you're home, have uh not an indifferent attitude, not at all. You might not share as many dinners and all that time together, but now you're thrown together uh in in one unit, and and you you start saying, Hey, I didn't know that about you. That's pretty cool. You learn other things about not only the player but their families or their wives, and you you learn how to respect that other player because they're just as happy to be on that team as you, and you you start sharing some values. And uh Dal Finsterwald was our captain, and uh FinC Pro was uh well, he may be the consummate professional uh when it comes to that kind of stuff, and did a great job in captaining and and uh leading the team.

Mike Gonzalez 10:39

And uh you had another good uh writer cup. Of course, you came into that one 4-0 and one, and then you went two-and-one here, but you ran into Mr. Barnes and Sunday singles too, didn't you?

Hale Irwin 10:48

I did. I did. Um, I must have lost because I don't remember it very well. Did I lose? You did. Yeah, that's I see. I I'll I'll try to remember the wins. I I try to forget those downside. Yeah, yeah, why why remember the bad? Think of the good, build on that. That's sort of the way I've always practiced. You know, I don't I don't go practice that much when I play badly, but I'll practice more when I play well because I want to learn, I want to do that more. Keep it. But anyway, Barnesy was just the kind of guy that he might not play well any other time, but you put him up against the wall and he was a tiger. And um he he just had that way about him.

Mike Gonzalez 11:37

Yeah, yeah. Well, that that was in in 77, uh 79, we talk about your U.S. Open win at Inverness. Uh you won the World Cup in Athens, Greece with Mr. Mahaffey.

Hale Irwin 11:49

We did, and and uh that was a pretty trying week because the when John and I got there and they had the the the welcoming ceremony um that Wednesday night. Um the World Cup committee uh took it upon themselves to pull the South African team out of the competition due to this the apartheid thing, and Dale Hayes and uh Bobby Cole uh were their was their team, both really nice guys. Um probably two guys that were as far away from the proponents of apartheid as you could possibly imagine, but just good ambassadors for not only their country but but the game. Uh and and that that was upsetting. And then on top of that, was the that year we if you remember, we had the US Embassy and uh Tehran was uh taken over. So there was uh a lot of ill feeling, uh a lot of anti-American sentiment came out of of that week, uh, which kind of surprised me. You know, here I'm thinking American, you know, we're loved all around the world. Well, that's not exactly the case. Um so John and I talked about do we do we as a team withdraw in protest to what they've done? Uh it just didn't seem right nor fair, particularly that Wednesday night, there was no warning, they just told them you're gone. And um I kind of made, and I'm not saying John didn't make, but certainly internally, I made I I again I go back to this don't start something you can't finish idea. But uh now I got focused on, well, I'm gonna we're gonna win this. And and then we'll prove a point afterwards. So John and I went out, we won it as a team. I won the individual, and I read a little statement at the press conference uh which I had prepared. And I guess maybe I knew I was gonna win. I don't know how I was gonna get it there, but uh just just stating that I thought it was uh very in very poor taste to what they did, and I explained that we were ready to withdraw in protest, but that didn't seem to be the the right way to go about emphasizing the fact that golf is beyond politics. Anyway, I get off my stump now, but it it still brings up, as you can tell, it still brings up feelings in me that uh that I I uh I just think golf is is one of the few activities, few sports in the world that can bring us together and pull us apart.

Mike Gonzalez 14:40

Yeah, well, you you talk about uh you take our listeners back to what was going on in the world, not all good at that time. And it reminds us of why we all felt such joy when our boys won on the on the rink and won the 1980 hockey uh uh title, beating the Russians, then beating Finland.

Hale Irwin 15:00

Yep, exactly. Uh it was uh and I think you you can't bury if you love your country, you can't bury that uh that zeal for it. You you it it you wear it on your sleeve, and I proudly wear that on my sleeve because I and yes, and Bruce has traveled the world, we all have not all of us, but many of us that have traveled the world, we can see deficiencies in in other countries. We can see things that we like in other countries, and that let's we have those things in our country as well. That doesn't mean you can't be proud and you work to make it better. And I I think uh when you see things in internationally, it puts things in perspective. And I think that's what we're lacking in today's world is perspective.

