Sir Bob Charles - Part 3 (The Majors and The Senior Tour)

Mike Gonzalez 0:16

Well let's just uh uh before we can cover your next win on the U.S. tour, several other victories, and we we can't cover them all, but uh I know in 72 you won the John Player Classic at Turnbury by one over Gabe Brewer and Peter Oosterhaus. Uh I recall the next year Cootie won there, Charles Cootie won there in one of his infrequent visits to the U.K. in some really crazy wins in the second round. Were you guys there for that? I was, yeah.

Bruce Devlin 0:49

I don't think I was there for that, no.

Mike Gonzalez 0:52

I mean Charlie sounded like it was uh, you know, 50, 60 mile an hour gales that were taking tents down and so forth.

Bob Charles 1:00

That would be correct. And um No, he played great golf in the conditions. I don't know what the scores were like, and I don't even know what how I played, but um I I was defending and uh uh and I was there. Uh but the uh the year before um I was playing with Peter Oosterhaus in the final, the just the two of us, and um it was up and down. He got in front and I tied him, but uh I think uh uh he his demise was the seventeenth hole of power five, um which he hit it way, way into trouble on the right, and uh almost took him two shots to get back on the fairway. So I went to the uh eighteenth green with a um a lead. Yeah, obviously a one-shot lead actually. And uh in those days the uh well the eighteenth at Turnbury was a straightaway hole. Uh they made it a dog leg for a while, but uh and it's now back to a straightaway hole. But uh a power four, which I had to hit a uh three-wood uh into the wind, uh second shot, and it was probably one of the best three-wood fairway shots I've ever hit. Uh I managed to knock it on the green uh into the wind. So uh went two-parted for a four, which to give me a one-shot uh win.

Mike Gonzalez 2:31

I wanted to mention briefly this uh having have you comment on the 72 Dunlop Masters for a couple reasons. One, you won that by two over Tony Jacklin, who we visited with on the show as well, and then another because uh a guy named Norman von Neida, who you probably knew and Bruce was quite close to, had won this event, I think, at Stunningdale uh 24 years before. Uh he talks about uh his final round 63 being the finest round of his life. But uh tell us a little bit about uh uh what you remember about the Dunlap Masters uh beating Jacqueline.

Bob Charles 3:06

Uh well it was a a smaller field than normal, I think. Uh don't remember much about it. It was the following week after the John Flyer Classic had the same caddy and uh the same putter, same clubs. Uh and uh no, it was uh it was a another satisfying win. Anytime you win back to back weeks, it's uh uh it it it's gotta be proud of that uh effort. And uh No, in fact the Dunlop Masters is um uh quite a w in those days it was a very prestigious event on the European tour. Uh in fact I've got a silver tray uh in my cabinet. Trophy dis where it display my trophies, and the silver tray has got inscribed uh everybody's signature. And uh I that's interesting. Look at it and see uh who who I beat. Uh which obviously Tony Jacqueline and uh I know there was a balisterra, so but I don't think it was Sevy, it was a little bit before he came along. Yeah, I know there's a good good lineup of players there reminding me of of who it was that I was able to beat that particular week.

Bruce Devlin 4:28

So Bob, then in uh in 1973, you had a heck of a year. You won the South African Open in Durban, Scandinavian Open at Rothingham Golf Club City of Auckland Classic and the New Zealand Open. So seventy-three was a memorable year for you.

Bob Charles 4:50

Well it it was, and um seventy-three I was um about to give up my US players card uh um um um for various reasons. But um, we were still living in where the where the heck were we in 73 and in Dallas. But I think I virtually made up my mind to um I was about to lose my my players card in the USA and uh uh I virtually made the decision to move the family to uh South Africa and uh and play the European tour, which I did virtually for ten years before senior uh before the senior tour. And uh I don't know whether it moved or or in that particular year, uh but yeah, winning the South African Open 73 was um a big thrill. Um on a uh one of their better golf courses, uh Durban um Country Club uh right by the ocean, Lynxy style golf course, and uh Graham Marsh uh was chasing me um all the way. And uh that was uh uh a good win. Uh anyway anytime you win a national open I think you you uh Bruce would uh well he won the Australian Open, which uh I played in a few times but never was able to win. But uh winning the Canadian, the South African, the British, New Zealand opens, uh well Swiss and uh Scandinavian, uh you know, national national events, uh they uh uh they generally take uh mean more than uh just regulatory events.