Mike Gonzalez 15:45

Yeah. So let's let's uh take you back to 79 again, and and and now you're in the your third Ryder Cup. Uh you're at White Sulphur Springs at the Greenbrier, of course, and uh for the first year they've added the Euros. Did you at the time really see what was coming with the Ryder Cup?

Hale Irwin 16:04

You could see it coming, yes. Uh, because they they had these upstart, some guy named Bayesteros. You know, they had and they had uh well, Panero, uh mostly Spaniards.

Mike Gonzalez 16:19

Uh yeah, yeah, guarito was the term.

Hale Irwin 16:21

Then the then they Bernard Langer was coming out. You know, they just had some players that were on the continent that you knew were either good players or were going to be. And uh that was their first entree into it. But we had a again a very strong team, and we just about had it wrapped up after day two. Um, and I think just shows the strength that our team uh showed. But shorter thereafter, it started turning around, and the the Euros really started uh dominating in in the uh all through the 80s.

Mike Gonzalez 16:56

Yeah, Billy Casper was your captain, and as you mentioned, it was Sevy, Sandy Lyle, and Nick Faldo, three of Europe's big five that came on the scene that year in the in the writer cup.

Hale Irwin 17:06

Yeah. Yeah, they're uh you you can't discount players of that uh that ilk. They are uh really good guys, but just fantastic players. And you you when you build a team around stalwarts like that, you're gonna have a good team. Yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 17:25

Bruce, uh let's come back to the winning record in the on the U.S. tour. We're we're now in 1981. I'm sure it's early in the year because uh uh they're at Wileya.

Bruce Devlin 17:38

He jumped right out, didn't he? Nice and early in 81. Hawaiian Open at Wiley by six over old long swinging Don January. Bones. The bones.

Hale Irwin 17:54

Well, uh I think Hawaii has been a part of my wife Sally, it's been part of our lives uh for quite a long time. I represented uh on the tour, the uh Kapalua on Maui for 24 years. And then after that, I represented Okalea on the Big Island for 10 years. Our children really learned about Hawaii young and in their young lives. So going to Hawaii for us was uh it wasn't returning home, I don't mean to say that, but it was returning to a place where we were very comfortable.

SPEAKER_03 18:31

Yeah.

Hale Irwin 18:32

And uh and each time we went there, it was it was a semi-vacation, but not really, because you did have work to do. But uh I just played very, very well that that week. It's just one of those weeks where uh you know I control the ball well, as we know the wind can get up there at uh Wileye. And uh I had uh I just played spectacular golf that week.

Mike Gonzalez 18:58

Hale, who who was the fellow that uh for a long time was the director of golf at Kapaloo and then uh later uh got involved running the tournament?

Hale Irwin 19:07

Gary Planos.

Mike Gonzalez 19:08

Gary Planos, yeah. Yeah.

Hale Irwin 19:10

In the beginning it was Craig Williamson, uh who had come from California and established uh Kapaloo in a very, very sound golf way. Uh did a very good job. Gary came on later on and uh promoted the the golf event uh there, the Kapalo International. Uh in the beginning, it's the Isuzu. Uh just you know they did a great job in putting golf on the map on in Hawaii and certainly on Maui.

Mike Gonzalez 19:39

Yeah. Uh he spent some time at my Almamado University of Illinois. He was an Evans scholar.

Hale Irwin 19:44

He was. He was and uh one of the great guys. Gary was uh a very close friend, and uh there just wasn't anything he wouldn't do for us. He was just a very kind man.

Mike Gonzalez 19:55

Yeah, terrific uh God rest his soul. Um so you come off of that win and you go to um Warwick Hills Golf and Country Club, where you find yourself in a four-way playoff at the 1981 Buick Open with Bobby Clampett, Peter Jacobson, and Gil Morgan. That's a pretty good trio.