Bruce Devlin 6:53

Couldn't agree more with you, Bob.

Mike Gonzalez 6:55

And Bob, you did pretty well in that New Zealand Open event uh in 73. Of course, you won by four over Ian Stanley, but uh you had won that as an amateur 19 years before. You'd won it as a pro in 66 and 71, and Bruce Devlin, you played there, I think, and won in 1963.

Bruce Devlin 7:14

I did, yes. That was uh that was uh that was my as Bob said, uh that was my second open, and uh I won the French Open. So like he said, it's always nice to have the open championships on your belt. And uh certainly Bob had a lot more than most people, I can guarantee you that.

Mike Gonzalez 7:37

Bob in 74 at uh at Greensboro at Sedgefield Country Club, you beat a couple of future Hall of Famers by one, Raymond Floyd and Lee Trevino.

Bob Charles 7:48

Yes, well, another another great week. Uh the interesting theories uh thing there is that um I was well one of the reasons why I was uh leaving the US tour and and going to the play the European Tour was the golf courses were getting longer and longer and my T shots weren't getting uh uh longer with the golf courses, so I found them a little I found myself a little bit out of my depth. When you can't reach the par fours in two shots, it's time to uh to rethink your game. And uh but it so happens that at Greensboro in that particular year I was for some reason able to reach uh some of the par fives in two. Uh I'm not sure whether it's the ninth or the uh eighteenth uh that they played downhill across the creek and up up as um so uh I had a great scoring week. I think I must have at least two or three rounds in the sixties. Uh and uh no, the putter was uh working well and uh and hitting power fives and two uh makes a huge difference to uh one's scoring and and one's thinking on a on a golf course. So uh yeah, I came to the last hole with uh was I tied? Uh I'm not sure, why either one ahead, uh, but um I think playing with Ray Floyd, Trevino, I think, was in the clubhouse and uh I hit my second shot safely on the green. Uh well not not too close, so it must have been another forty footer or thereabouts, and but uh Ray missed the green and uh overshot it actually and I uh two putted to uh to win by a shot. So that yeah, that was my final uh victory on the on the US tour, and uh uh I played only limited golf on the tour after that. Well they did go back, obviously, that got me in the Masters. I did go back and the following year played Augusta and a few other tournaments, but uh by by now I'd uh uh was concentrating on the European tour.

Mike Gonzalez 10:02

So I think by then you guys were probably ready for Gary Adams to invent his metal wood and maybe get a big berth in your hands or something, huh?

Bob Charles 10:11

Yeah. Yeah. Well well uh and uh of course uh um Ely um uh Callaway. Well he was Yeah, Ely was well uh what year did he come out with the uh the Big Bertha? I'm I'm not sure. I'm not uh but uh I was I was one of the last people to uh I continued using a persimmon for probably uh better part of twelve months after the uh the metal uh uh Big Bertha uh came into use. And uh uh I finally succumbed to um modern technology. I don't know exactly when, but uh it took me a year, uh best part of a year to um to succumb to um technology and the modern game.

Mike Gonzalez 11:06

So if we can, Bob, I know you had a few uh victories uh still in other places around the globe. You mentioned uh uh Greensboro being your final win in the U.S. But uh if we can maybe we just uh uh spin around, talk about uh some of the other major championships briefly, and just give us your impressions, uh starting with the Masters, and uh uh tell us a little bit about your experience at Augusta, what you thought of the golf course, what you thought of the tournament experience, and uh and how that sort of sets amongst all the majors for you.

Bob Charles 11:36

Uh right. Well, Augusta, I played uh 15 times in the Masters, and uh and I the only reason I can remember that is because 15th was the best finish I I had there at Augusta. 15 Masters, 15th was my best finish. I felt out of my depth, totally out of my depth there. Uh when I went there in 1958 as an amateur, uh the golf course then was uh I believe 6,900 yards. I think I've got a card from uh 1958. So it was it was hugely long, and then before long it was over 7,000 yards. I I don't know what it is now. Is it 72, 7300 yards?

Bruce Devlin 12:15

75 something.

Bob Charles 12:18

75, yeah. Well, uh I was always out of my depth there, and uh uh I think probably it didn't suit my game in as much as uh during my early days I drew the ball from left to right, and uh most of the dog legs were kind of right to left, and and I was never getting that extra roll with right to left t-shots, which which you can get or still get actually. Um and I could always I never reached never went for a uh a par five and two. Uh I do have two trophies from Eagles uh there, uh, but the Eagles were holding out third shots with wedges. Uh they certainly they certainly weren't putts uh from a reasonable distance. But uh no, I I love being there, love playing there, and the atmosphere, and and uh it was just a great, great golf course, but uh it's not the sort of golf course that uh well mind you when I say shorter hitters, of course Billy Casper managed to win uh being a shorter hitter. Gary Player was never a long hitter, managed to win, Mike Weir. Uh there have been uh players in the past, but they've they've had exceptional um uh uh short weeks uh on on the greens, yeah, with their short games. Yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 13:35

Yeah, I would suspect you were probably fairly comfortable on those greens there as well.

Bob Charles 13:40

A little bit too quick for me. I w I was uh more of a slow green putter than the uh fast greens. I I um I like to be a w with greens being that quick, uh what what eleven, twelve or whatever on the stint meter uh my I had a long flowing stroke. And uh I think you had to have a a shorter, uh more of a tapping stroke uh with faster greens, and uh uh mind you Ben Crenshaw would argue against that, I suppose. But uh I preferred uh you know on a on a four or five foot putt, I I like to make a decent backswing, but there it was hard to make a backswing on a four or five foot at Augusta. You you just had to set the ball rolling. So uh it it wasn't it wasn't, as they say, it wasn't really my cup of tea, the speed of the greens there.

Mike Gonzalez 14:35

Yeah. Let's talk a little bit about the U.S. Open, where you had 12 starts and two top fives, I think uh two third place finishes, one in 64 at Congressional. Of course, that's the year people will remember that uh it was the long day in the in the exceptional heat, and uh uh Ken Benchuri uh, you know, really sort of gutted it out to uh to get a win there. Um what do you remember about that championship?

Bob Charles 14:59

Well, it was pretty hot. I talked about Dallas in uh the middle of summer. Uh Washington was also uh pretty hot uh well into the 90s uh that particular week, high humidity. And uh I opened up with a 40 on the front nine well power, I think, was 70 there from memory. And I opened up with 40 on the uh on the front nine. And uh I was about ready to uh you know this is this is too tough. But I did manage 30 32 on the back nine, so that revived me from my um uh depression. And uh in fact I think I had 72 the next round and uh was you know got into reasonable contention and uh I wound up with um uh a good round in the third or fourth round and in the um Yeah, I'm not well I can't remember the scores, I don't have them in front of me. But I know that uh if I'd parred the last hole uh a downhill uh power forward water on the left and behind the green, if I'd uh parted I would have finished tied for second with Tommy Jacobs. Uh Venturi had it uh all his own way, and of course the well the the big thing was whether whether Venturi was able to finish with his uh dehydration and exhaustion and having doctors to uh feed him salt tablets and that sort of thing. But um no, I was disappointed not to finish second there, uh bogey on the last hole. Then we go, yeah, to uh what's the name of the golf course there in Minneapolis? Hazel teen where Tony Hazel teen Hazel Teen is um the the golf course that would make a better cow pasture than um than a than a golf course, which uh we all had a bit of a laugh about that, but uh some of the officials took it seriously and and uh thought Dave Hill was uh really tearing the course apart. But um no, it it was uh I came from behind there. Tony led from the front uh all the way, and uh uh Dave Hill uh finished second. I don't know how many shots behind, and I shot 67, I think. It was probably one of the low rounds of the week to finish third. So um that uh that's uh fine memories there.

Mike Gonzalez 17:21

Yeah, Tony just kind of ran away and hid with from that one. Uh you had a lot of good uh finishes at the Open Championship. Of course, we talked about the win in 63 at Litham, but uh you know, throughout you had uh at least four top five finishes, I think, in the 60s, and a couple of top tens in the 70s. You finished fifth at Troon the year before you won.

Bob Charles 17:43

Yeah, that was a uh disappointment because uh Arnold and uh uh Kellenagel were running away with that, and uh everybody else was playing for third, and uh and I happened to be in third place there with five holes to go. Um I think it was five or four holes to go, um and finished with five, five, five, five, uh, including one of them being a par three. If I'd made a three on the seventeenth hole, the par three, I would have finished third, I believe, alone. But uh Brian Haggart and um oh, was it Phil Rogers? I think they uh they jumped in front of me and took out third place equal, uh so I must have finished fifth there, yes.