Hale Irwin 20:14

Yeah, well, I it's it's odd to I not that I've forgotten about that, but the thing that just popped into my mind is probably one of the few times that I changed putters that week. Uh I had been using a bullseye throughout my career and went to it, it was still a bullseye, but a different bullseye, a little different shape, a little different weight, and and I I birdied the uh in the playoff, I birdied the the first hole to to win. And I remember over that putt, I'm thinking, it's still a strange putter. It just doesn't seem like I ought to have this in my hands. But there again, you have to have trust and you have to say, okay, I've been I've been 72 holes in this thing that's got me here. Why am I questioning it now? But uh I'll never forget that. It just why why have I got this putter in my hands? It didn't feel like home, but it was.

Mike Gonzalez 21:16

How long did you stay with that one?

Hale Irwin 21:18

It went away. I did I I didn't use it anymore. Is that right? Really?

Bruce Devlin 21:22

Just the one time.

Hale Irwin 21:23

I was not one to change clubs that frequently, and I just I I may have not put it away right away, but it it didn't last very long. I still got it. It's right over here in one of the bags here on the other side of the room, but I just uh it just didn't feel right. Uh it had initial success, but they I'll leave it at that. And it went back to what I'd used for a long time.

Mike Gonzalez 21:44

Yeah, okay. Well, let's take you back now to your fourth uh Ryder Cup. This was in 1981. Uh, you guys went over to Walton Heath. You were captained by uh uh Dave Maher. Tell us a little bit about what you remember from that experience.

Hale Irwin 21:59

Well uh Dave, again, he's uh he was a little bit like Dow Fensterwall, just the consummate professional. Dave was uh um was a very quiet team leader, uh very uh judicious in what he said and how he said it. Very polite uh and carried forward, I think, the traditions of what the Ryder Cup should be extremely well. I was impressed with Daymar as a captain. I thought he did a great job. And Bruce, you know him as as well as I did, maybe more uh what a gentleman he was. He was a great guy. And uh I think he represented himself and the game of golf in a in a great way. Um and uh but I I I remember that's where Trevino took Jerry Pate out uh and kind of schooled him on how to play. Uh he took Jerry out as a party, give me Pate, I'll take him. And and Lee tells a great story how he does that. He took him out, and you don't have to think, I'll tell you what to do, and they go out and they they beat a pretty good team. I can't remember the details, but uh you hear Lee tell it, and it's just hilarious. But I got paired one one round or one uh match with Ray Floyd, and we were playing the Spaniard team of Canazaras and Panero, I think it was. Uh and they didn't play well. And Ray and I were doing okay, but every time they'd hit it over the gorse and heather and Mr. Green, they'd get it up and down. I mean, those guys were they were like semi sevi by a steros, because sevi was probably the best at getting it up and down from anywhere. But I thought, do all these Spaniards do this? Because now they're really good. Well, anyway, Ray and I, you know, I think there's probably true, two pretty determined guys. Um, we got our butts beat. We played, didn't play particularly well, but we played uh the kind of golf that you you would hope to play uh in any match, but these guys were just tenacious. They weren't giving it up, they got it up and down when they needed to, they converted when they needed to, and and and Ray and A walked off with a loss. So uh but the team won. It it was uh it was a very, very good week again, spending that kind of time after this was my fourth one, so I think I appreciated at least as much as I had any of the others. Yeah, yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 24:29

Of course, uh as we alluded to, the the Ryder Cup was really getting ready to change. It was right on the cusp because uh they were then going to be heading in '83 to PJ National. Nicholas was going to be the captain. They brought in Tony Jacqueline. Uh Tony, of course, insisted to the guys running it on the European side that they be treated like the Americans. So they flew the Concord, ate first class, had a team room dressed like professionals. And uh while they didn't prevail, they came close and it set the stage for what was a major upset at Jack's place at Mearfield in 85 when Jack again was captain. And we've talked to most of that team. And I can remember uh, I think it was Lanny Watkins that said that was probably the most painful loss I ever experienced in my whole life.

Hale Irwin 25:15

I can understand. I was not on that team, but it was painful to watch it because you know you certainly know your players, and by then you you knew pretty well the players on the other team, and uh it was bound to happen. I think we we were all sensing that the team talent was getting very much to uh uh an equal level, and those guys enjoy winning, they enjoy playing, they're all great players. You don't you cannot take talent away from talent, and uh they knew how to win, and they they were creating their own momentum, they were starting to ride that wave, and uh that was the week where it broke.

Mike Gonzalez 25:55

Yeah, yeah. Well, let's go on to to uh 1982. Um I think this came early in the year during the Florida swing. We're talking about the Honda Invery Classic. Uh Jackie Gleason had been involved in this tournament. Uh, this was a win by one over George Burns and Tom Kite. In '82, I might have been down there because I remember before the tournament started watching Lee Trevino in a corner of the range hitting balls by himself. And we asked him if he was playing. He said, No, Herman forgot to mail in my entry.

Hale Irwin 26:35

Oh well, okay. I'll have to remind Lee of that next time I see him.

Mike Gonzalez 26:43

He put it all on Herman's back, I'll tell you that. He didn't have an assistant, obviously. You guys uh, you know, you nowadays you could have had your your fitness guy or your nutritionist or your secretary or one of your team members handle it for you.

Hale Irwin 26:57

Well, Lee and and Herman, they were uh they were a pair. They were they were a funny pair. They sure were.

Mike Gonzalez 27:04

Well, what do you remember about beating George Burns and Tom Kite that year at that is in Lauder Hill, Florida, right? Uh right outside of Lauderdale.

Hale Irwin 27:14

Yeah. I'm just Nicholas, was Nicholas and Jones were they in that event? Was that the Jackie Gleason? Probably, I would think.

Mike Gonzalez 27:30

Yeah, it was called the Honda at the time, I think. Yeah. I'm not sure when that changed. I don't remember when that changed.

Hale Irwin 27:36

Seems to me like it was called the Honda the next year. Because the year after I won, because then the winner of the tournament when it became a Honda was presented a Honda as part of the prize money. So I went in and said, Hey, I won this last year. Where's the Honda? Don't you think I ought to get a Honda? And they did because the reason I was stumpy for that was our daughter was just turning 16. I wanted to get her a car that she could drive. So anyway.

Mike Gonzalez 28:08

Well, it it went from the the Jackie Gleason in in 1980, and then for one year it was the American Motors Invaria Classic. Then for two years the the Honda Invaria Classic. Uh, when you won an 82, Miller won an 83, and then it became the Honda Classic.

Hale Irwin 28:24

Whenever it was, yeah. But anyway, yeah. Uh I I I think it was uh a well-attended, well-received event down there. Um there were some things that that I recall just for whatever reason on that golf course, one of the times uh I teed off on number 10 and walked up to my ball, and I got probably I don't know, 12, 15 feet from my ball, and I saw it move. It rolled. And I'm thinking, what in the world? I I don't think I made it move. But so I I called for an official and I said, This is what happened. I walked up here, I I I didn't pull any leaves, I didn't don't think I made it move, but just by my very presence of walking up, maybe it did. He said, Well, you'll have to make that call. And I thought, geez, I can't I can't live with myself if I don't say I made it move. So I took the penalty and went on, because now I put it behind me because it to me it's just you know part of our game is is taking care of the game and it's playing by the rules. Absolutely. If I felt like any part of me was not doing that, I was gonna think about it the rest of my life. Not just that day, but the rest of my life. So I said, okay, I'm taking the penalty and moving on. And that's probably one of the best things I did. Um I think there's just some things that happen on golf courses, and we see it all the time, where you might raise a question, and and I didn't want to be a part of that question. I wanted to be a part of the answer. And I I just couldn't couldn't do it. But it was uh it was a good week.

Mike Gonzalez 30:09

Yeah, 1900 with the penalty.