Mike Gonzalez 18:26

And then I think you both had a pretty good tournament in 1968 at Carnoostie. Bob, you're uh uh T2 uh with player winning that. You were two back, and Bruce, I think you were in the top ten as well that night.

Bruce Devlin 18:39

Yeah, that's that's my toughest golf course, I think, that I've ever played. Day in and day out. That Carnousty will beat you, won't it, Bob?

Bob Charles 18:48

Oh yeah, yeah, no, it's uh well what do they call it? Kanast Kanasty. Kanasty Yeah, that that that's its nickname. But uh yeah, no, I uh had a good week there. Um and um I don't know what the scoring was, but but Gary Gary it was playing in front of Jack and I. Was I playing with Jack in the last round? Um I seem to recall that that I was, and uh uh Gary won by uh two or three shots and uh uh I tied with Jack for second. So uh it was a good week and uh uh no. Um well Gary of course did the damage on the uh power five which uh he eagled uh in the final round and uh but the finish there is uh quite exceptional. It it's um um and of course um um Hogan who won there in nineteen fifty-three um his rounds got better and better. Each round was better, his final round was the best round of the tournament. Uh a lot of great history at at Carnusty and uh well uh well starting with Hogan.

Mike Gonzalez 20:12

Yeah. Yep, some good, some bad, with uh of course you've got to talk about uh Vandeveld's finish there too, where he could have made double bogey to win the golf tournament and uh kind of gave it away, didn't he?

Bob Charles 20:24

Well, I happened to play with him the first two rounds. Um I missed the cut that year, uh, but I saw every shot he hit the first two days. He's playing immaculate golf just from T to green, doing everything right, no, you know, shooting powers and birdies, no bad holes. And uh then I watched him play the the final 36 holes on television and I mean that's the that's the most I think it's the worst piece of bad luck that I've ever witnessed with his second shot on on the 70 second hole hitting that uh bleacher uh metal piece of bleacher and to come back uh down the fairway. It could have gone in any direction, but the direction it did go where where he uh well he had to eventually got it up and down for a seven. Am I am I right with that, I think, to uh to actually tie out of the bunker. But but I I've seen a bit of bad luck in my time, and that that that would have to be the worst piece of bad luck I ever saw.

Mike Gonzalez 21:25

Yeah, he might have been better off having that T shot uh uh carry him off the the bleacher and go into the water.

Bob Charles 21:31

Yes, correct. Yeah, came back over the water.

Mike Gonzalez 21:36

Yeah. Well, speaking of Car Nustie in 68, you then go back to Litham for the first time since your win, so this is nineteen sixty nine. You had a pretty good tournament in sixty nine as well.

Bob Charles 21:49

Yes, yes. Tony and I had uh uh head to head there playing the uh was it one round a day then, or was it two rounds on the final? Day. Uh that that I can don't recall either. But um we played together certainly in the final round. And uh fortunately uh for me Tony had done his time in the um uh getting his apprenti serving his apprenticeship in the in the back room of the pro shop, uh whipping golf clubs and uh because the whipping on my persimmon driver came unstuck on about thirteenth hole, I think it was. And uh I had to uh well I didn't know what to do, but um Tony uh put it all back together again, tied the knot, and uh and I was able to uh continue using the driver. Uh but uh Tony uh he he played great golf. He drove it well, and uh every every time he g got into trouble, a bunker uh bunker his bunker play mainly was immaculate. He got it up and down out of just about every bunker that I saw him in. And uh he uh he played great golf and and deserved the win. I I was just uh chasing him uh most of the day.

Mike Gonzalez 23:14

And that was a big deal, obviously, because I think it had been a while since an Englishman had won uh the Open Championship and uh and then uh of course that was a springboard for him to go on to Hazeltine that next year and win that uh U.S. Open crown. That's correct. Yes. So well uh just uh jump ahead of the PGA then and uh uh in the PGA you had nine starts. You made the cut every time you played the PGA championship. Uh probably the best finish, I guess, was to Julius Burroughs, uh Pecan Valley in uh in 1968.