Hale Irwin 30:13

And uh actually it's at the last hole I had hit my drive. I was still in the fairway, oddly enough, but um I was just no, I wanna take that back. I was just in the light rough, and I was stymied by a tree kind of in front of me, not but I'd have to hit a big slice around it, or I could take a low shot and go under it, but if I went under it, then there was another tree that I had to worry about. But it seemed like the big slice was dicey, and if I got under this and I hooked it just enough to miss that tree, I'd I'd be fine. I had this opening to run it on the green. But you know, I'm thinking now I've really I've got a little five iron, I'm not that far, but maybe it's 140 yards or something. So if I punch the five and I hook it and get around there, I'll go under it, hook it, and get it around that tree, under the, and now I'm thinking, but now it's coming in hot. But because it's hooking a little, it's going to be kind of bouncing into the grain of the grain of the grass. Because we know that Bermudo grass grows to the southwest, so I'm yeah, okay, but I don't want it bouncing once it gets to that little false front. I want it running up the false front. So anyway, all this stuff is I'm just it's clicking like this in my mind. Just like tut and this. Well, it's exactly what the ball did. It went under that tree, hooked into that, started slowing down, got to the front of the green, rolled up, rolled up to about six feet from the hole. Oh boy. And then, I don't, if you were doing the broadcast, Bruce, you might have said, now he has this tap in. I'm thinking I watched that replay and said, and he taps in. I thought, tap in, you kidding me? Six feet for a week, gotta be kidding. But it's probably one of the shots I remember of all the shots I played in my career. That one, just technically, I thought about to the minute detail about the grain in the fairway and the ball running and all that, just and it worked. Uh just incredible.

Mike Gonzalez 32:22

You guys must be very glad that there isn't that much processing for every shot you hit out there.

Hale Irwin 32:29

Oh, it there are times where you can't think of anything. There's just it's just nothing. The rock just won't think. Yeah. And there are other times it just clicks it out so easily. Um, and you wonder, why am I not like this all the time?

Mike Gonzalez 32:45

Yeah. Isn't it great when a plan comes together? Well, let's go on to 1983 and talk about your first win up at Jack's Place, Bruce.

Bruce Devlin 32:55

Beat a couple of pretty good players, Ben Crenshaw and David Graham. Uh by one shot.

Hale Irwin 33:03

Never heard of them.

Bruce Devlin 33:04

Never heard of them. Never heard of them. Just a couple of Hall of Famers. Never heard of them. A couple of Hall of Famers, that's right. I had a great track, too.

Hale Irwin 33:14

You know, I had lost in our the inaugural tournament at the memorial. I had lost in a playoff. Um I played well, but I lost in a playoff. He had uh the playoff consists of four holes and then an aggregate score. So you played for whoever was was the winner. And um Roger Maltby and I were the the two players, and and Roger ended up winning. Uh and I and I felt, well, geez, you know, I I should have won. I I kind of gave that one away. And so later on, you know, I I come back and I and I win there, and I'm thinking, okay, that scratches that loss off the board. And then darn if I don't lose another playoff to Kenny Perry later on. And uh and then I win again in '85. So I you know, I had great success at the Memorial Tournament, but that that win in '83 really to me was uh I felt really good about that one because A, it's a Jack's course. It's you know, Nicholas has got the name, and the course itself was uh demanding enough, and it sort of eased the pain from that that first uh loss to Roger.

Mike Gonzalez 34:29

Yeah, yeah. Of course, Jack's uh quite proud of that place. Uh I mean, 41 years later, the golf course is certainly different. They've made a lot of changes to it over the years. You think the changes have been for the better?

Hale Irwin 34:41

Well, if I go out there and play that now, there it's like a whole series of par fives. I can't get to any of the par fours. It's so bloody long.

Bruce Devlin 34:51

That's true.

Hale Irwin 34:52

Well, he has uh changed it. You know, I I think uh there was enough room, and Bruce, you you're in the design game, you know this too. There was enough room left on the golf course to expand it.

Bruce Devlin 35:03

True.

Hale Irwin 35:04

Uh they have made some structural changes, you know, different bunkering, uh, moving some greens, some uh done some things that have stiffened up the the uh golf course. Uh but I think he he has made that course, uh he's adapted it to today's game. Uh it would have been impossible in yesterday's game, but at the same time, uh had he not changed it then today's players, it'd be a cakewalk around there. But at the same time, uh uh the adaptation that Jack has put at the Memorial Tournament has brought about, I think each year brings out a deserving winner because you have to play well. I I've been up there the last couple of years during the tournament, and it does not look easy. Uh and the kind of golf that has to be played is not necessarily in the air with every shot, but that's the way Jack played his golf. It wasn't a lot of run-up shots, but it was a lot of you know, you hit from A to B in the air. And if you don't do that well, you're not going to play Jack Nicholas' golf courses very well. If you're a low ball, run it up kind of player, uh, that's not what's required at the Memorial Tournament.

Mike Gonzalez 36:14

I think the first time, Bruce, we had Jack on the program, it was right after, during COVID, right after they pulled John Rom aside after his Saturday round and said, sorry, you tested positive. You're leaving the tournament, but you can't play tomorrow.

Bruce Devlin 36:30

That was tough. That'd be a tough one name. Yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 36:35

He handled it well. To his credit, uh, I thought Rom handled that quite well. Let's let's go on uh next year. Uh you're in the California swing and you go out to Pebble Beach. And Bruce, you played here a few times, uh the Bing Crosby.

Bruce Devlin 36:48

Yeah, a lot of times. That was a lot of fun. Uh I know Hal played there a lot too. And you know, there's another golf course, Hal, where you could shoot a high score too. But you know, I always felt like that was a pretty good test of golf as well.

Hale Irwin 37:04

Well, it was. I think you, especially if you get some elements, if you're exposed to some of the elements that came in, particularly the wind, and you you throw the rain in there that we seemed in the old days, it seemed like that's all we got was wind and rain.

SPEAKER_03 37:17

Yeah.

Hale Irwin 37:18

Um we can go back to many times in the 60s and 70s when if you had a nice day, that was the the change. Uh it was always cold, always windy, always wet. Uh if it didn't rain, it certainly was wet underfoot. And boy, you see, you talk about climate change. We can certainly see it on the tour. If you've been out there long enough, you can see some of the courses that they play now are played in spectacular conditions.

unknown 37:44

Yeah.

Hale Irwin 37:44

But at the same time, uh I agree with you, Bruce. I think Pebble presented a whole series of different looks, uh, certainly depending upon the the weather, but uh uncomfortable holes, some of them were. I thought uh that that stretch of eight, nine, uh that little hole number seven. It's a it's it's what a hundred and ten yards down the bloody hill. That's right. What's the longest club you ever hit at number seven?

Bruce Devlin 38:17

I hit a five-iron one year. I was playing with and it's what a hundred and ten-yard shot or something like that? 110 yard shot. You know, not you know, it's one of those chip chip five-iron things to keep it down. You couldn't get it in the air. As a matter of fact, I think it's I think some of the people were trying to just run it down and put it in that front bunker and you know, try and make a par that way rather than trying to put it on the green. It was miserable.

Hale Irwin 38:46

Yeah, I that's what I've hit a five-iron there, but I've heard stories of uh the older players in the old days, they just hit something off the T to try and run it down that sandy bank to get it down there somewhere.

unknown 39:00

Yeah.

Hale Irwin 39:00

And try to make a just don't make the big score, just maybe a three, but more likely a four, and be happy with that.

Bruce Devlin 39:06

Yeah. Yeah, it could it can be a miserable little shot, that's for sure.

Hale Irwin 39:11

Oh, you throw the bloody ball on the green, and now you're hitting a five iron, or it could be a two-iron, you don't know what to hit. It's silly, isn't it? Give me a club, Caddy, and I'll hit it. But we uh we have it's a like you say, I think it was a it was a great uh spectacle for the the fans, particularly when they had uh the dignitaries there, they had the uh the celebrities there. It was a a great time to hang around, and you get to see let's say some of these celebrities away from their spotlight and put them in your spotlight, and and uh some of them are actually real people.

Bruce Devlin 39:50

I got to play with Mr. Martin, Dean Martin for ten years in a row. That was quite a quite an experience. Quite an experience.

Hale Irwin 39:59

I bet it was.

Bruce Devlin 40:00

Yeah. It was a fun time.

Mike Gonzalez 40:04

Who were some of your amateur partners, Hale? Did you have a regular or did you play with a few different ones?