Bob Charles 23:50

Yeah, that was um again back in Texas in the heat. Yeah. Um and and Long Rough from what I remember. The uh the Long Rough uh was was came quite up quite close to the edge of the greens. And uh I was playing with Julius Boris in the final final round. Arnold was uh playing in front of us. And um oh it must have been sixteen, I think, uh the sixteenth hole where uh Julius and I were tied. I'm not sure whether Arnold was playing in front of us, but um I happened to miss a green with a seven iron or a real relatively short iron anyway. I was only probably um thirty feet from the hole, and uh just ball was buried in long grass, thirty feet from the hole, and I was unable to get it up and down. Bogey there uh fell one shot behind, and uh Julius went on to uh power the last couple of holes and uh beat Arnold and I by a shot. So uh yeah, that was uh could have been, but uh it wasn't to be.

Mike Gonzalez 25:07

Well, let's uh if we can, let's jump ahead to 1986. Bob Charles turns 50, and uh it's a new deal back for you guys because there's a new emerging tour that uh you guys can now go back and make a little bit more money. Tell us about what you did to prepare your game to be ready for this uh sort of this second career on the senior tour.

Bob Charles 25:32

Well, I continued playing the European tour right up until um uh through 1985. In 1985, I played 20 tournaments uh well around the world, you might say. So uh I didn't there was as far as I was concerned, there was no great transition from um from regular gol regular tour golf to senior golf. Um so in that way I was well prepared. Uh most of my contemporaries, I suppose, had by the age of 45 they were slowing down, they weren't playing that many tournaments, and and uh I know Bruce, when did you uh uh before you came out and played a senior event? You you must have had a bit of a a time lapse there between uh regular tour and senior tour.

Bruce Devlin 26:19

Yes, I did, Bob. I I didn't play much for about six years before I went out on the senior tour, and uh and obviously uh that's that showed pretty much I was able to win once on the senior tour, but when I look at your records, two majors, twenty-five victories uh on the senior tour, you you were pretty dominant there for quite a while.

Bob Charles 26:41

Yes, well, um my first event was uh uh Palm Desert at the uh oh geez, I just forget the name of the name of the place. And and it was great. I I walked into the locker room and there was Harold Henning reading the newspaper, uh uh having breakfast, and uh uh to see a lot of these uh guys for the first time was uh was quite something. And of course we arrived there with our Tuxedo. Uh that was part of the part and parcel of the senior tour when in ninety when I went started out there. Two events where we used the tux, the uh legends of golf and and uh one of the other events. And so it was you know, it was invigorating, it was exhilarating, it was uh all those all those words to um wow, you know, here I'm I'm the young guy on the block and meeting up with all these old guys who uh I've played uh with and against in the past. Uh but the thing that uh uh was uh well didn't surprise me, but it took me 12 months before I won my first tournament. And that was uh 12 months on the same tournament where I started, which um uh uh in in Palm Desert. So that wasn't until 1987 that I won my my first event. And uh but now I was uh felt more competitive because I was from being one of the shortest uh in the tournament, uh I became uh amongst the uh what more of the longest ones. My 250-yard T-shots were uh well they were they were they were huge on the on the senior tour. I think there was only Don January and uh well George Bayer wasn't playing that much uh when when I joined. Well he was playing a little bit, but there was only uh a handful of guys that uh were longer than me. So uh uh that all all the the combination of all these things gave me um uh a lot of confidence and and uh uh on playing the senior tour and uh and I was uh felt very fortunate to um come in when uh the money started to get really good at the uh thanks to uh well s Sam Sneed uh um uh and of course Arnold Palmer the greats of the game. Uh Sneed was was virtually finishing his his senior career up Arnold who had been playing for a while. Peter Thompson, of course, the year well that was another thing. The year before I came out, 1985, Peter Thompson won nine tournaments, uh which I think is still a record on the senior tour, nine tournaments in a year. And I had played, well, uh naturally over the years I'd played a lot of golf with Peter Thompson, and I felt, wow, if he can win nine tournaments, uh, you know, I I know I can win a few tournaments. And so that gave me uh a lot of uh confidence uh knowing that, and um I think the best I won was five tournaments in in one year. But no, it was the icing on the cake as far as my career goes in in professional golf.

Bruce Devlin 30:00

So of your two major victories, first one came in uh 1989 at the Volvo Seniors British Open, where you beat Billy Casper by seven shots, Mr. Charles. That was quite a week for you.

Bob Charles 30:14

Uh yes. Uh again playing at Turnbury, uh course where I'd won the John Player Classic uh a number of years earlier, uh course I knew well. Uh felt very comfortable playing on Lynx Lynx Golf uh managed the weather reasonably well, but yeah, I was I think just about all my rounds were in the in the sixties and uh came out on top and um so no, uh a another good week. The um second senior open I won which was back at Royal Lithum. Eighty-three wasn't it? Yeah, the twenty years after ninety-three, th thirty that's right, thirty years after um I winning the Open. And uh I uh if you want to look in the record book my uh career performance in senior British Open Championships, uh I I I don't think in the first ten years that uh that I finished out of the top ten for that matter. I have quite a number of I got about five second second places there and but of course I was playing golf courses like Turnbury and Litherman St. Ans, which where I'd won previously and uh enjoyed playing. So uh yeah, I um I think I let uh one slip there at Turnbury. I felt like I had a bit of good chance of winning, and uh uh another South African beat me there and and then uh Ian Stanley. Yeah, he pipped me at uh Royal County down, I think. I finished second to him. I retired and had a playoff, sudden death playoff. I'm not very good at sudden death playoffs. I think uh my record is uh I won I won one a Swiss Open and I think I lost about three or four. But um uh no, the over my career I think Australians have been my nemeses. Is that right? Well, starting with Peter Thompson and Kill Nagel and that they were that's that's a couple of good ones. And then Bruce Devlin comes along, and uh and and then uh of course the Ian Stanley.

Mike Gonzalez 32:38

Well, quite a record on the senior tour with 25 wins, 80 wins overall around the world in your uh remarkable career, Bob. Tell us a little bit about uh the recognition that brought you the Sir title.

Bob Charles 32:53

Uh well uh yes, I'm fortunate being a New Zealander that uh we're still part of the British Commonwealth and and uh uh royal royal titles which are bestowed on on uh individuals who have uh uh have done what shall we say, uh exemplary or um uh uh performed well in whatever activity it is, uh whether it's in the military, whether it's in social services and that the um so they get these these honors. Uh it's an annual annual thing. Uh in fact might might be twice a year, Queen's birthday and uh and uh New Year's New Year's honors as well. So I know I'm very proud of uh my honors, uh first one being the uh OBE, the Order of the British Empire. Uh the the obviously you you don't uh nominate yourself. You you have uh individuals, people, organizations from your home country who put your name forward and uh so uh you know I've been in the headlines uh for for quite a number of years and uh so uh these uh awards are not not something which I ever set out to achieve, and I'm very you know, obviously very proud of them, and uh they uh to have them bestowed on me is uh well again, it's it's like my my whole career. I feel very lucky, very fortunate and and proud to um to have received these honors.

Bruce Devlin 34:33

So you should be, Bob. And uh you you still uh active in your uh Bob Chow scholarships and you authored a book called The Left Handers Golf Book, and you also have a video. Golf from the other side. Very appropriate name.

Bob Charles 34:51

Yeah, yeah. Uh that's right. Well, we don't we don't want to get onto that uh left-hand, right hand uh business. I think you got that in the first uh session, did you not? Because it because it always comes up and and uh people can't get their head around the fact that uh that I'm right-handed, I'm not left-handed at all. And uh it's funny, isn't it? It is. It's um and the more cricket I watch, the more tennis I watch, it um it makes you wonder um you know how many right-handed people are playing left-handed and how many left-handed people are playing right-handed. That's that's the way they should uh do a cunt. But um no, no, it's um I've I've flow uh flown the flag for left-handers for a number of years, and uh and then uh Mike Weir came along and uh won the Masters, and uh which which is great to uh see a fellow another lefty win, and then of course we've got the the great Phil Mickelson whose uh whose record is uh is gonna be unequaled by any other left-handers.

Mike Gonzalez 36:09

Well, you cited a couple of good lefties, but uh you were the first, as a matter of fact, the first inducted also into the World Golf Hall of Fame as a left-hander in 2008. Uh how did you find out about that honor, Bob? Do you remember?