Hale Irwin 40:09

Uh in the the my very first one, uh I say this, and this is not a disrespect, but you remember George Schultz and and he had the Peanuts cartoon. Um well, one year he had in his cartoon, uh I forget who the character was, but I think it's the little bird. What was the little bird's name? Um anyway, he said some people get Tennessee Ernie Ford or Sandy Colfax as a partner. Who do I get? I got the ophthalmologist from San Jose. Who got the ophthalmologist from San Jose? I got that. That was my partner that year. A really nice gentleman. But I remember we played a practice round and I thought, boy, this guy can play. Then we got it, the bell went off, fling, and the game shattered. Uh oops. Oh, it's a different game when you're playing it for real. And uh, but uh very nice man and enjoyed it. But I I've played with other people. I I had a uh a partner by the name of Darius Keaton, D. Keaton, who happened to live in there and uh uh was one of the kindest people, probably one of the most genuinely kind people I've I've ever met in my life, who was uh he took me as in 1970 as the the loser down in LA, which we've referenced. Uh Crosby came to him, Bing came to him and said, How would you? He was a friend with Bing. He said, How would you like to play with this kid? Just sure, I'll play with him. And I first met Dee uh on the first T, the first day on Thursday morning, and we became fast friends from that point on until he passed away. Just one of the most remarkably nice guys I've ever met. Um and it did a lot for me and my family throughout uh my career. Yeah, but I wouldn't trade that relationship I had with Dee for anything.

Mike Gonzalez 42:09

Was there anything like the Crosby in terms of the experience for you guys?

Hale Irwin 42:15

Well, not for me. No, not for me. I think that was I think just the the the consummate entertainment, uh but you can call it a golf term, but it was consummate entertainment. Uh another another story that I I think uh goes a long way as you see a lot of these people that are stars. Uh you you uh Clint Eastwood, who was very good friends with with D. And uh I got to meet Clint through golf, through D, and find out the other side of a Clint Eastwood. We think says, Well, these stars don't have a side, except no, they they have a life, they have something on the other side of that. And Clint was very down to earth. I I very much enjoyed that. And uh Jonathan Winters, D had over for a dinner one time. Now, there was a guy that took his character to dinner. And really, he you just couldn't you couldn't laugh enough. He was just the funniest guy you've ever been around. Um oh there's just so many of those people, and and Bruce, you know this, being around Martin, he was probably surrounded by those, by the rat pack anyway.

Bruce Devlin 43:25

All sorts of different things happened.

Hale Irwin 43:31

And I that was part of the allure, I think, was uh I President Ford, when he he came out of office, uh Dee and and uh President Ford were were good friends, and they had the inauguration on a Thursday, and uh Dee asked, Well, who who can play in in his place? Because or first way he called me and said, Who could play with Ford? I said, Well, uh, I said, it better be a Republican. And somebody that understands it. And I called Arnie and asked Arnie if he had played with him. And he said, sure, he'd love to. So uh but he couldn't play on Thursday. So Mark McCormick, who we mentioned earlier, he came in and played in Ford's Place on Thursday. Then Dee and I went out to the Monterey Airport on Friday and met Air Force One coming in. And literally the red carpet rolled out, and President and Mrs. Ford came off, and we we got to stay in Dee's house with with them that week. And just the whole thing was just such a marvelous, kind of a dreamlike affair. And Gerald Ford and Betty Ford were two really nice people, just as down to earth as they could be. So that's that's the kind of thing you can get through golf. You you get to see the other side of of the press clippings and what you might see on television. You get to see the other side, and it's it's often uh very entertaining, very interesting, and and rewarding.

Mike Gonzalez 45:03

Thank you for listening to another episode of For the Good of the Game. And please, wherever you listen to your podcast on Apple and Spotify, if you like what you hear, please subscribe, spread the word, and tell your friends until we tee it up again for the good of the game. So long, everybody.

Outro Music 45:25

Whack down the fairway. It went smack down the fairway. When it started to slice, just smidge off line. It had it for two, but it bounced off nine. My candidates, as long as you're still in the state, you're okay.