Bob Charles 36:23

Oh um, not really. That's a bit bit hazy. Um uh yes, indeed. It's um quite an honor. Yeah, no, I'm I'm I'm kind can't help you out on that one. Obviously, it's uh another achievement which uh uh I unexpected uh out of the blue and uh I'm very proud of. And uh I was able to attend the uh ceremony uh with uh Verity, uh my wife and uh two children. Uh we they were um uh well no, hold on. I'm talking grandchildren. Uh no. No, no, no, yeah. I had two grandchildren there and uh I don't think my daughter was there. Uh anyway, it's uh by the by, but but uh I was happy to have uh you know part of the family there and uh uh witnessing the um inauguration. I'm uh proud of uh Tony Jacqueline actually, he um what is the word I'm looking for? He he um introduced me to the um uh at the cerem ceremony. So I'm very ever thankful to uh Tony Tony for that.

Bruce Devlin 37:50

So Bob, before we finish the telecast before we finish the podcast, not a telecast, we always we always ask our guests uh a couple of questions. Right?

Bob Charles 38:03

Well I'm pretty good at pretty good at answering questions.

Bruce Devlin 38:06

Okay, well answer this one then. If you knew what you know now when you were twenty years old, what would you have done differently?

Bob Charles 38:18

Uh I wouldn't have done anything differently. Uh nothing and and and uh uh I my career was um I I never set out to like Jack Nicholas had a he um uh his goal, he had goals. I never said goals. I just went out there for the love of the game and played the game for the love of it, and and come what may, um I took the good with the bad and uh I try and uh uh I know it's hard for some of these young people to understand, but uh I never had a a coach and uh I had two lessons which I think you picked up on uh in the earlier podcast uh from um Bob Toske and um Dave Ledbetter. Yeah. And I like to I'm proud of the fact that I did it my way and and um uh I didn't have anybody uh and I I just hate to see these uh television shots of guys on the range with guys standing all over them offering and uh y you what you wonder how many of how many tournaments did these these coaches win? I mean, why why are they coaching? Why didn't why didn't they have a career? Uh and and uh I mean we didn't have Bruce, we didn't have videos of our swings in those days. We just had net natural golf swings and uh uh I I think that um uh uh the these they go over the top. It's uh with uh uh and uh alright. I I did succumb to a few of the uh modern I I got into metal uh metal shafts and graphite shafts and uh I did start going to the gym uh and working on my body, getting getting uh my and trying to improve my fitness, but uh uh i it it it's uh I think that a lot of the uh young up and coming people go to extremes there and uh it's um uh well I wish them well and and hope that their coaches are are are an asset rather than a liability.

Mike Gonzalez 40:35

Mike So Bob, the other question is this we'll give you one career mulligan, where do you take it?

Bob Charles 40:42

A mulligan uh in golf? Yep. Uh uh where where do I take my mulligan? Oh geez, no, I'd have to have to think about that. Um geez, I I I don't feel like I needed mulligans. I I never I never used them. I never used them when I played in tournaments. So uh There you go. Perfect answer there, but I just like uh you know, starting out as you said, I like my career. Uh uh I wouldn't do anything different. Um I I feel very lucky and and um uh I just um uh hope that uh you know my family are proud of me. Uh I know and um uh I'll you know go to my grave with um the thought that uh yeah he he did it his way and uh uh enjoyed a lot of success along the way.

Bruce Devlin 41:38

Yeah, I tell you, Bob, uh uh I I hope you understand how much we appreciate you taking the time to uh tell us your story. You've joined a you've joined a lot of great players uh who've told their story, and we thank you for all your time and uh I'd like to send my best wishes to your darling wife Verity and uh look forward to seeing you guys in August.

Bob Charles 42:01

Well, thank you for this opportunity. It's a first. In fact, I've got another uh podcast this afternoon with uh Radio New Zealand at about 2.45. So this is good practice, isn't it? Uh doing podcasts. I've just done the two with you, I've uh and and I've got a third one coming up later this afternoon. So I've enjoyed visiting with you both, and uh it's been a pleasure, and uh and I hope you can make some sense out of what I had to say.

Mike Gonzalez 42:26

Uh thank you, Bob, and I'm gonna use the mulligan you passed on tomorrow. Thanks for joining us today. All right, enjoy the visit. Thank you for listening to another episode of For the Good of the Game. And please, wherever you listen to your podcast on Apple and Spotify, if you like what you hear, please subscribe, spread the word, and tell your friends.